Ummm Maybe Myrta.

But read all of her posts carefully. She hops and she is very inconsistant with her posts. The more someone feels sympathy for her the more she is going to feed into it and play the victum. That is how I see it anyway. But gee, what the h*ll do I know?

Ali~

CC, you are not looking with in yourself and admitting the truth. Why do you hide from it? Are you afraid to see the real you and not this image you betray to be? Did you become rebellious? You are in so much in a denial that you are really seriously hurting you and the people around you.

I don't think this is about the affair. But this is how CC handles issues that are difficult. If you read between the lines, the answers are right there. She tells people what they want to hear and she plays victim to herself and the ones that she can fool. I believe she is doing that to her husband right now!

Confused? Naaaaa, denial about herself? Yes! CC, no one is perfect. If that were so we, would be worshiping that person right now. Right now you need to get in touch with reality and really focus on how you can be a better person. And how to do that? Is by focusing on what your therapist and others are posting here. We don't know you personally, but we can get a good idea from your post what you are like. Chances are you'll never meet us but you can learn from people that are really trying to help a stranger to be a better person, either by knowledge or experience. Ask yourself what do you have to loose?
Please think about that and stop coming off as defensive. I am not trying to attack you but nearly trying to give you another perspective to what you are coming off to the majority of the posters on this forum. I do mean this with all sincerity and really wish you would take the help and not feed off of the poor me posts. That shows weakness and you will never become a better person if you don't look at truth in its face!

You might feel ashamed to what you did. That's great! That is one point closer to reality. I think you fell in love with love. Do me a favor, if you can find it, go read my thread and read what Star*fish told me about what a person brain goes through in the beginning of a relationship. Read more books on affairs. Rarely do relationships come out good from affairs. I think the ratio is 3%.

You need to start being patient and not to expect things to happen over night with your feelings. That does not mean patients with the OW. Feelings about life.
A lot of damage was done and it will take a long time to heal

Ali~

Are you on meds??

<small>[ December 04, 2004, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: Ali88 ]</small>

I think CC is admitting to herself what she really is and what she wants, thats the problem that she has. She has been "happily" married for many years and now she fell for a woman. Not only she had an affair, but it was with a woman. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
She has guilt feelings because of the affair, and because she liked being with this woman. Now she does not know if she can ever be happy again with her husband or with any other man!!!
The secret of happiness is to come to accept whomever you are, whether thats the "normal" thing to be or not. She is not going to be happy if she forces herself to be happy with a husband that she is no longer really loves.
Maybe this woman came into her life for a reason. Even if she never sees this woman again .,CC is realizing that what she thought she was is really not!!! Maybe she has always has these tendencies but she was in denial with herself.
I think her husband could be in more denial than CC herself. Maybe thats why he does not want to talk about the affair, he is afraid of what he might hear. He was confortable and happy with their relationship, and he could be afraid of making CC open up and talk about the affair.
This is something very hard to accept after already having a family with grown kids. But it has happened and they have to deal this sooner or later.

MYRTA

<small>[ December 04, 2004, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: Myrta ]</small>

I told my wife the other day:

That some BHs probably think it is less painful if W had the affair with a woman rather than with a man.

But, if one thinks about it. The affair with another woman is probably much more serious and in the end more devastating (even if it seems to hurt less on D-day).

If the WW has discovered she is gay then the H has little chance of getting her back (IMHO). Of course, there is hope is she is bisexual, and perhaps this is the case. The issue is that the H has to deal with TWO problems: The withdrawal from the OP in the affair and the struggle with the sexual orientation. That is a lot for the H and I agree with Myrta------- the H must be in heavy denial. I have some sympathy for CC (in that she is not trying real hard to face these issues).

CC,

Why is it that when I am seemingly sympathetic towards you (i.e. sympathizing and emphathizing), you think I am right on the money with my remarks? But when I call you on your negativity or your inconsistencies, then you are "suicidal" over it?

You are suicidal over comments delivered to you from a stranger on a message board? I highly doubt it.

You're STILL looking here for sympathy. What you really need is tough love. You probably could have used it years ago, it seems. By your own admission(s), you've been able to get away with far too much for far too long.

I keep on saying I'll stay away from the computer for a while, but then I'm drawn back...

Ali,

No, I'm not on meds. My regular doc is a friend of my husband's and he doesn't know what happened. My therapist never suggested meds, because I started going to her only a month or 2 ago. Before that I was in MC and had some individual sessions with him as well, but he never suggested it either. Sometimes I wish I were on meds. (Actually I'm on enough daily, but what the hell, I could take more!) I *do* rely on Tylenol PM to get me through the nite, and I've taken it since May. I know that I could probably use something else though... Maybe I'll talk to my therapist about it this week.

Right now I'm too tired and drained to go into detail with your post, but I'll quickly answer what I can.

Yes, I think I became a bit rebellious after turning 40. This was in 2000. I began to know the OW in 2001. You know what I just realized tonight while watching some tv with my H? That 9/11 bonded her with me. She lives in Canada, and I live in New York. She was curious about what was happening here, and she was supportive. I shared a lot with her. That was the beginning of the deepening of our friendship into something more. Just a lightbulb moment.

I've encountered a few difficulties in my life (having an alcoholic father; being involved in a tragic accident that altered my life; going through financial hardships with my H; going through a difficult 2nd pregnancy; going through the worries of our daughter having anxiety and then being bipolar...). These encounters only seemingly made me/us stronger. I never faultered or thought, "Ooh, poor me!". My reaction ALWAYS was to say, "Okay, this is tough, but someone has it tougher..." and I'd pick up and move on. Maybe that wasn't the right thing to do. Maybe it built up until now? I don't know... So, don't say that this is how I handle things that are difficult. This is the FIRST TIME I'm handling something difficult in this manner/way/shape.

I don't "fool" anyone (most of the people I have in my close circle are extremely intelligent and judgmental). And I don't play the victim, although I could (as most people could!). I don't buy that! This--me being sad, suicidal, depressed... IS A FIRST!

As I've said--you don't know me at all. You all only know what I've talked about here, which is the A. My life as I knew it (before the A) was compeltely different, so please don't judge me. I did everything "right". I lived by the rules. Something changed along the way.

Thank you for telling me I have to be patient and that it takes a long time to change. I think I'm getting better and then have a bad period where I fall way behind again. It's frustrating.

Myrta,
Thanks (again) for your usual insight. You are right--I am dealing with the big question of my sexuality right now and it's looming over me. It's tough... Hopefully I'll figure it out soon.

I think you're right about my H not wanting to talk about the A. I never thought about that aspect of it--that he's scared to find out that I'm gay or even bi. Maybe he is in denial.

Stanley,
I don't know how to face these issues other than with what I've been doing. I'm confused, still. I'm NOT attracted to women. I'm not attracted to men. I'm not attracted to my H. So, what am I?? I'm still attracted to the FOW and my memories of us and I can't even explain why, because that relationship had it's own problems!

Thanks for your input.

CC

CC-This is a very tough situation you are going thru.
I dont know how can people here think that you are looking for sympathy playing the victim. I dont think ANYONE in the world would like to play the victim with this kind of dilemma.
I think you are truly facing something very difficult to accept, even if you are the most open minded person in the world. You though yourself as a straight person all your life and now in your mid forties you are in love-attracted to this woman!!!!
It is obvious that this something very serious and needs a lot of sorting.
CC, if you are gay or bi-sexual, you are going to have to accept this, no matter how hard its for you or for anyone !!!
If you come to realize that you are bi and your husband and you decide to stay married, you have to see if thats really the way you want to live the rest of your life.
You and your husband cannot be miserable the rest of your lives, just for the sake of your grown children or for appearances. You have to do what feels right in your heart and your husband's!!!
YOu are not going to make him happy by staying with him but not putting all your might in the marriage.
I believe it when you say you get down and depressed with some posters here, even if they are strangers they can get to you, especially when you are so raw with your emotions.
I got into some "cross words" with JL, TMCM and Sgt.Pepper at the beginning of my posting here.
But that was not really me, I was in the fog still and very,very stubborn to accept anything.
But I think your case is not as simple as just a regular affair.
My best to you CC

MYRTA

Faithfully,

I guess we were posting at the same time.

I don't think I'm being inconsistant, and if I feel down or suicidal b/c of what's discussed here, it's b/c it hits a raw nerve. It's what I'm sorting through.

I need tough love? Umm, I doubt it! I had enough of it growing up, from my father, thank you! That's ALL I had--tough love! I had to suck it up and be strong my whole, entire life. *I* would have been an advocate for tough love, and if you ask my children, they probably think that I'm too tough. It's what I've come to know. This is not a time for tough love; sorry. It's a time to try to sort things out and try not to hurt the people I love any further. Simple as that.

Myrta,
Thank you again. What you just said really struck a chord, b/c I haven't even gone there! All I've focused on is trying to forget the A, and put all of my energies into my marriage, and to "fall back in love" with my H, and the more it's not happening, the more disillusioned I get, and the more depressed I'm getting.

So, I don't know WHAT I want. I don't know what sex I'd prefer to be with. I don't know what direction I want my life to take. All I'm certain of is that I want/need my children in my life the way that they are, and I want my H in my life, but I know that I can't go on waiting for things to get back to "normal".

I have a lot to figure out. Thanks for your good points. I hope that all is going well with you and Stanley. I haven't even had the time to check on your posts. I wish you the best!

CC

CC,

I wish you lots of luck in getting your life back on track. I think you are under the mistaken belief that somebody else is going to come along and fix it for you, figure it out for you, or give you the life you expect for yourself. Until you realize that you, alone, are responsible for your life, then you will never have what you want. Your adamant belief that you are entitled to your selfishness is impeding your work, but until you figure that out for yourself, it doesn't matter. In other words, you believe it's always something else or someone else in the way of your learning about YOURSELF, but it's not. It's YOU in the way of YOU. Once you accept that, then your real WORK will begin. Only I'm not convinced that you are willing to do the work, which is why you haven't gone there. It's so much easier to be depressed, it's so much easier to blame something or someone else, it's so much easier to live your life the way you are. (And with a husband who is constantly accomodating you and all your poor choices ...... why not?)

I don't believe you're going to find the answers you want here or anywhere besides within yourself. Good luck.

Yep! I agree FF.

CC, you're right, I just know you as the poster. But what I read is the poor pity act. Right now, my world is crashing upon me now. My H. who I have known for 17 years, and I are now talking divorce. I am depressed because I realize my dream that I once had will be gone. My life has changed a lot since 9/11 too when my H. lost his job because of that. I live in the Chicago area not only did it did it effect New york but the whole country as well. I struggle every day about who I am and how did I allow this situation to happen? I beat myself over the head by saying "only if." I am giving up financial security, a big house with a beautiful large back yard with a Rainbow play set where my kids can feel safe. I now realize that because my H. took a 30 thousand dollar hit in pay to take a job where he can be closer to home, the child support will me extremely minimum. Therefore, I will have to go back to work and most likely work two jobs because I cannot get into a good school district with one salary and my H. small monitory allowance. The Chicago area is not cheap. A town home in a good school district will cost about $220.000 and that is on the low side. My son is autistic. So it is extremely important I get into a school district where his needs can be met. So what am I doing about it? Sure, I want to cry my self to sleep, sure I would love to have a drink and make this all disappear now. But that is avoiding it. I have to look at what is now and start planning for a future that I necessarily didn't want!

I can feel for you. I am sure that 10 years ago that it never crossed your mind to have an A. But people change. I never thought in a million years my husbnad would ever, ever cheat on me. We always looked down on people who commited such an act. Now look? It has changed.

You need to stop dwelling on why you did it and make an action plan to start a better life for yourself. With or without your H. I over anaylize things a pick it apart so I can understand it too. Sometimes that can backfire. You need to start focusing on the future and stop wasting time on what you did because you were a good little catholic girl. Hey look at all the preist. Seriously, no one is perfect! Just accept the responsibility and move on with what you are going to do now!

Anyone agree with me here???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Ali!

FaithfullyHoping,

What you said is what my FOW has said to me in the past. She's told me several times that she can't meet my expectations and that I had to find happiness within myself (something I thought I had all along!). She said that she can't "fix things" and that she couldn't give me the life I had fantasized about in my head. That was one fatal flaw in our relationship--that I had such high expectations of her and she felt like she failed daily. So, I know what you're saying rings a bell. Unfortunately, I must be very dense, because I don't know what I'm supposed to learn about me. I know that I'm responsible for my own happiness, but when I fall in love with someone, I automatically hand over a part of myself to them and hold them responsible. I ultimately know that *I* am the one who made the decision to fall in love or to have the relationships I've had, but other than that, I don't see how I'm supposed to realize that I'm "responsible" for myself. That I'm in the way of me (as you said). I just don't get it... Can you explain it a little more????????

Ali,
God, I'm sorry for what you're going through. It sounds like you're at the stage where you're thinking it all through and it's scary and sad and real. I totally understand how 9/11 hit everyone, not just New Yorkers, but being HERE was very hard-hitting.

What you said about your H and you looking down on people who cheated, was how my H and I felt! I never thought it would happen to me/us, ever! That part is very hard to accept or figure out, but I'm not sitting around, daily, thinking about it.

I, too, am realizing that my dreams are gone; they've certainly changed forever. I don't know what the outcome of this will be, but it's certainly changed a lot. What I can't understand is that you have a special needs child too, and things with your H can't just be worked through (even though it takes a lot of time and patience)? Can't you just live together in support of your family? Or is that too hard? Maybe I'll end up in the same boat as you. I have no idea! I know that financially it would be a disaster. I haven't worked in the work force for over 15 years, and my daughter needs to be looked after daily (she's home-taught). By law, I have to be here when she's tutored, so I don't see how I could work if we split up. I am not even thinking that far ahead. Maybe I should be. I'm sorry for what you're going through. What I DO see is that once an A has happened, it's near impossible to put the pieces back together.

CC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">when I fall in love with someone, I automatically hand over a part of myself to them and hold them responsible. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We're all born with free will. You made all your own choices. Stop blaming them on something else or someone else.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't see how I'm supposed to realize that I'm "responsible" for myself. That I'm in the way of me (as you said). I just don't get it... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What you say has no validity. You keep contradicting yourself. If you've handed over the responsibility for your unhappy life to your FOW, then you have to accept that you got what you got. You see? You can't have it both ways. If you're letting other people make the calls for you, then you have to accept what you end up with.

But that is not really what is going on. The fact is, you made a choice, you didn't like how it turned out in the end because you lost control of the situation, and now you're perpetually pouting about it. Of course you can't move on. You are in the way of yourself and the REAL work that needs to be done. You're so busy looking for something or someone to blame that you will never get past this -- THERE IS NO ONE ELSE TO BLAME.

Think about it. Lots of people may discover things about themselves during the course of a marriage and a lifetime. Not everybody cheats on their spouse because of it.

Your outlook is extraordinarily childish. You keep saying you've heard this all before, but you don't learn anything from it. Why is that?

Faithfully,

Thanks for that explanation. Part of me has believed that I entered into the A willingly and I was ready to accept any outcome. Another part of me (when I was knee deep into it) felt like I gave my heart over to her, and she hurt me and I was abused and I DID hold her accountable. You ARE right--I made the choices of my own free will, and I should have been mature enough to realize that it could have had any outcome, including the one it did. I guess I was naive/stupid to think that it was going to end more happily then it did. This was the one time that I put my trust entirely into someone and went on my good judge of character, and I was hurt, so it's a defense mechanism of mine to totally blame her for my hurt.

I'll try to remind myself that it was MY free will, entering into the A... Thanks.

CC

P.S. DH and our children and I watched "The Five People You Meet in Heaven" and it was very moving. Made me put my own worries on the backburner for once. It was nice!

hate what it did to my marriage, to my H and to everyone else in my life

"Did to your marriage?" You seem to talk about the hurt in the past tense. What about how you're continuing to hurt to your M? Until you can learn to put the focus on your M and family the hurt will continue for you, for them and anyone involved. Right now, your focus is STILL on HER. (If you don't believe me, what is the focus of most, if not all, of your posts?)

SAB,

While I agree that most (if not all) my posts are about the FOW, when I walk away from this computer, my focus is on my family--my H and my children. Her name rarely comes up. Of course some things remind me of her (daily), but they're on the back burner in my mind. I have enough daily to occupy my mind with my family here.

CC

On November 22, you wrote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You asked why I did it? I think because I felt SO comfortable with her, and we began sharing so much of each other's lives. We RAN to each other, phoning each other or emailing or IMing with any news in our day. When we would run to each other first, with good or bad news, for support or happiness, that's when I knew it was very serious. I thought of her first, and she thought of me. It felt very right. That's why I did it. She told me early on that she searched her whole life for a companion who would "hold her hand and walk beside her for life" and she didn't think she had that with her husband. Her marriage didn't turn out like she thought, and she assumed he'd walk out of her life one day. She told me that God brought us together and that she finally had someone to hold her hand. I was honored. I wanted to protect her and to make her happy and secure--things she was lacking, and quite frankly, she gave me a lot of love and support back. I didn't think it would end.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Many people have these feelings about their closest and dearest friends, yet most do not become sexually involved with them, wouldn't you say?

I would like to know exactly what YOU were thinking at that critical moment when you decided to cross the line with your FOW. When you answer this question, do not answer it with any reference to the FOW or her actions. Since this moment seems to be the moment when your life changed (in your opinion), I would like to know what important thoughts, feelings, and actions were coursing through your mind then.

And then I would like you to answer what your thoughts, feelings, and actions were towards your husband at that exact same time.

If this moment is the crux (according to you), then this must be where you have to look to find your answers.

But again, your replies should only represent YOU and YOUR thoughts/actions, not those of the FOW.

Faithfully,

I've had many "best friends" in my lifetime, and while I shared a close bond with them (I still have a few very close friends left), I never felt the strong pull that I've felt with her.

Let me try to answer your question, only referring to how *I* felt... It started as a close friendship, like other friendships I've had. I quickly became closer and closer to her. What was I thinking at that "critical moment" when I crossed that line with her? I thought of how blessed I was to have love strike me twice in my lifetime when I knew of people who never felt that kind of love. I thought that I was incredibly lucky to have someone like her in my life, and that (seriously, and I hope no one is offended here!!) God brought us together for some extraordinary reason. When I crossed that line with her (I remember that it was exactly 3 years ago, in December of 2001), I was nervous, happy and thrilled at the same time. I HAVE to add that I was also confused as to the sexuality aspect of it. I wasn't even leary about cheating or the outcome of that though. I solely focused on how lucky I was to have her in my life. So much so, that it wasn't awkward, and it felt so right.

My thoughts, feelings and actions towards my husband at that time? Good question... I thought that I had his support and love in my back pocket. I felt still in love with him, still attracted to him. I felt that I wanted our life to continue together forever, as it was planned. I didn't even entertain the thought that the A (in the beginning) would take over my life, and take over my feelings and emotions.

I also felt a little resentment towards my H. I was losing weight, exercising, getting healthy. I was going online and figuring things out by myself (a first, in a long time!). I felt that he was somewhat jealous of my strides, although he claimed to be happy for me. I felt that he was stressed and very busy with work, and he couldn't turn his stress off easily anymore. I felt that he wanted me around just to blow off stress, at his leisure. I also felt that I was starting to be looked at more as a "trophy wife", where he'd compliment me and seemingly want me so much more now that I had lost a substantial amount of weight. The first time he told me something about my losing weight "for him," I flipped out. I told him that I did it FOR ME, but that I was glad that he wanted me to be healthy. I thought that somewhere in the back of his head, he thought I did it to be more appealing to him, which angered me.

My communication with him started to slow down. I didn't express those feelings of feeling "used" or almost "exposed". I was proud of myself, yet embarassed that he was now looking at me differently. BUT, please know that I was still in love with him at this point, still wanted him romantically, sexually and as a partner.

It was at this time that I confided in my weight loss counselor that it was almost easier with the added weight on. It was a "shield". I often said that I should write a book about the pitfalls of losing weight and that was one of them--feeling like a plaything.

Hope this makes sense! I haven't thought back to that in a long time. Thanks for bringing it up.

CC

Let me add one more thing (it's good to be on a roll with this thought process!)... At that precise time that the A started, my H was showing his disappointment in my spending too much time "away" from the children. In my mind, I was slowly giving them a little more space, and I was RIGHT HERE when/if they needed me. I didn't feel that it was doing them any service to be available non-stop to their demands. I wanted them to try to function a little more on their own without relying on me/us. My H took that as a sign of "selfishness/laziness". The more he made me feel like that, the more I wanted/insisted on spending my time online or exercising, because it was finally for me, and I needed a little of that. I told him that I wasn't even working, or out of the house. I wasn't gambling, spending money or time away from them. When/if anything came up, I was here and I was able to stop and give them my full attention. They were and always will be my top priority, but when there was down time and I already put in enough family time, I felt that it was okay for me to be able to do things for myself. I guess it was the beginning of more stress for my H though, and it confused the kids somewhat.

CC