<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

My wife and I were separated for a month this past year and her reasons for wanting to leave were that I didn't talk to her enough or she didn't love me anymore. People from church talked to her just before she left and all of them said that they could not find a good enough reason for her wanting to leave me.
Later I found out that she had been having an affair. We were only married a bit over a year then. We are back together and things are going good most of the time but I'm having a very hard time dealing with what she did. I need to talk about it but she gets upset everytime I bring up the subject. She tells me that I don't need to know everything that went on because of the anger I have inside. I feel like getting revenge on the guy she was involved with and at times I feel like having an affair myself to get back at her and make her feel the way I do but I know that would only make things worse. When I ask her why she did it, she tells me to read a book, I can't get staright answers out of her and the answers I do get confuse me even more.
I have always had trouble opening up to people including my wife so her as well as other people have suggested to just write letters to her and I have done that a few times, I have let her know how I feel about her affair, the damage she has caused and questions I need to know answers to but I'm not getting a response from her. It feels like I need to work this out myself.
Some days I am fine, but other days I feel like it happened yesterday and I get the same feelings I got then. I have told her that we need each other to help us get over this but she's not willing to help me in the way I need, I don't know what to do! Please help, any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Ben,
I sorry to hear that you find yourself in your current situation.

I am truely atounded by your post. I realize that most spouses tend to paint their wayward spouses a bit more negatively than reality dictates, but even if your description is 60-70% accurate then you are married to a very heartless woman.

Having an affair is a very selfish thing for a human to do to another. If the behavior contuinues to be selfish afterward it makes recovery difficult.

Let me try and respond point by point:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Later I found out that she had been having an affair. We were only married a bit over a year then.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Most affairs happen after several years of marriage and are "caused" by problems that have been ignored for years. The fact that your wife could rationalize an affair after just twelve months says volumes. This is supposed to be a marriage"s honeymoon period. I'm realistic to know that the first year is a year of transition. Two people getting used to living together instead of just dating.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We are back together and things are going good most of the time but I'm having a very hard time dealing with what she did. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Keep in mind that in alot of cases the period immediately following DDay is known as the honeymoon period. If the cheating spouse wants to save the marraige they are on their best behavior. On the other hand the betrayed spouse (BS) may be in a state of shock/denial and anger hasn't set in yet. Many BSs have abandonment issues that are not realized and dealt with until later.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I need to talk about it but she gets upset everytime I bring up the subject. She tells me that I don't need to know everything that went on because of the anger I have inside. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your wife is exhibiting more selfish behavior here. She has the typical attitude of its over so you better hurrt up and get over it. Sorry that doesn't work.

You do need to talk about it. You need to know why it happened. Alot of people want to know other details the when, where and hows. If they don't feel free to discuss they can become even more obsessive about the affair and the affair partner.

A word of warning though: I thought I wanted to know all of the details at the time. In hindsight I wish I could have gotten myself to a point where I didn't need to know all of the "how" type questions. Knowing the answers to these have made recovery a bit more difficult.

Her answering the questions as thouroughly and as frequently as you need will help restore the trust which is completely shattered.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When I ask her why she did it, she tells me to read a book, I can't get staright answers out of her and the answers I do get confuse me even more.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The read a book comment is a very insensitive comment that borders on being completely *****y. If she's being negstive towards you she may be in "withdrawal" from the other man and/or her feelings of guilt are being taken out on you.

She's the one who should be reading books. She also should be going to counseling.

What has she told you the reasons are? What makes the answers confusing?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have always had trouble opening up to people including my wife so her as well as other people have suggested to just write letters to her and I have done that a few times, I have let her know how I feel about her affair, the damage she has caused and questions I need to know answers to but I'm not getting a response from her. It feels like I need to work this out myself. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Writing letters can be good if you have trouble expressing yourself. Even better if you get angry while asking. Getting angry will just tell her that she has a legitimate reason not to tell you about the affair.

Working on yourself will help but your wife needs to take an active role in this or there will be no true recovery.

Does she rationalize the affair? IOW, is it your fault in her eyes?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Some days I am fine, but other days I feel like it happened yesterday and I get the same feelings I got then.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is normal. How long ago was DDay? I am 15 months past DDay and the anger ahs only recently died down to the point where I think the marriage is salvagable.

Then again if this had happened to me during my first year of marriage I would have been gone once I got past the self-esteem/abandonment issues.

Take a deep breath.

Mac

Thanks for the response cwmac.

When I ask her why she did it, she tells me she doesn't know, she admits that it was stupid and she regrets doing it but one time she told me that she knew something like that would happen but she didn't know when or with who.
I feel that she has a reason but doesn't want to admit it.
Another thing that confuses me is that her dad as well as two or three of her uncles have had affairs too so she should have known what the affects would be but then she does the same thing. She once told me that she figured that no one but her would have to pay for the consequences but she was wrong.
There was a time I felt love and excitement inside for her and I haven't had that in a long time, that is a feeling I want back but I don't know when or if it will come back. I still love her but it's not on the same level as before. I told her that she took the most intimate and personal part of our marriage and shared it with someone else, that is one thing that makes me so angry.
Another confusing thing to me is that a few months before she left, she told me that she wanted more and better sex and the reason it wasn't that way was me, I went to see a doctor, got medication and tried to be more romantic but ever since I did all that, the subject doesn't come up anymore. Now she tells me she doesn't like to have sex. I asked her if she didn't like to have sex, why she did it with another man and she doesn't have an answer for that. I still have the medication and only used it maybe 2 or 3 times since I got it and she has never asked me to take it.
How did you deal with your situation? What would you do if you ever met the guy?

Ben,

I'm sorry that you are in pain. You need to try to get control of the situation, for your own sake.

The thoughts you are having are pretty typical. But understand this: a "revenge" affair isn't going to help your marriage recover.

There are a couple of important considerations at this point:

1.) Has your wife ended all contact with the OM? This is a crucial first step. It's going to be hard to work on your marriage until the affair is over.

2.) As much as it stinks...there may not be any answers right now. Like you, I wanted to know the "whys" of the situation. It was hard for me to accept that there may not be any easy answers to some of my questions. That's the way it is. Right now, both of you are confused and hurt. And..your wife likely doesn't want to face her guilt and shame head on. Give her time. Hopefully, when she feels it's safe, she will open up to you. That means, of course, that you have to MAKE her feel safe. Read up on loveb-busters and Plan A. Try to keep your emotions in check. If you need to vent, do it here or keep a journal. Try not to take things out on her.

3.) A better way to broach the subject may be to talk to your wife about what she feels she got from the affair that she didn't get from you. There is likely some need that the OM filled. You can learn to fill that need as well. There is a good emotional needs questionaire on the MB site. The two of you may want to do it together.

ben
sorry to see you here but at least you have found a place that can offer some help and hope, no matter what you do or what happens.

Firstly I would like to say I am a FWW who like your wife refused to discuss much with my H for a long time just wanting it to go away, it really pleased my H lawyers who were just drooling to start charging us for a D.
Well thank God for the advice both he and I got here separately from many wondeful people and a a great IC/MC.
She must ans all your questions over & over & over until you no longer want her to. Its that simple.
If she doesnt your anger will grow, then you'll leave, find another woman or both.

Now Affairs dont 'JUST' happen, they grow out of contact, then friendships, then intimacy. They grow in other words like any other R except they are secret, betraying, manipulative, ugly, and mean.
For her to have an affair within 12 months of your M I think in MHO means one of 2 things.
1st your WW has BIG problems requiring professional treatment, or
2 this was going on before the M started, then it ended/faded & has started again. It need not have been sexual way back but an emotional thing, whats called a EA - emotional affair.

Given that, I will say reluctantly, that you are quite right to question continuing your M in the circumstances even though you dance around the issue in your post I feel you are thinking something like this. Its a decision only you can make and I hope being here it means you want to know how to go about it. But your decision & a tough one in the circumstances.

Read, read and read more on this site, get a few of the books mentioned, I sure some fellow BS will give you some advice on those.

Now her comments sound so classically what we term as 'fogged' on this site I wonder if she has stopped contact?? This is where you will get heaps of hurtful comments, babble and it will sound like rubbish & is. She will rewrite your courtship & M to suit her own ends which is justifying the A.
Now if contact is over -
1 how do you know this?
2 have you seen the no contact letter? Did you both do one?
3 did she or does she work with the OM?

Do you know whne the A started when it allegedly ended?

How long has she been back?

How long was she away for only the month?,
where did she go?,
who did she stay with?,
why did she say she wanted to come back?
are you seeing MC or IC at the moment?
1st M or second M?
Your ages?

If you can ans some of these ben then it will help people here give you some advice.
As much detailed info as you feel you can give will provide some in depth info on the situation which will help in the advice provided.

now if after ans as many q as you feel comfortable with, it turns you feel and want to ask more then I would also say that strange as this may sound to your the BSm your ww may not feel 'safe' telling you all the truth about when it started, why etc etc bcause of YOUR reactions to it.
I mean if you found out it had been a lenghty A before & after your M she may just assume you want out right now so why even try??
We are pretty frightened at this stage and hide it behind a welter of nasty comments and statements because to do otherwise means we have to admit to our fears that the OM was NOT a saint, it was wrong to have an A, etc etc. and that WE are the only ones to blame.

just a few thoughts to chew on for now ben and good luck to.

Hope you get lots of good solid advice.
Dont worry about being a long post, write what you feel needs to be said.

Thanks for all your comments, you're helping to put things in perspective.

I am 25 and she is 20.

When she moved out, she rented an apartment on her own. She hasn't told me when the A started but she told me she hasn't talked to him on months and months.
Why do I feel angrier at him than at her? I feel like putting him in the hospital sometimes if I ever found out who he is because my wife told me she told him about her problems and if he had been a friend then he would have used his head above his shoulders. That's why my wife doesn't want to tell me everything because I might do that. I don't think I actually would but that's just the rage I feel inside and my wife should be helping me with this the most but she's not, she tells me to read a book. That's one thing that is just feeding my anger, my gut tells me that I need to know these things but she wants to keep everything a secret and tries to push things over onto me to make me look and feel like the bad one.

The reasons I'm so angry at her is because she could have made the decision to not have sex with another person but she did and the message I get from her is 'oh well it happened, so what, who cares, let's move on'. She shared the most intimate and personal part of our marriage with someone else and that part is gone. She broke her marriage vows and I'm supposed to get over this myself. I was having a hard time too during our separation including her wanting to take me to court for financial support and most of my emotional and physical needs had not been met for a long time either and I didn't have an affair. I agree with all those people that say that having an affair is one of the most selfish things a person can do in their marriage. They not only hurt the person they vowed to spend the rest of their lives with "for better or worse" as much as possible but they also broke the sacred marriage covenant that God made when they said "I do". Also they hurt their kids(if any) and themselves.
"Sin offers much, but pays little" and that's the case of an affair, the other person offers much for a little while and once everything is said and done, all you have left is a box full of puzzle pieces.

I f your need aren't being met from your spouce, if necessary then leave for a little while until you both can figure out what you want and need and work on that and leave other people alone, they will just make things worse.

Here's something that might help you approach your wife:

http://www.dearpeggy.com/com023.html

Please take the time to read this....it will help

Hey Star!??

The article from Dear Peggy is right on! Perfect if it was the WW that was reading it. That usually seems to happen. That usually happens. The wrong person ends up reading it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It is like we already know the information. But it is trying to communicate it to our Sp that is tough.
I am going to copy that and let Randy read it. But you know, the guy just skims over things or is so distracted because he doesn't want to "talk about it" then he gets extremely frustrated when I ask him a question and he doesn't answer because he wasn't listening in the first place. Maybe you should post that to all the WS's? What do you think? I think it would not come off as
interrogating if they read it from non bias person. OK just a thought!

Ben,

I am so sorry for your misfortune's. I can deeply understand your pain and anger. I am right there along with you. Print out the article and show it to you W. If she cares, hopefully she'll get some clue to what you are feeling.
I can understand about wanting to end your marriage. To have this happen in the very beginning of your Marriage is disturbing. Not only is it disturbing, there are a lot of warning flags that need to be addressed.

Good luck and don't beat up the guy, as much as you want to, it will not prove anything except that you know how to hit. He'll only feel the pain for a short period of time and get on with his life. And you will feel just a little satisfaction for the time being. Then you will be right where you started from, Dazed and confused! The cycle is vicious. Try to use your anger constructively rather than abusive. OK?

Ali~

Why this message posted twice is beyond me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ December 20, 2004, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Ali88 ]</small>

Ben sorry not to get back to you right away but I was having a few problems with my H last few days, no R as such just other stuff & he needed some support even if he didnt know it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Anyway

thanks for your info. Your WW does sound so much like me in the attitude dept when I was trying to handle my emotions and fears.
Very very common this feeling from WW to say 'hey its over, get over it lets get on with life!! '
Not realistic at all but we cant see that because it was YOUR fault we had the affair, and that it rained and that it snowed and that .. well you get the idea.
So first thing you need to start doing is NOT get angry in her presence or talking with her, she will need some space to feel 'safe' to tell you the how & why & when. It seems to me she is saying one thing that is a biggy for her & that is you distance yourself from her and wont let her in, thus the letter thing. Need some work in this area no matter what you do in the future Ben.

However though your ww has said there is no contact remember you cannot trust what a ww says, trust what they actually do, their actions.
Until you have evidence of no contact you should consider she is IN contact with OM.

Why do I say this? well there seems little remorse or even regret she had the affair and yes you wouldnt get much anyway right away but she seems so UNWILLING to even discuss the M & affair issues, she is not wanting to move back o discuss that apparently, so it leads me to think there is contact with OM going on.
In other words she keeps you hanging around in 'reserve' if the OM thing isnt working in her mind at least even if not in practise.
Eg the cake eating thing you hear of on this site.

Now that being the case, you need to consider how you can plan a way to either bring her back into the M or you to get out of it.
Its your choice what YOU do (and of course HER choice what she does, but you cant make her decide anything).
SO that being the case I recommend you speak to either one of the Harleys on this site or Cerri or one of the Marriage coaches at http://www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com to help you formulate a plan that can work with your wife.
Being separated I'm not sure if plan A just by itself will help a lot so pls consider the above people for your sake.

There are no guarantees of course but its got to be better than the confusion you are experiencing right now.

Remember you can post to vent & ask more questions whenever you need to.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You can recover. Many people have. It isn't easy, and not everyone succeeds, but as long as you are both working on it, your chances are close to 100%. To have the best chance, do three things:

1.) Learn. The most important and helpful single source of information for my wife and I was "Surviving an Affair" by Willard Harley (hereinafter referred to as "SAA") available at the Bookstore, Amazon.com, and bookstores all over. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of "the message of the affair" (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them. So that you can get started right away, while waiting for SAA to arrive in the mail, read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity

The phrase "the message of the affair" is from the book "Torn Asunder", by Carder (hereinafter referred to as "TA"). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read "The State of Affairs", (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC's are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don't cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC's in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

Of course, that is just my opinions and what worked for me, who experienced it once, first hand. Harley, who has helped HUNDREDS of couples through this process, lays out his program in the following link: How to Survive Infidelity You will find that I mostly followed his plan. It works. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">