My husband and I have been married for 6 years in January but have been together for 10. We lived together for 4 years before getting married. We both had been married previously and although we loved each other very much and very committed to one another, we both were hesitant about remarrying. We both have children from our first marriages. My two are graduated from high school and going to college and his is in the 6th grade. My ex lives in another state and has never been an issue in our relationship at all. His ex is a totally different story. She lives in the same town and is constantly causing a ruckus with us.

I found out recently that prior to us getting married, he had a fling with his ex wife. They were contemplating getting back together is what my husband told me. But he then realized that nothing would be different from what it was before when he had married her and she would always be the way she is. (She is now on her 6th marriage and has affair after affair)

I was devistated to say the least. When my husband told me about this, I knew about what time it was because we had been having some issues. I just chalked it up to normal couple stuff. We worked through it and everything was fine. My husband and I were GREAT together. Sex life was wonderful. We loved spending time together, we had the same interests. We both treated each others children like our own-none of this his and hers stuff. But my husband always felt guilty about raising his son in a split family. He says if he would have known they were going to divorce, he would have never had kids. I don't believe he would have divorced her if she hadn't left him and started the proceedings, even with all her affairs. He felt that strongly about being a whole family for his son. He swears that it is over. He made it clear to her that he loved me, we had a good life and he was going to stay and work things out with me.

We recently have gone into a custody battle with her and that is how everything came out. She made comments in Court about their on again off again flings. My husband confessed everything to me and swore that everything was over and he was committed to me. The problem is we still have to have contact with her all the time due to their son. She uses any little thing she can to contact my husband. He has told her directly that unless it was a dire emergency that she had no reason to be contacting him. But she refuses to listen. Their son is 12, when he was little I can understand that it was important they speak on a regular basis-but he is old enough to speak on his own now. She has come out and point blank admitted to me-to their son-to my husband that she will do anything she can to break us up. She still loves him she says. (even though she just got married as I said for the 6th time)

I just do not know what to do about 1. getting over the affair and 2. getting rid of the resentment when we have to deal with her and see her all the time.

I know this is been long and windy-but I want to save my marriage and I do not know how to get rid of this sick feeling in my stomach.

Shell,

Welcome to marriage builders. I think you will learn a lot here and I hope that you read the articles on this site. They will help you alot.

Ok, let me start by making a few assumptions since it was not clear from your post. The flings your now H had with his ex occured before you were married right? Now I understand that they hurt you, and my next comments are NOT to diminish that. So please read these things in that spirit.

At marriage builders it is encouraged that people try to keep their marriages going, rebuild them, make them better. When there are children it is thought that a marriage is the best situation. If he was single and wanted to try again with his exW people here would have encouraged him to do so. HOWEVER, they would have encouraged him to be honest with you as well. Something he did NOT do.

You would have been hurt had he been honest but you are doubly hurt because he was trying with her AND he did not tell you. You should be. However, you hurt will not help you or the marriage.

I read this and thought to myself "Thank God he got this out of his system before he married her. He now KNOWS for sure that she is NOT the woman for him." It is hard to break those bonds Shell and it seems they are broken now.

I suspect she must be reasonably attractive and knows how to attract men given the number of marriages and affairs she has. She seems very skilled at this thing. So she would be able to lure your H back to try to save the marriage. HOwever she failed, and now you have an H that is NOT attracted to her. So this is a good news /bad news thing in my mind.

What you two need to do is read the articles here on the policies of "radical honesty" and the Policy of Joint Agreement, POJA. These along with Harley's four rules will protect your marriage and make it stronger.

Now as to her interference and your annoyance at it. I look at this and think " well of course, this is her method, and it is NOT working, but she knows nothing else." She is a manipulator and she is trying with your marriage. It must drive her crazy to see you not react, to show love to your H, and have him do so to you. May I suggest that you and your H sit down and decide to focus on your love for each other, showing affection to each other, and realize who/what this woman is.

What she is...is not worth your time. She is simply a form of entertainment so that you don't have to watch the soaps. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> If you and your H begin to see her this way, you will see the humor in her feeble attempts at control, and when you do, you will drive her crazy or she will quit.

Shell, her currency is manipulation and reaction. If you aren't manipulated and you come to the point that you don't react, her money is no good any more. She cannot buy into your marriage any longer. Further, if you two come together this way, you will help his child immensely. Someone has to show this poor child what a healthy relation looks like, feels like and is. It should by you and your H.

So from a guys point of view, I say deal with it by changing your perspective. THis woman is a 6 time loser. She made a second run at your H to be and lost, she lost him the first time, she has had multiple affairs and... she is losing. You won't find a soap more entertaining on TV. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

As for your H, you two need to really talk. I would strongly recommend that you take the Needs questionaire on this site and both answer the questions, then discuss them. It will go a long way to opening up your marriage and communications. You can heal from this, and in fact you two can make the marriagea better. It will take his cooperation and effort and it will take yours as well.

You can do this Shell, do some reading of the articles and yes the posts and your perspective on things will begin to change. Please ask questions and join in posting I think you will learn alot.

God Bless,

JL

Wow, that must be really hard. I don't know about the no contact rule when there are children involved.......have you talked to your therapist about this? Sounds like the two of you would really benefit from talking to a professional on setting guildlines for the x to follow? Or call Steve Harley, so many rave about him.....sounds like your situation is much different than most here. Hang in there and know you are doing the right thing.

Just learning-

Thank you for your honest appraisal of the situation. I know that much of the feelings I have are from insecurity. She is very attractive and continues to tell me how much more attractive she is then me. I do my very best to NOT react to her in any way whenever she does this kind of thing and I know that it is all a ploy to her. But when it happens, doggone it I get upset!!! I do believe the my husband and I are good together and we belong together.

I also think you are correct about us needing to talk. I did the initial "blow-up" when I first heard about it. Then I have done the "I can't believe" thing and have dealt with the initial hurt-now it is time for me to tell him exactly what I need from him to feel secure in our marriage again. He tries, he really does. But..and I am sorry for this Just Learning... but he is a man and does not understand female emotions. And on the same note, I need him to tell me what he needs. That one will be tough because he isn't very good at verbalizing. I think I will print out the Needs test you suggested. It might be a good place to start.

Get, and read together, "His Needs, Her Needs for Parents." It will really help you. You might also want to get and read together "Survivng an Affair". Though it happened a long time ago, for you it is fresh. Your pain is no less real because of the intervening time.

Shell,
I echo a lot of the same sentiments as you've read.

Approach this from 2 angles, implement Plan A...start building a stronger, happier marriage, this will help you along the way with your insecurities.

Secondly....as you read here...over and over...no contact is the way to go. Your step son is 12 years old...and you and your H have physical custody. If the EX is unwilling and unable to move on...move on FOR her...your H does not have to deal with her..period...unless there is an emergency concerning the boy.

You answer the phone, she has all contact through you. She'll get tired of having to go through you, and you'll hear from her less and less.

Of course talk this over with your H, and let him know that you want your home, and your family, protected from this type of behavior.

Open yourself up to him, encourage him to be open and honest, and I think you'll both come up winners in the end.

Keep posting...we'll help you along <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

betrayed-

We already do this to a point. One of the problems we had to deal with also is that my husband is a truck driver. We own our own truck so he has to have a cell phone. We kept his number from her for a while, but through their son, she went through his things and got the number, she calls him on his cell phone all the time. I found a call on there from her several weeks ago in which they talked for 28 minutes. I was furious. My husband had told me she called him but said they only talked for a minute or so and he hung up. He lied. We had a long discussion about that and I asked him to think about it from my shoes--I have an affair, I come clean to him--we agree to work it out--but this person is someone that we both have to deal with on a regular basis--then I keep things from him and lie to him about things that have to do with this other person. I asked him to really think about how that would feel to him and I left it at that. He had an overnight run and when he came back we had another talk and he could understand why I was so upset. That was when he called her up (I was sitting right there) and told her that he wanted no more contact with her unless it was an emergency regarding their son. She still calls him about the stupidest things but he tells her if it's not an emergency he has no need to talk with her and hangs up. So I really do think he is trying.

I have always tolerated her and her kooky ways because she was my step sons mom and I didn't want to cause any riffs or make things difficult for him so I kept my mouth shut. But I refuse to do that anymore and I have explained this to my husband and to my stepson and both understand. Example-we were sitting at my stepsons foorball game at the top of the bleachers and there is a walk way behind where we were sitting. She walked up behind my husband pur her arms around his neck and started whispering in his ear about his eye Dr.'s appointment. I stood up and took her arms, as my husband was unwinding them from around his neck, and told her to get her hands off of him. There were several people around us and everyone turned to look. Of course she acted shocked that I would react like that. My H told her that if she had something to say to him say it otherwise get the h--- out of there and keep her hands off of him. She is so infuriating it drives me crazy and it's this kind of stuff all the time. Actually, it's exhausting.

Shell,

Did his affair with exW occur before you two were married? This is important to the things I am going to say.

However, you said a few things I thought I would comment on </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Thank you for your honest appraisal of the situation. I know that much of the feelings I have are from insecurity.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No need to apologize for that. Tell your he this very thing. You two need to work to make your marriage a thing that provides security for both of you. Shell, men like to feel needed. They don't necessary like clingy, but needed and acknowledge is a good thing in most of us guys eyes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> So what you need he can provide and it may well help him as well. Talk to the man.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She is very attractive and continues to tell me how much more attractive she is then me. I do my very best to NOT react to her in any way whenever she does this kind of thing and I know that it is all a ploy to her. But when it happens, doggone it I get upset!!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, I have to tell you a true story. My sister dated a fellow seriously in college, but eventually they went their separate ways. She meets her H to be and they marry. A few years later she gets a call from the college exBF and he want to go to lunch and catch up on things. She tells her H who is reading the newspaper. Now she admits she wanted a reaction, a little jealousy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , but he did not really react. Finally, she asks him "doesn't this bother you?". He puts the paper down, looks at her lovingly, and say..."He had his chance, and he blew it." End of discussion. They have been married I think it is 35 years now.

Don't you love us guys?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> He had his chance. Your H's exW had her chance and she blew it...twice. So all of her talk,all of her put downs, only point to the fact that she is a failure at every level she is a failure. Even her looks cannot overcome the fact that she is a failure. It is time you changed your perspective on this woman and see her as she really is...ugly.

So when she says something as dumb as she says...smile at her, shake your head, and realize you won. No need to get angry. As they say in poker, "the winners laugh and the losers yell 'deal'." You are the winner don't forget that.


[/quote] I do believe the my husband and I are good together and we belong together.[/quote]

Excellent, tell him that, and then tell him that you need his help in dealing with things pertaining to his exW. You two need a plan and a united front. Make some plans but most of all talk with him. I am betting he will do his best to help you, because he loves you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I also think you are correct about us needing to talk. I did the initial "blow-up" when I first heard about it. Then I have done the "I can't believe" thing and have dealt with the initial hurt-now it is time for me to tell him exactly what I need from him to feel secure in our marriage again.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's a big YUP! Shell, you two need to talk, and you need to watch his actions. Are they consistent with what he says these days? If so, you two are heading in the right direction.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He tries, he really does. But..and I am sorry for this Just Learning... but he is a man and does not understand female emotions. And on the same note, I need him to tell me what he needs.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Doesn't understand female emotions?????? I resemble that remark young lady. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Worse he does understand more than you think but cannot express it. You see he has been cheated on and he knows what he felt. Get him to talk about his feelings with regard to that, and then ask him what he thinks you feel. You have already said he really wanted to keep the family together for the kid/kids. THat is really a good thing, and I suspect it was a big motivator in what he did. It does not excuse him, but frankly it is NOT a rejection of you or even a comparison to her. It was about the kids and trying to hold a marriage or rebuild a marriage. Frankly, in many respects this shows very good tendencies on his part.

Yes, I am aware that you are hurt, but I think you have a lot to work with in this regard, because of the particular circumstances.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> That one will be tough because he isn't very good at verbalizing. I think I will print out the Needs test you suggested. It might be a good place to start.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ah, go see if you can find the book "Men made easy" I think is the title. The author has the last name of "Oh". It is an easy read, but it will give you insight into dealing with men. I bought it because the title made me laugh. She makes a very good point to consider when talking to him.

Us guys do NOT talk about our emotions very much, and "feelings"???? You hava got to be kidding, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> So, that means that the speech patterns have not been built up to express what we feel. Women on the other had talk about these things alot, so they have developed the speech patterns necessary to easily express what they feel.

THe suggestion is if you ask him a question about feelings, sit there. Don't answer it for him, don't ask another question,just be quiet and sit. It may take a minute perhaps more, and it will feel like an hour but sit there until he answers. If he is confused he will ask a clarifying question. Most of the time when a woman asks a man such a question, they pause for about 10 seconds, and then start putting words in his mouth or start asking more questions, or have some sort of an emotional output.

Ask him and then sit there until he answers. As you get him talking more, you will see that he will become more comfortable with it as the speech patterns are developed. Further,if you ask him something very deep, accept the answer, don't go off on him, or you will never hear it again.

Even if it hurts you, thank him for his honest and for his thoughts. This is especially true of emotional issues. He won't talk if he thinks you are going to cry. Us guys hate to see women cry. If it hurts you, just suck it up, smile and thank him. The LATER go to him and ask him some clarifying questions and mention that some of that information really hurt and why. State it in the "I feel this when you say that" and then discuss it. He will respond to this Shell.

Must go, but I hope something I have said will help.

God Bless,

JL

PS: When she says tacky things to you, has it occured to you that she is really trying to get to her exH? He is happy with you, she is NOT happy with anything.

<small>[ October 22, 2004, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

Yes-this affair happened before we were married. He said that is why he waited so long before asking me was because he knew if I found out it would tear me apart. (my ex had several affairs/one night stands etc)

Everything you say makes sense and actually I have said just about the same things to myself. I have been through so much counseling and therapy (through my first marriage) I could almost council others. But it's that little nag in the back of my head that keeps whispering in my ear and shutting off my common sense.

I really appreciate your words of wisdom.

Shell,

I think you are going to be an excellent addition to this site. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> YOu can help, and yes it is a pain to deal with this stuff. Keep talking to him. I think you did a good job of explaining this to him in a way he understood. You are doing well, don't panic. It seems to me SHE is the one that lost and has not realized it.

God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">THe suggestion is if you ask him a question about feelings, sit there. Don't answer it for him, don't ask another question,just be quiet and sit. It may take a minute perhaps more, and it will feel like an hour but sit there until he answers. If he is confused he will ask a clarifying question. Most of the time when a woman asks a man such a question, they pause for about 10 seconds, and then start putting words in his mouth or start asking more questions, or have some sort of an emotional output.

Ask him and then sit there until he answers </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OMG...what insight ! I can't tell you HOW true this statement IS..and I never really GOT it until JL put it into such elegant words !!!!

As part of "our recovery plan"...one thing my H identified for ME..was that I am too hasty if I ask him a question, or we're having a discussion. He said that I become impatient, because he's trying to put his thought into words..and then I interrupt...start talking FOR him...and before you know it..he feels like I only want to HEAR what I want him to say...so what is the point anyway !!

We got this from the EN questionnaires by the way...my H #1 need is conversation... WHO KNEW ?!?

I thought we we're having plenty of good conversations..when in reality..I was the only one really talking for everyone !


Great post JL ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />