I did want to add. My best friend is very attentive. She is always her for me no matter what? But feelings didn't arise because my husband wasn't giving me the attention I need. Are you looking more into that aspect?

Ali~

<small>[ November 22, 2004, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: Ali88 ]</small>

CC,

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't know that I'm feeling ashamed. Surprised is more like it. I come from a religious, strict family, and my whole life has been unfolding with perfection. My life with my H was dream-like, up until the short time period before I began the A. So, I'm still surprised that I did cross that line. I crossed the boundaries we had agreed to, and I did it with ease.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does this sound as if you really had boundaries or where they just guideposts. You did it with ease, so there really was NOT a boundary there. You never stopped and said "as much as I like this I will NOT go there" did you?

The point here is for you to see this, consider it, and decide what you are going to do about it.

Your H may be in denial, but it is not helping him it seems. Do you two ever talk about any of this? Do you feel the need to talk to him about some of this? Do you want his help?

Must go but I do hope you think about this some.

God Bless,

JL

Ali,

Thanks for the advice about my H. I've come to accept that this is how he wants to handle it, but you're right--it may get him physically or emotionally sick down the line. I should be encouraging him to speak more. He leads a VERY busy life, so it's easy just to forget about what's happened and just move on, especially since we're getting along okay. I'll take your advice though. Thanks!

Yes, I was friends with my OW for about 8 months before the A started. We grew closer and closer, which was "normal" for me, but when we started really depending on each other a LOT and were so interested in each other's lives, and we couldn't wait to speak to each other, that's when we both knew we had feelings for each other. It DID start as any other friendship though, so it was very confusing to both of us.

You asked why I did it? I think because I felt SO comfortable with her, and we began sharing so much of each other's lives. We RAN to each other, phoning each other or emailing or IMing with any news in our day. When we would run to each other first, with good or bad news, for support or happiness, that's when I knew it was very serious. I thought of her first, and she thought of me. It felt very right. That's why I did it. She told me early on that she searched her whole life for a companion who would "hold her hand and walk beside her for life" and she didn't think she had that with her husband. Her marriage didn't turn out like she thought, and she assumed he'd walk out of her life one day. She told me that God brought us together and that she finally had someone to hold her hand. I was honored. I wanted to protect her and to make her happy and secure--things she was lacking, and quite frankly, she gave me a lot of love and support back. I didn't think it would end.

I guess that your H and I have something in common then--having the OW break your heart is very upsetting. While you're in the fog, it's all you could think about, but in the back of your mind is how horrible you've been to your spouse. So, yes, I first came on here and said how depressed and suicidal I was b/c of her, and it was hard to see beyond that and even think of my H.

I definitely see myself as the WS though, and it's hard to come to terms with. I talk about it in therapy. This whole A is SO uncharacteristic of me that it still shocks and confuses me.

I'm sorry that you're doubting your relationship with your H. You spoke about your wedding vows. I think of that too. I have our wedding picture in our bedroom, and I used to look at it and think back to that time. It was like a lifetime ago. I meant what I said BACK THEN. I still love him, but things do change. My OW said to me (after she tried to end the sex), "I meant what I said and did with you at the time." I understood what she meant, even if it hurt, because the parallels with my H were unreal. Relationships grow and change, and there are ebbs and flows. My relationship with my H started to change when I met my OW and that's how our A started. My relationship with him now is changing too. For the past 3 years I made excuses to separate myself from him and to dislike him. Now I'm finding that he's actually nice to be with again. It's all perspective, I guess.

YOu asked what I'd like from this forum and what you could do for me? I've gotten a lot out of the forum. It made me think about my husband's feelings (eventually). It makes me think about a lot of things. I guess I came here, hoping to hear a similar story, and hoping to hear how it all worked out. Six months ago, I didn't even know if I'd make it through one night. This board helped me a lot.

Lastly, you spoke about your best friend. I had many best friends and I never had a desire to cross boundaries with them. With this one friend, my feelings were definitely different--stronger and an attraction, but I KNOW I don't have those feelings for any other friend!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JL,

After I gave birth to my daughter, a close friend of ours suddenly seemed more appealing to me. I guess just the attention he gave me, or the fact that he was dashingly handsome and wealthy made me wonder what it would be like to be with him. I NEVER crossed the line. I could have, as there was underlying tension I perceived from him (he wasn't married), but I never CHOSE to or wanted to cross that line. My boundaries seemed set in stone to me. Nothing was worth it. My husband's appeal was far greater--he was a great dad and husband. Sometimes the fantasy of being with someone different is appealing, but I never wanted to actually cross that line, and I never led him or anyone else on. I've had a few chances though--friends of my H's flirting with me and making it clear that it could happen. My loyalties were with my H, and I even told him about the vibe I got from his friends! He trusted me enough to remain loyal to him, and his answer was, "They can't help themselves-you're desirable!".

You asked if I want my H's help. Good question. Yes, I think it's time that he and I start talking more about this. Six months have passed, we're getting along better, and he can't have just buried all of it, could he? He can't think that just by having a better relationship with me now, and resuming our sex life means that it never happened. I hate to open old wounds and pick at scars, but I believe we have to talk about it somewhat in order to heal. Am I wrong?? I haven't approached him on this in a long time, but maybe when the time is right, I will. Please tell me your thoughts and/or suggestions on this whenever you can.

Again, thanks everyone for your input. It's invaluable to me.

CC

Confused---I still think you have a lot of confussion about your sexuality.
But CC, if you notice posts by other FWW, you can see the very significant difference, that after four months,sometimes sooner, we are not talking so much about the OM or OW. But you are still talking so dreamily about your OW.
You still miss her way too much, for having so much time since DD. Dont you think? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
You still see too many good things in your relationship with her. CC, she really ruined your life!!!!!You are so unhappy because of what you did with her!!You are not enjoying at all what you have with your husband and children. You are ignoring your husband too much too.
Confused, if you go back in your posts, you can see that you hardly mention him. You just talk about the OW. Thats not very fair to your darling husband.
You really have to slap yourself to reality,CC. You need to seriously examine what you are doing to your life, to yourself,to your husband, to your marriage.
Eventually this is going to take a toll on your husband, he is going to get tired of waiting for you to realize your past mistake. He is being way too understanding and patient for now, but he will tired,I am sure.
Please CC, you are a very sharp woman, see what you are doing to yourself and try with all your heart to fix what you did.
Forget about that woman,she really was not a good person for your marriage. You also were not a good person to her marriage. You both did a lot of damage to each other if you think about it.
Now you are both paying the consecuences, like I am too with my husband.
Was this memorable moments that you talk about, this friendship, this bonding with her, ALL WORTH IT??
In my case, it was NOT WORTH IT, at all. I feel very insecure with my husband, with myself. My poor husband still feels so hurt.
CC....at the time of the affair, I thought I was doing nothing wrong, that it was a good thing for me.
But now, when I see the extent of the damage, the unhappiness that still prevails in our marriage, whatever fantasies I had, are completely GONE!!!!
THAT WAS THE WORST <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> MISTAKE OF MY LIFE!!!!!
IF I had realized then, what I know NOW, that would had never happened!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wish you the best CC.
Please snap out of the fantasy already!!!

MYRTA

Myrta,

First of all I talk about the OW here, because I can. I don't dwell on her in my daily life, and I don't have many places where I feel I can talk about her. She's part of the process I'm working through, and the sexuality has a lot to do with it.

Another thing I realize is that I miss the FRIENDSHIP a lot; maybe even more than the rest. I'm regretting going over that line b/c it messed up so many things. It wasn't just an affair with another man. This was different, and I feel like it's much harder to process. Besides that, I really don't like comparing any two scenarios. You can't put a timeline on someone's pain or grief. Everyone deals with things and grieves at a different pace.

Besides all of that, I'm not ignoring my H at all. Read my posts. I've indicated that he and I are getting along much better. I enjoy being with him again. The only thing I worry about is that he glossed over the affair so quickly that I know they'll be residual feelings down the line. For now though, we're getting along. I'm working on it, and so is he! Just b/c I don't mention him or our marriage here first doesn't mean it's not a priority to me. I just can't talk about the A or the OW with a lot of other people.

Thanks for your push, Myrta. I don't think I'm still living in the "fantasy" anymore. I am re-thinking my choices and I don't know if I'd do them again. They've hurt him, me, my children, the OW and her whole family. But, still, I DO miss her and I think I will for a long time. It was so much more than an affair--it was a close, serious relationship that began as good friends. I miss it. I'm dealing with that loss though and I think I'm doing just fine.

Thanks for your input. Happy holidays!!

CC

CC,

Give your last post I think it is time that your H became your close friend again don't you? IF you agree what would you do with a close friend? You would talk to this friend and discuss your difficulties, your confusion, your hopes, your fears, your...

I think it is time that you and your H started having talks about the A. Not so much to deal with the details of what you/she did together, but to start the healing. He may ask you questions once this starts, if he does, be honest but be honest in a caring way. If you must tell him something painful, hold his hand when you do it. If you need him to hold you, then ask him to.

I do believe that if you will allow your H to be your close friend again many of the feelings you have will fade. You won't forget the OW, but the feelings associated with the memories will fade and be easier for you to handle.

It is time you fully brought your H back into your life, and that means discussing your thoughts, fears, desires, hopes, and plans and yes even the OW and her affect on you. Some of this will hurt him, but I suspect he will see the growth in your relationship due to this pain.

Something else to think about.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

Thanks (again!) for the enlightenment! If I haven't indicated it, my H *has* been becoming my close friend again. He's once again the one I run to to tell things to. I'm probably driving him crazy, with more time on my hands to talk to him and bounce ideas off of him, etc., but I think he's enjoying it, judging by how much closer we seem.

The only point of difficulty is in mentioning the A or my OW. I think that I might need to push my H a little more into going back to his own therapy. He has come a long way, but I sense him just trying to shut out this part of our lives. I *will* take into consideration that I should hold his hand or be tender with him when discussing her. Thank you for the reminder.

Funny, I saw my therapist today, and we discussed my birthday and how I said it was tinged with that sadness of my missing the OW. I told her that it began nicely with my H though and only when I remembered about missing the OW did it become a little sad. She told me that I'll probably do even better next year, and I should remember that it WILL get better. Good thing to remember, because when I'm feeling sad or guilty about it, I seem to convince myself that I'll never get out of that state of mind.

Had a nice evening tonight. Went shopping (for Thanksgiving dinner) with my H and then had a family night, watching "Elf" with the kids and my H. Nice...

Thanks again for the input. I'm sure things will come up during this highly-charged holiday!!

CC

I totally agree with JL.

I am concerned about what you wrote that you come her to post about the feelings you have for the OW. By posting here, you are still very much concentrating on the OW. Almost as if you are rewarding yourself to post the feelings about her. You are keeping the A. very much alive along with the missed feelings. Make sense? This site is to rebuild your marriage. We are here to help you and your husband become a couple again.

I did want to ask you about what you said about your marriage in one of your posts. I believe you said that you had a dream marriage. Or something to that fact. I am curious if your M was so much like that, why did you cross over? To me that is like living in fantasy and saying naaa this isn't for me, I would rather go live with a person who treats me bad etc. So, are you being honest with yourself when you mentioned that you had a dream marriage? I know I would not want to jeopardize my M. to sleep with someone.

CC, there is more to this than what you are posting. It just doesn't make sense? You were happy with your H. But you had a friendship with another women that turned into an affair. You loved being with your OW and you loved being with your H. Now you are upset because H. is acting in some sort of denial because of your A. and you still miss that feeling you had with OW. Do you want your cake and eat it too? You don't feel ashamed. Which to me is shocking. I noticed a lot of the FWS here do feel ashamed for what they had put their S. through. That worries me that you don't. I think you are in some sort of denial. I really do. Do you think your A. was wrong?

I run to my best friend all the time. I sometimes tell her things that I don't dare tell my husband. I mean girlie things. I can count on her and we share a lot of the same feelings. She is my best friend. I find that I talk to her on the phone at least an hour and half every other day, talking about who the heck knows what? I think that maybe you got confused with a really close friendship. I love my best friend. I am not in love with her. If anything happened to her, I would feel that I just lost a part of me. Could it possible be that you had a strong friendship and you took those feelings the wrong way? Was this her first lesbian experience too? If she doesn't want anything to do with you, I think that she realizes she made a wrong choice and would like to regain control of her life again. I think that you need to do that too. Because if you are waiting to post about how good she made you feel, obviously you are not where your are saying you are in your life. She is in the back of your head consistantly.

I just read a lot of denial. So really what is wrong?

Ali~

Ali,

I'll briefly answer your post and then I have to head to bed (H's request!).

You asked me if I had a dream marriage, when did I "cross over"? I said in previous posts that during the last couple of years of our marriage, things slowly changed. I attributed it to just getting older. H was busy with work, and more and more unable to switch into calm mode at home. This was a total turnoff to me. I had tried to get him to do things for himself, by himself that I thought would lessen his burden (exercising, seeing friends...), but he hardly listened to me. He began getting confused as to why I didn't want to be with him much. It was because I sensed SO much tension from him that it made me feel uncomfortable, and even though I tried to lessen it, it was still there, so my answer was to quietly back off. I began confiding more and more in my OW and she and I became closer and closer.

As far as my other best friends go, they sound like your relationships. I never had a friendship as STRONG as the one I had with my OW. Maybe that was a clue that it was more than a friendship from the beginning? I don't know. I'm not as DEPENDENT on my other friends as I was with her. My relationships with them are all moderate and not too obsessive, as it was with her.

Yes, it was her first lesbian experience too. At least that's what she told me. While she admitted to thinking about what it would be like to be with a woman, she never wanted to experience it until she met me. I told her that the thought never, ever even crossed my mind, and in fact, it repulsed me. Strange...

I'm not "upset" that my H isn't willing to talk about my OW or the A. I'm just beginning to get a little worried that it might just build and come out later. I think it would be healthier and our relationship would stand a better chance if this were all talked out NOW rather than later.

Yup, I was told by my OW that I "wanted my cake and to eat it too". I was confident that I could have it all, because I seemed to be able to keep both of them happy. It was naive. I guess knowing that I had a dream-like marriage, I knew in the back of my mind that I'd always have my H on my side, routing for our relationship. Selfish, I know!!! And, it might bite me in the @$$ one day too for all I know! So, I wasn't thinking that I was "jeopardizing" my marriage while I was in the A. I rationalized it by saying that if I told him (or if he found out), he'd be accepting of it.

You are absolutely right about the OW. She realized that our affair was a mistake and she was trying to regain control over her life, as much as it hurt her.

I don't want to post about how good she made me feel. That's obvious, or I wouldn't have carried on with the A for a few years! It *had* to mean a lot to us both to carry on for that long.

I just want to figure out a lot--things about me (like why or how I did cross over the line and have the A; like how I could have even done that with a woman; like how I had such disregard for my H...), and I want to feel good within my marriage again. I'm trying to do that by spending time with my H, by spending time with my whole little family, by finding ME in all of this again, and by finding happiness in each day. I'm trying...

CC

CC, I sort of resist posting to you because you are so stuck where I was and not that long ago either.

CC, all of us FWS' felt we had a "special" friendship, all of us thought it was a "special relationship."

But what I have learned is that it was NOT real. Mature love is so, so much more than what you get in an A. The difference between mature love and limerence (see,it even has a name) is that mature love is lasting and deep and gets you through the good times and the bad times.

It's the "true" love story, more than any A.

And, I bet you're reading this and thinking, yes, but that's what I had with the OW. You saw yourself reflected in the OW and the "you" you saw looked pretty damn good, not the everyday, real you that your H sees.

She has seen where her true future lies and it isn't with you.

CC, I really hope you can see this soon. It will make you so much happier. Do you know how good it is not to be tied up in all this any more. It's so liberating, to just not feel miserable all the time.

Hugs to you, CC, I do understand but I'm just so much further along I keep wanting to say "get there". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jen

ConfusedC- I am sorry about comparing your situation with the rest of FWWs. You are right, everyone processes things differently at their own speed.
But what Iwas trying to say, is that you should be a bit further along in your recovery. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
CC...if you really loved her, and value her friendship you will let her go. Because true love, is letting go, when you have to.
If you know that your actions are not good for her or for you, you will let go.
Love is not selfish.
If you really think that was the love of your life, your soulmate, let it go, and think it as something beautiful,yes, but IMPOSSIBLE to have. There is too much already in your life and hers, you already had lives, and too many people will be destroyed. She already realized this, thats why she has stopped all contact. I am sure she still thinks about you, but she is dealing with reality n ow, and she knows, it will never work out!
Yes, you mention your husband once in a while, but you always say , that you had been busy with remodeling, that he is busy at work, that you really had not talk about the affair. Like JL you both need to talk about what happened and deal with it. You cannot continue ignoring that something is not right between you.
Well, I am sorry if I offended you with my words CC, not my intention here. I just want you to be happier and more in peace with yourself. It seems like you are not!
Take care

MYRTA

Kiwi,

It's good to hear from other FWW's. It helps me see similarities as well as differences.

What you said about my situation with my OW wasn't us though. It wasn't all great and fantasy. We truly helped each other through bad times as well as good. Mature love was saying, "I know you love me but you're still with him and you love him, so you have to be with him, spend some time with him, spend family time, etc." In the beginning, I actually encouraged better communication between them. Heck, maybe I did my job and their relationship WAS repaired in the end!

She certainly saw in me the everyday me that my H sees; actually MORESO. She had this uncanny knack of getting to my core and talking to me more about the real me than anyone ever has. Maybe it was the distance, and the internet and phone, but it seemed to fast-forward our relationship by years.

What you said, "She has seen where her future lies and it isn't with you," is what had me suicidal 6 months ago. I couldn't understand nor accept that statement to be true when she reassured me of everything BUT that all along. I think I"m accepting it more and more and I truly understand why she made that choice. Her family came first. It always did. She didn't want anything to detract from that. When I became a threat to it, she cut all ties. I understand that, but the rest was hard to process.

I guess that I haven't gotten to the point where I'm saying, "This was for the best. It was a mistake. Now I can repair my life and move on..." I'm certainly not there yet. I still hold onto believing that she WAS something very, very special in my life, despite all the misery she's brought into it. I cannot accept that it was for nothing. I had to learn something pretty darned huge out of this. I didn't go through all of that love, despair and emotion for nothing. It was something BIG. Putting it all in perspective now is the only difficult part, but I'm trying. Hopefully I'll get there. Thanks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Myrta,

I'm sorry I'm not further along in my recovery, like everyone thinks I should be. Typical; I'm usually the "worst case scenario" with many things!!

Thanks for saying what you did about true love. I'm trying so hard to just let her go. I've made enormous strides. Going from writing in excess of 20 emails a day (both of us) and spending HOURS on the phone every day, and communicating every few hours to each other, to no communication was a HUGE step. It was shocking. Now I don't communicate with her (except for the rare occasion when I STRONGLY thought of her and tried to email) at all. At a time, I was even writing things down but not sending them to her. I've moved on. Now I'm writing down questions and things to work on in my M instead.

A part of me believes that one day I'll hear from her again. Our bond felt SO close that I think that'll happen, and I don't know how I'd respond. I certainly wouldn't be overjoyed or run away with her (even if that was HER intention), but to hear some kind of acceptance or redeemption is my dream. I also know in reality that she HAD to move on and cut me out, or her life there wouldn't work. She's doing what she had to do to keep her family intact. I understand that. So, I also know that it's the end of that chapter of "us" too...

Yes, my H is a very busy man, and we haven't sat down to talk much about the A. Hopefully we can, when he's ready, or when I think he's ready! For now, I'm grateful that he and I are a team, and we're working together towards our goals. We're getting along and we're happy to spend time together again, which says a lot!! I just hope that I recover those head-over-heels in love feelings that I once had for him. For now, I'm just getting by... It'll take much more work.

Thanks again for your input. I have a busy day of cleaning, shopping and cooking to do in order to prepare for tomorrow's entertaining. I hope that you all have a happy, healthy Thanksgiving.

CC

OK! For starters. Stop calling her MY OW!
It makes it sound like you own her or you are still in a relationship with her.

I am not sure how old you are. But with life, things do change. I am in my early thirties. OK maybe my mid now (gulp)(total denial) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and I have been with my husband since I was 18. I married him when I was 26. There were many changes between us. In the beginning it was great. At school, giving me lots of attention. Feeling like we owned the world. No responsibility. Then his career took place. OK, feeling a little behind but I was still in his world as well as he was in mine. Then we moved in together, got an apartment. Back to fantasy land. Just us. Freedom! But more responsiblity was taking over. New cars, bills, job. I owned a horse, making sure I paid the board bill. But it was great because we really didn't have to answer to each other the way we do now. Sex at all hours of the night, mornings, weekends. It was great. I mean, how often can I say that? Then he got promoted to a major important position. We got married, moved out of state, bought our first home. My H. wasn't around as much. But I knew that he had major responsibilities. He sometimes was withdrawn, stressed, he had to wear a beeper and was consistantly beeped in all hours of the night. Then, I got pregnant. Talk about major change! But you see, I knew at the time life is about changes. You can't help it! Sure I would LOVE to go back in time where I felt like I was on a pedistal with him. Yes, when he came home he was beginning to feel trapped in his position and was cranky or a major a$$, I found it to be a turn off too. But I didn't take it personally. I knew that this was very stressful on him. Don't get me wrong, I wanted to through him out the window several times. But you are dealing with a persons feelings. Maybe he needed you and you weren't responsive to his needs. If he is with drawing himself, you need to be there and let him know that you are open. He doesn't trust you! You betrayed him. So if he doen't open up to you, don't walk away and say, "well I tried. He isn't talking." Right now he doesn't trust you with his feelings. You have to respect that. Things are not ever going to be the way it was. Or the attention is not going to be the same. That is just life. You have to learn to be patient. Starfish, wrote a wonderful post on my thread. She tells you what you go through when you first meet someone. The chemistry side of the brain. Maybe you should read it? That will give you another idea of the "love" you had with this OW.
Do you really believe she was your soul mate? Come on now? Really? Go back to the very beginning of your relationship with your H. and compare the beginning of each. I bet they were very much alike.

Just remember it is not about you anymore! YOu need to be 1000% to him and not think about what you want. Not saying your needs don't matter, you need to fulfull his needs and stop comparing the OW to your husband. I know you are in your head!

Have a great Turkey Day!

Ali~

Ali~

<small>[ November 24, 2004, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Ali88 ]</small>

I've moved on.

Really? From what I've read here, you sound like you're still deeply in love and obsessed with her. If you can give this kind of attention and regard to your H, then you should do very well with your M.

I see how harsh people are getting with you here and in some ways rightly so, but I also know you are still a bit naive so let me shed some of my experience on this situation.
I have been the WWS and I have done it more than once and to be honest, I could have felt serious depression over the loss of the affair, but instead I focused on how blessed I am that I even have a husband who has the capacity to forgive me. SOme aren't so lucky.

I think it took me a shorter period of time to get over the guy I was with because #1, I stopped all contact with him, #2, I immersed myself in my family life and got reaquainted with them. (after all, when you are deep in an affair, it's hard to be there for your family) I started taking dance classes, auditioned for a musical, started going to bible study, started sitting down to watch movies with my husband while sniggling on the couch etc. Sure I got those feelings of missing the BF, but the closer I drew to H, the easier it was to get over. The one thing I have never done though, is look back and feel sorry for myself or for the guys for that matter. If I should feel sorry for anyone, it's my H and my son, my friends who I shrugged off during the time of the affair, my mother, father etc. I hurt all of them way more than a short lived affair could have hurt me.

One last thing I wanted to point out is that she told you that you were everything to her that her husband wasn't and you said you could see that when you met him, well keep in mind that most affairs are based on lies and deciept. I also told my BF's that my husband was controlling and unloving, didn't listen to me etc- it was all lies! I just wanted sympathy and I wanted them to draw closer to me. Also, by the time you met him, those statements probably were true, because she was pulling away from him, so he did the same thing.

Lastly, you seem to still think that they are in the same status now as they were. remember that it has been over 6 months and they may be an entirely different couple now. SHe probably isn't returning your emails and things because she is happy now with her life and her H, so she really doesn't want to talk to you. That's how I feel about my ex BF's. I just don't care about them anymore, because my husband is better than them to me. Maybe he wasn't always, but he is now.

My best advice to you is to start focusing on your immediate family and your recovery and if it hurts to remember her, then everytime she comes to mind, ask God to take those memories away and quickly change thoughts. It does work!

Good luck to you.

CC,

I know you don't want to hear from me anymore, so I won't address anything you have posted in this thread. Rather, I shall pose a more general question to the others that are participating in this thread. I'm posting it here, rather than in a separate post, as I think it has relevance to your situation as well.

CC is getting the occasional advice to think of the OP in her situation as someone who hurt her, someone who did her "wrong," and someone that she should look at as a proverbial enemy. It seems that some people think this is the train of thought that one must attain in order for her to "get over" her OW and move on with her marriage.

My question is simple. Is that really necessary? In my situation, I don't see the OM as the person in the wrong. I save that label for myself. *I* was the one who made my own choices. The choices were bad, not the people. The situation was wrong and inappropriate.

I feel that if we blame the OP, then we could easily fall back into the trap of another A. All it would take is another person to meet the needs (whatever they may be in your individual case), and you are ripe for another affair.

I look to myself as the root cause of my affair. I don't even look to my husband, who was not attending to our marriage at the time. His mistakes or lack of forethought did not CAUSE this affair. *I* did.

I look to myself as someone who made the choice to offer myself to another person. It wasn't that the other person was a trickster. The other person didn't say all the right things and blind-side me. The other person didn't move those proverbial boundaries that JL spoke about. I DID. I stepped over my own personal boundaries. And the boundaries of my marriage.

Since I was the person in my A that initiated NC, I would like to think that the OM doesn't see me as manipulative, hurtful, mean, or anything else like that. He has not tried to contact me, so I don't really know. But I like to think that he knows that I am trying to do what is best for everyone, that's all. If I ever found out that he thought badly of me, then I have to say that it wouldn't really matter to me. My focus is only on doing what is right. For me, my marriage, my family, and yes, even for his family. But I do not make any of my decisions based on what he did back then, or what he might think or do now.

Simply put, I will not allow someone to have that kind of control over me. It's not easy to accept the old adage, but you have to: you made your bed, now you lie in it.

Wow, I come back here just to check this thread, and I'm amazed at how many responses there are lately. While I don't have too much time today to sit down and even think about anything, I'll try to answer these...

Ali,

I'll stop referring to her as "my OW". I'll try to remember to call her "the OW". Labels--they're all so stupid anyway! I hate trying to put somebody in a category!

I'm in my early 40's. I've been through the same things you have. Each period of my life seems like a separate period. We keep on growing and changing. But I don't expect to go back to the time when my H and I were first falling in love. Sure, there's enough left in our relationship that makes us WANT to stay together, but it's not going to be all tingly and exciting every day! I'm not having any false hopes there... (and it wasn't even that way with the OW either!).

I'll try to stop comparing my H to the OW. It is hard--they both possess many similarities...

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SAB,
Again, I post here about the OW, but she's really not such a HUGE presence in my daily life anymore. I'll try to continue putting time and energy into my relationship with my H and spend less and less time even thinking of her. Thanks.

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mismindles,
Like you, I'm spending more time with my H and my children--something I RARELY did for the past 3 years, and when I did, I always had the OW on my brain, so I really wasn't "there" anyway! We're watching movies, playing games, entertaining, etc. It's a slow process but I think they're enjoying my time again with them and it DOES make me think of the OW less and less.

I don't think that the OW lied about her relationship with her H. I wasn't suckered in. I saw firsthand how he treated her. Although they appeared to be close (like friends) there wasn't much more to it and she almost seemed shunned by him. Their relationship might be totally different now. Maybe she got what she wanted--HIM, totally. I know it's always what she wanted-she told me so. All she wanted was a chance to have a GOOD relationship with her "children's father". So, if she got that as a result of getting my attention and making him jealous to the point of waking him up, then I'm happy for her. I'm just horrified that I had to be a part of that for it to happen!

I'm sure she doesn't want contact with me because she wants to try to make her marriage work. She's able to give it all she can and try to make it work. She can't have me in the picture AT ALL if he was to forgive her. I totally understand that.

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Faithfully,
Glad you wrote since you had something to say. I agree, that I can't pain the OW as "evil" just so that I could move on. After all, we wouldn't have had such a long relationship if she were all evil. It was MY choice as well as hers, and our responsibility was 50/50.

I, too, am looking at myself as the cause of the affair. That's why I'm in therapy, and it's why I'm trying to figure things out about me. The sexuality aspect is just one more confusion thrown in there. I know full well that if I don't figure out what I was lacking and HOW I could have crossed that line, it could happen again, although I say that I would NEVER do it again. I didn't think it would ever happen to begin with though!! I'm also trying to repair what I have with my H so that I'm not lacking anything, nor looking towards anyone else to fulfill that, but I need to be happy with ME too.

She has had a LOT of power over me, and it's one thing that scared me. I admit that *I* gave her that power though. I'm trying, daily, to totally let go and think well of her and see it as an experience that's in the past. It's still hard on some days, but I honestly think it's getting a little easier day by day.

Thanks again everyone for posting here. Happy Thanksgiving!

CC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It was MY choice as well as hers, and our responsibility was 50/50.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, you missed my point. Your responsibility was 100%. Her responsibility was 100%, but that's not YOUR problem.

I'm glad you're looking at the cause of your affair. I think you'd be best served to stop thinking just about the affair, but about ALL of your personal choices. But that's JMO.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Maybe she got what she wanted--HIM, totally. I know it's always what she wanted-she told me so. All she wanted was a chance to have a GOOD relationship with her "children's father". So, if she got that as a result of getting my attention and making him jealous to the point of waking him up, then I'm happy for her. I'm just horrified that I had to be a part of that for it to happen!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why are you so horrified? Did she trick you into the affair? Did you get/take nothing from it?

<small>[ November 24, 2004, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: FaithfullyHoping ]</small>

Faithfully,

(I'm panting b/c I'm in the middle of my chores here, just taking a short break! LOL)

I"m "horrified" because she assured me that although that was her ultimate wish, she'd "never get it", so she was very happy with what I provided to her. She used to constantly tell me, "Stop worrying about what will NEVER happen with him!". She used to worry about me too--that I'd realize our A was a mistake and I'd go back to having a fairy-tale-like life with my H. She was extremely jealous of his doting on me and of his unending love for me-something she said she could never compete with. I'd have to assure her that she "had my heart".

Anyway, I'm horrified if this was indeed some plan of hers--to make him jealous so that he'd have a renewed interest in her. She always told me that he never cared if she even said anything that could be construed as flirting with their male friends, because no one would take her seriously, being a very overweight person. She told me that her H didn't look at her like she was a sexual person or any kind of a threat to anyone. I'm sure that when he found out how much I cared about her, he was in shock, and maybe it DID renew his interest in her. I just wouldn't have liked to be any part in a plan, if that's what it was. Make sense??

CC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Anyway, I'm horrified if this was indeed some plan of hers--to make him jealous so that he'd have a renewed interest in her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So what if it were? Would that make you less accountable for YOUR actions? You SEEM like an intelligent woman. Why would you get involved with someone who was merely USING you?

CC, get real. That's not what it was. You still profess undying love for her. This is just another way for you to justify your own actions.

In an earlier post you went on about how you drifted away from your H because he was overly involved in work. Perhaps this concept of USING the OW could be applied to you as well. You USED her for the friendship, relationship, and sexuality that you were not receiving from your H at the time.

This is why I said you are 100% responsible for YOUR affair. It wasn't 50/50. You clearly were not on the fence as to whether you would have wanted to be involved with her. You've said over and over again how smitten you were.

And she is 100% responsible for HER actions in her affair. The only difference is that she has taken responsibility for it by ending the A, and you have not. Yet.