I posted my situation a long time ago, but better recap since i changed my username:

I've been through the thick of an affair and back again. WH definately seemed out of the fog and on his way to R..amazing how easily they can deceive you.

So, the beginning...i first found out about my WH's "friend" last year (co-worker). I had just given birth to our second child and knew things weren't right. There were some weird instances in the weeks leading up to the birth..from what i gather, things were just starting up at that point. WH's "friend" even visited in the hospital--the nerve! Although i don't think things were started on her part at that point. I'm quite sure WH had a crush on her then. It's so hard to even re-write all of what happened, but i know i want to give background to get some advice.

Basically, day after i arrived home w/our son i could tell he was acting weird. So i point-blank asked him what was wrong and he said he just didn't feel the same w/me anymore. I immediately asked if he was seeing someone else, to which he replied "no". My detective work quickly made me realize that was a lie.

Several things occurred in the meantime (cell phone records where i seen they had talked) then the day before my b.day last Oct, (just a side note, she was married at the end of Aug) i found a note in his pocket from her. How can i ever forget these words "Do you look gorgeous in everything that you wear? I wanted to hug you so bad last night, it killed me"..it also said I "heart" you. The immediate response to this note was a lie "it's not for me" (lol)...followed w/the infamous "she's just a friend". He said to call her and ask her if i didnt believe him, which i did. She of course said the same thing, said this was stupid, innocent flirting. He said he wanted to talk to her and i could hear everything she said. She told him to "kill the note" and asked if i wanted to call her H and she said that could not happen. When he got off the phone, we of course talked (argued--after we literally wrestled over the note). He threatened if i called the H, he'd leave. Being not even a month since i had given birth, i was distraught and scared. I stupidly followed his wishes.

I continued to monitor the situation. Again, more lies. I "allowed" him to take a trip in late Nov (what kind of man leaves his 2 month old child) to see a guy friend of his from high school in Florida--another mistake. This allowed him to talk to her the entire time..something i didn't find out til after i called the H. Yep, had enough and called him about a week and a half before Xmas. We had went out to dinner and when i got home, i realized i forgot to pick up treats for my son's class. So out to the store i went and WH talked to a friend and in the conversation, told him that he "couldn't pull a fast one on me cause i knew he was in love with her". It took me about a week to get up the courage to call the H. Thing was, he knew something was up, but not to the extent it had gone. One night, him and his WW had dinner plans at his parents to write their wedding thank you notes (can you imagine?) and she was late. She lied and said she was out w/someone else..he eventually got out of her that she was w/my WH.

When my WH arrived home from work that evening, i told him i called her H. We had a talk in which i got nothing out of him. He went to work the next day and things were still up in the air for a few weeks. Then out of the blue, he comes home from work in Jan. and says "he's back"..comes in the door and gives me a big hug/kiss.

They continue to work together..i don't know how i've even gotten this far. Each day, they weren't supposed to be talking or anything. We had an awesome Valentines day, great anniversary in May (we took a vacation to Florida), my BIL's wedding in June (btw, i ran into her at a bar the night of my SIL's stagette..told her i deserved an apology, she claimed she'd already apologized and that things were over, it was a long time ago. SIL and friends cussed her out), lots of little trips and everything here and there..living life like everything is fine, well other than my occaisional meltdowns. He knew i wanted him to leave work and that i was having a hard time dealing w/him seeing her on a daily basis. That in addition to dealing w/school and juggling daily responsibilities was not easy. I'd get upset, sometimes he'd care, others he wouldn't. All in all, i thought everything was fine. We were moving on, so i stupidly thought.

We went to Vegas the last full week in August (family trip w/MIL, FIL, BIL and SIL). The week before, i get a phone call from WH saying he's at work (15 mins after he was scheduled to get out) and he'd be leaving shortly. 10 minutes later i get a call from OW's H...he followed them after work and was right there w/them..they met behind a building up the street from work. I flipped..what the hell is this?! He puts my WH on the phone and he gives me his usual line of BS (he's a good liar, have i mentioned that?). It was the first time i didn't break down and cry. I told him i hoped he was happy w/his decisions and i couldn't believe he was doing this to me again. He claimed over and over again that it was nothing. Here's his version: There had been a big meeting at work and they were talking layoffs and she knew some info. Back at work, he asked if they could talk about what she knew, she told him no, then when she was leaving she said fine. We had a huge discussion. I told him if he wanted her so bad, then go get her. I couldn't do this anymore, it's not fair, i would not compete etc. He swore up and down that the situation wasn't as bad as it looked. That he LOVED me and wanted to be w/me. I told him i wasn't sure what to do. At one point, he looked at me and said "i'm happy for you" and i said why and he said "cause i'm going to treat you the way you should be treated". I told him this would have to be it, no more talking to her, about ANYTHING. This was August 17th.

He was off of work that next day. I went w/him cause he played tennis w/a M friend of his. I walked the baby around while they played. He was so loving and seemingly genuine. We went to the beach afterward. Back to work Thurs and I called OW before she went to see her explanation of that day and she told me the same story. So who knows really? She said she doesn't want to be w/him, she'd like it if she never seen or talked to either of us again, etc. I was "nice", maybe too nice..maybe that's been my problem all along. Anytime we've ever talked, i've never been super nasty..would that have helped? I did call her out on the fact that i knew they kissed (way back in Oct i think) and she didn't know that i knew that. Her H doesn't know. She was clearly upset that i did.

WH used to always call me from work and when this stuff was going on, he stopped. Well that day he was all calling and stuff, saying hi, i love you, etc. After i get off the phone w/her, a few minutes pass and he calls. Says that i say he can't be honest well guess what? She just called him! He claims she said that they cannot talk anymore. He's sweet as pie to me on Thursday and Friday...being more loving than he's been in years. I ask how she's being toward him at work and he says nasty, that she was even calling him names as she walked by! I was so happy, i thought this was definitely going to be the end.

Then we went to Vegas. We got back and continued to have fun times. Over labor day weekend, we went to a romantic dinner, went golfing, etc. We talked of the future quite often--possibly moving out of state and making plans for our 10yr wedding anniversary next May (to be remarried on the beach). He was acting just a smidgen strange..but he's been upset about not being able to find another job and i just chalked it up to that. One thing i wasn't happy w/was the fact that the Monday he went back to work after our vacation, i asked him how she was toward him at work and he says she asked him "how was your vacation"..i started crying and was upset and he wondered why..i said cause they had talked. Any sort of talking is bad, i've said this to him over and over.

This past weekend--we had a wedding Saturday. He's photographs them on the side. He pulled me up to dance w/him twice--something he never does. Sunday was the baby's 1st b.day. We had a nice family day. Monday he gets home from work and we take the kids to the park..really nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Tuesday he had jury duty, i drove him down there. I get back home and decide to call the OW to tell her to back off. I have some inside contacts at work who say they see them talking. First time i've been nasty. I cursed her out, asking her why the last time we talked, she said she wouldn't talk to him and now she is again. Then she tells me she's getting another job. Also says my WH gave her a note yesterday..it said: "No way, I hate it (in reference to her leaving the job) I love you so much. I look forward to seeing you each (F word) day." WTF??? She again claims that she's leaving the job, trying to get out of the situation. I counter w/there wouldn't be a situation if you didn't allow it to happen (both of them). I end by telling her to back off.

I pick him up from jury duty and try to remain calm. Our oldest's b.day is the next day (Wed). We decide to take him out to eat to celebrate. When we get home, i let out what i know. Of course, he lies first ("that could be an old note!"), then says of course she is going to say stuff to me to make him look like he's the one pursuing things. I pretty much tell him we're done, then he decides to try and explain himself. Admits to the note and says that he was playing her cause he was afraid by my being so upset lately, things may not work out and he wanted to have a "friend" there in case it didnt. No, i'm not dumb enough to buy this crap..not anymore. I know that he just was cake eating and now that reality has set in, of course he doesn't want to lose me. He wanted us both. He has admitted he is wrong, that he's been lieing. He wants to work things out. I say things are going to just make an immediate change and he says yes it can happen..how??

My question is..what am i to do? Here i thought we were working toward R and he was starting things back up w/her. How can i trust him? On one hand, i think he should go and maybe that'll make him realize how bad he's messed up, but then i'm afraid he'll just actively pursue her and possibly me, and i'll have no idea. When i said that to him, he said "it's not like she's single"--like that's stopped him before?

Thing is, he's such an incredibly good liar that i hardly know the difference anymore. I dont want to continue to be stupid..can anything be salvaged here after so much trust has been broken? I know i can't handle them working together anymore, so my only hope is that she will be taking the other job soon. But there could always be communication going on behind my back that i wont even know about. If all of this hadn't just happened a month ago, i think things would be different.

A little marriage background..we're at just over 9yrs. I'm 28 (29 in Oct), he's 32 (33 in Jan), together for (unlucky number) 13 yrs. Two boys, age 10 and 1. When i was pg. w/our first at eight months, i found a note in his work bag that he wrote to a girl in Japan that he had met right when i got pg. Long story but he used to drive a van for a hotel and he said that if she had wanted to kiss him that day, he would have. This is the major reason for the age difference between our kids. I was petrified to get pg. for fear of something like this happening again (and lo-and-behold, it did).

Throughout our marriage though, things were fine. We had what i'd say was a good marriage. I was always bothered by his incessant flirting, but figured he "came home to me" and this was just his personality. He was never happy w/his jobs and would always say that his work life sucked, personal life was great. Before going to this job (3yrs ago) and upon leaving the last, i found some cards in the garbage. Both from the same girl, one said that he had a nice [censored], the other was a sappy card where she said that she'd never forget their friendship, the time they spend together, etc...who knows where that relationship would've went had he stayed at the job? He'll even say himself that he has low self-esteem. He told me he doesn't know why, but he needs to feel liked/loved by everyone and that is why he is the way that he is. When i bring up these past instances, he says he never cheated on me (before this) and those things were nothing. He also admits that he lies a lot, says that's how he always was growing up. He's very into looking at other women, another thing that's bothered me but i always figured it was ok cause he just looked and didnt touch (lol). He takes pics at concerts and when we got back from Vegas, he went to one and took some pics of a girl in the front row. I still haven't confronted him on this, but that bothers me too, especially after everything else.

When i re-read all of this, i'm sick. I can't believe all that i've been through and feel like after all of these years, i don't even really know him. All i wanted in life was for this to work out, but can it...is it ever going to be ok again? I have so much love for him even after all that he has put me through..why? I also want to point out, and in our situation it would matter cause he's very caught up in looks, that i haven't changed looks-wise in all our years except while pg. And both times, i got my figure back very quickly.

Thank you for reading, if you got this far. Sorry so long, but thought it was important to include just about anything i could think of in order for advisement.

Well this was a long one!! And it raises more questions than it answers.

Have you two ever had any counseling?

Do you think your marriage will recover without a recovery plan?

What extra-ordinary precautions are in place to help your husband remain faithful?

What kind of accountability does he have?

Why is he still working in the same place?

How good do you think you are at defending your boundaries? And what do you think your husband has learned about how you will react to his affairs?

I haven't read any of the plans and I'm no expert on A's but it seems to me that one of them has to IMMEDIATELY leave their job. He has to commit to NO CONTACT. There's no other way, is there???

C

Welcome back to marriagebuilders. I suspect that all of the stories your husband is telling you are lies - especially the one about meeting behind the building to discuss work. I will give him credit - he is very quick on his feet.

So the problem you have is that he is addicted to this woman. As long as they have any contact at all, it will continue.

I have been going through this for 20 months - 1000's of lies and denials. My WH has been living with the OW for over a year, and still will not admit it. What happened to me is I lost any feelings at all for him.

The only thing I can see for you to do is insist that he get another job NOW. Then ask him to write a no contact letter to her. Also inform her husband that the affair is still continuing.

If your husband refuses the above, start getting ready for Plan B. He will need to be out of the house until he shows that he has no contact with her.

If you continue to let this drag on and on, you may lose all of your love for him. That is the real threat to your marriage.

Yes, c-dub, i agree.

Starfish and Believer..i've seen some of your replies and you have invaluable knowledge and insight. Thank you for taking the time to read my story and give me some of that...i greatly appreciate it!

Starfish, to answer your questions:

Have you two ever had any counseling? We haven't. When this all came about, that was the first thing i wanted to do, but he didnt want to. Then these last few times of getting "busted", that's the first words out of his mouth. While i think it would help us, he just has so many issues that i almost think IC for him is the place to begin.

Do you think your marriage will recover without a recovery plan? I'm not sure. I'm not sure if it can even recover w/a plan..there is so much that i have to let go of and i haven't been able to yet. This last setback only makes it worse.

What extra-ordinary precautions are in place to help your husband remain faithful? Nothing. Have been relying upon his word..which, as you see, hasn't gotten me anywhere.

What kind of accountability does he have? This and last month is really the first time he's been overly remorseful and especially this time, he knows he's completely screwed everything up.

Why is he still working in the same place? Ugh... he did send out a lot of resumes for quite a while, only ended up w/1 interview and that's been it. I've been on him for months to get something new, he'd always pull that he feels like a failure getting rejection notes all the time and also would say that everything in the paper requires a degree (he only has a couple semesters at best).

How good do you think you are at defending your boundaries? And what do you think your husband has learned about how you will react to his affairs? Well this is the first time that i feel i need to make a huge decision/change. And it's all because he told me last month what he is telling me now (that he wants me, he's "chooses me")..well how can i believe him? I feel like it's like discipling a child..if you tell them you're going to do something, then don't follow through, they're just going to continue misbehaving.

Believer--When i called OW just on Tues to tell her to back off, she did inform me of the new job. When i spoke to her H, he said she was due to start Nov 1st...that she had the option of Oct 1st, but opted for the latter--i found that strange. With all that has happened, she is supposedly now leaving as of this coming Thurs and beginning the new job Oct 1. Her H told me where she's going to be working and guess what? I recall finding the name of the place written down on a piece of paper in his pocket..i don't remember how long ago that was though...another thing that bothers me. Anyway, OW played the blame on my WH to her H. They hashed everything out and ultimately are going to continue to work on their M.

My problem is that even though they won't be seeing each other at work daily, how can i be certain there is NC? How do i trust that he's suddenly telling the truth after all this recent deceit? I know, i have to decide what i want, but it's just so hard. He has so many other issues and i just can't trust him at all. I'm tired of worrying when he goes to work..and even once she's gone, anytime he goes out and does anything, i'll be a wreck. It's just so unfair! And again, back to the child-discipline thing..i just feel if i say "ok, lets work on this" that i'll be fooled again--you are so right when you say "quick on his toes"...describes him to a T. I still have love for him but like you said, i don't know what will happen if something else occurs. The wound from a month ago was still fresh and now this..i've just been thrown for a loop!

Thanks for reading!

Also want to add, how do i get through this week, M-Th, of them seeing each other? Is this a good time to have him leave..it could give them the chance to be together. But then again, i was all over the situation and something was still starting up again..ugh, can't win!

bump

So yesterday work supposedly went good. WH says they didn't talk at all, just exchanged some evil eyes. He was all happy that the day went great..i was like big deal, one day. WH says things are going to be different (same line as last month).. i agree that they can be, since they won't be seeing each other daily, but who's to say there will be continued NC? I know he knows where she'll be working, she obviously knows where he is..will the nightmare really EVER end?

He's been trying to make the moves on me over the past few days, but i haven't gave in. I'm not comfortable doing that right now cause i think it'll send him the message that everything is ok when clearly, it is not. Today he says he won't make any more moves on me cause he could see the disgust in my eyes when he was doing so yesterday. I explained why i wasn't comfortable doing that, he understands. But now i see this as a possible huge barrier and that if i'm "not giving it to him", won't it push him in the direction of trying to hook up w/her again? Although even when everything seemed fine, he was pursuing..so what's the difference??

dee,

Your marriage MAY not recover with a recovery plan....but it will definitely NOT recover without one. Let me answer my own questions for a second and give you some ideas about how to proceed.

Have you two ever had any counseling? Why not? No matter what you're spending money on, there is nothing as important as your marriage. If you two could do this alone, you'd have made more progress. A good MC is a must for you two.

What extra-ordinary precautions are in place to help your husband remain faithful?

Without precautions in place, your husband has already proven that he is fogged and unlikely to protect your marriage. That's what accountability is all about.

Why is he still working in the same place?

"Bringing it up" is not the same thing as letting him know that changing jobs is one of the conditions for continuing to stay with him. I understand that NOW the OW is leaving, but she could have left on Oct...and waited....that's not strange...is typical and likely that contact between the two of them will continue. I don't think your husband has been or will be honest until contact ends.

How good do you think you are at defending your boundaries? And what do you think your husband has learned about how you will react to his affairs?

You sure didn't mean to, but you have taught your husband that he can remain in the same job where he is in contact with his affair parner, and keep lying about his actions....and that you will just stay and complain. This started last year, and you're still there chere.

My husband did this stuff when I was pregnant too and it makes you really vulnerable and tied down....so I DO understand how this has gone on so long....but it's time to take a stand with love. I'm not talking about ultimatims here....but honest boundaries that state the conditions required to remain in the marriage. If he is unable to meet them....I would like you to consider Plan B until such time as he can wake up and reinvest in this marriage. This has gone on far too long.

hugs!