Hi everybody!

I have been reading on this board since August when I truly found out about my WH's 3rd A. The A has been going on for about 2 years. I wished I had found out about this site years ago. We probably wouldn't be going through this now. The bad part is I suspected last year but couldn't prove it. I know the OW. And have known her forever it seems. Her mother babysat my oldest child when he was 4 (now 16). I am assuming like most affairs it started out that they were friends and then when we started having problems he ran to her for a shoulder to cry on. It definitely started out has a EA and evolved into a PA.

Last summer he took our youngest son with him to her house. He would take our kids out with them on their dates. He went with her to her family reunion and took our youngest son. And that is just the tip of the iceberg. He has done so many things that it would take too long to explain. Every time I confronted him about it, he of course denied, denied, denied. There was even a time last winter when he wasn't even coming home at night. I just continued to endure: the hurt , the pain, the humiliation because everyone we knew would see them together. I became immersed in work, i stopped going to church, because I felt that God had just forsaken me for letting go through this and just let him do his thing. No matter what I said or did it wasn't changing anything. We were constantly fighting or not speaking to each other and we became like roommates.

In June, I took off my rings, because I felt that we were not even married anymore. He didn't even notice until July 4th when I took the kids to a friends house for a cookout and he got mad because I didn't tell him where we were going. (Even though for the past year and half he was coming and going as he pleased and with her the majority of the time.) Then we met up at his cousin's house and I was sitting on the couch when he finally noticed I didn't have my rings on. He didn't comment until after we left. I told him the truth that I didn't feel that we were married anymore and that he didn't love me. And he tries to blame me that I have hurt him too and all kinds of stuff. Then a couple of days later he says he wants to go away on a vacation with me, just the two of us. I asked why. And he says so that we can spend some time alone. I agree thinking ok he's coming around. So we start planning this vacation. We started planning the vacation for August. Then she, the OW, had the nerve to call my house, and when I called and told her not to ever call my house again she starts cussing me out and telling me I need to just leave him and get a divorce. And he had the gall to get upset at me for telling her not to call the house anymore. The fog talking I assume.

Then all of sudden out of the blue at the end of July or the beginning of August, I can't remember exactly, he calls me at work and leaves a message on my vm asking me if I love him. I call him back and say they question is not whether or not I love you it's if you love me. and he says he does. Then about a week later he calls me at home from his second job and says to me you were right about her and she has lied on me and all this other junk. Saying she is chasing him and calling him all the time. So I'm thinking she has done something to really upset him and he is going to break it off with her. So I call her at work and we have this long conversation saying he told her we were getting a divorce and that she knows it wrong. She even said she changed her cell phone and house phone number because he was calling her all the time and she was trying to break it off! BIG LIES. Yes she changed them but she gave him the new numbers. She says that she is sorry and that she just wants to get on with her life. And then she tells me that she is not the only other woman in his life. and that there is someone else. I tell her she needs to leave him alone and just get on with her life because we are not getting a divorce and that there has been no discussion of divorce. So we get off the phone and I call and tell him i called her and he calls her and she, of course, tells more lies saying that I was yelling at her and all this other crap. So it ends up I found out how to access his vm on his cell phone and she has left these messages for him that he needs to handle me and get me straight on what is going on. In the meantime I found this site. I printed off the HNHN analysis for both of us to do. I did mine relatively quickly, he took about a week to do his but he finally did it. I thought progress. Then the next weekend I find out that she has bought tickets for them to go see a play on that sunday.( I called her the previous Friday.) So i confront him about it and he lies and says that he doesn't know what I am talking about and he is not going to any play with her. Another lie. Sunday morning we go to a friends church and out to eat with them and its about 6:00pm when we get home. He doesn't come in the house but immediately goes to his car, and I ask where he is going. Knowing he is going to the play. He says he has to go clean his buildings.(he has a commercial cleaning business on the side). So he calls me about an hour later from one of his buildings( this was just a cover up). I called him back about a hour later and he doesn't answer his phone so I listen to his vm and she has left him a message from the theater wondering where he is . So by then I know he went to the play. I got the our kids in the car and went to the theater to wait for them to come out. BIG, HUGE SCENE! I literally attacked her and he had to pull me off of her. UGLY! So he says that he now wants a divorce because he can't take how I acted and I was wrong. And that they were just friends. and the majority of the time she was talking about the church service we both had attended the night before. Oh did I forget to mention that her family goes to my dad's church and she had the nerve to come there and act like she was all innocent. Praising the lord and so on and so forth. She is such a hypocrite. Anyway, she tells him she doesn't understand how he could be with a person like me. That was funny. Soooo, we are having this huge fight for about a week about this. I am asking him to break it off with her sign the NC and all of this. None of which is working. And he still is saying nothing is going on between them. By the way the whole time he still wants SF with me and still sleeps in our bed. He also starts planning all of these activities with me and the kids, which he never does. So, I start thinking again that he is trying to break it off with her he just cant' because he is addicted but he doesn't realize he is.

So in the meantime, we have decided to go on a cruise which was suppose to happen in September but had to be pushed to Oct because of his job. So we hit September. He is still calling her and she is calling him and sending him these txt msgs about how much she loves him and wants to be his wife etc, etc, etc.. on his cell phone. which i check every night. I even forwarded the txt msgs to my phone for future reference. He still denies anything is going on with them every time I confront him about it. He is also going over her apartment I found out. Then she starts calling my job from her cell phone and leaving crazy messages on vm at work like silence or music or weird noises. And calling the main desk and having them page me to the phone and then wouldn't say anything. So I call her at her job and tell her to stop harassing me at work because we can trace the calls that come in and she denies she's calling but ask me to tell her what the number is. She is so stupid. So I tell my WH to tell her to stop calling my job and he tells me that she is denying that she is and if she is call the police and get her for harassment. She finally stops calling my job and things are going along pretty smooth with me and WH even though I know he is still talking to her and seeing her. Then one night he catches me checking his phone. So he starts to erase his call histories but not the txt msgs. Dumb. The whole time I am doing my best to plan A.

Then a week before we are to go on vacation he doesn't come home and he isn't answering his cell phone and its about 9:00 at night, so I go to her apartment and low and behold his truck is outside. She has a garden apt so her windows are all at the bottom of the building. I look inside her bedroom window and there he is laying on her bed. (fully clothed mind, you but still....) so I bang on her front door and her window just to let them know that they were caught, and I leave. And I leave a message on his cell phone that if he wants to be with her so badly why is he still with me and why are we going away next week. I also tell him we just need to get a divorce because I can't take this anymore. Then I leave him a second message telling him I love him and I really don't want a divorce but again I can't continue to live like this. He calls me from her house on my cell phone and tells me she is calling the police on me for assault, then hangs up. Then She calls me on my cell phone and starts cussing me out and telling me all these lies he has told her. I asked her if he told her the we were going on a cruise next week just the two of us and she said I was lying he was going away to England to visit my sister and brother in law next week. I said ok you are dumb if you really believed that and then I said did he tell you that we are still together and we are still having SF almost every night. She said I was lying again and that he told her that he sleeps on the couch in our basement. I started laughing because it was so funny and she is so gullible. I said ok since he is still right there why not ask him where he is going next week and ask him where he sleeps at night. So she does and He gets soooo mad and starts calling me all kinds of names but he never answers her, I can hear him in the background the whole time. So I hang up on her and by this time I am at home. So, I call my MC ( I am in individual Counseling) and tell her what happened. She starts praying with me and calming me down. Then he calls the house and tells me he's coming home to get his things and leaving and he's not going on the cruise with me. And if its a divorce I want fine. I said fine, If that is what you want to do go live with her and if you want to waste your money that is on you. You are not getting a refund and I have no problem going without you. So he comes home about 2 hours later and comes into our room takes off his clothes and gets into our bed and I said you have got to be kidding me! You are not sleeping in here after you were just with her. So we get into this big argument over her again. He says he was just over there to do his homework, ( he is getting his MBA online) and he was going to leave around 10. I was like you were not doing your homework you were lying on her bed. By this time I am so frustrated because he thinks I am stupid.

So of course he doesn't leave and we end up going on the cruise. Which we had really a nice time. All that recreational companionship. We were like a real in love married couple while we were away. Then we came home..... Things were okay I guess. The Monday after we got back we went to his cousin's's church. They were having a couples seminar that they were doing every Monday night. I was really shocked that he went because I had asked him to go to MC with me but he said no. One of the activities the Pastor made us do was right down six immediate goals we wanted for our marriage and two to three long term goals. We had to do this separately, then exchange papers to see how we compared in our answers. Surprisingly we had many of the same answers and one of the long term goals he wanted was for us to buy another house in about 3 years. So he is thinking long term for us. He also was coming home every night. He was calling me letting me know what he was doing. But I still knew he was talking to her. Oh I forgot to mention the night I caught him at her house I let it slip to her in the heat of the moment that I knew about the text Msgs she sent him so of course she let him know that i was checking . So he started to take his phone with him everywhere while he was in the house. Then about 2 weeks ago he doesn't come home on Friday night but comes in Saturday morning and then he didn't come home again on Saturday night. So I knew he had spent the weekend with her. I confirmed it because she is still sending him txs msgs and told him how happy she was he spent friday with her and couldn't wait to spend saturday with him. I found this on Sunday but I didn't mention it to him until Tuesday. He of course denied it and wanted to know why I thought that, I of course couldn't tell him how I found out. Why is it that they can never admit the truth when you confront them with it. I don't understand that.

Anyway, so after that he is still coming home every night. We still have SF. And we started remodeling our house. Then last sunday he wasn't answering his phone again and I listened to his vm and she has called him about 3 times wondering where he was and why he hadn't come to see her and she thought he loved her. yada yada yada. I also found out that she had a doctor's appt on Monday and that he was suppose to go with her. So Monday morning we have SF and then he leaves to supposedly go to work. But I know he didn't go because the whole morning he is calling me from his cell phone and I can hear radio playing in the background of his truck. But I don't say anything to him. He comes home for lunch before he really goes to work. Wednesday is my day off and he happens take the day off of too. It's also our daughter's 3rd birthday. So that morning we again have SF. He gets dress, I get dress and take the kids to school and then come back home. He went to Home Depot to get some things the contractors needed for the house. So he calls me and says I'll be outside in minute lets go get our D cake and gift. So we do that. He takes me to lunch. At lunch I want to bring up Monday morning but I don't. Anyway, then we came home. He had to leave out again to go look at a new account he was thinking of getting for the business. So we go through this day pretty well. Pizza for dinner then Birthday cake and all that. He even stays at home all night. So that brings us to Thursday. He goes to work. I go to work. I pick up the kids. When we get home he is getting ready to leave to go to Karate. He goes there. Then he goes to clean an account where I talk to him at. That was around 9:30. Then I call him around 10:30 and he doesn't answer his phone and doesn't answer it for the next two hours. I figure he is with her but I don't go and check because the kids are asleep and I wasn't taking them out that late at night. He finally gets home around 1:00 this morning. So this morning I called him while he was on his way to work and let him know that I loved him but I can't continue to live in this triangle. He immediately asks me why I think he was with OW last night. And I said its not about last night its about in general she depends on you like you are her husband and you act like you are. And he is like what are you talking about. I said where were you Monday morning. He says at work. I say lie you took her to the doctors on Monday and he was like what are you talking about. What doctor and where. I said I wasn't going to answer that because it is not the main point I am getting at. So he hangs up on me. I call him back and he continues to hang up on me as long as I don't answer the question about the doctor. So eventually I leave two messages on his vm. Which I don't know if he actually listened to or just erased.

I said all of that to say this. Do I continue to confront him about the things I find out? How long should I stay in plan A. He is definitely having his cake and eating it right now.

Dear Healedheart,

Welcome to MB my dear. As it's weekend and perhaps you're in a different timezone as America, like I am, it will take a while to get replies but I'm sure others will join in to help you.

What worries me most in your story is your first sentence: this is your H's 3rd A. It sounds to me he's what is called a "serial cheater". If he does get over this OW, he might very well have a 4th, a 5th and a 6th A. Because that is what a serial cheater does - they run from problems and try to "fix" them with a new relationship or with the thrill of sex with a new partner. Sooner or later the new OW will cause some problem too, or maybe start making demands he's not willing to comply to, whatever, and the A will end. Etc. etc.

If this is your H's scenario, then you cannot fix this on your own. No matter how hard you'll try to be the perfect wife, if you'll meet all his needs etc. HE has to fix himself. There is some "hole in his soul" where all the love he gets from others, and the love he should feel for himself, just falls through. He needs to fix that hole.

He needs to grow up - from a boy who wants to get his cake and eat it, to a man who will feel fulfilled enough, worthy enough, strong enough to share instead of take/steal.

I really suggest your H and you go into counseling. Find yourself a good MC, IC, therapist, whatever, but don't keep living this life. All those lies will kill the M and the last bit of love you have for him. So if you still love him and want to spend the rest of your life with him, talk to him (gently) and tell him you need him to go into counseling because this can't go on.

He'll probably try to convince you that this A is over, that he loves you etc. etc. Remind yourself of all those men who do exactly the same after having beaten up their wifes, or after having been drunk again.. They're soooo sorry... they'll never do it again.. they'll be good now, you'll see!! They mean well but they don't know how to do it. They need HELP.

Keep posting here my dear.
It will help you vent your frustrations and put things into perspective.

dear brownhair-

Thank you for your words of encouragement. I am in IC. I have asked him to go to MC. He said no. I am thinking of going to our Pastor. But will that just cause more strife? I know most people here advocate telling everyone to speed along the end of the A. Also I talked to the OW's dad yesterday and he knows about it and has talked to her but she is not listening to him. He told me they haven't spoken to each other in about a month because of it. So her family knows but she doesn't care. I know my husband needs serious help but, like most addicts he doesn't know its a problem. He has some deep issues he hasn't dealt with and he won't deal with them. Even this morning he said he is going to continue to talk to her and see her. And that I shouldn't be concerned about who he loves and doesn't love. Just plain crazy talk. This is really getting to be hard. Now I understand why most women only last in plan A for a few months. Who wants to put up with that junk.

Welcome to marriagebuilders. Start in Plan A. You can read all about it on the link in my signature line. This is a great place to be for help and support. It will be very miserable for you at first, but I promise you it will get much better.

Dear HealedHeart,

what happened regarding your H's first and second A? Did you find out or did he tell you? Did you talk about it?

hi brownhair-

With the first two I found out after the fact, the first through a mutal friend. And when I confronted him about it he denied it. But later admitted to it when we were in MC. The second was really just a ONS and the woman told me herself and he admitted to it when I confronted him. OH! Did I forget to mention that I have known all the woman that he has committed these infidities with. The ONS was with one of my supposed best friends. The current OW was really never a friend. And now that I think about it has always felt something for him. Like they say hindsight is always 20/20.

Anyway, yesterday he found out through the OW that I talked to her dad. He was not happy to say the least. He also admitted to going to the doctors with her. He is still claiming that they are just friends. And then he said that by me going to her dad just causes him to want to be with her more and he's not going to stop talking to her or seeing her. And she is easier to talk too than I am. He also said that I must me jealous of her and I feel threatened by her. I was like okay, how should I feel when another woman is telling my husband that she wants to be his wife and wants to have his baby? And he is totally agreeable with that? Then when I told him that his relationship with her is hurting me and I don't feel right about it. He had the nerve to say. You are not hurt and you don't care. At that point I couldn't even say anything else and got off the phone with him. He just totally discounted my feelings. I'm trying to save our marriage and he is just so wrapped up in his feelings for her that he can't see anything else. I know that this is typical behavior of a WS, but it is so frustrating and hurtful to hear these things. It makes it ten times worse than when we were just living our separate lives, because now I know what is really going on to its full extent.

Dear HealedHeart,

of course this is a lot of fog-talk. Hurtful, but you can recover from that. On the other hand, if this is his third A, the problems are a lot bigger than simply waiting until this fog settles. This man needs a fog horn, like a good counselor for example..

Just supposing there is no PA going on now (which seems unlikely) it's very disrespectful of him towards you to see another woman like this after what he has done in the past. It's not very likely you'll ever start feeling comfortable in this M again unless he really changes his ways. It's not enough that this A ends. He really, really has to change or you will keep getting hurt.

You can start plan A. Be the person you would want him to be. Be honest, respectful, attentive to his needs. Don't lie and go behind his back. But also be honest about your feelings, without LB'ing that is.

Hang in there my dear. We're here for you.

dear brownhair-

I am doing my best to Plan A. We did do the Emotional Needs questionaire, so I am doing my best to meet his most important EN. His five most important were Affection, SF, Attractive Spouse, Domestic Support, and recreational companionship. But it's hard to meet some of his needs when he is hardly ever home and he won't schedule time for us to be together with out the kids. He works one full time job during the day, and second part-time job at night 3 to 4 nights a week, and does his commerical cleaning business. Any of his free time is spent away from home and me and the kids. I work at a car dealership, so my hours are crazy also. I work alternate days and nights and every saturday. My off days are Wednesdays and Sundays. Sundays we do go to church but not together if he decides to go at all. I basically take care of the kids by myself when I am not working. I clean the house do the all the laundry and the cooking. He basically lives his life like he is single.

I have been asking him to go back to MC but he refuses. We have been before. We have been to 4 diffferent MC since we have been married. He is the one who suggests it at the beginning but then he never wants to do the homework and we eventually stop going. The MC I want to go to is our last one. She knows both of us and is very pro marriage and very realistic. She is all for doing whatever it takes and about working on the all issues surrounding the relationship. But I think he doesn't want to go to her because she will make him face what he is doing and he doesn't want someone he respects making him face his wrong decisions. That is another reason we stop going to MC because anytime things hit to close to home for him he wants to bail out instead of dealing with it.

hi believer-

I have started Plan A. I started when I first found this site. I am trying to put pressure on the A by telling the people suggested on the board. The next person I am going to is our Pastor. I don't think I will tell his parents becuase it wouldn't do any good. I believe it was WAT who said blood is thicker than mud. And if you read my previous post about what happened yesterday, telling her parents didn't do any good. She called her mom with him on the phone and talked about what I said to her Dad. Her mom didn't know he was on the phone. And things got all turned around. When he got home he asked me am I going to tell his parents. I didn't even answer him. He keeps telling me he can do what he wants and talk to who he wants because he is a grown man and me telling people things about him is not going to make him change what he does. So now he is going to start telling people he is not happy in his marriage. I said okay if you feel you have to do that to feel justified in your A.