I just wanted to add that my OW tried to break it off several times with me too. I wasn't the strong one--I came up with many reasons why we should keep our A going. She was more of a realist, and reminded me that everyone around us would be very hurt if they knew our "secret". She was sick of keeping secrets and living "a double life", from the beginning (a month into our relationship). But she always came back to me. Each time she came back, a little bit of our foundation was hurt though. There was a bit of lack of trust on my end. I feared the other shoe dropping-that she'd try to end it again. I started being insecure and needing her more and she pulled away more, yet still tried to satisfy me. We had MANY ups and downs because of all this.

An A isn't always all rosy and movie-like. It has its real moment too.

CC

Wow!!!

This whole thread has been very helpful to me.

I am right there with Stanley. Questions for me are mostly related to "when you said this, what events were happening"

Today i am still wondering about why things might be different, etc. I know that two specific things about our sex life are different and i don't like either of them. But these are the types of questions that i want answered. I don't want to know the details of the sex that the two of them shared, I would rather know about the details of why things between us are different. What is it about our Relationship that has changed because of the A? Does she feel differently about me? Does she still think about OM?

WW's don't understand how badly the BH needs reassurance. Too many triggers and not enough communication drive a serious wedge into the recovery effort.

God Bless and good luck

I am one who wanted the intimate details and I still do. My W’s A was only 2 nights on a cruise, but then she hid it from me for 7 years. I want to know every last detail because it gives me a level of comfort to know that if she is willing to spill every detail, then maybe, just maybe, I am getting the “honest and open” communication we did not have for those 7 years. I’m not sure if this makes any sense or not…

I want to know what the OM did and how my W felt about it at the time and later (i.e. – did she remember it fondly or cry about it when she remembered). I want to know why the OM was better sexually (or not better) so I can get inside my W’s head and understand what drives her. Mainly, I want to know how it all fit together. For me, there is no issue of a timeline to construct expect at the detailed level. For instance, she chose to go back with him a second night. When did she meet him and how did she excuse herself from her mom and mom’s friend (who were on the cruise with her)? Did she think about how long she was gone and whether she might be found out by those with her?

I guess I just need to piece together every single piece of the puzzle because that is how my mind works. I have to convince myself that I know every last detail and can still forgive her and create a new marriage together. I believe that if I feel pieces are missing that I will always have doubts as to what I am choosing to forgive. I’m sure others’ minds may not work the same as mine, but there are some of us out here that need FULL disclosure.

Todd

Following up on a point that Stanley made...let's not forget that there are points to this that directly affect the BS.

it's a hell of a hard question to have ask, for instance, but one of the things I needed to know from my wife - for my own sake - was whether she and the OM used a condom. That seems stupid. But..it's a HUGE issue in my mind, especially since, as has been pointed out, many OMs are serial OMs. It's what they do.

The sex question gets a bit dicier. Do I really want to know all of the details? No. Belive me...I could live without them. Having said that, I think that when there is an unknown, things can get blown out of proportion.

I'm just the opposite of Stanley in my thinking: despite the fact that I too have seen the OM and can't imagine anyone finding anything remotely attractive about him...I assumed he was a stud and that my wife had the greatest experience of her life. I saw him as a cross between Don Juan and Ricky Riccardo, in terms of his love-making prowess.

Finding out a few of the details at least helped deflate that perception a bit...and it left me more time to dwell on other, more significant issues.

Just some more words from this WW...

My H didn't and still doesn't want to know details. Maybe it's because my A was with a woman? I don't know. He HAS made some snyde remarks about my OW, such as, "You have such good looking friends. Why did you choose her? It doesn't make sense!". He said that b/c my OW was not stereotypically what I'd be attracted to--she was about 300 lbs and certainly didn't exude sex appeal. He couldn't figure it out. Honestly, at times I couldn't either, but I fell in love with her spirit and her whole essence--not only the way she looked, AND I WAS attracted to her--big time! It's more in the way you carry yourself than anything and I brought that out in her.

Anyway, my H hasn't asked for details, and hasn't even tried to piece together dates, etc. He pretty much knows it all, since my OW and I lived in different countries and saw each other 9 times (9 weeks) in the past 2.5 years. I'd be willing to answer any questions he might have though.

I hope that this thread is helping you spouses of WW's. Hope it's not too hurtful!

CC

Andrew:

Don't worry about the sex quality.

In affairs the quality of sex has nothing to do with acrobatics or technique. Well the latter may be important in older relationships, however in brand new affairs technique is less important. The sex is great because the OM is a new sports car and the WW has been using a 30-year-old sedan up to that point. The greatness of the sex is all in the head--- between the ears. My wife said the sex was great and that OM was pretty good. However a former OW said the OM was a disaster in bed.

I suspect all OMs are great in bed when the relationship is brand new. However, they were probably lousy in bed when they were married. That is your typical OM and that is why they always tell the prospective WW how bad sex is at home. It is probably bad because they are not that great.

I admire faithful men who can still fully satisfy his wife 20-30 years later. To me that has more credibility about one’s ability in bed than an OM who can do it in the heat of passion within the context of an affair.

I know for a fact that if the OM and I went to line up and 100 women had to choose between us I would win 99% of the time. So if the wife thinks OM was great is because the H is the old car she has driven for a long time and the OM is a brand new sports car. But, as I said, it is all between the ears.

Stanley,

I think you make a good point. A lot of the allure is the newness. I talked to my wife about this, and I think she knows it to be true: there would come a time down the road when the passion for the OM would wear off - simply because the relationship wouldn't be new anymore...and the things would settle down. And then what would she be left with? It was a tryst: there was no lasting or solid base there.

This leads me to one other point about knowing the details: as I said earlier, I'm primarily interested in the details that impact me directly - like whether they used protection. But..I'm also interested in details that allow me to gauge character.

I mean...I think I know my wife. And her story - that he instigated it - seems to ring true to me. It's consisten with what I know about her character...and it makes me feel a bit hopeful that this was, indeed, a one-time thing.

Andrew:

My wife cheated on me after we were married for 30 years. At that time we were still having sex twice a week. I was home every day, I cared for her. We went out to dinner, the theater, concerts, ect. Sure, the relationship had a certain routine to it and there were no bells and whistles at all times, but it was a relationship well above average. I would say an 8/10 easily. However, at times my wife wanted the sensations of romantic enchantment one can only feel in a new relationship. Then the OM came along--- an old childhood friend who is not as good looking as I am. Trust me, I am not a vain guy, but it is the truth. My wife will be the 1st one to admit OM was not Hollywood material. However, for some reason she fell in love with OM.

So to answer your question----- you can never be sure. There are things about my wife that I never knew. She kept her poker cards close to her chest for 30 years. So now I feel I don’t really know her. And the hardest thing is the lack of trust. I really don’t know what is in her head. She could get in on with the OM again if she really wanted and I still would not know. When there is a will, there is a way. In fact she secretly met with the OM after D-day to talk. There was no sex, however, they could have gone back to their motel and I would have never known about it. SCARY STUFF!!

Wife decided to come "clean" again and admit all the devious ways she had found in the last six weeks to keep EA alive. Asked me if there was anyting else I wanted to know. I asked for the truth about the sex...BIG MISTAKE!!! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> ..."It was great. We did it in the kitchen, in the living room and of course in our bedroom." I feel like there is nothing sacred left in our house. Wish we could move now. Irony of ironies though, the pain on my face seems to have woken her up. She is genuinely worried that I won't come home one of these days. Says she closed her private Yahoo email account yesterday. Good thing the OM isn't local, I'd be in jail today.

ZOOMIE--- <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> THAt happened to my husband too!! He wanted details, and I gave him the sex details, and he was in shocked!! He wished I had given him other kinds of details. But I did not do it in my house, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
I am sorry you are going thru this. I know it is very hard for men to take. I see in my husband's face too. I think men take it harder than women! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
That is good, your wife realized your pain, and is doing everything she can to make the marriage better now!
Good luck!

MYRTA

I haven't got a lot to add. I'm sort of lurking on my own thread and I'm very pleased that it's helping people.

Jen

Now I feel grateful that my H didn't ask about the sexual details! My OW and I did it in my house and her house, in MANY rooms in both houses. I never thought about how that would hurt him to hear THOSE details. I don't know what he'd ask if he ever starts asking questions. So, to those WW's whose H's asked, what should I say if my H asks me for details?? Thanks!

CC

Zoomie,

It may help you to get rid of the bed and perhaps everything in the bedroom. It is symbolic in someways but it is important in others. Something to consider.

God Bless,

JL

I know what you are saying about the furniture and my car which he drove extensively while I was gone he was visiting. Stink of it is everything, including the house is new within the last 15 mos. Luckily I'm renting the house. Right the issue is bigger for my wife who is home all day and sees everything. If it keeps the memories coming back I guess it's all got to go <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

^Bump^

What an interesting thread !
My my FWWs case, they only met for sex either twice ( says OM) or 'less than six times' ( says FWW) but it still hurts.

From OM GF and from FWW I have a picture of the sex :
FWW says she expected to feel guilty after the first time but all she felt was overwhelming love for OM

She said to me ( in fog, trying to be hurtful) 'its not the size , its what you do with it'. ( if I tell you my Rugby nickname was 'donk' ahem, you may see what she was getting at)

OM GF told me OM is no stud muffin, and that He told OM GF that while it was emotional sex, it was fast and limp owing to nerves. I take this bit with a pinch of salt though, he might be lying to his GF to make her feel better.

Since dropping out of fog, FWW has been VERY needful of my SF, and has made several references to my 'attributes'. She has very actively enjoyed SF with me since too. Maybe she's seen the grass isn't greener . I dunno. I haven't been with anyone else so I have no comparison to make.

I read from all this that sex with OM was emotionally fantastic but he isn't a 'big feller' with great mechanical technique.
To be honest, I'm not sure its important to me, the bump n grind details. Dates would be interesting so I can see if I was babysitting while she screwed him ( and me?).

But while he banged in a by-the-hour motel while giving and receiving lies a few times, I've made love with her maybe a thousand times in every way: in a tree house in the Kenyan jungle,overlooking a wild water hole; on a cuise boat on the river Nile as the sun set, in a walnut grove in rural Greece; in our marriage bed, made love excitedly and deliberately knowing we were making our babies, in front of a roaring fire as we were snowed in one winter....

I could go on. The details of their tawdry humping cannot come CLOSE to the magnificent lovemaking we have shared in the past, and hopefully will again.

So I'm not sure I need to know.

Great thread though.

Bob

Your story and mine are similar--- I won't say more.