edited because I promised<p>[This message has been edited by alias (edited January 07, 2000).]

You ok???<P>Eat something bland. Little bits every hour or so. Start replacing your fluids. Orange juice or something similar is a good bet. Drink a lot, a little at a time. Plain ole aspirin for the headache. But eating and drinking will force it out of your system better than anything else.<P>OK, now that's done. Not a great night. But honesty. Voluntary honesty. Not such a lousy thing at all. Now admittedly, there should have been no contact. And since there was, he should have told you without asking. And even if he didn't, he should have told the truth the first time you asked. But none of those things is really easy. And he felt guilty. And he DID tell you the truth on his own - eventually. That's the positive here. So hold on to that positive and reward it.<P>I guess I mean appreciate it as the baby step it is and encourage him to take more. Sometimes that's all you get for a while. But encouraging those will help them to grow. And it sucks you have to do it, but you do.<P>Take care of yourself today. You're gonna need it! And don't let this bit of dishonest/honesty get you down too much. You guys can work on it in counselling. I have a really good feeling it'll eventually be what you want it to be.<P>Hang in there.<P>Lori

Thanks, Lori. I know I'll be feeling better eventually, but I was flying so high from last week, the ring...I guess I was bound to crash sooner or later, I mean this is him I am married to, not Prince Charming.<P>Magical thinking still prevails when I am not careful, you know, "I prayed for a sign, and he sent flowers. I needed commitment and he bought me a new ring...therefore, nothing bad will ever happen again....<P>And if I click the heels of my sparkling red shoes three times, I'll wake up in heaven and never hurt like this again...<P>thanks {{{{Lori}}}}, you are a good friend...<P>gotta find some fluids and Tylenol.<P>fortunately the kids are still sleeping!<P>unfortunately, we gave the 7 year old a drum set !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <P>I'll update you when something happens...<P>h. asked me to 'do something fun' with the boys, we have plenty of cash these days...but I can't think straight, so not crying, and taking a shower is my goal.<p>[This message has been edited by alias (edited December 27, 1999).]

hi again. i am going to email my h. and see if he is willing to contact our counselor and try to get an appointment this week instead of waiting till the 7th...that is so far away, and I cannot medicate myself with rum for 11 days.<P>liz\pogp

Good deal. You'll be ok, Liz. I know you will. And I like the idea of moving the appointment up if you can.<P>Hang in there, ok?<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{Liz}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Sorry I got confused b/f. Had a busy night myself.<P>Lori

POGP,<BR>Anytime we have a discussion about the OW, I end up cursing her, using language that rappers would be ashamed of. The last time I believe I wished a black, rotting, internal & facial disease upon her. As you said, it is very bad for both lovebanks. When I'm thinking, I try to pray for her, forgive her, and lift her life up to God--and hope that He punishes her in a very Psalmic/Old Testament way. Mostly I try to never think of her.<P>Your H did tell you some truth. It wasn't in the order you would have liked and drained not only some love but the very delicate trust that you've been nurturing. It hurts.<P>As for the hangover, hopefully you feel much better today. I just expect to feel lousy the day after drinking (am trying not to drink so much anymore, I got to self-medicating a bit too much).<P>Take care<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Do not get tired of doing what is right, for after awhile you will reap a harvest of blessings if you do not get discouraged and give up. (Gal 6:9)<P><BR>

thanks dear friends,<P>I am glad the Galatians passage (let us not grow weary in doing good...) is an exhortation and not a commandment..the Lord is gracious and merciful. <P>Our friend the Christian psychologist laughed with me this morning when I said 'How did you know I drank too much last night?" <P>He said "Well , my dear, some stresses are cause for taking a little too much alcohol!" <BR>No lecture, just love, he knows us so well and knows what a puritan I am at heart (Mayflower roots on both sides!)<P>lizzie<P>------------------<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by alias (edited December 27, 1999).]

Hi,<P>Sometimes the truth really, really sucks!!! But, I think that it is so much easier to know the truth, deal with it (in oh so many yucky ways) and then move on with solving the problem (addiction).<P>You and your husband have made so many great strides toward your marriage's recovery. You just so happened to run into a snag. What a wonderful thing it is that your husband's conscience is back in good working condition. (bad dream about you leaving) <P>About one month after discovery, I found out about my husband's true secret e-mail account. He had set up a phony one for me to check. He had not been in contact with OW, but was afraid that she would continue to contact him so he lied about his Hotmail account (how fitting of a name.) I gave him the old lecture; "Is this how you want to remember your life being as you lay on your death bed one day? Is this the kind of human that you aspire to be? Are you proud of your accomplishments and your role as a family man, dad and son?" He did not sleep at all that night. The next day he told me that he had to confess "the rest of the story" to me. That there were facts of his affair that I was mislead about. He confessed. It was not a pretty sight. Of course, I ranted, raved, cried, screamed and I wanted him out, to leave me and our son and stop causing the pain that he had been causing us. (I was/am pregnant so drinking was not an option) We had been in counseling and read the great books of Dr. Harley. How could he not be honest with me from the start when it was all that Dr. Harley preached and our counselor encouraged? He claimed that he was afraid for his life, of losing me, of losing his family. Our counselor agreed that it was wrong to not have disclosed all info. but that all was not lost, because the truth did eventually come out. In time, I did get over it and I am glad that he came around and his conscience won out. It had not been in working condition for the four months he was involved with the OW (his conscience, that is) <P>Of course, you know the steps that your husband has to make in order to insure that your recovery is a 100% success. NO CONTACT. How about a no contact letter? Your H seems willing to do and try anything for the benefit of the marriage. It seems as though that he needs help in fighting against his addiction.<P>By now, your hangover is surely gone? Try to move up your counseling session and please, stay away from that rum for a while.<P>Good luck,<BR>Meg <BR>

hi meg.<P>last night, about 2 am, I tried to insist on a no contact letter. He hates anything 'canned', hates anything from a book, says that he will not initiate contact with a no contact letter, but is willing to tell her that he wants no contact if she contacts him again. <P>There are lots of mitigating factors, their professional organization isn't very large (150), their profession involves occasional referrals and collaborations, (not between them personally, but between the old company and new. <P>Mostly, he just doesn't want to give up the degree of control...<P>see, we have paperwork proving her other affair and since she screwed him (two timed with the boss), he wants to stay in contact so he can screw her just before she gets the promotion she has been sleeping towards...get it? Tangled webs abound!<P>Obviously, 2 am last night was a bad time to try to get anything accomplished.<P>I think either his old friend the psychologist who just contacted me ("haven't heard from h., he brushed me off last year...is everything ok?") or our therapist will be able to make better suggestions than anything that comes from me.<P>I remember now why I haven't been reaching for that particular form of medication...I feel crappy and I am wasting one of my kids vacation days hiding out in my room while they play outside.<P>thanks for listening, meg<P>------------------<P>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR><p>[This message has been edited by POGP (edited December 30, 1999).]

Geez, Liz, that just sucks a big one too!! There is no end to the stupidity of men who cheat. <P>What kills me is this: (sorry, I'm gonna mention myself here, hope it's okay...) I had an affair for three months that resulted in a one time hop in the sack. I felt like [censored], I hated myself, I <B>still had to work with this man</B> and had less contact than some of these men who <B>hang on</B> because their precious egos won't let them do <B>what their wives say</B>!! What is that?<P>Yes, you should be happy his conscience is working, and yes, it's good that he was honest. Just like my H. But dammit, they lie and hurt us, then are honest about it and we're suppose to roll over and let them scratch our tummy? And seriously, I used that example (the scrathing our tummy part) because it when we are most vulnerable. It's like when my H said the words I've been waiting for: I'll move my furniture back in, change churches, and see a counselor... on the heels of admitting he was with <B>another</B> woman... what the he11 is that!!<P>Egad!!!

The truth sucks....but it's better to know the truth than to have that ugly secret hanging around. Sounds like your H is in withdrawal. My therapist said that H should disclose everything. It only makes it worse if I find out later. But, it seems common that we only find out the truths in bits & pieces....not the entire truth at one time.<P>I know that your H doesn't want to write the "No Contact" letter, but it sounds like it is absolutely necessary. I wouldn't recommend him breaking it off to her in person.<P>Hope you can get into counseling earlier than your appointment in January. Your H made a mistake, but he can also fix it. Hang in there and stay patient. It sounds like your H loves you very much and wants your marriage to work.

thanks for the support, i am just devastated that all this apparent "progress" was couched in another lie. he even told our counselor that she was brilliant about how he was hanging on to a fantasy, and then he called OW one more time...<P>i give up<P>i told him all the work is his to do now,<P>i would even give up the kids if i could go somewhere and forget<P>update: we have a counseling session tomorrow at 6 pm eastern, please pray that she suggests a no contact letter, he will be furious if i suggest it again...<P>so much love and anger rolled into one mixed up, hurting man...<p>[This message has been edited by alias (edited December 27, 1999).]

Hang In there? I think you are handling yourself great. Your husband appears to be really trying. The ood part about it is that he has a conscience!!!!<P>------------------<BR>"If you can learn from the mistakes of others, you won't have to make them youself."<P>

You are still a pearl of great price whether you feel like it or not! Anyone would take a nose-dive when they get blind sided like you did. Your reaction I doubt was any different then any one of us. Truth though it is the very thing that sets us free is also a two-edged sword. Sometimes we need some regrouping room (due to our human nature) to turn our thoughts from our hurt to our Helper.<BR>You are in my prayers dear friend, today and tomorrow and whenever you need them. <BR>Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and start all over again. This is not a dress rehersal but thank God He continues to give us His renewing strength. Liz, God is in control even of this new revelation and I know thats not news to you! j)

thank you dears,<P>counseling at 6 pm tuesday evening<BR>update later<P>liz<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

I don't know how they do it (betrayers/men), but upon disecting this issue for months I am reasonabily convinced they can have this diminishing contact while being committed to the marriage.<P>I'm not sure of the dynamics. Maybe it is that men can compartmentalize. Maybe it is a bit of Macho. Maybe they really feel so little it doesn't really hurt (it's over and that's that). Maybe they fear that they look like they can't handle it, so they handle it to prove they can. Maybe they feel sorry for OW or just have a warped sense of courtesy. I don't know.<P>I do know my H kept phone contact with his Brazen Hussy for a couple of months. Although I have never figured out why he did it, I am convinced in his own mind he was not threatening our marriage by doing it (as long as I didn't know). When I found out, I think he was ready to drop it. Since they really had no connection in real life, this was easy. <P>I have to say I was devastated when I found out and it has taken a long time to overcome this additional contact. I do believe I gave it far more weight than it deserved or that my H gave it.<P>Hope the appointment goes well.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Unfortunately, FHL - you probably are right.<P>More importantly, POGP, your husband is being HONEST. Concentrate on that. Concentrate on your husband wanting to tell you the truth.<P>By him telling you, it breaks the "high" of the addiction. It takes the romance of the secret out of the equation.<P>You must have been praying for your husband, and the truth? <P>I know it is hard to accept the truth and the feeling of being lied to AGAIN. But, you must concentrate on the the fact he is honest. Integral component unfortunately I didn't do, and I wish I had been sedated during and after vs. lovebusting. <P>I knew there was something for me to learn in all of this. I think it is self control.<P>Good luck with the counselor.<BR>hugs,<BR>tnt

dear tnt and fhl,<P>yes, I have been praying for his mind, lots of "binding" and "loosing" prayers that I learned as a teenager in a spiritually powerful youth group. The principles of spiritual warfare are very helpful when someone has been 'ensnared' by "the adulteress" Prov. 6/7.<P>He was very immature emotionally and spiritually and really threw in the towel cause he didn't believe in victorious living.<P>I pray now for his eyes to be opened to how gracious and forgiving God is...<P>He knows he has been richly blessed (family loves him still, I do, church folks that know have been kind and sweet...) but I think the step of humility may seem too much right now...he has apologized to me, but doesn't feel remorseful before God...says he prayed to be delivered from sexual sin and temptations and is tired of fighting the battle...so he watches whatever trashy stuff he wants (not X rated, just tv).<P>I wish he understood why I only listen to Christian radio, why I live prayerfully...he used to, but it was all HIS WORKS, trying to be good, never understanding grace very well...<P>thanks for your prayers and love,<P>I'm still hanging by a thread, but it is a braided thread made up of the prayers of my friends..<P>My best friend who is a Christian and a family/children's counselor just left after a nice lunch visit (well, our kids were wild, but we prayed and talked anyway).<BR>God has given me a great safety net, which is really the reason I haven't snapped.<BR>

It really is a good thing that he was honest, but I can surely understand your reaction and why. I'm sure I would do the same if my husband told me the whole truth. I haven't been successful in getting the questions in my mind answered, he just tells me it's over, it's in the past so just forget it. Well, I can't forget it. Yes, I have forgiven him, even though he's never asked me to forgive him, however what he did is permanently etched in my mind. All I can do is pray, pray, pray. <P>I feel the same way you do, that "SHE" is wedged between us in the bed. It hurts. I cry a lot at night after he's asleep. So, I know what you mean. You are in my prayers Liz. <P>Don't give up, you have come so far already. It really is worth it in the long run.<P>What are the principles of spiritual warfare?<P>So, how did it go with the counselor today?<P>You are a wonderful Christian wife, and your husband is very very lucky to have you.

Hi , <P>AW, thanks for your prayers. <P>The principles of spiritual warfare I referred to are more or less what I outlined in "fixing our mind, capturing those thoughts" at the bible study forum. <P>There is more too it, but the basic premise is that the any victory we have over sin (ours or the consequences of others) is based upon the victory of the cross and resurrection. <P>By praying "in the power of the resurrection" or asking for "the victory that has already been won by Your resurrection", we remind both ourselves and 'the other side' that we belong to Christ and will not be overcome, but rather claim the power to overcome.<P>It isn't that we are reminding the Lord to bless us, rather that we realize, claim, and live AS IF we actually believe in resurrection power. I have found in the past month that my faith hadn't ever really been tested against a stronghold of sin (my h.' foggy values and the power of OW's seduction), and now I actually know what the 2 Corinthians 10 passage means about 'every thing that sets itself up against the knowledge of God". <P>I believe that OW was functioning as the agent sent to disrupt my h.'s wavering faith and attack our family. <P>Yes, I contributed to the demise, but I think that our lack of joint prayer for a few years combined with his loss of trust in God when his mom died really set him up to accept her offer--<P> "I know how to have an affair, I've done this before, no one will get hurt, it will just be fun" Sounds alot like that 'adulteress' in Proverbs 6 & 7, huh?<P>Anyway, the basic prayer pattern is:<P>1. approach God with reverence and worship, <BR>2) tell him you are powerless over the situation, <BR>3)ask for his continued grace and mercy (here I ask that he not 'give up' yet on my h., for the sake of my children), <BR>4)thank Him for the work of the cross and resurrection,<BR>5) ask for its power to be manifest in ...situation, "For the sake of Your glory",<BR>6)thank Him for what He will do, and promise to tell others about what He has done for you.<P>Other people may have a different format, but this is how I learned to pray for power back in high school.<P>I'm posting an update on last night separately.<P>Thanks for listening.<P>lizzie