Back from our family vacation in the Bahamas. It was beautiful!! Have TONS to do now that we're home though. We had a very nice, relaxing time. My H and I had some time with another couple--we went out to dinner a few times. We connected, but it certainly didn't erase the past few months (or years). We MAY go away to Vegas alone in January though. We already made tentative plans to go, so that's good news.

Myrta, are you still here? I haven't had time to read through posts yet, but I was wondering how you were doing. I'll check back when I can! Take care everyone!

CC

CC- HI! I'm glad you had a good time with your husband in Bahamas. Sounds like fun!!
How are things with you and him? Is he more curious about your A? Or he is still the same not wanting to know!
Things are so,so, with my husband and I. They could be better, they could be worst! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I would love for things to speed up and get better , if they are going to get better!!
I imagine all the work you have to do when you got back home. Everytime we go on vacation,its a nightmare when we get back, so much laundry and errands to do.
Take care!\
Myrta

Myrta,

My H is the same--not wanting to know anything more. He just wants to move on and have me move on, but I'm not there yet, and I believe that until it's talked out we can't really move on. Besides that, I got an email from an internet friend who spoke to someone who my ex-gf speaks to (she apparently made a new friend--not anything sexual though!!). Anyway, seems that she (my ex) is saying horrid things about me! She mentioned to this person that I gave information about HER and her family to other people! She said that I revealed her name, her husband's name, her childrens' names, etc., and that I even released a picture of her to many people. This is ALL untrue, of course, so I'm back to being upset. This is crazy--once I'm feeling a little better, something knocks me off my feet. I kinda wish I didn't know this information, but at the same time if my ex thinks it's true, it could explain why she hates me so much now! I really don't like all of the miscommunication and non-closure. It's all so stupid!

Anyway, I'm trying to deal with that and move on. I wish that things could have been tied up more nicely, but after reading things here, it's not the way that affairs usually end! In my mind though, I wanted closure and I wanted things to end more civilly, if that's possible!

As far as our vacation... My H was absolutely relaxed! It was wonderful to see!! Our biggest decision was to go to the beach or the pool every day! He even bought me a necklace on the beach--thoughtful! I bought him a few shirts. We got along and it was nice.

I have to say though, that AS SOON as we got home, he was all tense again. I'm sure it's due to his work schedule and tensions of making up for lost time while away, but it makes me want to back off from him, which was a BIG reason that led me into the A to begin with! I'm trying to change patterns and react differently!

Glad you're still around. I was hoping you didn't leave for good! Hope you and Stanley are making more progress. Keep on posting and you'll do fine, I'm sure!! I'll read your posts and others as soon as I can. Thanks for responding! Take care!

CC

CC,

When was your DD? If I'm not confusing you with another poster, I thought that your A ended well over a year ago. I'm not an expert, but this sounds like an issue that reaches far beyond just the "fog" of an affair.

Has it occured to you that your husband was less tense because he was able to have you to himself during your vacation? Has it occured to your that his tension and your contact with your OW today may not be coincidental?

And while I think that you have a valid point in saying that it's YOU that needs to change the way you react to his tension, somehow I don't hear the conviction of any actions behind your words. His tension is a darn good excuse for you. I don't know anybody in the working world who doesn't experience tension. If all women used your excuse, nobody in the workingworld could stay married.

CC, do you really WANT to be married to this man? Or is this just the easiest place for you to be right now?

CC....Dont do anything with this information you just found out. Forget about it!! It might not be true!! You have to forget this woman for good. Who cares what she said or didnot say?? I know it hurts you, but for your own good, you have to try harder not to care. If she is angry, and you know you did nothing wrong,thats all that should matter. If you did nothing to harm the OW reputation, then who cares what anyone says!!
Try to stay close to your husband, even if he is busy. If you already know why you fell into the affair, then tell him, and tell yourself, that you dont want to repeat the same mistake. I know it is extremely hard to move on, but you must!
My husband and I are still working in our marriage,and trying to communicate without fighting but.......
Take care!
Myrta

Myrta,

Thanks for the advice! I'm trying!!

Faithfully,

My DD was in May of this year. Yes, I want to remain in the marriage, but I have a lot to work through, and we have to work on the marriage as well, obviously. As stated, I'm trying to change MY reactions to things that made me want to stray away from my H, such as his tension. Of course I know that all working people suffer from tension, but his is almost violent, and my reaction has been to just be quiet and pull away. I've learned (through MC) that even just ASKING him if he's okay or if there's anything I could do, helps him calm down. In the past, I'd chastise him for not being able to handle his aggressiveness, and I'd suggest that he have an outlet, such as a physical activity, to do.

I'm working on things. Slowly but surely. YES, I want to stay in the marriage, for many reasons. I honestly feel like I still love my H very much, but I'm SO far away from feeling IN LOVE with him again. We've been through a lot.

He's been tense since we're home from vacation, all due to his workload. It has NOTHING to do with the information I found out about my ex. He doesn't even know about that yet. His tension is solely due to his work schedule.

CC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It has NOTHING to do with the information I found out about my ex. He doesn't even know about that yet. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And when he finds out? How is he going to feel knowing that you are still hung up on your OW five months later? Maybe he'll feel like the vacation was a waste of time and money. Or that MC has been useless. Or that it really doesn't matter whether he's tense or not because nothing he does is as good for you as the connection to the OW.

Why would you even allow yourself to be in a position where you hear information about your OW from someone? You need to tell your friends that you don't want to hear anything about that woman. What is happening in her life now is not only none of your business but it doesn't matter in YOUR life and YOUR marriage. If your friends are told point-blank that you don't want to hear anything about the OW, then what you don't know isn't going to matter to you, is it? You have to let go of the need to control what is going on in her life. Believe me. I've been there. And the only way you will be able to do it is to remove yourself 100% from anything and anyone that has anything to do with her. It's hard when you have mutual friends, but it's not impossible.

Little tid-bits of information will only serve to draw you back in. And the fact that you reacted the way you did just shows that you are nowhere near being out of the woods. If you were strong and healthy and self-assured about it all, you would have said, "What happens with her doesn't matter in my life anymore."

The fact is, you got closure a long time ago. She stopped contacting you, didn't she? There's your closure. Stop guessing and speculating about what she might or might not be doing. IT DOESN'T MATTER IN YOUR LIFE ANYMORE. She is no longer any of your concern.

Back to your husband ... sure, you've been through a lot. So has every couple who stays married as long as you have. Stop looking for excuses everywhere. Spend your energy on rebuilding instead of overanalyzing things from over half a year ago. It's done. Move forward. All you're doing is creating an environment for your H to make an excuse for his own affair. And before you say he'll never do it, ask yourself if he thought YOU would ever do it.

FaithfullyHoping,

I haven't had time to read through any of your previous posts. Are you a WW? You mentioned having been through some of what I'm going through, so I'm interested in what you went through and where you are as far as recovery.

You're right--I should be still interested, five months after DD, about my ex. My mind works in mysterious ways. I can't wrap my brain around what happened between us. There were many questions left unanswered, and she seemed to have an about-face and left me hanging. I wish it ended better and I wish I DID have closure. Her walking away and refusing to talk to me didn't help me understand her choices, and after 3 years, I think I deserved that. After all, she and I broke our wedding vows to have a relationship together and it was pretty important. I think that I deserved a goodbye from her, complete with details to answer my questions. That's all I wanted.

I'm seeing a new therapist (for me) tomorrow. I'm hoping that she can answer some questions for me, such as why I can't get over this, five months later, and why it's so all-important to me.

My H knows all about how I feel. I never promise him things. He knows that I have to work through my own issues, as well as things in our marriage. He planned our vacation, and wasn't hoping for some miracle. It went nicely. I'm sure that my H is fed up with my not being able to get past my ex-gf. I'm sure he's regretting the day I met her, because I DID become a different person and my life hasn't been the same. My life now is a shell of what it used to be and he's not happy about it at all. He's not happy to see ME unhappy. I'm not happy about not being able to make him happy either. He's just waiting for the day that I "come back" to him, but I can't do that until I work through more of my own issues. In the meantime, I'm trying to be supportive, loving and close to him--as close as I can be. I know I'm taking a big chance, in that he may leave me, but I can't make false promises to him. I've hurt him enough.

CC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I haven't had time to read through any of your previous posts. Are you a WW? You mentioned having been through some of what I'm going through, so I'm interested in what you went through and where you are as far as recovery.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I am a WW. My A was 18 months long and ended just over a year ago. NC has been for over a year. My H are still together and going strong. I am a better person for having gone through extensive IC after the A, and our marriage is healthy and happy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I should be still interested, five months after DD, about my ex.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I assume that was a typo???!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> There were many questions left unanswered, and she seemed to have an about-face and left me hanging. I wish it ended better and I wish I DID have closure. Her walking away and refusing to talk to me didn't help me understand her choices, and after 3 years, I think I deserved that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, you don't DESERVE anything from your OW. You are a liar and a cheater. What makes you think you are entitled to anything?

CC, I said it before: you HAVE closure. She hasn't spoken to you in months, correct? Nothing about her matters anymore. Stop making pathetic excuses. You're grasping at straws and you look absolutely ridiculous and pathetic now. That's harsh, I know, but by your own admission you are wallowing in your own pain -- and blaming it on everyone else but yourself while you're at it.

Be realistic. If you had her in the room in front of you right now and she gave you all those "magic" answers that you so desire, then where would you be tomorrow? Better off? Definitely not.

The answers are already there in front of you. You are just being too weak to accept the pain of it and deal with it. It's easier for you to follow in your same, old tracks than it is for you to carve out new ones. Why work hard? It might be difficult. Why deal with the pain now when I can transfer all the problems I have onto someone else's actions.

She's DEAD to you, CC. Dead and gone. And you are more than likely wearing the patience of everyone in your life while you "mourn." Everyone is entitled to a mourning/healing period, but you used up all your time about 4 1/2 months ago. Everything thereafter has just been pathetic.

STOP putting yourself in a position where you have to think and wonder and analyze and invent reasons to feel sorry for yourself. I don't know what is going on in your life that you are being allowed to do this, but whatever it is, it's destructive.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He's just waiting for the day that I "come back" to him, but I can't do that until I work through more of my own issues. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tick, tick, tick, tick. How long have you been posting here and telling us that you are waiting to deal with your issues??? What are you WAITING for, woman?? Nobody is going to show up at your door or in your email box with all your issues figured out FOR you. And you are sure as hell not going to find your issues figured out while you are soliciting information about the OM from your mutual friends.

Every one of the posts you make here about yourself is a pile of excuses, and everything is something else's or somebody else's fault.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Are you a WW? You mentioned having been through some of what I'm going through, so I'm interested in what you went through and where you are as far as recovery.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll finish with the same quote I started with. WHY do you want to know about MY recovery and where I am at? Your goal should not be to compare yourself to anyone else. If you're here it's because you want to recover. So just START already!

Thanks for your input. Glad to see that your IC has helped you and helped your marriage. That's encouraging. My A was nearly THREE years long, and very intense, so maybe this is a little harder on me. That, combined with the fact that you're right--I'm pitiful now, mulling this over for far too long.

I did get a therapist as soon as I could (after DD), although that was nearly a month after, I believe. He didn't help much AT ALL, and I found him to be more accusatory and condesending. He HAS turned out to be a decent MC and has given us some good input.

In the meantime, I scoured through my health insurance plan, searching for my own IC. There were none to be found--no actual psychologists, no psychiatrists, only social workers, and I already went that route with my daughter years ago. I'd rather be in psychotherapy or with a psychologist. I finally found someone (a woman) who is pretty closeby, and I start tomorrow morning. I'm looking forward to this. YES, I've been dwelling on this for far too long. Do you think I like it?? I feel like a mere SHELL of my former self. I have guilt and pain and can hardly hold on til the end of each day. I feel like I have nothing to hold onto, nothing to look forward to. Everything is darkened by the A. So, I"m really looking forward to going tomorrow.

YES, that was a typo, saying "I should be still interested, five months after DD, about my ex." It should have read, "I shouldn't still be interested". Sorry!!

So, because I am a "liar and a cheat", I don't deserve anything from my OW? Everyone is entitled to closure. I totally disagree with you on that. Should I just shoot myself because I lied and cheated by having an A?? I made a mistake; lots of people make mistakes.

My OW has communicated with me via my sister (to retrieve MY items from my OW's house), via a messageboard (b/c I'm not "allowed" to have any other contact with her, and I know she reads posts there, so I left her 1 and she's written back). Other than that, she doesn't wish to communicate with me and she repeats that she wishes I'd stop all communication, now and forever, with her.

Right now I wish I had communication with her, as I found out from those "friends" that my ex-gf claimed that I leaked personal information about her and her family to various people on the internet, WHICH I NEVER DID. I want her to know that I didn't, and I'm very, very upset at this allegation, to the point where I may begin a libel suit against her for saying it. My theory is that if she and I could hash some things out (like her assuming I'd tell people her personal information!), we'd be better off. Some things were left undone, and I'd prefer to finish them.

Your statements: "Be realistic. If you had her in the room in front of you right now and she gave you all those "magic" answers that you so desire, then where would you be tomorrow? Better off? Definitely not" hit home for me, and I thank you for saying them. I hadn't thought about that. But you're probably right--I don't know what would satisfy me, and what "magic" answers I'm looking for. In my mind, I always thought I'd be better off knowing a few more things, like why she sounds so hateful now; like how she could think that I'd relay any of her personal information (like her family's name, address, etc); like how she's surviving this, when we had been inseparable for 3 years... I know that I have no "right" to get these answers, but I also know that I'd feel MUCH better getting them.

I don't know the answers to any of those questions. I don't know how she could have changed on a dime. I don't know how she didn't give me one last chance before telling her husband. I don't know how she didn't even give me a heads-up (as we agreed we'd do) before she told him. I don't know how she could go from needing me so badly to not ever speaking to me again. Nothing makes sense to me, and I'm beating myself up, wondering how I could have been so wrong. Was she not whom I thought she was? Was she "playing" me? I don't know, and it's driving me literally insane. I've NEVER been so wrong about anybody in my entire life.

Yes, you're right in that I'm wearing on people with this same crap. I know that. I'm hoping that I can deal with it better after seeing this new therapist. I surely hope so. Everyone around me deserves MUCH better. I know that. I often wonder if they'd be better off without me. I've thought about existing their lives, but I still love and need my children, and I still love my H. I just want to feel better and move on.

I don't see that I've made a "pile of excuses". I've tried desperately to figure things out and move on. I have MANY questions (such as my sexuality) to figure out yet.

I've been called "pathetic" by my ex-gf. When she decided to end the A last July (yet we remained friends, and there was always some sexual intimacy thereafter), I held onto that hurt and reminded her of it often. She wondered how i got so pathetic and told me that she could never be in love with me again, now that I was "pathetic". Made me feel even more deeply sad. She told me back then that people who "lose a spouse by death" deal with it better than I did. She was right and she'd still be telling me the same thing now. I know I need help.

I don't know how this thread turned into this, but I feel even worse. I DO thank you for your input, however.

CC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by
Everyone is entitled to closure.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Where did you learn this? It is simply not true.

The word "entitled" in this context is frightening.

All affairs are painful. Your affair was painful.The pain is your only guarantee. You are entitled to nothing.

Forget feeling entitlement... it's a fools quest.

Look at things you are currently blessed with in your life.

A second chance.... aren't you one lucky girl? You are given a second chance even tho you are not entitled to one!

You earn some things in life, and a good solid healthy marriage is one of those things you earn.

Stop the "entitlement" dead end... and earn your self respect and a wonderful marriage relationship.

These things are not "given"... these things are earned.

Pep

PS ---> the reason I wrote this to you is.... There are things you can/should do that will forward your personal recovery, and perhaps your marriage recovery. Waiting/hoping/looking for for "closure" is NOT one of the things that will help you. It only stalls your recovery. You will gain nothing with the "closure". It does not exist.

Moving on after an affair is NOT like exiting through a door and voila'.... you've achieved the magical "closure".

How do you begin the healing?

You slowly put distance between yourself and the affair. Like walking slowly away from an object, it gradually appears smaller and smaller, until it disappears from the horizon. There is no quick way out. No "closure" and sudden relief from the confusion and the pain...

All you can do is just distance yourself from the affair by changing directions, and by assuming a new perspective.

<small>[ October 19, 2004, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

CC,

I wonder what you would say to your H if he wrote what you wrote. You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know the answers to any of those questions. I don't know how she could have changed on a dime. I don't know how she didn't give me one last chance before telling her husband. I don't know how she didn't even give me a heads-up (as we agreed we'd do) before she told him. I don't know how she could go from needing me so badly to not ever speaking to me again. Nothing makes sense to me, and I'm beating myself up, wondering how I could have been so wrong. Was she not whom I thought she was? Was she "playing" me? I don't know, and it's driving me literally insane. I've NEVER been so wrong about anybody in my entire life. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now read this and see if you can answer these questions for your H. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't know the answers to any of those questions. I don't know how she could have changed on a dime. I don't know how she didn't give me one last chance before she fell in love with her gf and left me emotionally. I don't know how she didn't even give me a heads-up (as we VOWED we'd do) before she told her she loved her. I don't know how she could go from needing me so badly to not speaking to me as a W should her H. Nothing makes sense to me, and I'm beating myself up, wondering how I could have been so wrong. Was she not whom I thought she was? Was she "playing" me? I don't know, and it's driving me literally insane. I've NEVER been so wrong about anybody in my entire life.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So CC how are you going to answer those questions to your H? They are the same ones you know, except that you and he had children together and had VOWED to stick together through sickness and health, for better or worse, until death. That did not happen, Why? What "closure" are you going to give him?

I think you would be well advised to reread what Pep wrote you. Entitlements are a politicians way of promising what cannot be delivered, and you sure are not entitled to ANY piece of your ex-gf's life. I think you will be lost until YOU decide to do something about your family and H. You will drift and wonder and drift some more because you have failed to understand your H's role in your life and thus you cut him out of your emotional life and just USED him for support when you needed it.

Time to look outside of yourself and at others.

Must go, but do see how well you do answering those questions. I think the answers will illustrate something to you.

God Bless,

JL

Pepperband,

Thanks for what you wrote. YES, my therapist and a few friends have expected me to walk through a door and "viola", be over the A. It hasn't happened. It STILL hurts. Just when I think it's getting smaller and smaller, something comes up and I'm back to square one. This is why I'm looking forward to seeing my new therapist tomorrow morning.

You're right-no one is "entitled" to a second chance or closure. I guess I've been dwelling on that for too long, and I've been trying to figure everything out. In the meantime, I'm slowly losing people close to me.

JL,

Interestingly enough, as I wrote those things about my ex-gf, I thought the same thing--how eery is it that my H must be feeling the same way. You asked what the difference was? He DOES have some closure--I'm right here, and I would answer anything he asks of me. If he wanted to yell, accuse me, be disappointed or even hateful towards me, I'd be ready to accept what he had to throw at me. I'm here, ready to explain to him, to the best of my ability, why I went outside of our marriage to connect with someone like I did. I'm still trying to figure that out, and I'm not getting any closer to the answers, 5 months later.

You agreed with Pepperband that no one is entitled to closure? I guess that I have high expectations of people (even of myself). I KNOW how I've hurt my H. I KNOW that I've hurt my ex-gf along the way, yet I tried to do the best I could with both of them. When you're in a close relationship, whether it's a friendship or romantic relationship, there's a sense of "owing" that person something. I owed my H the truth, when I felt that I could confide in him. It took a lot, but I felt close enough to him that I HAD to tell him. I owed him much more, but I let him down.

My point is that if *I* had been the one to break off the A, I'd feel a sense of owing something to my OW. I'd want to help her see why I was ending it. I'd want to make sure she was relatively okay before leaving. I'd want to make many things clear, so that she wasn't left with feeling used and "played". I expected the same from her, but you're right, no one is ENTITLED to that.

I know it sounds like I'm talking from both sides of my mouth here-expecting things from my ex-gf, and meanwhile I've hurt my H the same way. But the big difference is that I haven't ended it with him and walked away from a relationship that we had for over 24 years. My ex did that and I am still hurt over it.

Thanks for your input, as usual. I'll get back to you all after therapy, and hopefully I won't sound as "pitiful" or so deeply in the fog. I just want to get back to being me!

CC

Ah! CC,

I think like Pep, the "entitled" part is what bothers me. It is not just about closure, you will get closure all of us are certain about that, but it won't come from where you feel "entitled" to it. Do you see what I am driving at. One way or another closure will happen.

Allow me to use your words to make a point. You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Interestingly enough, as I wrote those things about my ex-gf, I thought the same thing--how eery is it that my H must be feeling the same way. You asked what the difference was? He DOES have some closure--I'm right here, and I would answer anything he asks of me. If he wanted to yell, accuse me, be disappointed or even hateful towards me, I'd be ready to accept what he had to throw at me. I'm here, ready to explain to him, to the best of my ability, why I went outside of our marriage to connect with someone like I did. I'm still trying to figure that out, and I'm not getting any closer to the answers, 5 months later.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See the part I put in bold. What you are saying is that you cannot give your H closure as you want if from your exGF. So why do you expect it from her,when you cannot give it to your H. You see he can yell, he can cry, he can ask all of the questions you would want to ask ex GF and he will NOT GET any better answers from you than you are currently getting from your exGF. He will have to heal on his own and somehow arrive at a point of closure where he feels he can trust you without you being able to tell him what or why it happened.

It is a sad thing really, but it is life. I am guessing but I would guess that he has not asked because he feels he should have done better as an H and he realizes you cannot help him, because you cannot give him the very thing you seek from exGF.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You agreed with Pepperband that no one is entitled to closure? I guess that I have high expectations of people (even of myself). I KNOW how I've hurt my H. I KNOW that I've hurt my ex-gf along the way, yet I tried to do the best I could with both of them.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, this last statement is not true. You knew you were hurting your marriage and your H and you went ahead. Now you can justify this by saying you did your best not to hurt him, but your best would have been to not have an affair. That word "entitled" sort of rings in my head, how about yours? You failed your marriage CC, because you gave yourself away to another person. You felt you were entitled to the happiness this relationship offered, and frankly your H was left to "deal with it."


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When you're in a close relationship, whether it's a friendship or romantic relationship, there's a sense of "owing" that person something. I owed my H the truth, when I felt that I could confide in him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please correct me but I read this statement to say "you owed your H the truth, when you felt it convenient to tell him. You felt you could do this on YOUR time scale. Am I reading this correctly? If not please correct me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It took a lot, but I felt close enough to him that I HAD to tell him. I owed him much more, but I let him down.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, but further you let your marriage and your family down as well. Are you beginning to see why Pep was sort of on the "entitled" kick with you? It is a mind set that justifies alot of things and usually not good things. Hence her pointing this out. You will reach closure CC when you realize that you are not entitled to do many many things in life, but you are obligated to do the right things. At that point, I truely believe you will begin to obtain what you seek...closure.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My point is that if *I* had been the one to break off the A, I'd feel a sense of owing something to my OW. I'd want to help her see why I was ending it. I'd want to make sure she was relatively okay before leaving. I'd want to make many things clear, so that she wasn't left with feeling used and "played". I expected the same from her, but you're right, no one is ENTITLED to that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Further, you did not give this to your H. You broke off the marriage, and it is really still broken, yet you did not make things clear in fact you used him and "played" him for quite awhile didn't you? In a way you still are. It occurs to me that closure will come when you realize that what goes around comes around. You have not reached that stage yet. But, I think you are getting there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know it sounds like I'm talking from both sides of my mouth here-expecting things from my ex-gf, and meanwhile I've hurt my H the same way. But the big difference is that I haven't ended it with him and walked away from a relationship that we had for over 24 years. My ex did that and I am still hurt over it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh CC, here is the part you have not realized. You did end it with him. You basically blew up your marriage and all that it contained. You are still with him ONLY because he has given you a second chance. Many men would have filed, taken the kids, and left you to deal with your GF. You did walk away from a 24 year relationship and if you would have had your way, you would be with your GF. You have not faced that yet. You have not realized that you sit where you do, not because of your actions but your H's actions. He had every right to move you out and he had even biblical support for divorcing you.

You are not there because you made a choice, in fact you have yet to make that choice. You are there because he has allowed you to be there through all of his hurt. You are not there because you love him or are in love with him. You are there because it is the only place to go right now, and you have said as much on this very thread.

CC, when you really face these things, I think you will then achieve what you want. You are on borrowed time and your H may yet decide you are not worth the effort. You are not back, and you did end it with him. You had made your choice and it was for exGF. You pine for her because she was and is your choice. You are going through a lot of this because she is your choice and your H knows it. Why he is with you I don't know, but I do know this he loves you, but you don't love him. You are not acting in a loving way and your focus is NOT on him.

Hopefully this will change with time, and if it does you will find what you seek, but it will not come from where you are looking.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for your input, as usual. I'll get back to you all after therapy, and hopefully I won't sound as "pitiful" or so deeply in the fog. I just want to get back to being me!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not sure "pitiful" is the word I would choose, but I wonder if you know who YOU is. What do you think YOU is CC? I think that may be something you should ponder and discuss with your IC. I wish you the best in your session and I hope that something I have said is of use to you.

God Bless,

JL

"I know it sounds like I'm talking from both sides of my mouth here-expecting things from my ex-gf, and meanwhile I've hurt my H the same way. "

Well, yes, in fact, it does. But, you are not thinking straight (yet). You have some changes to make before you have a greater capacity for empathy toward your husband.

But the big difference is that I haven't ended it with him and walked away from a relationship that we had for over 24 years.

Betrayal of a 24 year marriage.... compared to this ....


My ex did that and I am still hurt over it.

The break up of a 3 year adulterous affair....

Even making that comparison between these 2 relationships should cause you embarrassing discomfort.

Still want to speak of what you feel entitled to???

Use your imagination--->

What would happen to you, if you made a 6 month commitment to spend all your relationship energy toward developing empathy and understanding for your husband of 24 years... and during that 6 months, you make the DECISION to abandon your feelings and investment in OW .... You could make a decision to make your husband your priority, place his needs above your own feelings... and commit to doing this for 6 months...

What do you think YOU would gain?

Pep

PS ---> I know the answer.... In all likelyhood....You would fall deeply in love with your H. And, your self-esteem would blossom.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My A was nearly THREE years long, and very intense, so maybe this is a little harder on me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is why I suggested that you didn't need the details about my background. Your A was longer than mine, so what, you are ENTITLED to more time to wallow about it?

Everybody who is in an A considers it intense. Nobody would go to the risk and trouble if it weren't. Your situation is not special.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My mind works in mysterious ways. I can't wrap my brain around what happened between us. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, it doesn't. It works exactly the same way every other WW's brain works. And it's not that you CAN'T wrap your brain around it, you just don't. You're not a stupid woman. You hid an affair for three years so you must have your wits about you. You're just choosing not to use them for something that might be UNPLEASANT for you. (It's much more fun to exercise that brain power to enable you to lie and cheat, isn't it?)




</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YES, I've been dwelling on this for far too long. Do you think I like it?? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Honestly? Yes, I do think you like it. I personally think you are lacking the attention from your OW and replacing it with the attention you receive by being "unable" to recover. Your thoughts and ideas here are crystal clear and perfectly thought out. How is it that you can do all that but you "can't" recover? What exactly are you getting out of this state of being? And that is NOT a rhetorical question. I think you need to answer it. What exactly are you getting out of living like this? And then answer the opposite question: What would you have if you actually recovered. I think you really need to think about these things, CC.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> There were many questions left unanswered, and she seemed to have an about-face and left me hanging. I wish it ended better and I wish I DID have closure. Her walking away and refusing to talk to me didn't help me understand her choices, and after 3 years, I think I deserved that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CC, do you remember this next quote? You wrote it yourself over 6 weeks ago:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I went to see her in March and there was tension. I was still in love, and I wanted badly to try to maintain the friendship (which is all she said she wanted at this point). When I got home, we began arguing more and more. She was pulling back and I was upset. I threatened to "out" her to her husband, because she seemed to suppress our affair. I threatened to tell my husband too. That night, she told her husband "everything". She sent me an email, according to his request, and said she couldn't speak to me again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the person from whom you are expecting "closure." It sounds like you closed it all yourself. Why are you dragging this on?

More of your own words:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Three days later, another email came in. She took a chance and wrote to me, even though she wasn't "allowed". She told me that she was trying to get through the end of each day. She asked me not to respond to the email. She said that she was sorry but that I "painted" her into a corner. She said she'd miss me and my family very much. She said that she didn't know if she could ever contact me again. She sounded distraught. I was appreciative that she wrote, but sickened at the same time. I worried more. I continued writing, but didn't acknowledge THAT email, in fear of her husband reading it.

I wrote daily (less than the 5-10 emails we used to exchange daily!!). Just once a day. I still tried calling. All to no avail. No response. I worried that she was dead or in an institution. I called one night and heard her voice. She hung up on me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Time to move on.

<small>[ October 19, 2004, 11:58 PM: Message edited by: FaithfullyHoping ]</small>

I just wanted to quickly say that I'll be offline for a while. I was VERY upset last night. A mutual friend of mine and my ex-gf's sent me some emails from my ex that spoke about me in the most harsh, hateful way. Seeing how she feels is horrible. I'm NOW seeing that I made a mistake. I trusted this person and I broke my wedding vows for her? My judgment was clouded; it was definitely off. I see that now. She couldn't have cared about me if she's convinced herself that I was "abusive" in our relationship. She's not taking any ownership of our relationship. I wasn't in it alone. SHE participated fully, and I have "proof" of that. It'll have to be good enough to know that *I* know how it really was, and if she wants to convince herself otherwise, it's her deal. I'm done worrying about her, and trying to figure this all out. I think I've just wasted another 5 months of my life on her when she never deserved it to begin with.

All of this introspection is painful, but I guess it's an important key to moving on. I just want my life back, better than it was before. Hopefully I could be strong enough to give my H what he deserves.

Thanks all for your input. I went to see my new therapist yesterday (gee, I could have used her today!!), and it was very hopeful. That, combined with reading here and changing my thinking *might* just save my marriage.

CC

CC:

I don’t have a 2X4 with me this morning and I am sorry you are so upset. IN any event it seems you are now seeing the true colors of the OW. You are not alone and I believe these discoveries are quite common in the aftermath of D-day and the resolution of the affair.

You must realize that the overwhelming majority of OPs present a picture of themselves that seldom matches who they really are. This is more prevalent in long distance relationships where the OP can create a wonderful personality for the purpose of enticing the prey into close range. Remember that your entire relationship was built on a fantasy and that the harsh reality was carefully excluded. The filter of the affair only allows the nice stuff into the relationship. Your disappointment with the OW now that you have seen her true character is not uncommon. If you ask most WWs they would probably agree OM was only presenting the positive side of their persona in the affair.

I am glad you have decided to move on.

I suggest you stop digging up those emails and ignore the whole thing. As long as you keep looking at emails in that fashion you will perpetuate your withdrawal.

Stanley,

I'm crying as I'm reading your post. Thank you for what you said. While I was convinced all along that I knew her SO well, I think you're right--she only portrayed what I wanted to see. This hurts me beyond belief, and I keep thinking of how much my H has been hurt by me too. It's a desperate feeling. I feel like running away (or worse), but I'm trying to hold on. I can't believe I made such a mistake in judgment and risked losing my husband and family for someone who is able to speak so badly about me. I gave her SO much in the past 3 years and I thought she appreciated it, and instead she speaks badly of me and makes me sound like an "abuser".

I'm not reading any old emails anymore. This was all new information emailed to me by our mutual friends. Maybe this person wanted to "snap" me into reality and to see that my ex wasn't so great and that our relationship wasn't all I thought it was. My bad judgment here is really hurting me and I feel like I have NO self-confidence right now.

I'll be back when I can. Thanks, Stanley. This is horrid to go through!!

CC