thanks for your post in the other topic. this is very hard for me.

i guess the question i have is can i wave a magic wand and make it all go away now?? wake up as if it was all just a bad dream?

ok, that is not a truely serious question, but this one is, is there a difference between a SA and a person who just went a bit bonkers for a while and the way she choose deal with the stress/depression is seeking sex with other men.

i have been told by two Cs (the first one was a MC we went to a while ago and then the IC i am seeing now) that they believed i was very depressed and that some people have an affair as a way to deal with depression and that is what my A was about. well, it is only the second IC that i have finally confided in regarding the fact that although there was a main OM, he was not the only one i had sex with, in total i believe it was 7 people. i saw the main OM thru out the entire 2 1/2 years. we were very straight with each other, this was a physical only thing, i was fond of him but not in love with him, i did feel we were friends on some level, all be it a very destructive and unhealthy thing. i had a cyber habit that dated a good year before this person, i can recall days when i would do nothing but cyber on line all day, as soon as i was done chatting with one, i would start looking for another, as time went on, nothing was ever enough. i had favorite people i liked to talk to and with whom i would talk to about other stuff too, i even had one i played backgammon a lot with, but it would almost always lead to cyber too. i hated myself afterwards most of the time (to be honest, i did not hate myself after cyber with my more favorite people the majority of the time)

when it moved to real life, same thing, although the main OM was my favorite as i felt safe with him, i found myself drawn for more. those experiences were very bad, left me feeling terrible. with the main OM is was a major roller coaster, sometimes good, sometimes horrible, and we said goodbye so many times just to see each other again and he would laugh at me if i told him i was sad whenever we would say goodbye but then other times he would say how glad he was to have known me, that i have made him a better person. and he would tell me i was great in bed, and he would say if he were my husband and he found out he would take the kids and never look back.

but whenever he would tell me he wanted to hook up, i would go.

sometimes we would act like friends, dinner a few times, started exercising togetehr for a short time, i went with him to buy a hampster cuz he kept hearing about my son's hampster. he made me many CDs of music he knew i liked and sometimes of music he just thought i might like. we would chat all day about just normal stuff and play pool online. watch movies, watched a 9/11 documentary together, very intense documentary.

as time went on and as my husband dug in and tried to turn me around (i was pushing for a divorce), i started to feel worse and worse about my actions and yet i still continued. at times i would tell myself as i was driving over there, "see you are terrible and nothing can change there, there is no hope no matter what H thinks and how much he tries now, it's too late, here is more proof for you". i damanged myself beyond repair, lost all self-respect, to myself, towards my body.

so, am a i SA or a person that got screwed up for a while? i suppose you will come back and say there is no way for you to determine that, which only makes sense. so, what do i do? keep working with my IC and just see how that goes?

i realize i can look at the stuff you posted to ironman to educate myself more. i guess i just don't want to be a SA, i don't want to make things more complicated than they already are. i would like to think i was just very screwed up for a while but i am on a better track now and i am going to be just fine. but sometimes i still want to act out the same way, even though it has caused me (and my H) so much pain. and that scares me.

any thoughts you have would be appreciated.

FL- I'm hijacking your thread to just send you a BIG ((((((HUGS))))))))). I think you are a really good person, Karen- your intelligence- and essential goodness shines through in all of your posts.

thanks sadfww

and have fun tonight, i read your other post <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ya know... i say thanks to you, but in my head to myself i say, "yeah right, if i'm so great how did i manage to screw up so bad and do so many terrible things" guess i should really stop saying that stuff to myself, but it is really hard, i do it so automatically.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FinallyLearning:
<strong> ya know... i say thanks to you, but in my head to myself i say, "yeah right, if i'm so great how did i manage to screw up so bad and do so many terrible things" guess i should really stop saying that stuff to myself, but it is really hard, i do it so automatically. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do stop saying it..or at least try to! I know it can be hard. There are several threads on self-forgiveness here, so I won't repeat. Well..having a big mouth, I can't resist just one bit of repetition:

You are not defined by your past mistakes. What is important is your response to them: your willingness to grow, change, & to repair what you might have damaged or broken. We all evolve throughout our lives- and the person that we are today is based on our actions- including ESPECIALLY our mistakes- of yesterday. Growing UP I believe means to grow spiritually towards God- and we can do that through the process we go through when coming to terms- and dealing with- our failings.

Karen- bless you. I can tell you are someone I would like in real life <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I hope someday that you are able to like yourself as well.

Finally Learning: {b]this is very hard for me.{/n]

I know it is. And I think you're pretty brave to put yourself out there. A lot more so than the people who would judge or point fingers.

i guess the question i have is can i wave a magic wand and make it all go away now?? wake up as if it was all just a bad dream?

<sigh> Wouldn't that be wonderful? Ok, so you have to understand that I'm a new agey witch sort -- but I think that people who come into this world and have terrible struggles in their lives have the most capacity to become the greatest heroes. As you go through this process of healing, if you do the hard work that is presented to you on your journey, you will come away with a level of compassion and understanding that people who have not experienced what you have can never hope to achieve. Sure, you did some things that were harmful, to yourself and to others. But that's not nearly the end of the story. The chapters that tell what you do with what you learned will determine the ending. And you have the power to make that choice each and every day, one day at a time.

ok, that is not a truely serious question, but this one is, is there a difference between a SA and a person who just went a bit bonkers for a while and the way she choose deal with the stress/depression is seeking sex with other men.

I'm sure there is. But, right now, today, does it really matter? The things you need to do to protect yourself and others still remain pretty much the same.

i have been told by two Cs (the first one was a MC we went to a while ago and then the IC i am seeing now) that they believed i was very depressed and that some people have an affair as a way to deal with depression and that is what my A was about.

All of that is true. But as I said on Ironman's thread the therapy community and the addiction communities DO NOT INTERMINGLE. That's true for even the old standby's of alcoholism and drug addiction - but it's even more so for sexual addiciton. I attended a training with one of the best known names in the marriage community (not Bill Harley) who did some role playing for the group. The man who volunteered talked about how his wife had left him due to his years of compulsively seeking out prostitutes and strippers and the woman leading the training completely blew by that. She suggested that he needed to "be more adventurous" in order to entice his wife back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> The man sitting behind me in the training ran 12 step groups for SA's - he and I both spoke up immediately. The woman doing the training was completely taken aback at the idea of a sexual addiction. And remember - this is one of the best known authors and speakers on marriage today.


well, it is only the second IC that i have finally confided in regarding the fact that although there was a main OM, he was not the only one i had sex with, in total i believe it was 7 people.


And what did this IC have to say?

Someone I know fairly well personally told a counselor he would get drunk in order to prostitutes and the counselor's advice was simply - "you shouldn't be doing that."

i had a cyber habit that dated a good year before this person, i can recall days when i would do nothing but cyber on line all day, as soon as i was done chatting with one, i would start looking for another, as time went on, nothing was ever enough.

Yeah.... see those are the behaviors that concern me. The obessive looking for more and it never being enough.

at times i would tell myself as i was driving over there, "see you are terrible and nothing can change there, there is no hope no matter what H thinks and how much he tries now, it's too late, here is more proof for you". i damanged myself beyond repair, lost all self-respect, to myself, towards my body.

You know, I know the info I posted is scary to begin to look at. But there's something very healing about hearing other people's stories, knowing you are not alone, and knowing that recovery is possible. No matter what you call it - addiction or poor choices because of where you were at that time in your life - a support group of people who have been there and can guide you is invaluable.

so, am a i SA or a person that got screwed up for a while? i suppose you will come back and say there is no way for you to determine that, which only makes sense. so, what do i do? keep working with my IC and just see how that goes?

I'm a coach - I don't do healthcare and I can't diagnose - so I can't tell you. There's a self assesment test at Carnes' site www.sexhelp.com that's probably the best tool for you right now. But if I were you, I would find a therapist who has been trained by Carnes - and I would be more than happy to help you do that if you like - I would get into a 12 step group, women only - and I'd see where that took me. An IC is not equipped to deal with this with the level of skill and experience you need and deserve. I have issues with therapists who don't refer. If you were my client I'd be pushing hard for you to be seeing a specialist and then if you wanted to stay with me coordinating efforts. Your IC should be doing that for you.

i realize i can look at the stuff you posted to ironman to educate myself more. i guess i just don't want to be a SA, i don't want to make things more complicated than they already are.

Hummmmm...... now how would that make things more complicated? There's quite a bit of really good help available. And really, no one is going to brand you with a big red SA on your forehead. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> It's an illness, recovery is one day at a time, it's hard work, it's also very rewarding.


i would like to think i was just very screwed up for a while but i am on a better track now and i am going to be just fine. but sometimes i still want to act out the same way, even though it has caused me (and my H) so much pain. and that scares me.

I know. I hate labels. I'd like to see health and wellness care move away from labels and simply look at the presenting and underlying symptoms and then treat those. For as long as needed.

I do want to make sure to tell you that you can, and very likely will be just fine. Being an addictg of any sort does not condemn you to a less than fulfilling life. In my twenties and thirties I seemed to be surrounded by a whole bunch of people who were addicted to a variety of things. Friends I went to school with, family members, family members of friends..... I saw so many of them get into 12 step groups and occassionally more intensive treatment and emerge from the experience better than they ever imagined possible. As much as I'm not a fan of therapy I am a huge proponent of 12 step recovery groups. I think they are an amazing and underrated phenomenon.

C

Cerri,

i wanted to thank you for your time and post. I did read it this morning but i think it will take a few days before i can comment much more on some of it.

i did try to take the online test you referred to, I'm not sure how to answer the questions. for instance: "I spend more than 5 hours per week using my computer for sexual pursuits." the answer would of been a very strong yes before, but not now. how do i answer that question? A lot of the other questions are worded more to say have you ever done something. like: "I have participated in sexually related chats." worded like that I would have to say yes, i have. as opposed to if the question would of said: "I participate in sexually related chats." then i would be more unsure as to how to answer it. If the above question would have been written like "I have spent more than 5 hrs..." again, i would have to answer yes. Do you think they are purposely making some questions past and some present tense in order to take into account a person actively addicted vrs a person that is currently succeeding in not acting out?

Similarly, the question: "No one knows I use my computer for sexual purposes." true or false? well, that was pretty much true before, all though my sister has known everything pretty much from the start. there were a few others that know i met the OM on the internet but not about anything else. my IC now knows (and anyone reading my posts here knows, but i don't think that really counts for anything).

then there is "I repeatedly attempt to stop certain sexual behaviors and fail." and "I have continued my sexual behavior despite it having caused me problems." well, i did attempt to stop and i did fail many times but right now i am not failing and right now i am not continuing.

i don't mean to be overly analizing the questions, but i also don't want to end up with a score that is not appropriate to me.

i would be interested in hearing your thoughts on this.

regarding: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And what did this IC have to say? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">well, this is kinda new news to her still. i first told her 2 sessions ago, but i was not sure she understood completely. she knew the OM was someone i met online, but she didn't understand how many others i had met as well because as i was telling her i was also telling her about how one of the guys is actually my H's friend, she zoomed in on that more and i think she didn't really understand about how there were other guys from the internet. so last session i asked her and then elaborated so i was sure she understood the entire picture. i guess the point is, she has not really had much time to say anything about it yet. she was gentle and kind in order to allow me to get it all out.

the reason i hesitiate to just jump on the concept that i am a SA and find a 12step program, etc, etc is that i don't want to make this into a bigger problem than it is. my H is not aware of everything. he knows the OM was from the internet and he also knew i was cybering prior to that (regarding the cybering, he didn't really understand how addicting it was for me, he just said, don't do that anymore and it was never mentioned again..) as for non-online stuff, he believes it was just the one person. (90% of non-online straying, if not more, was with the one OM, but not 100%)

on the other side... i am terrified of not dealing with this properly and sliding back into that behavior sometime in the future. I don't want to hurt myself like that anymore and i really don't want to hurt my husband due to that kind of behavior, that is just NOT an option anymore!!!

i guess i commented on this stuff more than i thought i would... thanks again for your time.

FYI: once i leave work today, i won't be back online till monday night or tuesday morning.