My fiancee and I have always had quite a few problems. Our main problem is angry outbursts. We have arguements and would yell at each other a lot. Since we've read this website together, this has gotten much, much better. But, there has always been some insecurity in our relationship because of how heated and hateful we could get.

One of the things that I would do after a large arguement or after having a series of problems with him would be to go online and chat with random guys. I didn't want a sex, I just wanted someone to talk to. I would have never met any people off of the internet. And, I really had no connection to them. Just a few days ago... I found that my fiancee has been doing the same thing. I was devistated. I always thought that he was completely faithful. I never expected that he would do something like that. What I found on the computer, was a secret messsenger account and email account that he had been keeping and hiding. He had a list of several female names (who he claimed to barely talk to) as well as an online dating profile. It looks as if he has used it quite a bit. Although this may seem like I have double standards, I believe his actions were far more elaborate and sneaky than my own. I feel so sad and confused and talked and questioned him a lot about it.

When I found out, he was very upset, he left for about 2 hours and then came back to talk. He told me that those people were meaningless and I told him I understood because I had done the same thing. He also told me that he realized after this that he was so in love with me and nothing could replace or be at all the same as what we have. He told me that he would delete those profiles, contacts and emails and he did. He told me he would never do it again, and since then... for the last two days... he has been very loving and seems to really want our relationship to be successful. My main problem is that his email (Hotmail) account hasn't been deleted. He said he changed the password and the secret question by closing his eyes and resetting it so even he couldn't get in. I have asked him over and over if this is true and that he won't do it again but I have a hard time believing him. I want to trust him and just let it go. I want to work on our relationship but I find that it is the only thing I can think about. I have read lots on this site about forgiving and infidelity. I just don't know how I can trust him after this. Would it be naive of me to just believe him? What should I do? I would love any feedback! Thank you

<small>[ December 22, 2004, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: almostmarried ]</small>

Welcome to the forum chere. Sounds like both of you guys have been hurting and that you need to concentrate on filling each other's needs. I actually think HE is being far more accountable than YOU are. You are minimizing what you did....and vilifying what he did....and from where I'm sitting...they look VERY VERY similar. How about concentrating on you and what you can do for now?

Not trying to sound rude, but have YOU done the same? What steps have you taken to break YOUR habit of hopping on line and chatting with guys?

Im not saying two rights make a wrong, but if your still doing it, can you really ask him to stop?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by john3479:
<strong> Not trying to sound rude, but have YOU done the same? What steps have you taken to break YOUR habit of hopping on line and chatting with guys?

Im not saying two rights make a wrong, but if your still doing it, can you really ask him to stop? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for asking! I appreciate the discussion.

The reason I feel so different between him and I is because he was so secretive. I have asked him if he talked to other people online and he has clearly said 'no'. I have realized there have been instances where he has outright lied to me. In addition, when we first started dating (only 1 or 2 months in) I found that he had been doing the same thing, but not covering his tracks because he didn't realize it would upset me that much. I can understand that, our committment wasn't as serious as it is now. But, at that time, he knew how upsetting it was to me...

I guess you could say I trust myself. I easily deleted all profiles and emails. He didn't. He says that he did but I have no way of knowing that for sure, especially since he has lied.

I guess the difference I feel is that even though the actions have been the same, he has lied throughout and I haven't, I've been honest with everything... make any sense???

Hi AM,

Thanks so much for not being offended...that is a good sign of openess and a desire to recover!! hugs!

The reason I feel so different between him and I is because he was so secretive. I have asked him if he talked to other people online and he has clearly said 'no'. I have realized there have been instances where he has outright lied to me.

But see....you simply lied by omission...he didn't ask and you didn't tell. In your eyes, that's better...but ethically, they are both very wrong chere and both very destructive.

In addition, when we first started dating (only 1 or 2 months in) I found that he had been doing the same thing, but not covering his tracks because he didn't realize it would upset me that much. I can understand that, our committment wasn't as serious as it is now. But, at that time, he knew how upsetting it was to me...

Again, you seem to be dismissing, minimizing and ignoring the fact that EACH of you went outside the relationship to have your needs met rather than confronting the problems and trying to solve them WITHIN the relationship. If you can't do that BEFORE marrying....do you think it will get EASIER? Honesty and OPENESS are habits that need to be developed now.

I guess you could say I trust myself. I easily deleted all profiles and emails. He didn't. He says that he did but I have no way of knowing that for sure, especially since he has lied.

This is normal...to trust ourselves the most because we can't hide anything from ourselves...but it's unrealistic to expect that you will trust him as much as you trust yourself...and Dr. Harley says...YOU SHOULDN'T. Only fools completely trust another person....a smart partner....puts safeguards, precautions, agreements, contracts in place to protect their greatest asset...their marriage. We are all wired to have an affair...it's part of our biochemistry....but with some care, protection, time and honesty....we can build good marriages that can withstand temptation.

I guess the difference I feel is that even though the actions have been the same, he has lied throughout and I haven't, I've been honest with everything... make any sense???

Have you been honest? Or just silent? That's not the same thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I guess the difference I feel is that even though the actions have been the same, he has lied throughout and I haven't, I've been honest with everything... make any sense???

Star asks a very good question.

I do have an additional concern. If you were getting on after a fight with him, were you doing it to " get back " at him? And if it was out of anger, how honest were you with the people you were chatting with?

It sounds like after a fight you were turning to other males for an emotional high.

Good question.

Although this situation makes me sound a little sketchy, I'm actually one of those really really honest people. I don't lie very much at all. Likewise, when I was online talking to other guys, it wasn't to "get back" at anyone... I was just trying to fill my own need of talking stuff out. Instead of talking stuff out with him, I'd talk stuff out with other people. I wished I could have talked to him those times or been with him 'cause I may have been lonely... but I was talking to other people... always honest to them as well.

But, the more I am writing about this, and the more I talk to you guys... I realize that my fiancee's efforts may be just as genuine as my own. He is such a wondeful, loving partner, I just wish he knew. I tell him but sometimes our anger, and stupid problems overshadow that. If we could get by them, our relationship would be amazing.

P.S. My biggest problem right now is the fear that he is just telling me what I want to hear. I want to believe that talking to those other women made him realize how good he had it and how much he loves me. Also, I am really scared that his change isn't permanent and it will just go back to that... or, that he hasn't even changed at all!!!

Almost, quick question. Have you guys set a wedding date yet?

Okay, actually two quick questions. Have the two of you considered doing premarital counseling to try to work on your issues BEFORE you get married? I don't know if you are planning a church wedding or a civil ceremony, but I know a lot of pastors insist on some kind of premarital counseling before they will even agree to perform the ceremony.

almost,

Although this situation makes me sound a little sketchy, I'm actually one of those really really honest people. I don't lie very much at all. Likewise, when I was online talking to other guys, it wasn't to "get back" at anyone... I was just trying to fill my own need of talking stuff out.

I believe you chere....but the truth is that this is very dangerous to marriage no matter how innocent your intent was. It shows a lack of good boundaries....not that dissimilar to what H did.

Instead of talking stuff out with him, I'd talk stuff out with other people. I wished I could have talked to him those times or been with him 'cause I may have been lonely... but I was talking to other people... always honest to them as well.

Ah....and here's the RUB...you COULD have talked to him and didn't!! It was YOUR choice...to talk to him or talk to strangers....and you made the choice to talk to others. Perhaps you were avoiding conflict, or maybe you were not comfortable...but you can't blame your lack of integrity on him.....no matter what your reasons were. He could just as easily say you weren't meeting his needs....that's why he sought out others. The truth....is that both of you felt disconnected. He may be 50% responsible for why you the relationship was vulnerable...but you are 100% responsible for choosing to talk to others instead of him.

But, the more I am writing about this, and the more I talk to you guys... I realize that my fiancee's efforts may be just as genuine as my own. He is such a wondeful, loving partner, I just wish he knew. I tell him but sometimes our anger, and stupid problems overshadow that. If we could get by them, our relationship would be amazing.

Yep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

P.S. My biggest problem right now is the fear that he is just telling me what I want to hear. I want to believe that talking to those other women made him realize how good he had it and how much he loves me. Also, I am really scared that his change isn't permanent and it will just go back to that... or, that he hasn't even changed at all!!!

Chere....don't you think he might have the same fears? Y'all hurt each other....you can both do better. Concentrate on you....and you will make the most progress. This is doable and fixable if you can both make a PLAN to successfully safeguard your relationship. Each of you need to to open your lives to each other right now....until trust is rebuilt.

I have a book to recommend. "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. Everything you need to safeguard your marriage is in there for setting good marital boundaries with the opposite sex. Start there....and let us know how it goes.

Merry Christmas!!!

Maybe you've answered this question and I've missed it, but have you deleted your Internet contacts, profiles and e-mails?

almost,

Just as an aside....while you're evaluating the differences in your's and H's motives....consider this: When you had problems with your realtionship, did you seek out the counsel and support of your friends or family? Like your girlfreinds? or even your male friends that are also 'friends to the marriage"? Or did you seek out strangers of the opposite sex? Can you see the danger in that? The risk in that? If you can....you'll go a long way in understanding how this happens, why it's similar, forgiveable...and mostly....what needs to be done to prevent it.

Good luck chere!!

Addressing questions:

No, we haven't set a wedding date. My wedding isn't really going to be spectacular, I'm not into that kind of thing so once we have decided it is financially feasable to get married, we'll probably go to city hall <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We have often considered seeing a therapist or something 'cause of our initial anger towards each other, that or a pastor is definitely in the future regardless of where this situation takes us...

And yes, I have deleted all emails and contacts and anything related to any other man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

And SF, you have provided me with some great insight. I would love to think that my FH is definitely trying as hard as I am! So, you have shown me I should work a little on myself first <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> And, hopefully his improvements will follow. I guess if we haven't parted ways yet, he does really deep down want a success. Thank you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />