MP,

My H said to me the other day, "I know when you quit your job to stay at home with the babies you put your trust in me to provide for our whole family and to take care of all of us. You made such a huge sacrifice and I wasn't mature enough to handle my end of the deal and I'm sorry." It is true too. From the research I have done about OW, she has filed about 5 restraining orders on men from her past. She could have caused H plenty of problems and jeopardized his career, which in turn would have further jeopardized his M.

I have never, ever been a jealous or suspicious person in my marriage or in any of my previous relationships. Since my H's A however, I question everything he says, ponder his every move, analyze every ulterior motive... it is no way to live. Just this morning he decided to take our 4 year old with him to run some errands since I'm babysitting for my sister. He walked past me in the kitchen and I thought I smelled cologne and immediately bells in my head started going off. I asked him about it and he went in the bathroom and brought out a new deoderant (that was the new smell). I told him, "This is no way to live. I've never lived my life this way. I can't stand not being able to trust you. You've destroyed that and I don't know what is left without trust. I'd rather start over with someone new and trust them until they show me that I can't, than to stay with you and live day to day wondering what you're really doing and what is the truth and what is a lie."

Funny thing is, we don't fight like we used to (or like I used to, I guess I should say, b/c I was always the one getting mad at him for something he would do, or not do or say or not say). He has changed all of those behaviors that over 10 years drove me completely insane
(and slowly killed the love and respect I felt for him). What a conundrum! He was too stubborn to change (which killed my love and respect for him) which made me argue and fight with him (which caused him to shut down and lose love and respect for me) which led to his A. The A in turn made him realize what really mattered to him and that he did in fact love me and want his M. Now he is everything I ever wanted pre-A, but the damage done by the A may be insurmountable!

I have so much resentment too (for what my life might have been). I had a very good career. I left all of that behind to be a SAHM. Now I may have a H who will dump me when I am 50+ for a 25 year old and I'll have to start all over from scratch with no nest egg, no 401K, nothing b/c I put my trust in the wrong person!

H and I are very different. I had my JD when we met and he is still working on getting his B.S. (which is where he met OW). So, in effect I screwed myself by encouraging H to better himself by getting a college education where he in turn screwed a classmate! H and I were raised differently, different backgrounds, different belief systems, etc...

I am a cautious person. I think things through before I take any course of action. H is impulsive. H has trouble thinking about all of the consequences of a potential course of action before he does something. He doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes. That is very troublesome and has always been so.

Actually the above paragraph makes me laugh now, b/c were I as cautious as I pride myself on being, I woudn't have married H to begin with! :-/

-SNS

<small>[ March 08, 2005, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: Still-n-Shock ]</small>

hi SNS - I want to take the second and third paragraph of what you just wrote and send it right back to you. Amazing, the similarities. I was always the one getting mad and nitpicking. And now, he is willing to change all the things I would get annoyed at and I just feel like it is too late. There isn't an ounce of trust left anymore. I can't stand the suspicion. It is driving me INSANE! I can give ex. after ex. The dessert story the other night, then he bought me a rose out of nowhere the other day and I was convinced it was because he was at the florist sending her flowers, we were all at dinner last night and he walked out to his car for a second. I actually followed him out there - turns out he was taking a pill for his stomach. Of course I thought he was on the phone. You are right, this is no way to live.

Did your H resent the fact that you had more education. While my H had a college degree he had no further degrees. I wonder if it has anything to do with their feelings of inadequacy. Just like you pushed yours to go to school and that's where the A started, I pushed mine to agree to all the travel to further his career and that's where his started. How ironic!

Right now my entire family is at a football party. I actually left saying I had to go do something for my mom just so I wouldn't have to be in the same place as him. When I told him prior to the party that I wasn't staying he tried to use the guilt trip - That's nice to do to your kids. Meanwhile, my kids won't notice since they are with 15 other kids. I can't stand what this has to done to me and to us.

By the way, I tried to call the guy's company today to get his personal email so it wouldn't just go to the company - he answered the phone himself when I called so I hung up. Maybe I will try again on Monday when perhaps there is a receptionist there. Also, I am about to go onto Net Detective. I had a computer glitch last night when I tried it - so I will do it now.

My MC gave me an exercise to try last time we were there. It doesn't seem to work for me, but maybe you could use it. Instead of thinking about it all day long - give yourself 10 minutes of alone time each day. Use that time to say, do or write all the things that you are thinking about. Then during the rest of the day, try to push it out of your mind knowing you will have time to do it later. Worth a shot if you feel like it.

Well - once again, I have rambled enough. Thank goodness for my friends at MB. Have a good night. MP

Hey MP,

Thanks for the exercise, I'll try it (couldn't hurt)! Hope you're doing okay today. -SNS

<small>[ March 08, 2005, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: Still-n-Shock ]</small>

hi there - how are you doing? I am okay, things are a little quieter around here. I really don't know why they go in these cycles, but they do. I don't know how I am able to control my emotions at some points and not at others. I think a shrink would be able to help me with that one.

I subscribed to that Net Detective. Not only did they not have her name, they couldn't locate her by her cell phone # either. So unfortunately I got nowhere with that. I'm afraid to call that guy's company again in case he has caller ID which everybody does. Any other ideas?

Well I finally got the kids off to school so I am going to take advantage of a free day. Talk to you soon. MP

Hi MP,

There are sites that will take a cell phone number and give you a billing address, etc... for as little as $7.95. Just type in "cell phone search" in your search engine. There is a reverse phone directory that may be able to locate it for free (you may want to try that one first). Did you look at the other site I mentioned in my last post? :-(

I'm glad you are feeling and doing better. Wish I could say the same for myself. Little suspicious things have happened over the last few days that eventually turn out to be nothing, but the mistrust and doubt wears on my nerves. I don't like having to waste time checking out his story, etc...

Oh, and as for Net Detective, I didn't like it at first and thought about canceling my subscription, but the more I played around on it the more information I was able to dig up. That is where I found out about all of the Restraining Orders, Paternity Suits, etc...

Hope you have a nice day! -SNS

hey there - thanks again for the info. I will do some more digging. I seemed to have gotten a virus on my computer so it is not working great. I will try the search. He is so frustrated with me being so suspicious - but I can't help it. Like you said, these things turn out to be nothing, but you can't help but wonder.
Things are not so quiet anymore. It seems I can't go more than a day without it all erupting. I told him the other night I wanted a divorce and nothing was going to change my mind. I just can't live with him forever knowing what I know. As much as I would like to stay together for the kids, I told him I don't love him and don't know that I ever will. I offered him a co-existing situation so that we would be together for the kids, but he didn't respond. I don't even know if I would live throught that, but it is something to think about. Our friends are leaving today, so we will see how our life gets back after that. It's been a little different because there were house guests.
He brought me his cell phone records for the past 5 months, but I didn't even look at them. I figure if he's handing them over, there is nothing on them. I'm sure she is calling from her cell to his work # if there is any communication at all. I guess even he wouldn't be stupid enough to have it on his cell. Anyway, that's it from here. Life stinks! Hope yours is better. MP

Hi SNS and MP,

Im new here; however found out 2 years ago. H had A with coworker. Long story short, he left his job because of it, we moved out of state so he could take another position, and we are working on our marriage. That was 2 yrs ago. I still do not trust anything about him even though he tries so hard every day now that he loves me, and only me. The cologne issue really got me. I do the same thing. I never thought that he would cheat on me and I was never a jealous person. Now, I smell his clothes when he comes home, go thru his pants, check his cell, whatever it takes. HIs A went on for almost 2 yrs under my nose, and I did not have a clue!(I felt like the biggest fool!) The OW was unstable and when he tried to end the A, she would not hear of it and for almost 2 years, chased, harrassed and threatened. It was a nightmare for him so he told counselor and verified by other coworkers. I guess the grass is not always greener on the other side, is it! I was going thru fertility at the time I found out, buying a new home, and I was completely shocked and devestated. I was a very trusting person, too trusting. Now, not only do I mistrust him, I found myself doubting my judgement about others. This was a BIG WAKEUP CALL for me, and even when I feel foolish about rummaging through this things, or following him around, I remember what he did. It makes me very angry that I have had to become this type of person, and this whole deal has turned my life inside out, but I am hoping things will eventually get better, and I will once again come to trust him! God willing! Good luck!

MP,

I am sorry that yo uare struggling. I know how you feel, believe me. I've tried hard to keep an even keel. It's not always easy to do, though. Sometimes, I think that I am working so hard to keep my feelings in check because I know that if I let them go..I will fall completely apart.

I am sorry to hear that you are thinking about a divorce. What would the "co-existence" that you mentioned be like? Do you mean that you would live in the same house...but there would be no intimacy? How did you find out about the A, by the way? Were there problems that you could identify in your marriage prior to the A?

You've asked me before about my feelings on divorce. Basically, I think I feel the way I do because I can see how I was partly responsible for problems in our marriage that fed my wife's decision to have an affair. I have to try to temper my anger with that recognition. But...that's not an absolute. If I found out that my wife had re-established contact with the OM, for instance, or if she has another...the marriage will be over.

Anyway, I hope things get better for you soon. You have a lot to deal with, I know. Give my regards to your mom. I will keep her in my prayers.

MP,

I'm very sorry you're feeling hopeless. I know the feeling well. Just remember what you are feeling may not last, especially now that your company has left and everyone can let their guard down a little. That could not have been easy, no matter how close friends they were, having them living with you (coupled with your mom's illness) while trying to come to terms with your H's affair.

It might not be fair to you, your children or all of the years you've invested in your M to make such a huge, life altering decision right now. Believe me, I know how you feel, I know when you get the feeling to divorce it courses through your veins and feels 100% like the absolute only way to go and keep your dignity and sanity, but what is a little more time really in the big scheme of things? Who is to say how you will feel 2 years from D-Day? You know I have read 1000 times over that is really takes about two years to truly get over an affair. What is two years when you have 3 children and you've been married how many years??? Besides, 6 months have already passed and it seems like a few weeks at most doesn't it?

Does all of this sound funny coming from me? Maybe I can bring you up when you're down b/c you always do that for me. I just think that out of all of us, you've had so much more to deal with on top of the A (company living in your house, your mom's serious illness and the fact that your H was away traveling on business when the A occurred so you were essentially a single parent too)! I've read that like 80% of people who divorce due to an affair later regret their decision and feel that they rushed into the D.

Think of it this way, if after two years you take inventory of your feelings and there is an abiding conviction that you should divorce, then you can proceed with a clear conscience, knowing you aren't rushing into anything and knowing you aren't acting out of anger or hurt. Then you will never look back. You can spend the next year and a half getting yourself prepared for the next phase of your life. Go to IC if you'd like so you don't carry any baggage with you when you leave. Think about what you will do career wise, etc... Atleast this way you won't feel like you're wasting the time.

Is there anything your H could do that he hasn't done that might help you in the recovery process? What if he agreed to the polygraph? I can see what you mean about not even looking at his cell phone records (ofcourse they're not going to willingly show anything incriminating). I went through H's work car yesterday looking for a calling card or perhaps another secret cell phone (or any other evidence for that matter). I look in his wallet occassionally too. I've read that they resort to calling cards or secret cell phones once they're busted with the cell phones. I don't think my H has had anything to do with OW since he broke it off, but who the heck knows.

Andrew, your point about feeling you should give it a try b/c you can see your role in the break down of the marriage pre-affair rings very true for me. Our marriage was in bad shape, ripe for an affair. Alot of the stress on our marriage was beyond our control, but I certainly had my faults. I don't agree with or condone infidelity no matter what, but I see where b/c of the state of our M, my H was vulnerable to an A. My H was a sitting duck. If it hadn't been this OW it would have been another OW...the 1st woman to show him any attention and/or affection and he would have cheated.

Welcome Miranda. Since you're at the 2 year mark perhaps you can share with us whether it is true or not what I've read about it taking 2 years post D-Day to truly recover? I realize some people never recover, but since you're further down the road than we are, what is your take on it? MP and I had a good spell but seemed to take a nose dive when we hit the 6 month marker?

-SNS

<small>[ March 08, 2005, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: Still-n-Shock ]</small>

Hi SNS,

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but even after 2 yrs, I still question whether to stay or go. I cannot listen to a song or watch a tv program that involves infidelity w/out losing it. The lines of communication have opened up which is a positive thing; however, the true feeling of trust is still not there. I still think of the 2 of them together on occasion, and it still makes me cry. If I am reminded of the affair in any way, I become angry again, and want the big "D". I look at him differently now; sometimes in a positive light and sometimes like I don't even know him anymore, and I wonder what he is thinking all of the time now. Before I never noticed, and sadly didn't really care. I was totally shocked by his affair, but after thinking over the yrs, there were signs, I just chose to ignore them; or did not really care. Now, I notice everything (try to), but sometimes I just get tired of the whole game and feel that if it is going to happen again, there is nothing that I can do to prevent it; more than I am doing now. The fact that it may happen again is what really keeps me on my toes. As the saying goes "Shame on you if you fool me once, and Shame on me if you fool me twice". Things can either get better or get worse. It all depends on the people involved. I am a true heart and soul type of person, so this is extremely difficult for me. I swore in the past, if this had ever happened to ME as it has to others, I would simply walk away and never look back. Wake-up call! No one really knows what to do when it happens to them. Just the fact that you decided to stay is a major hurdle in itself(says my counselor), if you have come this far and you are still on the fence, then you are not ready to call it quits. When you truly feel the need to go, you will go! If you want to make it work; unfortunately, the wounded party seems to be the one that has to do most of the work. Unfair!, but life is not fair. Hope this helps!

Hi everyone - Once again, I feel like I could be writing the words you are all writing. Isn't it really crazy that all of us, who don't even know each other, seem to understand one another better than our own spouses???
I just printed out your posts because I feel like I need to read and re-read them.

Welcome Miranda - you are just what we were looking for. Someone who was further down the road than we were. It is so interesting to hear your take on the whole situation. I feel as if in 2 years I will be exactly where you are. Trying to make it work, but never really trusting. I too used to say that if this ever happened to me, I'd walk. It is so true that you never know what you will do until in a situation. I also agree that my marriage had signs, and as much as I was SHOCKED by the A, I don't know if I really cared too much by what was happening in our married life. I also know that what you are saying about D is true. When I am truly ready to go, I will. I guess I am not really there just yet. Maybe you can tell me, how do you not let every trigger turn into a major slip in the recovery process? That is my biggest problem right now. As soon as things are good for a short while, something will trigger me and it all goes bad again. That info would be really helpful and much appreciated.

Andrew - I admire you so. Although I too am willing to recognize that I am partly responsible for his decision to have an A, I cannot temper my anger with that. I still feel so strongly that he took the wrong route and that I don't ever have to forgive him, even if I am partially to blame. I don't think I would have ever gone down the path he chose.
Mom is doing well - went to visit early today because we are having a BIG snowstorm here today. I am not a religious person, so I like knowing she is in your prayers. How is everything with you and your W lately? I hope things are going well. Keep me posted.

SNS - I know this feeling of hopelessness will not last. It already has calmed down. That's after I told him to leave and threw all his clothes on the closet floor. Of course he broke down then and every time he does, I guess somewhere deep down I feel something. I have really become a crazy person. When in my life would I have ever emptied a perfectly neat closet? I know that I have a lot of stuff on top of the A, hopefully I can find a way to separate it. Where did you read about the two year mark and the regretting the D decision? I have never heard that. According to Miranda, we will still feel this suspicious and anxious 2 years down the road.

I know it is not fair to my children, and they are by far the most important things in the world to me. But is it fair for them to see the turmoil? We are pretty good about hiding it, but I am sure my 10 year old can pick up on some things.

Thanks for the encouragement. It always seems we are on opposite emotional schedules. It's a good thing so we can give each other pep talks when needed. Hopefully Miranda can navigate a little for us down the road. I don't know if there is anything H can do to help the recovery. Is there anything you have asked of yours that seems to have worked. I'll take any advice you have.

Hope you all have a good (peaceful) weekend. As always, thanks for your insightful thoughts and wisdom. I'm off to shovel. MP

MP64,

I wish I had all the answers or a great deal of wisdom, because if I did, I would use it for myself. The fact is, I still get very angry, and certain instances do trigger my anger. It just comes out of nowhere. I get angry all over again and feel that I am back to square one.It is sort of like a ride that you can never get off! I take one day at a time. As difficult as it is because we are the wounded party, each time I get really angry with my H, I try to put myself in his shoes, and try to feel what he is feeling so that I can try to think before I speak. Words can be the most deadly weapon of all. HOwever, it is so hard when you are feeling lack of self esteem. You want the person who caused you the pain to feel the pain you are feeling. When they seem guilty; you feel vindicated for some reason. However, when they seem aloof and possibly even happy, you wonder "why should they be happy right now, when I am in so much pain". Looking from their point of view, it is almost like "They cannot win". And that is somewhat true to some extent. Of course they should feel guilty for their actions, but not guilty for their feelings that lead to those actions. It takes two to create a marriage and two to ruin it, but it only takes one to bring it to a whole new level, and that is what your H did. The only thing that HE can do right now is to express that he was wrong in his actions, and he feels sorrow for the pain that he has caused you. He then needs to work at winning back your trust. There is no set of rules to follow as we are all different individuals with different issues and different personalities. It is the little things that happen between you on a day to day basis such as: calling you once or twice a day to say "hello", "I love you", letting you know what goes on his day, basically including you in his life (good and bad). Always remember that at this time "Actions speak louder than words". Just because a duck can bark; does not mean it is a dog! if you catch my meaning. It may be difficult for him to try to fulfill your needs through words and affection, if he does not have a welcoming audience. The OW was always welcoming; however, she did not have to live with the day to day stresses of the marriage; you do, and he needs to understand that. I am sure you would be exciting and welcoming too, if you did not have the other responsibilities, and you occasionally got together for a little tryst. Unfortunately, there is not much that he can do to erase what he did or the pain that he caused you. What you both can do is let go of the relationship you had in the past, work towards the new one. Think of this as a whole new beginning. You both just met for the first time and like in the beginning, you want to learn about each other, seek each other's approval, and simply make a new friend. I sincerely believe that you cannot be lovers without being true friends. If he is willing to do this and truly wants to do this, you will recognize the sincerity. If he is not willing or you are not willing, then without both parties 100 percent involved, it simply cannot work. Start by arranging one night for just the two of you to sit and talk to each other; however, leave the affair out of the conversation for one night. Focus on just the two of you. Get to know each other; really know each other like you have never met. Sincerely look at each other and try to notice the small things as if you were on a first date(dress up, make yourself feel beautiful, sexy and exciting) watch to see if he notices; notice him; from his smile to his mannerisms and how he relates to you. The one thing I learned through counseling is that you need to talk, and find out what you need from each other to feel complete in this relationship. ex."what can I do to make you feel good about you and about us" Affairs create an illusion; a fantasy; not reality. Make reality more exciting! You need to make him feel comfortable enough with you that he does not need to hold anything back, and the same for you. He needs to make you feel worthy, at this time more than anything. If you can try that and he sincerely wants to do this as well; then you just may be able to start a whole new love affair. If he does sincerely try, you cannot keep setting him back. If you feel one of those horrible thoughts coming into your mind, then try to distract yourself whether it be with your children, exercise, housecleaning, or simply sit in front of the mirror and tell yourself over and over again "You are a beautiful person and if I find it difficult to trust my husband or others, at least I can trust myself" Start thinking of funny things about your H or your life that makes you laugh, or remember something special that he did for you or some of the things about him that made you fall in love with him in the first place. Do this, until you are able to push the negative things out of your mind. If you cannot do that, sit down and talk to him about what you are feeling (choose words carefully however; try to leave anger out of the mix)and the insecurities you have so that when he comes home and sees that sorrowful or angry look on your face, he does not have to wonder what he did; TELL HIM! But always remember, you are not a doormat either. If at any point, you truly feel that he is not making any effort whatsoever, face the reality of the situation and make decisions based on that. You need to be in a secure place with yourself before you make any rash decisions about Divorce or anything else. Right now, you are inbetween emotion and reality (on the fence!) so any decision you make right now may not be well thought out. Wait until you find peace with yourself and then you make the right decision that is right for you!! Sorry for babbling, but helping you is helping me! Let me know how things work out for you.

Hug from me to you!

Miranda

MP,

By the way, on a lighter note. Don't think your crazy for throwing his clothes on the floor and kicking him out. I STILL DO THAT! Although now, afterwards I feel guility and fold them for him and put them away again!HA!. And you thought you were nuts!!

Miranda - Thank you so much for that beautiful note. I know you are right in everything you wrote and amazingly so, I agree with everything you say. I just hope I can put it into action. It seems so logical and reasonable to do just what you are saying, and some days I can. But it's those other days where no matter what he does, there is no winning. He has basically given 110% since D-Day and it has been met with hardly any acknowledgement or appreciation.

I always wonder if he stops doing it if I will then start wanting him more. You know the old "it's more fun to chase" and "you want what you can't have". Sort of like when we were teenagers and young adults. I always think what if he finally gets fed up with the anger and moods and does walk. Will I want him more then? Did you ever experience that in your recovery? So far, it's been all about my H making it up to me, but I really do wonder if my tune would change.

I'm also curious if any of your friends/family knew about the A? Besides our MC, there are 2 sets of friends that I told. Luckily, I didn't tell anybody else, because right now, I find it hard to face them. As good as it felt telling them and ratting him out, I now feel embarrassed in front of them. i.e. They know he slept with someone else, they think I wasn't a good enough wife. I'm sure they are pulling for us to stay together, but I feel foolish. How do you deal with that?

I feel badly that you are further along than we are, but I hope helping us helps you. I feel we can all learn from each other. You have certainly had a long run of this. 2 years of the A, and then 2 years post D-Day. You must be a very strong person. Anyway, thanks again for the comfort and advice. I appreciate it all. Talk to you soon. MP

Hello everyone,

Not much to update, but wanted to check in. H and I are going out to dinner tonight. I'm going to try to do some of the things Miranda suggested - treat it like a date, no A talk. That will be hard b/c it is one of the few times we will actually be alone and face to face (away from the kids) where we could actually talk. I thought about asking him to complete the EN questionaire, but I don't think he'd want to do that at that time. We never have any alone time. He is working 3-11 pm now, so we're like two ships passing in the night. It just so happens today he gets off around 5:00 p.m., so my Mom is babysitting so we can go to dinner.

I think the worst thing I do is LB. When I ask him what EN's the OW fulfilled, he says, "Well, she never said anything negative." Ofcourse, how could she? She didn't really know him. She hasn't lived with him for 10 years and he hasn't betrayed her, disappointed her, lied to her, etc... They had romantic, secret 30 minute meetings where she always looked her best and told him exactly what he wanted to hear.

MP, I know what you mean about how would we actually feel if our H's finally said enough is enough, I want out. Ofcourse we'd feel panic and terror and wonder if we wanted them back. We'd feel love and feel like we'd made a horrible mistake. We'd feel like we'd never find anyone and that we'd be alone forever. None of that would be true, but we'd feel it with such intensity it would scare the hell out of us and cause us to do crazy and irrational things. I know this b/c prior to my H, I had long term relationships (7 years, 5 years) and even though I wanted out and knew the relationship should end (and I was the one that ended both) I had those feelings of panic afterwards when the guy would give up trying to win me back and I would think, "What have I done? Maybe it wasn't so bad?".

We've been doing okay lately. Since D-Day we've been much beetr than we are now (when we were in our honeymoon stage) and we've been much worse (when the anger really rears its ugly head). Right now I'd say it is a plateau, like cruising on auto-pilot.

I can see me being like Miranda and still struggling with this at the 2 year mark. That scares me a bit. But hey, it is a life shattering, life-altering event! -SNS

hi there - I'm glad you are getting a chance to go out tonight. I can't recall - does your mother know about the A? It is hard not to talk about it while you and your H are out together. It's the same here, we never have any alone time. The only good thing is if you do talk about it, you can't get crazy since you will be in a public place.

All I wish is that these OW could spend a day in our shoes. Taking care of the house, kids, meals, etc. The A is not real life. For your H, it was short romantic meetings. Mine was in a hotel for 5 months. The one time they were in NY together, they didn't even go to her apt. They went to a hotel because she said her place was a mess. I guess she doesn't get up every morning, make 4 beds, clean the bathrooms . . . I'm sure my H and I would have had fun every day too if I didn't have those responsibilities.

I also envision myself just as Miranda is 2 years down the road. Being with him, but always being suspicious and cautious. I can't really see how that would ever change. My H thanked me last night because the last few days have been calmer. I said you're welcome but what I felt like screaming was "it's calmer because I'm too damn tired to fight anymore - it's not that I'm any less angry, I just need a break from it all." What I also wanted to say was I have tons of TIVO shows to watch and right now that is more important than you. Fortunately, I didn't and we all slept better.

Have fun tonight - Let us know how it goes. MP

MP,

To answer you ? about wanting H more if he turns the other cheek. Absolutely; not uncommon. My H and I have been together since I was 20, married for twelve of those years. Noticed M going down the tubes long before H's A. In fact, I asked for D on many occasions, was just not connecting anymore. He refused to leave, stated he loved me too much and he would work on M. Did not help, He was unhappy, I was unhappy, ultimately, He had affair. I used to say dumb things to myself like "Maybe he will have an A and give me a good reason to leave him and not feel guilty". Well, he did! Strange thing is that I was stunned, and looking back, I should not have been. Crazy as it sounds, the thought of someone else trying to take him from me, made me want him more! I was afraid this was the only reason that I was working on my M later, and lowered my self esteem (So I thought after IC) to stay w/ him. Later, I found that was not the case. I truly loved him, and just forgot that fact! Sometimes you need a Wake-UP call. Wish it had been another phone ringing!LOL. People he worked with knew about A, I did not know people he worked with; but I still felt like a fool. One person knew that worked with him, who happened to be the son of friends thru family. I remember being at their house on a couple of occasions with my H, and thinking back, what a fool I must have looked like. Apparently, they had no idea either (so they say), but not close enough to me or situation to tell. It has been a rough road, and it does not seem like 2 yrs have gone by. It still feels like yesterday to me. I get nervous because I think, wow!, I'm 37 years old, and half of my life was spent in the dark. So much time wasted. I am afraid to stay with him and get nowhere, and waste even more time, when I am young enough to meet someone else and have a happy life, rather than waste too much time, look back, and say "what did I do". But when I try to imagine my life without him, it seems empty, and I think, where he would be without me in his life (almost like soul mates who just got lost for a bit, but found each other again). We were best friends as well as lovers. Something went wrong and neither one of us knew how to address it or fix the problem. My best advice to anyone is "do not waste a single moment in your life assuming anything". Life is too short. Attack things head on without hesitation, so they do not come back to bite in you in the rearend later. The bite could be much more damaging at that point.

"There is no such thing in anyone's life as an unimportant day!"

Keep the faith!!

Sorry for babbling, but I forgot about the "chasing issue". A word of advice (not from an expert, only someone who has been there)! I had alot of MALE friends (and I stress FRIENDS)growing up, and they always used to say that they "love a good chase", do not care for overly aggressive woman; only when sex is involved. You like your S to chase you now because you want proof that you still matter(it is an ego thing) Been there; done that! Keep in mind that they will only chase for so long, grow weary of it, and ultimately feel defeated! Like a gift from the gods, along comes the OW or OM. They do not judge, demand anything, or run! You are absolutely right! Of course they do not, they do not have to live with him or her. A are not always about sharing lives and building a future. It is a fantasy! Not reality! I guarantee, if they had left their spouses for the OP, 9 times out of 10, it never would work. The OP will not always put their best foot forward, eventually they will want and demand! Surprise, they are not much different from spouse. If you continue to push H away, and make him chase, eventually he will grow weary and feel defeated; and run right back into the arms of the OW or someone new. Find proof in other ways that your H sincerely loves you and learn to love yourself enough now that you did not need his approval or anyone else's to heal your broken heart. Good luck and Keep in touch and let me know how things work out!

Hello all,

Date night was nice. We just had time to go out to dinner, no movie or anytime afterwards b/c my Mom wasn't feeling well, but it was nice all the same. I decided not to discuss anything negative during our meal. I just wanted it to be pleasant. Yes, my Mom knows about the A.

I wonder if my internal compass, my woman's intuition, my gut instinct are all totally off kilter since H's betrayal. I mean, do I have an uneasy feeling in the pit of my stomach b/c something is going on behind my back? or is it because there are still facts about the A that are kept hidden from me? or am I just in a perpetual state of "fight or flight" and I can't trust my own feelings or judgment any more???????

I think this is the worst part of it for me now - living in a constant state of uncertainty, but I keep telling myself there are no guarantees in life. I just wish I could truly know when to feel alarmed and when to know the feeling was just needless worry due to the A. H is still so very remorseful and is still really giving it 110% around here, I just feel detached from him in so many ways. In spite of all of this however, I do think we're making progress (slowly but surely). I just don't want to ever have to face anything like this ever again for as long as I live. I can tell the stress is really starting to take its toll, my hair seems to be falling out by the handful everytime I take a shower.

-SNS

hi everyone - Hope you all had a nice weekend. Miranda - I truly feel like you are me talking in 2 years from now. I could be giving this advice to a new person looking for help. Just curious, do you have children, I don't think I saw that mentioned anywhere. I only ask because I know for me (and SNS) we both feel strongly about making this work beause of the kids.

I spent most of today checking his computer, blackberry . . . it is such a waste of time because I know I will find nothing there. I think I feel if I do at least I could leave knowing I gave him a second chance and he still blew it.

How did you realize you truly loved your H at some point? I feel as if my thoughts can't even get that far to decide if I do or don't. Whenever I spend quiet time really thinking, I always get stuck very quickly in "How could he have done this to me?" Then I just get angry and don't really think any further into the future or get to my real feelings. I think I was never very good at getting too deep, it's not my strongpoint. I also try to get to the learning to love myself enough, but that is hard to do right now.

As SNS said, this is really taking its toll. I turned 40 this year and used to look pretty young. I feel like I have aged 10 years in the past 6 months. I look awful, have gained weight, don't sleep well anymore. It amazes me the physical reaction your body has to stress. I never really experienced that before in my life. Or if I did, I wasn't aware that it was directly related to a stressful event.

SNS - glad you had a nice dinner out. I wish I could answer you about your gut feeling. I feel the same. Your H and mine sound similar in that they are really trying. The likelihood is great that they are not cheating, but how do you know for sure. I don't know if all the checking in the world would prove anything. I really don't know if your state of uncertainty will end. Hopefully, it will just die down bit by bit.

If I can get a little personal, I would love to ask you guys a question. One thing that I notice happening is that after each intimate encounter, a few days later I start to get crazy, angry, *****y. My MC said it's probably because I feel that I have let my guard down and don't want to become too vulnerable, so I start the war again. Have either of you experienced that at all? I guess it's because I can't imagine ever truly trusting him, and like you said, I don't ever want this to happen again.

Well - I am tired (as always these days) so I will speak to you soon. MP