Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#453285 11/06/04 12:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5
R
Junior Member
Junior Member
R Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5
My WS is a flight attendant by profession and has been doing it for 18 years. I married her 7 years ago after her second divorce and 3 children. (sounds crazy already)

I have 1 DS-6 with her, 1 SS-12, 1 SD-14, and 1 SS-16.

I Discovered my WS was having an A that hd been ongoing for 8 months with a pilot on Aug 13, 2002. She said she was sorry and it really wasn't anything. She vowed to cease all contact with the OM and we slowly recovered.

August 18, 2004, I discovered my WS had been talking quite a bit with another male flight attendant (married). I also found out that they had been manipulating their schedules so they were on the same trips together where they would share the same layovers in places like Paris, London, ect.

After 1 of my WS trips, she was to fly direct to Dallas for 2 days of training prior to coming home. I noticed on the Non Revenue travel web site that the OM was also on the flight with my WS to Dallas. I hired a PI to follow them and discovered that he went to dinner with her then went to her room with her. Also, he left her room bright and early suitcases in hand.

I confronted my WS and she denied all. She was furious that I "spied" on her and hired the PI.
She denies there was or is an affair going on but says that it was getting close.

We have started basic counseling which I have be arranging and my WS reluctantly attending. I have been following a Plan A since August but things do not seem to be improving. I vowed not to "spy" on her so I dont know for sure if she is still in contact with the OM or still planning trips together with him. But, my gut feeling is that it is still goung on.

I feel as if I am enabling here to continue the A by being nice and loving and providing here with the things she felt our relationship was lacking.

At this point, I'm tempted to revert back to Spying to find out if my gut is true. Another part of me feels like abandoning the effort all together and ask for a D.

Any advise?

BS (me) 36
WS-39
Married-7 years
Together for 8
D-Day 1 08/13/02
D-Day 2 08/18/04
Last known Contact 8/12/04

#453286 11/06/04 12:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 462
B
Member
Member
B Offline
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 462
The biggest part of recovery is complete disclosure. She should be willing to show you flight schedule, phone records, anything you need to trust in her again. Your agreement to not snoop is her way of getting you to allow her to contine (or not) the relationship as she sees fit.

What is she doing toward recovery? How is she trying to repair your marriage? Did she have affairs in her other marriages? It could be that she is trying to validate herself with other men instead of looking to herself.

Push for no contact and full disclosure. Read others experiences here, they can help.

#453287 11/07/04 01:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5
R
Junior Member
Junior Member
R Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5
I agree with complete disclosure. However, her tact has been complete non-disclosure. Changed all passwords to schedules, phone bills, ect.

Your question as to what she is doing is the same thing I ask myself. I have planned and scheduled all counseling, couples events, church, ect. She is actually reluctant to participate but does so half heartedly.

So...I question if my approach is getting me anywhere?

#453288 11/06/04 02:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,457
B
Member
Member
B Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,457
Hello,

It seems clear that your wife is not committed to your marriage. She has engaged in sexual affairs in the past on you and continues to do so now. You judge a person by their actions and not by their words. Her actions speak volume. She seems like a cakewoman who enjoys having a husband at home for material support and enjoys being with other men when she travels. You need to ask yourself why do you feel you deserve so little in your life and such disrespect and potential threat to your own health? I think you deserve better don't you?

#453289 11/06/04 03:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 200
I
Member
Member
I Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 200
Rich,

Welcome to Marriage Builders. It's a great site with some wonderful people who have a lot of wisdom to share. I hope some of the veterans see your post and offer you some good advice. In the meantime...

I am sorry your wife is treating you so badly and so predictably for a WS (Wayward or unfaithful spouse). You could ask your wife if she wants you to trust her. Of course she'll say yes. Explain to her that people in a marriage are not entitled to have hidden, secret lives. There is a huge difference between privacy and a life you are actively hiding from your husband. Actually, there is very little room in a marriage for privacy. It goes against the whole principle of becoming one.

Your wife has proven by her actions that she is untrustworthy. She must now prove how trustworthy she can become. As Dr.Phil likes to say, "People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing." Tell her that everytime you check her email, cell, etc and find that she is being honest and faithful is a step along the path to a new trust. She must become an open book. She must be where she says she's going to be and with whom she said she's going to be every time. I have found that the only way to regain trust is by confirming, by checking. I then feel reassured and that we're making progress. This was just in the beginning stages of recovery. You don't have to "spy" forever. But because of your wife's past infidelities, you have every right to do so whenever you feel the need. It's a healthy thing.

Having said all of that, it occurs to me that you may be dealing with something that will require a lot of professional expertise. Could your wife be a sexual addict? There are some good websites and books out there that can help. Sorry, I can't remember specifics right off, but you could try a search on this web-site for posts on sexual addiction.

Rich, you may also want to share the following letter with her. It's about the need to know. It's from www.dearpeggy.com infidelity site. Best of luck in recovering your marriage.

Joseph's Letter

I want to share a beautiful example of a letter one man wrote in his effort to get his wife to answer his questions. This was originally posted on my BAN Message Board before it was closed. While I didn't keep any of the messages posted on that board, this was so exceptional that I got Joseph's permission to include it in "Peggy's Forum" so it could continue to be accessed by people who didn't read his original posting.

So I'm including it here as a clear statement of the "need to know," as well as a clear explanation of why you ask the questions:

"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)

#453290 11/06/04 04:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5
R
Junior Member
Junior Member
R Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5
I appreciate all of the prompt input. It really whacks things into perspective. A couple of comments. I do feel as though I deserve better and I do feel that I am wronged and should not be treated this way. My only reservations or bind to the relationship is our children. I know (or think) how difficult it will be to put them through a divorce and It's difficult for me to do that. I cant help but think that they will blame me some how.....probably because I fear they would be deceived by their mother as I have.

As far as the comment about sexual addiction. I don't think that is case. I certainly think is more emotional and also the thrill of having 2 great lives. One stable family at home and one exciting life filled with travel, new friends, nightlife, ect. However, you never know!

I really appreciate the letter. I will share this for sure and see what the reaction is.

Thankyou, Rich

#453291 11/09/04 12:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 321
J
Member
Member
J Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 321
Rich, My only thought on the letter is that it makes the assumption that the WS is remorseful.
My WH is not, he places all blame on me, he doesn't want to talk about it. I would recommend you read Love Must Be Tough by James Dobson.
If your wife isn't budging and willing to accept the consequences of her A, then tell her she needs to leave until she has her head on straight.
Unless you can work out a Plan A, I think Plan B may be a better option. It would be tough though because of the kids. You need to be their strength and they are your hope. Just my two cents.

BW 41(me)
WH 41
married 14 1/2 yrs
2 girls 10, 12
Dday 10/26/04

#453292 11/10/04 10:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 811
A
Member
Member
A Offline
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 811
Natalie,

That letter just floored me. I showed to my husband because I am the one who needs to know the details for my healing. That letter sums it up the best for me. This is what I have been trying to tell my husbands for months. Thank you so much for posting that beautiful letter! Thank you, thank you, thank you and thank you!!! I cannot not say it enough.

Rich,

I used to work near O'Hare airport in a high rise.
Strange enough, a lot of the sales guys that I worked with were married to flight attendants. The floor that we shared was also home for The Pilots Union and the flight attendants union. I befriended a lot of pilots. I almost went to work for United as a flight attendant. But during the orientation the thought of flying in a tin tube and not getting paid enough changed my mind. Unfortuately, I have heard many stories about adultry in that business. For some reason working for the airlines is glamorized. Back then I wasn't married but I was living with my H. It just floored me how affairs were apart of the norm and how it was "OK"!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> By all means snoop! She broke all the rules. By promising her not to snoop, you are giving her a ticket to become more sneaky. Unbreak that promise to yourself. But don't tell her. I just say snoop. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />


Ali~

#453293 11/10/04 10:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 6,950
T
Member
Member
T Offline
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 6,950
One affair was bad enough, but a second affair is too much. It is obvious, even to a blind man, that you WW does not fear any consequences because she knows that you are afraid to execute them. She has no respect for you and without respect there can be no love or desire to save and rebuild the marriage. There are no guarantees that even if you continue to let her have her cake that she won't chose to divorce you anyway [she has done it twice before you married her, remember?]. Please read 7 Powerful Tactics to Break Free From The Affair and Stop it NOW!.
12 Unattractive, Ugly, Typical Tact...he Affair and Guarantee Their Own Misery.

#453294 11/28/04 10:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5
R
Junior Member
Junior Member
R Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5
I have been patient working on plan A for a while. couple of weeks ago I decided that since she has said nothing to me, that OI would come out and ask her. She said that she has still has been talking with the OM and also working the same scheduled trips with him. I told her she needed to cease all contact and also agree to full disclosure. Shae agreed. Later that evening, she informed me she called him and told him to never call again. She then told me she couldn't live this way and wanted a divorce. We went for about 3 weeks of not seeing each other due to her work schedule and my work schedule. I asked her where we were at once she returned. She said she just wanted to take a break and try to have fun and enjoy each other. I agreed and gave it two weeks. Tonight, I confronted her again. She still wants to avoid the discussion. I feel as if she is buying time to formulate a plan. I think its time to make here decide what she wants. I cannot continue to just sit by and wait for her to decide if she wants to be loyal and faithful to me! Anyone have some advise?


Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 250 guests, and 30 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Countfunkula, mollye14, Pansu, sakyt, George Mixflicke
72,372 Registered Users
Latest Posts
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,659
Posts2,323,613
Members72,372
Most Online9,682
May 13th, 2026
deneme bonusu
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 2025, Marriage Builders, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0