My H and I have been together for 13 yrs. I was previously married at a young age and have two children from the 1st disaster.

Meet my H through friends. We dated for six years before we got pregnant with our S. He moved in with me when I was five months pregnant with our S.

He did not want his family to know about the baby or my other children. Then he decides when I was eight months pregnant that we should get married. Well we did that.

Everything seemed to be great until we purchased a home. At which time H decided that he would quit his job because he needed a break from working. He took up throwing darts seven nights a week, drinking all the time. I held down the fort (as my grandma would say) working all the time and even overtime to get the bills paid. He refused to watch the baby so I can go to work, had to find alternative care.

He never spends birthdays or holidays with us. He always says he is not into that kind of thing. He makes references to not liking people and hates communicating with people. Then why spend everyday in a bar?

So after three years of struggling to keep my M going I filed for divorce (but could not go through with it) we were separated for two years but still communicating about the children daily.

Then last November he decided that he wants his family back. Which made me very happy, but after a few months he started to behave like he did before after moving back with him he quit his job. Would not pick the children up from school, which add another expense for aftercare costs.

I had a gut feeling that something was going on. So I went and purchased a PC survellience for our home computer. Not six hours after installing it, I had him dead to rights about his A (D-day 10-7-04) After confronting him about it he told me "HIS RELATIONSHIPS WERE NONE OF MY BUSINESS"

Needless to say that set me off, not eating, not sleeping worrying about the kids finding out. Him sleeping on the couch. I am not a screamer so I tried to calmly think this situation through and find another approach to speak with him about this matter.

Then my D was in the car with me two weeks ago and asked me if "daddy had a girlfriend because he sure did not love us anymore" I believe I nearly crashed the car. I advised her that daddy has been having a tough time with some issues that he just doesn't want to talk about right now and that he loves Her and Her siblings very much. Needless to say she caught his conversation two days later with this woman while she was picking up the phone to call her friend. She has these crying spells quite often - her teacher keeps calling me. I keep trying to comfort her but it is not working. She wants me to kick him out, I have to keep reminding her that we moved into his apt.

Then on 10-11-04 I started getting emails from his friends with details of there get togethers. I mean graphic details.

I again confronted him and he said it has been on and off for close to three years and that the others really did not count. WHAT THE H*** DOES THAT MEAN! Others - jesus my life did a complete 360 in less then two seconds.

Now he is flaunting this relationship right in front of me, friends and family.

I keep thinking that he will out grow it. I must be crazy.

Everytime I try to bring up the subject of what we are going to do about this he states "sorry can't talk got a date" He asked me to just ride it out until he is done. What do I look like a roller coaster waiting for the ride to stop.

Anyway, I have been trying to keep my self busy with the children and work, but am seriously considering divorce not just for my own peace of mind but that of my children. And no we never argue in front of the kids.

When he sees or hears me crying he laughs and tells me to buck up, I will get use to it.

See I don't have a fear of being alone, because

1. I am sucessful at my job and

2. I have my children.

But I hate feeling like a failure.

At first I blamed myself for this A - do to my always asking if he is going to get a job. Why he doesn't help out with the children? Why we never spend any time together. His answers to that was "well men have supported women for centuries now it is time for the women to give back" I said Hello I was sucessful before you came along - what makes you think I wanted anything from you other then your love and support. He told me love was a state of mind and people get over it.

Then he accused me of being the one having an affair. I asked him what he was drinking and to kindly share since I would like to be as delusional as he is." I don't have time to take a decent shower never mind have an affair.

So my reason for posting this was to get some opinions as to whether divorce would be considered the way to move forward or to stay and try to work through this.

But as mama always says "once a cheat always a cheat" and if I am not enough for him now what makes me believe I will be enough for him in the future (other then paying all the bills - which I already do now). I have no desire to be someone's bank roll. I want to be loved and cared for too just like everyone else, however not through monetary means.

He came home at 3 this morning drunk and stubbling and was standing in the kitchen cursing me out, and saying that he regrets the day he met me and nothing good has come of our thirteen year relationship. I was so speakless - I could not even answer him.

I kept thinking what about our children especially his S. How could he think that all our years together were nothing? I am not a person who goes to bars or clubs or even out with the girls. I work come home and take care of my family. I just don't get it.

He completely throughs me for a loop every chance he gets. I truly do not know how to handle this. Then this morning driving to work, the OW was in the car right in front of me. I had to utilize every effort not to smash her car.
--------------------
Married 13 yrs
3 Children

I'd suggest you might want to start by making a list of reasons to divorce, versus reasons to stay.

From your post, I see several reasons to divorce: he's emotionally absent, would rather throw darts and hang out in pubs that invest time in the relationship, he drinks too much, does not want to be responsible either for keeping a job or caring for the kids. Then there's an affair as well.

What reasons are there in your mind to stay?

Kathi

Dear Momwrugrats,

am I right in assuming you are the giving and conflict-avoiding type of person?

If so, that is what you'll need to change. There is some behavior that no-one should tolerate, and your H's behavior is just that. If you let him walk all over you and let him get away with it - you can bet he'll keep doing it. Your actions speak louder than your words and your tears.

I do think you need a more mature H. Maybe this man can grow up - but from what you have described, I sincerely doubt it.

You can stick around longer to get hurt more, to get disappointed once again. And you probably will because some part of you might be looking for a H like that. I did too. I managed to pick just the sort of H who wouldn't respect my opinion, for example, who would be self-centered and domineering. Well - I picked the sort of person my father was. I have had to learn that I'm worth more than that, because I didn't believe it myself. So I made sure I picked the sort of men that would ultimately show me that they also thought my opinion didn't matter.

Try to heal that part of you, honey. You'll make better decisions and have a happier life. And people who don't want you to be happy and who don't care about your feelings or respect your opinion have no place in your life.

Let me cut right to the chase: Some marriages should NOT be saved. This is one of them. Like kam, I see tons of reasons to leave...and have yet to find one for staying.

This relationship is abusive and toxic. Please GO STRAIGHT to Plan B and make your decision about whether to divorce in a safe place where you aren't being abused everyday.

kam6318, brownhair, star*fish:

you are right I avoid conflict at all costs, I was never a confrontational person until I found out about H's A. I felt so many emotions so fast - I kept thinking if I tried harder and never requested anything that he would finally be happy.

But from what I can see just since yesterday's post, he came home from being out yesterday afternoon at about 5:30pm - never said two words to me, I said hello he completely ignored me and gave the kids a high five then went to take a shower, when he came out of the bathroom, my D asked him if he had plans or could they go to the movies, he stated to her "well honey daddy has a dart tournament to go to - maybe we can do something next week if I am not busy" she just looked at him and said seems to me you never had time for us all this time why would next weekend be different." Then he started yelling at me saying I was putting these things into her head.

Fortunately my D is just like my three outspoken sisters who never took any garbage from anyone. I am the quiet one, who sits back and just watches everything without adding my opinion.

So I advised him that D will be 14 in two months do you think the children are blind to the situation at hand, althought they don't know about the A - they are very perceptive children. Sometimes they see things before I do.

Anyway, today I volunteered to watch my sisters children so they (Her H and Her) can attend a friends wedding.

H called me on my cell phone and asked me why our youngest S took his baby (stuff bear) with him. I said because he wanted to. He said well if you are not coming home tonight tell me - so I can make plans for my date. I swear for the first time in my life I wanted to use some very foul words to this man (boy)??/// I said well at this present time I am not sure of the time situation and that we may or may not be home this evening and that if prior to my knowledge of what will be happening tonight, he can reach me at my sisters number. He said I wouldn't call that B****'s house if the Pope paid me.

So I asked him why he needs to talk like that. He said that I am ruining his life and that he was sorry he ever called me because I do nothing but complicate his life.

I am confused as to what it is I did to receive such a response from him? I don't think I was nasty or anything I was just stating facts about the situation. Did I come across as nasty? I do not like hurting anyone's feelings.

P.S HE IS EXACTLY LIKE MY FATHER - ONLY AT PRESENT HE HASN'T PHYSICALLY ABUSED ME THE WAY MY FATHER DID TO MY MAMA. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

chere,

You tolerate abuse because you grew up with it. Please consider going to a CODA meeting in your area....I think that it will open your eyes.

You may not understand it yet...but codependency is ruining your life. My heart is breaking for you. Check out this link:

http://www.codependents.org/

and find out how you can break free of this!

Here is a huge cyberhug! ((((((((mom))))))))))

star*fish:

I want to thank you for that site information, but when I went on that site that you provided me, there are no meetings in my area. So I searched my state which shows three and they are between 55 and 87 miles away from my residence.

I was talking with my best friend who has an agressive personality like my siblings (5 are outgoing and two of us are quiet and reserved). She sugeested going to the library in our town to locate more information on this Co-dependency information.

I guess what I don't understand is why I am being treated this way. I never bring up the subject of money unless it is so strained that I am not meeting my responsiblities with the bills, and even then I don't nag him, I ask for his help with our family, which I thought was both our responsiblities.

After I had the baby of the family, I still had the baby weight years afterwards, mind you I am not a tall person (5'2" - 123 lbs.) He staring making comments on my weight - the way I dressed.

Then back in May I found out I have a heart condition which landed me in the hospital. My parents had the children, he did not even take care of them. I was there for five days and he never called or came to see how I was, then the day I was released he came to get me and when I asked him where he has been he said not to start with him. I wasn't starting I was concerned why I matter so little. We went and picked the kids up from my parents house, (which he refuses to step foot in). Went home and I went about my usual activities (get up at 4 am - clean the house again even though I cleaned it before going to bed - shower, make breakfast & lunch for the little people (as my step-father calls them)wake them up at 6:30 - get them dressed feed and drive them to school - drive myself to the train - take the train into NYC - work til 5 - leave to get the kids come home do homework - showers - dinner - prayers and then I am off to bed again at 11 pm. The whole time wondering where he is and why we seem to never have dinner as a family.

Well enough of my complaining, apologize for unloading all of this to all of you. But after thirteen years I needed to get it out of my system.

I called my own house 1/2 hr ago to tell H that I would be spending the night at my sister's and she answered my phone. I did not even say anything I just hung up. WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Star is right. Not all marriages should be saved. Lose 200 pounds of ugly fat NOW.

Seriously, you are already living as a single mom with a full grown adolescent mucking things up; Mom - the big rug rat has to go. He's hurting you and the kids. Do you notice that the only time he comes around is when he needs a meal ticket?

By the way, you can do this through conflict avoidance means if you want; move out of the apartment that you're probably covering the rent for anyway, get your own place without explaining anything. File for divorce; have a constable serve him. Doesn't sound like you have a lot of property in common. You have a child together; but sperm-donors who can't be bothered to pick up their own children, take care of their own children while their wife is in the hospital, are not fathers.

You can do this. If you can't find a CODA meeting in your area, sometimes a good old AA meeting will do because they usually have a family or spouses meeting too. They use a similar recovery format. Books you can read to help if you still can't find a meeting, include "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend, and "EXCUSE ME: Your Life is Waiting" by Lynn Grabhorn.

P.S. you also may want to check with the YWCA or Women's Shelter - you are being abused; they will be able to point you in the direction of legal support to protect your children from his negligence.

Kayla is right....Al-Anon which is also for codependency would be a great place to find strength and support and even small communities have those. Women's groups in your area are also likely to have other resources for you.

Please believe that you deserve a better life than this....and this is not the legacy you want to give to your children. They learn how others should treat them from your example.

(((((((((((momwrugrats)))))))))))

Hello everyone:

my days just keep getting worse - yesterday H said he wanted to take the kids out with me trick or treating, so my D invited her friend along, well H hit the roof. I asked him why he had a problem with the child bringing a friend H started yelling at me infront of the children that he did not need any of my psycho babble B-S. So I said what in gods name are you talking about. H said he was not going now. Because instead of this being a family outing I was making it into a party.

So I took the children out of the house for Halloween, I was suppose to meet up with my SIL. I took the children to her house but my BIL said that she was in the shower and to come back in 45 minutes, well we all know what children are like once they start trick or treating. After 45 minutes I said okay lets go to Tia's house, well my littlest started crying saying he did not want to go. So I tried to call her to tell her to meet up with us on a certain block. Well her line was busy and I don't have a cell phone number for her, so I tried three more times and the line was still busy. So I continued on my way with the children. Completely forgetting about trying to call her again with all the running up and down stairs and making sure I had all the children with me since I seems to have picked up a few more along the way (D & S's friends).

After six hours of this I finally went home, H started screaming at me that I stood his sister up, when I tried to explain what happened, he said "You let a seven year old dictate your life, maybe you shouldn't have children, your the worst mother in the world, your so selfish you don't think about others. You suck as a wife, you suck as a mother - why don't you just die and relieve everyone from you presence." My D & S were crying, H kept yelling that I make excuses all the time and never follow through with my responsibilies and that I was a F***ing W**** who only knew how to lie and that he is sick of this S***.

Then took the children with him out the door. They came home like thirty minutes later with bags in there hands from the grocery store, whick held tissues and toilet paper.

My D told me that H called SIL on the phone and left a message that the stupid B**** had some dumb A** excuse like always. Then he called her to say that he was dropping the kids off with their F'D up mother and that he would be over to take her and her daughters out trick or treating.

So I went about unhooking the computer at home, and have decided to cancel his cell phone which happens to be under my plan and cancel his medical coverage which is under my work coverage. I refuse to pay for something this man is utilizing to contact the OW.

What worries me is I don't like being mean and doing these things leaves me feel awful. I don't want to be one of those women that men refer to as a Nagging B, however, I am just so tired of being treated like nothing.

Since he communicates with OW through the cell phone and email, IM. I have decided that I am not going to make it easy for this man to keep doing this to me. I have decided that a Divorce is the only way to go, if things are getting this bad then I don't want to see what the future holds with this man.

The sad part in all of this is that today is my littlest one's Birthday. He made me feel so good this morning when I took him to school, he said I was the best mommy ever and that he wants to marry me when he gets big because I make the best cupcakes. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I think what brought me to this stage of cancelling things with the cell and the computer, is that my D asked me if all men treat their ladies they supposedly love this way. God Lord, I thought my heart was going to break; due to the message I seem to be sending this child that woman should take this type of treatment. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Okay I did something which I am not sure was correct or not. I made copies of all the cell phone bills with OW home number, cell and work number on them and copies of their emails and IM's and went to speak with OWH, he totally did not believe me, he kept saying well alot of people don't like my W, I said I don't know you or your wife, but what I do know is that she is having an A with my H. He said "well emails don't prove anything anyone could have read written them, IM's anyone could log on as another person and make up stories. As far as the cell phone bills, they are friends and have been for more years then I have been marriage to her. I said what friend calls you between 1 am and 5 am and talkes for 45 minutes at 103 calls per month and 98 tmail messages on the cell phone."

So he said he would look into it and get back to me. What baffles me is that fact that everyone in the dart circuit knows about the two other them and they all keep covering up for them. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY MORALS LEFT?

So I have been searching on this sight for what PLAN B is but can not find any information am I posting in the wrong catergory?

Can someone advise? Thank you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Dear Momwrugrats,

you did the right thing by telling OW's H. You gave him evidence, it's up to him to believe it or not. It's likely his W will tell him more lies, or even say you're crazy, whatever to keep the A going. You have done your duty, now take care of yourself.

Plan B means you let your H find out for himself what the relationship with OW is like in "real life", instead of in the phantasy world of an A. It means you cut all contact with him while he continues seeing OW. But it also means you'd be willing to get back together with him when he comes to his senses, agrees to NC with OW and wants to work on the M.

Do you really want that? There are many other issues besides this A, it seems. Your H will need to do a lot of work on himself and on the M and the question is if he'll ever be willing to do that much introspection. It's so much easier to blame others for all that isn't right in one's life...

You'll have to be very clear about what you want and what you need.

Dear Brownhair:

I know that I don't want this marriage anymore, I have to believe that I deserve respect and honesty and to be loved. I can't fogive and forget, not after what I have been going through for some many years with this man.

And after thinking about what my D said to me, I have to show her that no woman should be treated this way, and that if we don't stand up for our selves we will never get the respect we want or deserve.

As for H, it would appear to me that he is proving everyday that this marriage is not what he wants. What I have trouble comprehending is why he just does not leave, so that that children and I can start healing from all the stress and tension in the house. (OH THAT'S RIGHT I AM HIS MEAL TICKET). Well I decided yesterday as I was standing there defending myself against this man, that I am no longer an ATM machine - a marriage takes two at 50 - 50 each not one providing 99% and the other providing 1%.

I believe that I have accomplished alot in life - I went from being a child of a drug/alcohol envoirment with my parents where we had no money and no food moving every six months. To graduating the top 25 of my senior class and then putting myself through college, getting a great job with wonderful people who respect and value my opinion and being bless by the Lord with my three magnificent children.

I keep trying to repeat to myself a statement my sister makes to me all the time. "I am wonderful and I am a good person with a good heart and I can do anything I set my mind too - because the Lord is guiding my way"

Of course then again there are days when I hear the Lord only gives you what you can handle and on those days I say, WELL THE NEXT TIME YOU SPEAK WITH HIM COULD YOU ASK HIM TO CUT ME A BREAK THIS WEEK. Seems quite rude, and I would never disrespect our Lord but some days the heartache, and anger just seem to get the best of me.

I try to never allow my children to see me anger or heartbroken. I believe children should not be burdened with worry. They have enough trouble with peer pressure to have to think about all the things that are going on with the parents. Adult situations are not for children to handle. Hence the titales Adult and Child. But some days I can not hold back the tears any more, and I have to think about the physcological effect all of this is having on my children. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Oh my goodness. What a TERRIBLE way to live. Can I ask you WHY he's even there? What is the purpose in having him in your life at this point? It sounds like every encounter is abusive and angry and pointless?

Honestly, if I was in your shoes, I'd probably get rid of him. However I could. Just get rid of him. Your kids (and YOU) deserve some peace! *hugs*

C

C-dub:

Thank you for those words, and I have no idea why he is still there according to our state law I was advised that he can live with us until the divorce is final or there is physical abuse in the home. And evidently her husband is still living home. Since he did not believe a word I said.

My sister(s) keep telling me what to do but none of them are in my situation. One says pack his stuff and put it on the lawn, another tells me to call the police, the other one I can't even mention her suggestion (it is kind of voilent and has to do with male parts.)

But I have called attorneys today, I have an appt with one at lunch time on Friday - this way the children aren't with me and I am not searching for a babysitter. I have to figure out a way to talk to them about this decision, because when they serve him it will probably be at the house, I just want to know when and what time so none of us are there just in case.

Well unfortunately I am leaving work now, sometimes I wish I could stay here 24/7, but my little people need me so off I go. I will check back with everyone tomorrow.

Honey, your children will applaud you. They'll have some peace. You'll be happier. Their DAD will probably be happier - you 'll probably be better PARENTS separated than together! *hug*

C

Well my youngest childs birthday party was not so pleasant. My SIL and BIL came over - between them and my H they all ignored me (like I wasn't even in the room) my D got mad and said mama asked if anyone would like something to eat or drink, they turned around to her and said "oh no Caity, we don't need anything thank you for asking though" she looked at me threw her hands in the air and walked out of the dining room.

I told her don't get mad maybe they did not hear me when I spoke. She said "yeah right mama".

Then this morning my H decided he would drive our youngest to school - my D had no school due to the election. She called me on the phone and said "mama I heard daddy tell Little one that they needed to stop by (the OW's) house so she can say happy birthday to Little One" I asked her why she was telling me this since daddy is friends with this person. My D states" Mama do you think I am that stupid that I don't know he has a girlfriend and it happens to be her" Then she hung up on me.

I guess we don't realize how smart our children are or how much they pay attention until we least expect it. My problem now is how do I discuss this with her and not have her hate her dad? Any suggestions?

Well just wanted to update everyone, I moved out with the children. My youngest S seems to be taking it in stride. However, my D and my oldest S, have been crying alot and having nightmares. I have begun counseling with them to help them deal with what is going on.

Saturday H called wanted to know if he could have the children for the night. I advised him that our D had a slumber party, oldest S was going to visit my sister in PA. So only the little one was able to visit him. I took the little one over, gave H all the things the child would need. (toothbrush, toothpaste, food, blanket, bear etc.)

That night my Sister called wanted to know if I was able to go to dinner, so I was so excited my first time with out the children I can actual have an adult conversation without having to watch every word I spoke. So she picked me up, we have to go past H's house to get to the main street. As we are going past, H, OW, S and OW's children were out in front of his house, he was hugging and kissing OW right in front of my S, I have repeatedly asked him not to bring our children around OW or her family. Is there anything I can do to prevent this from happening again? I set up a parenting plan prior to my moving out, but as always he has never responded to any of my letters, emails or verbal talking.

Anyway, on Sunday I go to pick up my S from H's house, and he asked me if I got any of his mail. Which I haven't so I told him that, he starts calling me a liar and that I better not be messing with his mail. So, I let that go because my S was looking scared. Then H advises me that he filed for unemployment and that I better not screw it up since he put all our SS#'s on the form for family dependents. Now I am wondering what I can do about that since he never supported us to being with. Is it legal to utilize a spouse or child's SS if they do not live in your home?

My youngest S was telling my D later that evening that they have a new mommy now and that they are going to have two more sisters. What in god's name have these people said in front of my S.

Since I can not afford an attorney right now, I feel like I am stuck. Anyone have any advise on any of my issues? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

"H advises me that he filed for unemployment and that I better not screw it up since he put all our SS#'s on the form for family dependents. Now I am wondering what I can do about that since he never supported us to being with. Is it legal to utilize a spouse or child's SS if they do not live in your home?"

I don't know the law in your state. Call the Unemployment Office, get a supervisor on the phone, and ask your question. If you know about his fraud, (which I think it is, since you and the kids are not living with him and he isn't supporting them) you may be legally or morally obligated to expose him.

If he is found out, deny, deny, deny. It wasn't you who dropped the dime on him. ("Maybe they investigate claims at random, like the IRS audits?")

He is a pip. The taxes you pay out of your paycheck and those that others in your state pay, are for legitimately unemployed people. In effect, by filing and falsely claiming you all as dependants, he is stealing from the taxpayers and from truly unemployed heads of household with honest-to-gosh dependants to support.

I followed your thread, and I am happy that you made the decision to move away from him. He is terrible.

<small>[ December 15, 2004, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Bellevue ]</small>