Faithfully,

Although I'm SO tired (and I've had a glass of wine), I can't process entirely what you said, but I thank you...

You are exactly right!! That IS why I took up with her, and I'm 100% responsible for my choice, no matter what her intention was. You're right again, I'm pretty bright, and I doubt she had it in mind to "use" me. It was what it was. We were both smitten; we both got a lot out of it, and she ended it. That part is hard for me, but I'm trying, harder and harder each day to accept it and to move on.......

Thanks!

CC

I'm jumping in again....

CC,

First she is not the OW, your H is the BS, and you are the WS and that's it. You act like she's the one who betrayed you. You know what???? She didn't betray you, you betrayed yourself. You betrayed your husband just like she betrayed her husband. Your are the WS, your H is the BS and believe it or not, the OW is your H's not yours. Did your H betray you? You need to get off this fantasy island and get on the reality train, your relationship with her was lies and that's it plain and simple, nothing more and nothing less. What you got from her was not real. You have to realize this and you're not ready to. You talk about being over her and in the next sentence you are all over it again, you should be writing that much about your H. You are focused on her and that focus should be saved for your M because you're still betraying your H. You should put the focus you make on the OW, and put it on your marriage. Your H deserves more and so do your children.

CC,

You have talked at great length about for feelings for your XGF and your relationship with her. You've glanced upon how your M is improving. However, you've said very little about how your H and your children are feeling, doing, responding, etc. How has this affected and continue to affect them? What about them?

<small>[ November 26, 2004, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: SAB ]</small>

The more I read this the more confused I become.
She knows what she did was "wrong." She post on here the she takes the responsibility. But what is she doing about it now? But saying it and acting on it is two different things.

There is always the perfect answer for everything.
"I now what I did was wrong but...."

We cannot give you the answers to why you did it. You know why you did it and you don't want to admit this to yourself! Sometimes truth hurts and you think of a 1000 different reasons or excuses to avoid the reality. If you admit the truth to yourself, you might see yourself as unconfident and selfish with a low esteem. You come off as confident but I just wonder if that is a front?

Hearbroken,

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep it in mind.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SAB,

Good, thought-provoking questions. My H is doing well. He is appreciating the extra time and attention he's been getting from me. He seems to be happier and happier. He's mentioned that he's beginning to see the "old me" again. He doesn't really talk about the A or about "her", so I don't really know how he's feeling about it. From everything he tells me, he seems to be adjusting well and he's very accepting, loving and happy right now.

My children are doing very well. They're also both glad to have more time and attention from me. I'm finding that we're spending more time as a family to do things. We just watched a movie together tonight--something I rarely did while in the A (I'd use every excuse not to spend too much time with them, in favor of spending all time and energy with "her"). My daughter JUST said to me the other night, "Mom, I'm so proud of you. You're doing so much better lately. You're not mentioning HER anymore and you seem happier." That made me happy. I even mentioned it in therapy. My therapist told me that my daughter is very intuitive. My children were always very verbal about ALL of their feelings!! I always know where they stand, and right now they're happy to see me a little happier. They don't know the details of the A (we agreed not to tell them), but they know how close SHE and I were, and they know that I missed her greatly and was depressed 6 months ago. They're happy to see progress being made. Thanks for asking!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ali,

Hmm, I'm trying to figure out if I do know why I entered into the A. I could easily justify it, as I think I've done here a few times. I was entering into my own more, my H was distracted and tense more, and I forged a friendship with someone who eventually took up more time and gave me more and more support, and it turned into an A. That much I know. WHY I crossed that line is probably that I was weak and it was enticing, and it was easy (the internet wasn't as "real"). Even meeting her in real life was very easy for me, probably because we had spent a LOT of time on the phone and internet at that point. We shared things that would have taken years in real life to share.

I'm trying to think through your statement about my possibly being "unconfident, selfish and having low self esteem". Well, when I entered into the relationship with HER, I was none of those things. I had many friends, good relationships and MUCH confidence. I was very, very self-assured. I had very high self-esteem. My relationship with her changed all of that in me though!! I have NEVER suffered such self-esteem battering as I did during the past year or so. Ever!!! And I have been through many traumatic things in my life, which only served to make me stronger. I've never been weak or doubted my self-esteem.

Selfish? Yes, I admit that I am, but I never saw that as a fault. I'm steadfast in believing that all women (and especially mothers) need to be a tad selfish. I have a small piece of me FOR ME. I value me, and I always did. That doesn't mean that I put myself before others. It just means that I'm nice to myself.

Did I become more selfish when I entered into the A? Definitely!! I had the A for me! It was the most selfish thing I had ever done! While I could say that I entered into it partially for "her", I did it for me too. That feeling of being supremely "high" and loved was purely selfish.

Anyway, no, it's not a "front". I'm pretty confident in myself. Always have been. I can make snap decisions and never have to doubt myself nor look back. That is, until the A!! That one decision was something I now see wasn't the best decision.

Thanks for your input, all. Again, please keep in mind that I don't speak about the A or about "her" in my daily life. It's only here, when I discuss these things that things come to light. She's not on the forefront of my life anymore. My family, my H and my well-being are. All I can say is that I'm trying, every day, to make sense of it and to make it better.

CC

Well, then, Aren't you the perfect little person with the perfect marriage! Highly confident, self worth people with a very high self esteem do not go into affairs. So what your husband didn't give you tons of attention. He cannot be attentive to you 100% all the time. That is totally unrealistic. Apparently, you were feeling insecure and "left out" when your husband couldn't meet your needs because he had his mind on his job! You should have been there for him because he probably needed you more than you needed him. You became selfish because he wasn't putting all the attention on to you that you are so used to. So your attitude sub-conscientiously became, "Well screw him, this women pays more attention to me." It sounds like you need to be doted over all the time. You are an attention seeker. You only feel loved if you have all the attention. You bring that to yourself. Personality? You said people like to be around you. You set the situation up that way. I am not saying that there is any thing wrong with that but you have become so caught up with that, that it is becoming a major fault in your life. A dependent issue.
Yes, we as mothers need to have time for us to take care of ourselves. Not to be selfish.
How can you say selfish is not a fault? Meeting our needs is not selfish when it is not done to hurt people. I tell my H. that I am taking a day off for me to relax. OK that means he might have to do some extra work around the house and be more attentive to the kids. But nobody is getting hurt in the process. Well not mentally that is! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
If you use this forum to talk about your feelings about the OW then you are totally missing the boat to what this forum is all about. That is why I suggested keeping a journal. You can use substitutes if you are affaid that your kids might stumble upon it. But the point of journaling is so that you can see your feelings and read your feelings from a different aspect. Then you can look back and see yourself in a way that you couldn't before. I journaled all through highschool and parts of college. I still have them and I look back and think, gee what was I thinking then. It is also a great release. It helped me when my H's A. came out. Funny, I was using his journal that I bought him to use when he was living out of state. By a safe with a lock and lock it up. A lot of therapist suggest journaling too.

If OW is not on your mind as much as you say, then why do you come on here? Just curious! I think she is on your mind more than you admit! Otherwise you wouldn't be on her discussing your feelings about here.

Well, the snow has melted and I need to go put up our Christmas lights outside. Is it 23 more days until Christmas? Ug!

I am not trying to come off harsh. But I think you need a huge reality check.

Ali~

Did you ever purchase the book Back from Betrayal by Suzy Farbsman? You might see yourself in Suzy's Husband. The two of you hava a lot in common. Just like you and my husband. You ought to read his posts and get another point of view. Hit seach abouve this thread and hit number 26649. I know you will see a lot of yourself in him

Ali,

Nope, I think you have it wrong. I wasn't expecting my husband's attention all that much. I wasn't crying or whining or even missing his attention. He became more withdrawn and more tense because of work. It might also be because he buries things and doesn't address them. He's pretty passive/aggressive that way. I *did* try to help him out. I tried to relieve some tension by helping him as much as I could with his work. I tried to FORCE him to take time for himself to unwind. I tried to do more family oriented things and things for just him and I to do, but at that point his only source of relief was working.

At that time I started to think about ME more. I dieted, exercised and took better care of myself. I "found" the internet. I found my friend. I did become immersed in her life and it turned into a full-fledged affair after many months of friendship. I wasn't seeking anyone's attention that I wasn't getting from my husband. Believe me, I have had (and still do have) MANY friends and family members waiting to spend time with me. NOT to make that sound big-headed of me, but I was busy enough with my own children, husband, his job, etc., that I never spread myself thin, so I didn't spend too much time/attention away from my family.

The thing you're most wrong about is my NEEDING attention. I've always been self-assured. When I met the OW, I didn't need her attention or adulation. When I did get it, and I got used to it, it did powerful things to me. I *did* come to depend on it, and when she pulled back, I freaked out. First time ever!!!!!! Her word was all I wanted to hear. Couldn't think of how it was before her. I did come to depend on her--totally, fully, completely. I can't explain why. I don't know why her opinion mattered SO much to me, or why my self-esteem hinged only on her. It's strange for me!

The OW is still on my mind, but not daily, like she was. Not a moment went by where I wouldn't think of her. Now it's fewer and further in between. Things like the holidays coming up, or being reminded of her send a sickening feeling to me instantly. We were close. Very close. But I'm not spending too much time figuring things out about her or pining away for what I'm missing with her. She made her choices clear, and they don't involve me, as much as that hurt. I am trying to spend my time and energy on my family more. We're watching movies together, playing games, etc... My H and I are spending more time together too, but it's a long process to get back to having any confidence.

No, I never read that book. I'll put it on my list. Thanks. Thanks for the "harsh" reality check. I'm trying.........

CC

I've always been self-assured.

A little too self-assured perhaps brinking on the edge of conceit in this case.

... when she pulled back, I freaked out. First time ever!!!!!! Her word was all I wanted to hear. Couldn't think of how it was before her. I did come to depend on her--totally, fully, completely. I can't explain why. I don't know why her opinion mattered SO much to me, or why my self-esteem hinged only on her. It's strange for me!

It's called an addiction. Obsession.

I'm glad your family seems to be better with you around more. It's what isn't said that worries me. There's no anger or resentment from any of them? Why? If I fail to live up to my children's expectations, they certainly don't mince words telling me so. Like you said, children are intuitive. Something is bothering about this scenario. It sounds too good to be true. Is that because it probably is? For you and your family's sake, I hope I'm wrong.

SAB,

My children and my H all expressed their anger and disappointment DURING my A (even though they weren't positive of it being an A). They wanted my time and attention and were very demanding of me back then, and I used every excuse not to be with them, and to spend my time with the OW. I think that they went through the anger and all of those emotions back then. When the OW stopped contact with me, and I went into depression, they were extremely supportive of me, but at the same time I'm sure that they were relieved that she was gone. Now they're just happy to have me around more. Does that make sense??

My children and my H haven't once reminded me of how wrong I was for spending so much time with her. It's all been said and done to death, so they're really just happy it's over.

I disagree with you about my self-confidence. I've NEVER been cocky about it at all. I even took it for granted. It's just whom I was and how I performed in life. I didn't have a false sense of myself and didn't have a bloated self-esteem. I was just confident and happy, usually!

Makes sense about my "obsession" of the OW, and that's why I came to depend on her every word and opinion. We were so entangled in each other's lives that it easily became an obsession. She was more able to pull back and get at least some perspective, so I don't think that she's suffered such a loss of dependence as I did. But, you're right... I don't know how or when I became to depend on her or obsess about her so much, and I hope that that trait NEVER happens again in me. It's something I have to work on...

I have to go start my Christmas decorating. It's a HUGE undertaking here, with all of our traditions. I'll be back when I can. Thanks.

CC

You take the responsibility but it is all justified in your answers! For instance..."I know what "I" did was wrong....BUT....."

So do you need help with your relationship with your H? We can help you there. But trying to figure this A. out and what she did to you is another thing.

Why is your confidence so low? You both sound like you played off of each others feelings.
You knew that something like your A could ever amount to anything. So a highly confident married women, meets OW, has an A., is dumped and now has a low self esteem? More to this story and you are not being honest with yourself.

Again, you were insecure. I don't by it for one minute that you weren't. Secure, confident people don't have affairs. Period! It sounded like you had everything going for you. But you became selfish and thought all about yourself when husban was at a low in his life. There was no patience on your end. It goes back to my post above!. Come on CC. You can't help yourself if you are not honest. I see right through you and so do a lot of people on this message board. We all cannot be wrong! ???

Ali~

I glad to read that you are putting more time into your family.

<small>[ November 29, 2004, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: Ali88 ]</small>

Ali,

I meant to tell you that I started reading through some of your husband's posts. Thanks for that link. I DO find it helpful.

You must be incredibly strong to even want to talk to me (being the WW). I'd think that it would hit too close to home, reminding you of your H. I hope that one day I'll be healed and strong enough to help other people...

As for your last post, I'll try to answer it. I don't know that I need any help with my H right now. You people have given me enough good ideas in that department. I'm trying to spend time with him, and to get him to open up and to feel safe in questioning me and talking about the A. So far, no good. We're getting along better every day, but he's not willing to talk about it AT ALL. I'm just grateful that we're getting along so well, and I'm hoping to get the romance back stronger and stronger. In time...

As far as what you said, "Why is your confidence so low? You both sound like you played off of each others feelings. You knew that something like your A could ever amount to anything. So a highly confident married women, meets OW, has an A., is dumped and now has a low self esteem? More to this story and you are not being honest with yourself," that's not how I felt. At one time, we both honestly entertained the POSSIBLE thought of having a life together after our children were grown. We even discussed the location of where we'd live. I didn't ever think it would amount to nothing. I was always confident that she'd be in my life in some important way. If not as my lover or spouse, then as my best friend, always. I NEVER entertained the thought of it ending like it did. Naive? Definitely!!!!!

I'm sorry, but you ARE wrong. I didn't abandon my H in any way when I began this friendship. I wasn't looking for anything more, nor was my self-esteem low. She was attracted to me because of my self-esteem and because she viewed my life as being "perfect" and what she'd want. I know in my heart that nothing's as perfect as it seems, and I had my own little difficulties in my life, but it was pretty damned nice and she knew that. I *was* secure and confident when I met her. My confidence started to shatter when she pulled back. Maybe because it was all a shock? Maybe because I've been so used to being spoiled by my H and by many, many people in my life?? I've had a few people break my heart (young love, etc, and my first real boyfriend, at 18 years of age), but NOTHING like this. This shook my world and made me doubt everything. I thought she knew me, probably even better than my H knew me. She got me to open up and talk about things that even he didn't know. Things I held very private to me, that he and I touched on but I made it clear to him not to go further. She got through to me, and I did the same for her. I can't tell you what a strong, unusual bond that was for me. I've never trusted anyone like I did with her. My instincts were telling me that she was a soulmate and I could trust her. I was wrong-very, very wrong. I told her dreams, secrets and I gave her my heart, and it was all shattered. That's why my self-esteem took a beating. I was out there, on a limb, trusting her. She was someone who assured me that SHE was the lucky one, that she'd never hurt me, etc., and I ended up being hurt again and again by her. I've never been as stupid and naive as I have been with her. It's still shocking to me. I WANT to learn more about me so that this never happens again.

Let me go back to telling you AGAIN that I was patient with my H and I didn't instantly abandon him when things got tense. We had already endured some tough times in our marriage (just money issues, family issues, etc), and it only made us stronger! We always felt secure in relying on each other, and we still feel that way to some degree. So, I didn't feel shunned when he was tense and I certainly didn't just abandon him and write him off, while looking for something else to entertain me. I began trying to make myself whole, strong and viable. I wanted to look at my options as an adult, and maybe enjoy life even more. I wanted to enrich my life more, outside of my H and my children. That's when this all started. It didn't happen any other way. I don't know how much more I could tell you, but I don't think I'm leaving anything out.

The only other thing I could add is that I shared many, many intimate details about my marriage with the OW. She'd try to support my marriage, but the more I talked about it, the sadder it made me. This was way down the line, when she and I were deep into the A. I think that it made my marriage worse, and my bond with her even stronger. The same for her--she shared her disappointments with me (from the beginning), and she used to say that it made her aware of how "abnormal" her marriage was. I guess that wasn't good to compare and discuss our marriages.

So, ask away. I'll answer any nagging questions you have, but I'm not purposefully leaving anything out, and this is my life as I see it. I DO appreciate any input I get here, and it does give me more perspective. It's helpful. Thanks.

CC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So, I didn't feel shunned when he was tense and I certainly didn't just abandon him and write him off, while looking for something else to entertain me. I began trying to make myself whole, strong and viable. I wanted to look at my options as an adult, and maybe enjoy life even more. I wanted to enrich my life more, outside of my H and my children. That's when this all started. It didn't happen any other way. I don't know how much more I could tell you, but I don't think I'm leaving anything out.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And these means what?????????? So if you didn't "abandon" him, then what on earth do you call the statement above? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wanted to enrich my life more, outside of my H and my children. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hummmmmmm! Well, if this ain't working, I need to look at other options. You confided in the OW when in fact that should have been you H. you confided in.

Can someone help me out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Well, I wish you all the luck in your recovery. Most of all I wish your Husband great luck. You sound very lucky to have someone like him. I would die for my H. to dot all over me. He has all his friends telling him how lucky he is to have such a beautiful wife. But that doesn't matter to him. You should be thanking your lucky stars every waking minute that you have him. I cannot understand what the problem was except that the fact you were completely selfish.

This is not about you anymore. And if your husband cannot open up to you like he did, you better be prepared for that. Because this is a long journey and he seems that he cannot handle your A. any other way except to clam up. His manhood probably went to the pits because you choose to have an affair with a women. Not saying anything bad about gay people. But is ego is gone I am sure of. You need to stop thinking about this women PERIOD! Not for a second, not every other day, not once a week, NEVER. I think you had enough of a selfish ride to last you your life time. Would you agree?

Good luck to you.

Ali~

It sounds to me like when your H and children were not giving you what you needed, so you looked outside the M. It still sounds selfish to me because you weren't thinking about what they wanted or needed.

What do you need help with?

I can sort of understand how your H might feel. One of my boyfriends left me for another guy after we had shared so much. He wanted both us too. My thought was it was bad enough that there was another person involved but how could I compete with someone of the opposite sex? I couldn't. As much as it pained me, I let him go to have his relationship. Although we had been friends for years before, things were never the same between us. He disappeared from my life after he came to my wedding to my H. I haven't heard from him since.

I could say that it sounds like your H is scared too death. He hasn't left you which is commendable on his part. I think his silence shows that he's having extreme difficulty in sorting out how he's supposed to feel or react and rather than do it "wrong", he'd rather say nothing at all.

I don't think your family is as OK with this as you say--not yet anyway.

Again, what can we help you with?

Ali and SAB,

I guess I should stop coming here, as I've only recently come back just to answer posts. I am not looking for help right now. I have things (still) to sort through, mainly the sexuality aspect.

SAB, my H said that it's easier for him to have accepted the A, being that it was with a woman. I guess he looked at it like I was "experimenting" and that was that. Now he's probably wondering which I'd prefer, even though he's not saying anything. Even *I* am wondering where I fit in, which sex I'd prefer, etc. I LOVE him and I want to be with him. That much I know. We've resumed our sex life and it's enjoyable, although sex for me has always been enjoyable, BUT, I can't help wondering if this is really what I want (sexually). I don't want to be in it just to string him along, but I also don't want to end up hurting him more down the road. Serious decisions have to be thought out. I'm sure that he's thinking things through too.

So, I thank you for your input. I'll post when/if I have something to say or ask. Thanks!

CC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ConfusedCheater:
<strong>
I am not looking for help right now. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Er... I am.

I find myself in a similar situation as your husband. Many of the things you've posted are so similar to what my W said.

And I could use some help understanding.

For example,
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I have things (still) to sort through, mainly the sexuality aspect.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What exactly does this mean?

dewt

<small>[ December 01, 2004, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: dewt ]</small>

It has been my experience that sometimes couples that have a SEEMINGLY good or decent relationship on the surface do not, in reality, know how to effectively communicate with one another.

I hate to drag out the "Mars and Venus" idea, but it remains a valid point.

CC, you and your H are two different people. Even if you had a so-called perfect marriage at one time, and even if your marriage is tolerable now, you clearly do not have a solid relationship again. Yet.

You state over and over that you don't know what you want. Then you say that HE isn't talking or asking you for anything.

And you can't figure out why you can't figure things out? Perhaps it's because NEITHER of you wants to get deep enough to find those answers. Is he worried that if he really questions your relationship that he'll hear answers he doesn't want to hear? Are YOU worried that if you really question YOURSELF that you'll find out that your A wasn't so much about love as it was about a "selfish experiment"?

Getting really deep is painful. You think that you've been through rock-bottom already because you got dumped. But in reality, you have yet to work through your deepest issues with your H.

Has it occured to you what your life will be if you don't get to the bottom of these things? It doesn't seem like you are the type of personality to tolerate a mediocre marriage with your H.

What is going to motivate you to move in one direction or the other? What is going to motivate you to dig deeper and work towards developing better communication with your spouse?

I guess he looked at it like I was "experimenting" and that was that. Now he's probably wondering which I'd prefer

Nobody "experiments" for several years with the same person. Maybe several short lived experieces with several different people. "Probably?" You don't know for sure. You're guessing because he won't talk or open up to you. If you don't know, how can he?

dewt,

The statement about the sexuality aspect means that I'm still attracted to women (or more specifically, the "former" OW). I'm not really attracted to men, or even really my H at this point, so I feel like I'm in limbo.

Did your H have a gay affair? I'm supposing he did, since you posed that question to me...

CC

Faithfully,

VERY good questions!! My mother once told me that my H and I get along "so well" because we never dig deep. I insisted that there was nothing to "dig" about, but you may have a point. He's one to let things slide in order to keep peace. I always think I know what's on his mind and in his heart, but I could be totally wrong. This has worked for 20 years in our marriage, and he insists that he's extremely happy, but, who knows??

I guess that more alone-time with him is in order, for us to be able to talk more. You're right though--I think that he's afraid of asking questions and digging deep, because he's afraid of what my answers will be. I'm also confused as to digging deep within me, because I don't know the answers! I'm trying though, through therapy, so hopefully that will come in time.

Thanks for your input.

CC

SAB,

You're right. Three years isn't "experimenting". That much I knew!! When my FOW chaulked it up to an "experience", I was very offended and confused. It was an A, and a long one at that. It was definitely a relationship, not an experiment or experience. In that time, I found myself more attracted to her, and less attracted to my H or even to men. I don't know where I stand now. I feel pretty sexless.

As far as my H opening up or wanting to talk, he just doesn't. His way of thinking is that things are fine now, and he doesn't wish to ask questions or bring it up again. That's HIS way of dealing with it. He just wants me back to being the me I was before the A.

Faithfully was right--my H and I had a seemingly perfect marriage because we never dug deeply. My H always agreed with me about everything and never questioned things with me. He'd rather bend over backwards to please me than to argue with me. Again, it's his way of dealing with things, and it's worked for 20 years, although who knows if it will continue working??

CC