I can't believe it. I had a feeling and asked him today if he was seeing someone. He said that he did meet someone in his laundry room at the apt he's living in. She has been calling him and came by "to borrow some Scotch tape" He says he hasn't asked her out yet but does eventually intend to. I got furious. Told him he'd get his papers back soon and it would finally be over for him. I have done everything I know to try and save this marriage. Tell him I love him and miss him all the time. Willing to do anything .... move, counseling, anything .... to make things work. I'm sick of being a doormat. I know that I shouldn't "love bust" but I am sick of begging. He has only been moved out for about two months. Can't believe he's already moving on.

<B>BLECH, PUKE, SPIT, DAMMIT, POOPHEADED, DODO, PAIN IN THE BUTT, SELFISH</B>...<P>That's what I think...<P>Am I talking about your H or mine? <P>On the other hand, he could be like my H and find another one before he's even all the way moved in to the new apartment...<P>Geez...<P>~Sheryl<BR>

AnnR,<P>Or he could be just trying to get some revenge. Please be careful. Nothing has happened yet, but this new woman is probably feeding on his loss of self-esteem following your affair. Ann it is not over yet, don't give up.<P>JL

My husband started seeing someone before the divorce was final. I was the one who cheated on him. I did everything I knew how to keep from divorcing but he went through with it and I felt that fighting him would do more harm than good. Now I'm praying for re-marriage. I know he still loves me but I don't know if he is willing to take the chance again. I so hope so. I really miss him!

Even though I think my H has cooled off with OW, he is also dating up a storm. He actually told our daughters (7&9) that is ok if he dates people now. We are not even divorced. I wonder if he also told them that he thought it was ok for him to date while we were still together? Thank God our girls thought he was disgusting. I guess that maybe the values and morals I taught them really did sink through.<BR>Nancy

AnnR,<P>Something else for you to think about. I will start by saying I am not slamming you so just read and think about this. <P>Do you realize how mad you are about him talking to a woman in the laundry room and her coming by to borrow some scotch tape? Just think how he felt about finding out that you gave yourself emotional to another man for 8 months and physically for 4 months. You are really steamed at him right? You want to sign and throw those divorce papers in his face and tell him to get out of your life right? You are deeply hurt that he would show interest in another woman, right?<P>Well, you have to ask yourself do you really love your H? Do you really want to stay married to him? If so then you need, in my opinion, to back off and not make any rash decisions. His behavior hurt you. You now have some idea of what you are dealing with in him. He is hurt, humiliated, and angry. Just as you are. Now how does one fix it?<P>Go back and read the Harley material again. However, you will now have a slightly different view of it. You have felt a bit of what your H is feeling. You can see better what this information is trying to tell you.<P>Quite promising to "do anything" to fix the marriage. As I mentioned to you before, promising to doing anything is very similar to promising to doing nothing. You will need a plan on what to do. You will need to act on that plan. You will need patience, prayer, and Gods help in this. If you cannot formulate a plan based on what you have read here and in Harley's information, or with the help of local counselors, I suggest that you call Steve Harley. People here seem to have a success talking with him. He can help construct a plan of action.<P>AnnR, please read, think, and act. All is not lost yet.<P>God Bless You and Your Family<P>JL

JL,<P>I'm sure you'll find some humor in this, or feel good that you struck a nerve, but your post angers me. <P>I am so sick to death of hearing things like <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Just think how he felt about finding out that you gave yourself emotional to another man for 8 months and physically for 4 months<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>As if that gives the betrayed license to do as they please. <P>Ann, please jump on me and tell me to leave your thread alone if this offends you... I apologize if that is the case. <P>I just think that we (as people who made a mistake and betrayed) should not have to suffer for our mistakes for the rest of our lives... plus, it's up to us to save this marriage? That goes in the face of Harley's material which says that the <B>betrayed</B> are to woo the betrayer back... but both Ann and I (and other betrayers, I know) have been fighting for our marriages the whole time and the betrayed are wallowing and/or "cut us off with a sharp knife" and are moving on without us. So, which is it??<P>You know, JL, you have no profile, and I'm curious who you are - really! Are you male or female, how long have you been married, how long in recovery... I may have missed your story at some time, but I am interested now. Can you tell me??<P>~Sheryl<P>

new_beginning you sound like you are just angry and fed up of the rejection that your H is giving you. And I understand where you are coming from, but have you evey been the betrayed, have you ever put yourself in your H shoes. He is probably thinking, "Yeah, she wants me now and is showering me with love now, but what happens when things start to get comfortable?" He being a male, is probably scared of being hurt AGAIN, of wearing his heart on his sleeve, of trusting again and of what his family and friends will think if he went back. Just as you are sick of hearing about what you did to cause this, he is sick of having to replay the sordid, horrible details in his mind, when you are making love, when you are driving, when you are on the phone, etc. Yes, you made a mistake, yes you chose to make the mistake over and over again for months. Now you want him to respond lovingly towards you because you think it is time. ONLY HE can decide when he feels it is right to continue with you or without you. And the fact that he is being HONEST with you is giving you more respect than you have/are giving him.

Actually, i got the names confused. That response was for BOTH AnnR and new_beginnings.

AnnR:<P>You can't control your husband's behaviors. You can control your own. I'd counsel you to continue with the Plan A---change your behaviors, don't lovebust, etc. You shouldn't be begging---but you should let your husband know that you're willing to work on the marriage.<P>It's perfectly plausible that your husband hasn't met anyone, and is playing some childish games to hurt you back. Not very effective in building love---but you should be able to ignore it.<P>New-beginnings---you seem to be mighty sensitive today (understandably so). I didn't take JL's post as a carte blanche for the poor betrayed to start exhibiting all sorts of unsaivory behavior. He's just trying to get AnnR to understand her husband's potential perspective (and that's extremely valuable---it's "empathy").<P>And Harley's material actually states (or implies) that it's up to the person with the most love (higher love bank balance) to woo the other back. That's often the betrayed---because usually affairs indicate a lack of love by the other spouse. But it can go both ways. Ann---you're in the driver's seat. You love your husband, right? Then demonstrate it---by concrete actions. It can take time for this method to be effective, but in the end, it's well worth it.

I too believe that the waiting is the hardest part and I believe that my H may think be scared that all this love and attention that I'm giving him(even if it is through mail only) is only temporary. Many have told me that I need to stop sending him anything but I want him to know that I don't want to give up even if he doesn't respond to my actions. They say if you are acting a certain way and are not getting the reaction that you want, than you must change your actions. I disagree to a certain extent. I believe what the Bible says about loving your mate unconditionally, that means without expecting anything in return. I pray that God leads me to what He knows is best for us.

<B>Trying2Forgive</B>: <P>Re: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>have you evey been the betrayed, have you ever put yourself in your H shoes<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>My H has been unfaithful more times than I can actually count on one hand... and do I count the woman who wrote him a letter at 2:00 a.m. - "I'm up late and can't sleep because I'm thinking of you...", this woman who gave him letters, cards, and a gift that he <B>kept</B>, and give him big kuddos because he brought it all home and showed me afterwards? Good boy, you were <B>honest</B>!! Geez... my stupid affair (and <B>do not forget</B>, I <B>stopped</B> it), and it was a one-time deal that I have been <B>very, very, very sorry about it</B>. He <B>still</B> does not accept that these liasions he had/has are affairs!! Do you have any idea how frustrating and hurtful that is? I really mean no offense to you either... but dammit, I'm defending my life here. I am so tired.<P><B>K</B>: <P>Adore you, respect you... <P>That said, I have no love bank balance... oh, I guess I'm stronger... well, yippy for me, because I'm the strong one and he is weak, it is <B>up to me</B> to fix this? I am so tired of this... it was <B>always</B> up to me, and frankly I've had it!<p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited December 28, 1999).]

I too believe that the waiting is the hardest part and I believe that my H may think be scared that all this love and attention that I'm giving him(even if it is through mail only) is only temporary. Many have told me that I need to stop sending him anything but I want him to know that I don't want to give up even if he doesn't respond to my actions. They say if you are acting a certain way and are not getting the reaction that you want, than you must change your actions. I disagree to a certain extent. I believe what the Bible says about loving your mate unconditionally, that means without expecting anything in return. I pray that God leads me to what He knows is best for us.

Thank you all. I really needed advice here. <P>Just Learning -- I do agree that I know now a little of what he is feeling. I thought of that. I know I've hurt him terribly. I guess that I know I have tried so hard to save our marriage w/ absolutely no response from him. He does sometimes get emotional but he hasn't once told me he loved me or missed me since he found out about my affair. He has not tried at all to understand the real reasons of my affair. In our relationship, I'm always the one to blame. Whenever there is an argument or disagreement, it's ALWAYS my fault. <P>New Beginning - I do agree w/ everything you said. How long do I have to pay? Is there some point where he should start wanting our marriage back? I know I'm the one who messed up but I have to get my life together too. Is there a point where Plan B comes into action? I've been doing Plan A and it's not working. <P>I do want to save my marriage but I DO NOT want my affair thrown up in my face forever. I DO NOT want to live w/ someone who finds me repulsive now. <P>Trying 2 4give - You are right. I know he was honest w/ me and I do appreciate and respect that. It's more than I can say for myself. I have told him over and over how much I love and miss him, how handsome he is and that I don't want this to reck his self esteem. He's very prideful so I know it will be hard for him to come back to me. But none of this seems to be helping. I do believe he'll go ahead w/ the divorce. He's pushed it so strongly. What other options do I have? I am going to be nice no matter what ... for my children's sakes. If he wants to move on ... then I can't stop him. YOu're right, I can't control him. I am going to take some time to heal though. <P>

to new_beginnings, I was unaware of you history with your H, so I apologize if I offended you in anyway. Now that I know, It seems that H believes that if a man does it it's okay because "boys will be boys", but if a woman does it then she is a no good slut. If you have forgiven him and he can't do the same, then it shows that he loves his pride more than his wife and marriage. I can't believe the gall of some people to not expect to be treated the way they treat people!

to new_beginnings, I was unaware of you history with your H, so I apologize if I offended you in anyway. Now that I know, It seems that H believes that if a man does it it's okay because "boys will be boys", but if a woman does it then she is a no good slut. If you have forgiven him and he can't do the same, then it shows that he loves his pride more than his wife and marriage. I can't believe the gall of some people to not expect to be treated the way they treat people!

to new_beginnings, I was unaware of you history with your H, so I apologize if I offended you in anyway. Now that I know, It seems that H believes that if a man does it it's okay because "boys will be boys", but if a woman does it then she is a no good slut. If you have forgiven him and he can't do the same, then it shows that he loves his pride more than his wife and marriage. I can't believe the gall of some people to not expect to be treated the way they treat people!

AnnR,<P>I hope that you realize that I was not throwing your affair in your face as New_B is suggesting. What I was trying to do is illustrate that your H is very "_____ " you name what you felt for him when you heard about another female showing interest in him.<P>It is my opinion, and I think the K feels the same, that he has to deal with his own anger, fears, etc. You need to act on a plan. Why a plan? First, you love him and want him back, but it will take time and more time. So the plan is to show him that you love him and want him back but at the same time to work on yourself. You will need to heal from this as well. You cannot change him as said before, but you can change yourself. <P>It seems to me there were issues in this marriage before the affair. Identify them and work on the ones that you can address. I keep asking if you can talk to H for awhile. Can you get him to take the needs questionaire here? It will help you and him, if he is willing to, identify what was missing from the marriage. If snoring was a big issue with you, there are a variety of cures now including laser surgery. Do you see what I mean.<P>AnnR, it is possible that nothing will save the marriage, but you will need to heal from this ordeal and you will need to learn from it. You H has the right to terminate the marriage and so do you for that matter. But there is hope. K will no doubt suggest that you call Steve Harley. I have no experience with him, but the people on this board who have talked with him, come away very impressed. <P>Talk with K about it and see what he says. All I really have to say is: AnnR you saw how mad you got and how easily you were ready to pitch the whole thing. Your H is in the same mood. With time the anger will go away, so will the intensity of many other feelings. Be there when that happens and you may get your H back. You may even get a better H back. You don't have to take grief from him, if you don't want to but he is carrying considerable anger.<P>Give it time and work on the things you can work on. A few prayers wouldn't hurt either. <P>Good Luck and God Bless You and Your Family<P>JL

JL,<P>I never said you were trying to throw her affair in her face... go back, read what I wrote. <P>My concern is that whenever there is a painful outburst from the betrayed, it is automatic to say to the betrayer, "See how your spouse felt when you gave yourself to someone??" And in essense, it is saying that we are to "put up" with it because we betrayed them. <P>Also, I honestly want to know about your situation. You post responses, but do not begin threads... and without a profile, we know nothing of your marriage... or recovery. <P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>Broken heart, broken promises, broken spirit... let me rest!

New_B,<P>I am very sorry if I struck a nerve with you. I have communicated with you over many months and I take absolutely no pleasure in your pain nor your H's pain. I want to see you heal both physically and mentally. I don't know what has happened to make you so sensitive right now, but it is not helping you. <P>Would you please quit worrying about your H and take care of yourself. Get yourself squared away and I suspect that your H will be no problem at all . <P>At the risk of hitting another nerve let me suggest that there are many emotional states to be in: happy, pensive, sad, confused, depressed, perturbed, annoyed, giddy, giggly, etc. But the one that you should really never be in is MAD. It does you no good and it never really accomplishes anything. Your situation is not a fight or flight situation. Think about staying in some other mood and minimize the time spent in the mad mood. Being mad at your H does nothing for either of you. Please try to settle and recharge your batteries.<P>Are we friends? <P>God Bless You and Your Family<P>JL