I hope it's okay to post this here... we had a call this morning that my husband's father has been caught in an affair. His mom is upset, she's the one that called us. Then his dad called and he's gone now to talk to him. I'm afraid we're going to get pulled into the middle of a bad situation. Hubby is their oldest and by far their most responsible child, so he tends to "take care" of the whole family at the best of times. I'm a little afraid of the effect this will have on him. But I also want to know, what do we do now??? Is there anything we can do, or do we just sort of sit back and wait for the dust to settle... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Thanks.

I recommend that your MIL [mother in law] read Dr Willard Harley Jr's book 'Surviving An Affair', Dr James Dobson 'Love Must Be Tough' and Dave Carder's book 'Torn Asunder'. If you and your MIL are very close you may want to consider buying these books for her as your way of helping her cope with the devastating effects of your FIL [father in law] infidelity. But talk with your H [husband] first before doing any of this so that it gets his approval first and doesn't cause any friction between the two of you.

<small>[ November 21, 2004, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm afraid we're going to get pulled into the middle of a bad situation. Hubby is their oldest and by far their most responsible child, so he tends to "take care" of the whole family at the best of times. I'm a little afraid of the effect this will have on him. But I also want to know, what do we do now??? Is there anything we can do, or do we just sort of sit back and wait for the dust to settle </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He's already IN a bad situation. It pretty much doesn't get much worse than this for him. His parents will be pulling him like a wishbone. Getting the books, and material recommended, will arm you and your H with the right tools to effectively help the situation.

I'm the oldest of 4 children, and the "fixer" , I understand the pressure he's under. He will probably become frustrated and hurt in many ways. He'll think he should have known about this, he'll be burdened with the fact he has to "fix" something he has little to no control over.

The best advice I can give is to put yourself in your MIL shoes. Imagine you woke up one day and caught your H in an A.

The world begins to spin at a deafoning rate. Be there for her, don't interfere, even if she asks you too. Don't make any attempts to fix anything. Offer suggestions from the books and material you got.

The books and information you arm yourself with now, can only strenghen your own marriage.

Best of luck to you and your H.

My adult children learned of their father's long term affair and were very supportive for both of us.
They said that they just hoped that we would stay together.
It has been two years and we are still togther and getting better.
I told them about this site and I wanted them to know just how painful it is hoping that it will never happen to them.
Be supportive. Don't judge.
PW

Oh my goodness! How could you gloss over an affair with mere prescriptions of books and counseling? Isn't the world a terrible place enough? There are many people who betray us in this world and in this life...so why keep one in your bed?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Yoko Kurama:
Oh my goodness! How could you gloss over an affair with mere prescriptions of books and counseling? Isn't the world a terrible place enough? There are many people who betray us in this world and in this life...so why keep one in your bed?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yoko,

Because shooting from the hip and acting out on your emotions almost always comes back and bite us in the as*. A person needs time and guidance in order to make it through the ordeal of infidelity. Books and counseling are one of the ways to go in order to help the betrayed understand what happened and make an informed decision when the time arrives for it.

With all due respect, your mother may have experienced your father's infideliy[ies] but until YOU yourself have gone what she and the rest of us have gone through, you have NO idea what you are talking about.

Then make me understand it. I have since let go of what happened to my folks now, and that's something irrelevant to me. Is the idea of being alone again too terrible that one would just deal with the fact that their mate is a cheater? I mean... sticking with one is like suicide. Isn't married life hard enough? There's kids, finances, funerals, health and other stuff to worry about. Why add a more grevious one? The marriage you once knew is anything but true. it's disappointing that WSs only better themselves after an affair or infidelity. One wonders the purpose of the betterment. I highly doubt it. An improvement driven by guilt and the desire to fix something after the realization of such a sordid affair is quite a self-serving motive...it seems they got away too much. It almost seems like the BS is a masochist for trying to even hope for the WS to come back. I guess some like to feel pain. I don't mean to offend anyone around here. It's just amazes me how you can bare something like that. When will you draw a line somewhere.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When will you draw a line somewhere.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I drew the line when I decided some trashy OW wasn't going to find a GOOD man on MY account.

Stop battering people on the forums. It's uncalled for.

Yoko, please read the basic principles of this site before you post further. I've reported several of your posts to the moderators for action based on the name-calling and disrespect shown in them (please see the MB code of conduct for the expected tone on these boards).

I understand that you're new and you're hurting. However, it's important to understand that there is a great deal of pain in the world -- and that more than half of all marriages are affected by infidelity.

Marriage is, in most traditions, a vow that includes a lifelong commitment. If we, as betrayed spouses, choose to break that vow, we are really not all that much better than our wayward spouses. God and everybody (err, well, Jesus anyway) said it's okay to divorce if things are really rotten. But until we've done everything we can to save our marriages, we choose to stay loyal to our vows. Consider it, if you will, a point of honor.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Yoko Kurama:
Then make me understand it. I have since let go of what happened to my folks now, and that's something irrelevant to me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you really? I sincerely hope that I'm dead wrong when I say this but your post regarding how your mother suffered from your father's infidelity and the hatred and bitterness you still feel for him gives me the impression that you have not truly let go.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is the idea of being alone again too terrible that one would just deal with the fact that their mate is a cheater? I mean... sticking with one is like suicide. Isn't married life hard enough? There's kids, finances, funerals, health and other stuff to worry about. Why add a more grevious one? The marriage you once knew is anything but true. it's disappointing that WSs only better themselves after an affair or infidelity. One wonders the purpose of the betterment. I highly doubt it. An improvement driven by guilt and the desire to fix something after the realization of such a sordid affair is quite a self-serving motive...it seems they got away too much.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yoko, have you ever in your life wronged someone and later been truly remorseful for having done so? If you haven't, congratulations but if you have, have you tried to do everything in your power to make amends to that person you wronged? Should your motives to rectify the wrong you committed be questioned? If the answer is no, then why question the purpose of a truly remorseful unfaithful spouse to make amends to his/her betrayed spouse?

Contrary to popular beleif, not all unfaithful spouses are the same. There are those who are extremely remorseful for betraying their marital vows that after the first sexual encounter with their lovers, they cut all communication with said lovers and rededicate themselves to their betrayed spouses. While there are others that not only continue with their affair but end their marriages as well. And there are others who have serious emotional/mental issues that predate the marriage [Bipolar disorder and sexual trauma like child sexual abuse or rape] that self medicate themselves by having affairs [my first W is probably in this category].

When you have been married with someone for quite a number of years, there is a lot invested to simply ignore and say 'OK, he/she cheated on me, I'm out of here'. For example, if there are children from the marriage, their best interests must also be taken into consideration before any final resolution is implemented. And while the betrayer is the one solely responsible for chosing to have an affair, the betrayed must also reexamine what his/her contributions were to the marriage that MIGHT have contributed to the marital environment that made it a breeding ground favorable for the affair to occur.

I am a survivor of divorce. My first W cheated on me multiple times. When I decided to divorce her it was not driven by my initial emotional devastation but by a long and hard reached conclusion that it was a hopeless cause [she did not want to address her inner demons that were destroying her] and that for the sake of my wellbeing and that of our daughters, I had to divorce her. It took me a few years but I eventually lost all love for her and made another life for myself and our daughters. And just as I earned my marriage I also earned my divorce.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It almost seems like the BS is a masochist for trying to even hope for the WS to come back. I guess some like to feel pain. I don't mean to offend anyone around here. It's just amazes me how you can bare something like that. When will you draw a line somewhere.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And who says that we should give up on someone we love when things are not going great? I certainly didn't even though I eventually had to because I had to face the truth that I couldn't force my XW to face her demons and seek therapy to conquer them.

Lastly one warning for you to consider. Many betrayers beleived exactly the same way that you do prior to their affairs. They were very judgemental people who looked down upon those that had affairs and many of them even had one parent that had been unfaithful, like you. They beleived that what their parent did they could never do and yet in the end they did exactly the same thing. I sincerely hope that you never become one of these people but unless you develop some measure of humility and forgiveness for them, your pride may well pave your fall.

Thank you for your replies.

betrayedinjersey: I appreciate your insight a lot, you sound a lot like H - he's frustrated because this is something he can't fix and really can't do much about.

T00MuchCoffeeMan: Thanks for the book recommendations - I'm going to check out our local used book shop tomorrow and see if any of them are available. I don't think right now they would appreciate me giving them any books, but I'll read them and hopefully it will give me some solid information to offer and when they're ready I will give them the books as well.

Today we got an update that his parents are going to try to work things out... I hope they can but I'm not sure what the outcome will be. There is a lot of hurt coming to the surface now and some of it is years old. But maybe bringing it all to the surface will allow it to start to heal. I think he's sorry... but I'm not 100% sure whether he's sorry for the actions or sorry for their consequence. Their youngest daughter (19) is having a really hard time, I was with her yesterday and she's very angry. I don't know yet how their other two sons are going to react; I'm not sure if they even know yet.

One more question - how do you deal with gossips? H got to work today and one of his employees said that a "friend" of ours had called that morning just to find out 'whether the sh* had hit the fan yet'. He had the decency not to pursue any further information but he thought H should know about the phone call. H is understandably angry. This person is an incorrigible gossip at the best of times, so for her to be asking about this is not a surprise, but really - it's horrible of her. It's none of her business, and besides that she's supposedly a friend of H. Grr.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you really? I sincerely hope that I'm dead wrong when I say this but your post regarding how your mother suffered from your father's infidelity and the hatred and bitterness you still feel for him gives me the impression that you have not truly let go.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No I really have let go. It's just that if ever I got married, and the same thing occurs...I wouldn't be around to stick with it & turning myself into a doormat. That's something I learned from my parents.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yoko, have you ever in your life wronged someone and later been truly remorseful for having done so? If you haven't, congratulations but if you have, have you tried to do everything in your power to make amends to that person you wronged? Should your motives to rectify the wrong you committed be questioned? If the answer is no, then why question the purpose of a truly remorseful unfaithful spouse to make amends to his/her betrayed spouse?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When trust is broken, blameless are the ones who question the integrity of the motives especially if it deals within the issues of trust. There's nothing more worse than somebody who promises to be faithful...and then humps around behind your back. The more wrong fish you catch...the more you get closer to the right fish, so why stick w/ an incompetent fish who can't practice simple loyalty or honesty?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Contrary to popular beleif, not all unfaithful spouses are the same. There are those who are extremely remorseful for betraying their marital vows that after the first sexual encounter with their lovers, they cut all communication with said lovers and rededicate themselves to their betrayed spouses. While there are others that not only continue with their affair but end their marriages as well. And there are others who have serious emotional/mental issues that predate the marriage [Bipolar disorder and sexual trauma like child sexual abuse or rape] that self medicate themselves by having affairs [my first W is probably in this category].</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I completely agree with you with the last sentence.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When you have been married with someone for quite a number of years, there is a lot invested to simply ignore and say 'OK, he/she cheated on me, I'm out of here'. For example, if there are children from the marriage, their best interests must also be taken into consideration before any final resolution is implemented. And while the betrayer is the one solely responsible for chosing to have an affair, the betrayed must also reexamine what his/her contributions were to the marriage that MIGHT have contributed to the marital environment that made it a breeding ground favorable for the affair to occur.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes. the children will be greatly affected by it. So I guess you believe in staying together for the kids eh? Sad to say I don't. Kids don't really stay kids, & they're not/won't be oblivious to the adultery. They grow up into adults and will soon have their own lives. Being a single parent won't decrease their growing up into good citizens. How would you feel if your daughters(when they marry) were cheated on? Would you as a father would allow this? They'll have their own choices but as a father...wouldn't you feel contempt for the person who did this to your daughter?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am a survivor of divorce. My first W cheated on me multiple times. When I decided to divorce her it was not driven by my initial emotional devastation but by a long and hard reached conclusion that it was a hopeless cause [she did not want to address her inner demons that were destroying her] and that for the sake of my wellbeing and that of our daughters, I had to divorce her. It took me a few years but I eventually lost all love for her and made another life for myself and our daughters. And just as I earned my marriage I also earned my divorce.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you remarried? What would be your arsenal for this marriage to work? Wouldn't it be nice if couples who are heading down the isle...would atleast take up this book so they can affair-proof their marriage?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And who says that we should give up on someone we love when things are not going great? I certainly didn't even though I eventually had to because I had to face the truth that I couldn't force my XW to face her demons and seek therapy to conquer them.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe you can face that kind of tragedy...but not many people can. As I have said before...the thing that you both regarded as sacred has now been sullied.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lastly one warning for you to consider. Many betrayers beleived exactly the same way that you do prior to their affairs. They were very judgemental people who looked down upon those that had affairs and many of them even had one parent that had been unfaithful, like you. They beleived that what their parent did they could never do and yet in the end they did exactly the same thing. I sincerely hope that you never become one of these people but unless you develop some measure of humility and forgiveness for them, your pride may well pave your fall.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really have no desire to replicate my dad's horrid behaviour. I don't judge people who choose to forgive the unfaithful. It just baffles me that's all. It's a huge red flag.

<small>[ November 23, 2004, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: Yoko Kurama ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No I really have let go. It's just that if ever I got married, and the same thing occurs...I wouldn't be around to stick with it & turning myself into a doormat. That's something I learned from my parents </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Trust me when I tell you...you NEVER know until you get there.

You can stick with it, and NOT be a doormat.

Life will throw you for many a loop..and if you don't learn to ride the chaos..it will bowl you right over.

There's much to be said about quitters never win.

Sorry dontknow,
I wanted to address this:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> One more question - how do you deal with gossips </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">With dignity and grace. He ignores it...and simply states this conversation is truly inappropriate.

Hang in there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by betrayedinjersey:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No I really have let go. It's just that if ever I got married, and the same thing occurs...I wouldn't be around to stick with it & turning myself into a doormat. That's something I learned from my parents </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Trust me when I tell you...you NEVER know until you get there.

You can stick with it, and NOT be a doormat.

Life will throw you for many a loop..and if you don't learn to ride the chaos..it will bowl you right over.

There's much to be said about quitters never win. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">betrayedinjersey,

I agree with you 100%.


Yoko,

Practically everybody here said the same thing you have but as betrayedinjersey so rightly put it, you won't know what you are going to do until you cross that bridge.

TMCM

TMCM,
I usually only speak if I have something to back it up.

My mom was a BS, my dad the WS. I usually don't post much stuff about it. Other than on the recovery board, as examples of stuff I remember...et al....

I grew up believing the same thing...as a matter of fact, had somewhat of a question mark surrounding the reason she stayed with this man.

I always thought my mom was a strong spirited woman, and this ONE part I just couldn't get on board.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Ok...now I'm on board <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

And not in a good way either, but now it all makes sense.

Everyone is fallable... I guess you have to determine for yourself if it's worth working at. I think for the most part, people know themselves, and their spouses well enough to make the proper choice.

Just like all marriages shouldn't be saved, all marriages shouldn't be tossed into the recycle bin because of a horrible misjudgment.

It's all relative....don't ya think ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by betrayedinjersey:
<strong> TMCM,
I usually only speak if I have something to back it up.

My mom was a BS, my dad the WS. I usually don't post much stuff about it. Other than on the recovery board, as examples of stuff I remember...et al....

I grew up believing the same thing...as a matter of fact, had somewhat of a question mark surrounding the reason she stayed with this man.

I always thought my mom was a strong spirited woman, and this ONE part I just couldn't get on board.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Ok...now I'm on board <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

And not in a good way either, but now it all makes sense.

Everyone is fallable... I guess you have to determine for yourself if it's worth working at. I think for the most part, people know themselves, and their spouses well enough to make the proper choice.

Just like all marriages shouldn't be saved, all marriages shouldn't be tossed into the recycle bin because of a horrible misjudgment.

It's all relative....don't ya think ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel the same way. It's just hard to witness it. It plants fear in your heart and causes you to grow up faster than you should.

Hi Yoko,
I must tell you that I once felt as you do in many respects. I once believed that an act of infidelity could only be dealt with in one way, separate yourself from the treachery. Sure, it might hurt a bit to leave, “Cut your nose, to spite your face”, was my motto. I’m sure that for many acts of infidelity divorce is the proper response. Now, having a first hand experience my views have changed. I have come to realize that the most valuable thing you can find in your lifetime is love. It’s corny as hell, but it is so true. It is so rare a thing and so valuable. Once you find it, you will do whatever you need to do to make sure it doesn’t go. Further, I believe that it is a worthy goal to win it back if it is lost. If you believe that only bad people do bad things then the entire world is bad and I would venture to guess that people that believe such things have little faith in humanity. However, if you believe that good people can do bad things then forgiveness is part of your vocabulary. Forgiveness is a wonderful human trait; it gives so much too both sides.

It is the same thing with my wife, a good person making a bad decision and now, forgiveness for that bad decision. We are both being rewarded for that act of forgiveness as we are finding things about each other that fueled our desire for each other beyond anything that I have previously experienced.

When I was young, I never thought much about having children. I didn’t need the interference in my life as I was far too busy enjoying the “finer” things. But, once they came they filled a part of my life that I never knew existed and it was good. Even though they are grown, their successes and failures still keep my life most interesting and I am a better person because of them. My point is that there are such experiences waiting for you and when those experiences find you, your views will change and you embrace things that you would not believe possible today.

Mr.G

Yea, I kinda get the feeling that I would embrace forgiveness even for this type of malady. I just don't understand why people would do this to eachother, ya know? I mean...your spouse is like a last refuge for you against the wide world...and for them to find out something like this is almost too painful to bare. Is there something wrong with taking your spouse's infidelity as a sign that he/she might not be the one for you? Isn't trust the driving force of love? I mean isn't it possible that you can forgive someone but forget about them too and move on with somebody else? It's just a phobia that I have that marriage might become an economical reason...or just staying for the kids.

<small>[ November 25, 2004, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: Yoko Kurama ]</small>

Oh my goodness,
Everything you say must be considered and at the end of the day perhaps separation is the only answer left. Of course, it depends on the situation as we are all different and require different things from life. But certain things we all require. I bet you can guess what those things are. We all have the need to be wanted, loved and cared for. As a person ages those things become more important especially if you have tasted them once. That is why so many people in these forums try so hard to keep those things that seem to be drifting away from them. The desperation that you see in the posts that you read is from the individuals that have tasted the wonderful things that human relationships have to offer.

The economics, the kids, other peoples perceptions are all contributing factors that might influence a couple to stay together, but the successful ones that stay together do it for the simple human emotion, love.

You question that trust should be the driving force of love. It most certainly plays a significant and important role. I think that no relationship can survive long without it. So, in a relationship that suffers as a result of a compromise of trust, it is paramount that the trust be repaired and restored. You might say that even a child can distinguish the difference between right and wrong but sometimes, in certain situations those differences become blurred and grown knowledgeable adults lose their way. It happens every day. I am certain that no alcoholic ever envisioned themselves as an alcoholic with their first drink. People are susceptible to their weaknesses and when those weaknesses are left to their own devices all of the human attributes (trust, loyalty, courage, and kindness) are at risk but I don’t think that the answer is an unqualified “walk-away”.

There is great pain associated with an act of discovered infidelity. With many people the emotions are so painful that they cannot be described by words and when a couple both try to repair such damage you will note that the deceiver often times carries the scar longer then the betrayed. These are good people that have profound trouble dealing with the guilt of betraying the love (and trust) of their spouse. Why is that? Of course, not every instance is like what I describe, but so very many are just like that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Whatever you give, you get back times three.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is why so many in these forums try to save what they have lost and why many succeed.

Mr. G