Hi Guys,

I am a newbie so bear with me. I recently confirmed that my wife is having an A. I had suspected something was going on since late November but the weekend before Christmas, I confirmed it.

I confronted her with it the day I confirmed it. She got mad and withdrew from me.

She and I talked about it 2 days latter. She denied it was physical but I knew otherwise. The physical part is much less of a threat to me than the loss of her emotionally.

That day we talked and laughed and cried until 3 in the A.M.

I accept my part in not meeting her needs. I was too busy providing for us financially to attend to the other things she needed more.

2 days latter I called the OM to ask him to end it. He said he would, that it was wrong, for several reasons. I gave him an out to allow him to save face. I, also, left him with a veiled threat about disclosure to his SOF. He has a great deal to lose if he and his SOF breakup.

My wife confronted me on the phone call the next day. I admitted I made it and gave her a brief description of the call. Somebody has got to be truthful here.

An interesting side note, The OM tried to engage me in social conversation during the phone call.

He has multiple marriages, a reputation as a womanizer, and my wife has described him as being somewhat maniac-depressive. My conclusion is sociapathic.

We have had a couple of other talks since then. I have laid down ground rules that she is not to lie to me, i.e.if I ask a question, she either answers truthfully or don't answer it. The second is to not put this in my face. I also, made rules for myself that I wouldn't pry. ( I don't need to, I'vegot the evidence I need right now and if I need more, I can get it easily enough.

She had me promise that I wouldn't make any more calls. I am going to use a very concrete interpation of that, i.e. I can use the mail or go in person.

My question for today is, Should I got to the OM's SOF with the info I have? I would suspect she knows somethings a foot. These 2 have left a paper trail a mile wide.

There are two excellent reasons to tell this man's partner. One is that it is the ethical thing to do. This person deserves to have the information, like you, that she needs to make the life choice about whether or not to continue this relationship and safeguard that relationship if she chooses to continue. The second reason is that affairs that have pressure from both relationships are far more likely to end.

I noticed that one of the most important ground rules is not mentioned in your post, and that is the one where your WW writes a NC letter to the OM and lets you mail it. Has this been done?

As far as contacting his SOF, I agree with Star in that she has a right to know what he has done and to choose whether or not to remain in a committed relationship with him. If you haven't done so already please etch this in your mind: YOU DO NOT OWE THE OM ANYTHING. If your WW gets upset with you, calmly and respectfully tell her that as much as you love her, that you will not be a willing participant to the cruel deception of another human being, and leave her alone to ponder your words. It is not the messenger of the truth that wiill destroy her but the people involved in the affair that did so without any regards to the consequences to those closest to them.

TMCM

<small>[ December 30, 2004, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Thanks for the responses.

Too Much Coffee Man, what is an OC letter? I couldn't find it in the list except as "other child".

Your arguements for contacting the SOF are good. My concerns are that I could drive a wedge so big between us that we can't put our marriage back together. (I am new to this so there is still a lot of jumbled emotions and knee jerk reactions and not a lot of rational thought.)

Thanks for the responses.

NC=no contact letter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you for definition. I am going to think and study about approaching SOF thi weekend.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ktu136:

Your arguements for contacting the SOF are good. My concerns are that I could drive a wedge so big between us that we can't put our marriage back together.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Has your W ended all contact with the OM and recommitted to save/rebuild the marriage? If the answer is yes, then you have to apply POJA [Policy Of Joint Agreement] which is to do nothing without the enthusiastic agreement of you AND your W. But if the answer is no then exposure of the affair to the SOF is a must that you have implement to help end the affair. So which is it?

TMCM

Hi Guys,

This has been an interesting day, in the arabian curse, may you live in interesting times.

I arranged to havea "date" with my wife, i.e. time for us to spend togetherto talk. I wanted to spend time with her and show her that the man she married 20 years ago was still there.

All went well for the most part. We talked about things that had happened in the past that both she and I resent about each other actions in the past. For the most part, it went well. Then, the stuff hit the fan.

I told her that I had talked with her best friend, who is also a friend of mineAbout the situation. I talked with her the day I confirmed the affair but just told her that I knew that they were in contact and I was upset. I went to her, Fil, the best friend, to have a shoulder to cry on and to get some idea as to what was going on. Fil told me that as far as she knew, my W just had the ordinary gripes about marriage. We had dinner with Fil and her H a few days later and I told her H that MW and I had talked and were talking. I told him the "company line" that it was just conversations and no act had taking place.

Fil and her H are very religious and would take a very dim view of this if they knew the whole situation.

Boy, did the stuff hit the fan. MW was very upset and told me that she now knew why Fil had been such a space cadet at work. She felt guilty over introducing MW to OM, which was an innocent act on Fil's part.

As I was typing ths,MW handed me a note "thanking" me for giving her up to her friends. She further said that our conversation was nice up until that time. She said it was Too good to be true and what the "F" I was thinking.
She said I was only thinking for my own needs and didn't care about Fil's fragile feelings. She went on to say she was going to do what she was going to do, and when she wanted to do it. I had been giving her notes about my feelings and she said she wanted no more of them. She closed with "I honored your request to spend time with you and now this. This is the total betrayal. Its this type BS that pushes me further and further awayThink on it"

I admit contacting her friend was a knee jerk reaction but since this situation has arisen, I have developed a policy of total honesty. She asks me a question, I answer it honestly. Its bad enough that one of us is living a lie.

I would like some feedback on this. Accusing me of betrayal after what she has done is BS. I guess what I need to know is I have done something so terriably wrong.

I have had not had a chance to get a hold of Dr. Harley's books yet so I am shooting in the dark.

ktu136

Light on the situation is gonna cause some discomfort. You didn't do anything wrong.

My H was so embarrassed and disgusted with himself, he didn't want anyone to know. Getting out in the open is the best thing at this point.

Ok

classic WW action here..what she is doing is 'blaming' you for the A and diverting attention from her adultery by attacking you.

Read back your last post and imagine it as someone else. You'll see the pattern. Unfortunately its common and yes I did it too in my own way when confronted and pushed for details etc.

NOW dont get mad, at least dont let the anger rule your actions.
I think you have made some mistakes by 'agreeing' not to do things re exposure even if minor, she is acting as if she is rulng the roost.
If contact is happening you need to expose first to the family & work & friends around her all the time, then expand the circle until contact ceases.
She will get angry and declare its al over and we can never reconcile now..blah blah blah fog talk.
Unfortunately you cannot take the word of a WW, judge not by what is said but by actions.

So if you think words will get out of hand write to her like she did to you. Explain the hurt, pain and humiliation she has inflicted on you. Accept that you though you may have helped bring the M to a place where she chose adultery, SHE choose it and has to accept responsiblity for it. Its NOTHING to do with you.

DO not tell her about plan A or B they are YOUR weapons in your arsenal to save the M.

OK honesty...you should tell her you are aware of her PA of her adultery - I'm not one to mince words & think too many times we pretty up what this affair stuff is about, its adultery call it what it is. Its what I did and yes its ugly and its hurtful to everyone me included. As recovery comes its ok to say affair then because you both know whats been done. Now its a bit like shock tactics ... you say what you know but not how - again your info source is in your arsenal to save your M dont share it. If she asks then you have your 'sources'.

Its important to let her know she cannot fool you and to come clean. This will hurt both of you but can't be avoided. Hopefully she will be willing to give you information as you want it as this is SO important. If this does not happen you will likely give up in time and go. Its pretty powerful stuff do beware of what you ask for!! It may not happen right away and some counselling is probably a must.

Most important is TOTAL no contact with OM ever again. If they should run into each other in the street she has to tell you. If you dont get this recovery is impossible and you are likely to eventually give up/ move on. But its early so lets be positive.

Now read read read all on this site, do the EN quiz together or apart whatever is easier and see what each of you have to do.

This is a time where you have to worry about only you, your WW, your family and no one else. Ask about friends etc later when you have read a bit here.

Here is a good link to start of

The Path to Recovery: Johnh39's complement to WAT's quick-start guidelines


and to some handy site info as well
Acronyms, Smilies, UBB Codes

I need to sleep some now so keep posting and ask questions

Thank you everbody for the support and the advice. Someday, I hope I can do the same for others.

In responseto Aussie Woman, My philosophy has become trust but verify. MW has been reckless, almost to the point she wants to be caught.

In my previous posts, I have accepted myresponsibility for problems in the marriage. She has caused them too. She entered into adultery on her own. Despite the problems she caused me, I have kept my pants on.

I can see how she is trying to shift the blame to me. In particular, in our talk yesterday, she brought up resentments against my father, who has been dead for 14 years. I thought about this a lot and talked it over with a friend/licensed counselor who said it sounded very immature. As I think more about it, it seems to me that she is looking for things, no matter how farfetched, to justify her actions.

I have told her that I know about the physical acts. She made the mistake of leaving incriminating evidence and I have made copies of it. I have a note written to her that talks about them in coarse and demeaning language. I don't know if I should give it to her.

I have not mentioned plan A or B to her.

I do have a bomb in the closet if needed to break contact. The area I live in allows alienation of affections law suits. I can file that suit as an incentive for OM to break contact. I don't think he will risk his businesses and SOF for WW. If he does, I will be real surprised.

As I see it, her house of cards is getting shaky. I think she is, maybe not conciously, realizing that there are consequences to her actions and they are very uncomfortable. Also, she doesn't have much power as she thoght.

It has been so long since I posted last, but I read your post and wanted to offer advice to ALL those who have just learned that their spouse has been unfaithful.

The fog is SO thick in the beginning. Your spouse will often blame you for everything because if they start to look at their own actions, they have to own the responsiblity of their actions. Do not let this affect you - Hang in there and give yourself visuals to hold onto.

My marriage has ended and is going to trial on Wednesday. (I was married to a sick person who's selfish behaviour has gotten worse thru the divorce settlement. therefore, no settlement has been arrived at and my evidence of the affair isn't that strong) Most states have "no-fault" divorce, however fault is always considered in custody, support and division of assets. I HIGHLY advise you gather as much evidence as possible. Evidence that can be used in trial is as follows:

Taped phone conversations between you and your spouse where the affair is discussed. Radio Shack has a tape player that you can plug into the phone. Be sure not to tape ANY one elses conversation because that is illegal...but if you are a party to the conversation, it is admissable in court.

Photographs (Hire the private detective - but be sure the evidence goes to a friend or stays under lock and key so you don't have to see it unless you need it later) You don't want to hurt yourself more than you have to right now.

loading "Net Nanny" or Family Key Logger onto your computer can uncover secret e-mail accounts and you can obtain e-mail exchanges. The help desk at Best Buy can be very helpful with this.

Most of all, Read as much as you can about marriage from this site. I have grown so much and fully understand how to improve myself. I did that at first to improve myself for my so I could be better in my marriage. I wanted so badly to hold our marriage together, but now I have done it for myself and it has helped me move on with life. I filed for divorce last October and all that I learned from Magnolia, TMCM and others has been invaluable in taking care of myself!!!!

Take Good Care!!!

I wish you such luck and I will hold you in my prayers.

Hi Guys.

Made it through the day without killing anyone. Thats a miracle as my primary emotion today was rage.

I sure wish I could figure out what is going on in her head. With the Eposure of EA to friend,I don't know if she is starting to see consequences or what.

I think my best bet right now in regard to WW is to be cool until I read the surviving affairs book. It should be here Wed or Thurs. Open to advice on this.

Thanks

I am trying to figure somethings out here and hoping somebody cangive me some insights.

In my investigating for details on the A, I came accross part of an unsent letter and some journal type stuff. In the one letter, to the OM, I came accross a description of me as a "very good man". She went on to talk about not feeling passion for me now. She said she didn't want to live another 21years without passion.

In one of our talks since the A has become open knowledge to me, I ask her if she ever felt passion for me and she said yes, earlier in our marriage.

Another batch of writing I found, which was more of a diary than a letter, she had written that she loved me and but that our relationship was more like a brother/sister. She asked"G.F( don't know who or what that stands for) what do I do? I don't want to live without passion.

A further thing I am trying to figure out is what, if anything, going through menopause might contribute to the situation. WW has had PMS in the past, though she will deny that hormones affect her behavior. (I know they do because I have had to "duck and cover" during the PMS episodes.) This year she started "the change of life" and she had a lot of problems with irritability, including tearing a swinging door off its hinges.

If anybody could give me some insights here, I would appreciate it.

ktu

The average age of a natural menopause is between late 40's and early 50's, although every woman is different.
There are many different signs and symptoms and these may occur before and after the last period.

The symptoms may include:-

Hot flushes
Lack of concentration
Night sweats
Dry vagina
Palpitations
Painful intercourse
Mood Swings
Irritability
Inability to sleep
Crawling sensations over skin
Forgetfulness
Heavy Periods
Memory Loss
Headaches.

Aint it fun to be a woman.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
For most women these symptoms are temporary. But in others they can effect their quality of life.

OK that said...IT IS NOT AN EXCUSE FOR HAVING AN AFFAIR...ok???????

Don't look for excuses for her, the more you do so the more you prolong the pain & you solve nothing. I understand its a feeling born of your love and confusion but it just does not help.

WHY did she seek an affair?..... could be a number of reasons the most likely is that you were not meeting her emotional needs. Why didn't she ask you to...well who knows..I not sure why I did not ask either. Didn't thats the fact.

So you need to face she is in a full blown affair.

Now what do you do?

Well there are two options..
[1] leave the M and ask for divorce
[2] fight for her and the Marriage.

IF ITS [1] I CAN ONLY SUGGEST YOU ASK FOR IT ASAP AND DO IT AS PAINLESSLY AS POSSIBLE.

IF ITS [2]

THEN THERE IS SOME WORK TO DO....

you need to read all the info on this site and get the books recommended as well ... helps you understand the concepts and why affairs happen and what the process is.

Now in the mean time you need to start plan A thats explained here

The Path to Recovery: Johnh39's complement to WAT's quick-start guidelines

In John39's link which is a very good link to great info to get you started.

Start right away as soon as you understand it...any questions just post away, or vent or whatever, we'll try to help <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ January 04, 2005, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: aussieswife ]</small>

Thanks for response ,Aussie wife.

She has had many of the symptoms described which I knew. I guess what I am trying to find out is aboutChanges in self image and feeling feminine.

I know that adultery has taken place. I know at least 2 of the locations, some of the acts, and at least 2 dates and probably 4.

I know that I'll fight to keep our marriage alive and to make it much better provided she puts in the same effort.

Have I finished the confrontations with her and her adultery, no. If I do it now, there is too good a chance that I will lose it and beat the S*** out of her and I have never struck her in 22 years together.

I , also, want to read SAA before I do it. It should be here tomorrow. I want to have a game plan rather than the knee jerk reactions I have been doing.

As to meeting her needs, I haven't met hers and she hasn't met mine. We are equal in that light and if we are to stay together, we both have to work on it.

Thats good ktu

dont confront while you cannot control anger or emotions its a recipe for disaster as you thought.

While its important not to delay confronting its also inportant to do it right. A little delay now will pay positives dividends later.

Now some important things to know...there is no guarentee ANY plan will work. However the odds are in your favour as most women do not leave M after an affair. The H might end the M but most WW eventually want to reconcile.

don't expect ANYTHING from her for a long while. Even in recovery she may not be able to meet many of your EN's for some time, be prepared for the long haul.

As you expose the both of them and shed light on the shabby secret, she will be angry and blame you for everthing incl original sin - I did not for long but I did the poor guy - she will rewrite your years together, that she never was happy, didn't love you when you were M, blah blah blah and say so many hurtful things. We call this fog talk here or the aliens have abducted the H or w...you'll see what I mean as time goes on.

Plan A is important to understand so many get it wrong and think its ok for the WS to walk all over them...wrong its a plan to end the affair. Read it carefully.

Now I hope your confrontation will shock her into ending the A right away and agreeing to non contact - perhaps even sooner now. Thats a reason to confront early..end contact with OM but expect relapse from her.

Now last but not least for tonight, there is nothing wrong with expressing to her the pain of her conduct has inflicted on you. DONT DO IT IN ANGER. Tell her the pain & hurt, let her know you are questioning the M but also feel at this time you should both work on rebuilding it.
Honesty is important in this. eg if she is still contacting OM now why not say to her - NOT YELLING - dont you realise the hurt and pain you cause me when you contact OM???

THis is not allowing her to have her fun little fantasy as 'someone' you is being hurt...you mean spolier you!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Keep reading, wait for the book and if angry..go punch a bag of sand or something before talking to her.

Thanks for response A.W.

I have told her about the pain and hurt she has caused me. I will do so again as I confront her again on it.

Her response first time was "I have to do what I have to do for me." It may be somewhat different now as she is seeing more consequences of her actions and not many of them are good.

As to meeting the emotional needs. I expect that I will be the giver for a long time. I can handle it if it means we have abetter marriage.

I have already seen the "revised history of our marriage from her. Boy, I didn't know that I was such an ogre.

I have seen a lot psych ploys from her recently trying to shift blame, rationalize behavior, etc. I think the feelings of guilt and the realization of negative consequences are getting her uncomfortable.

I do sense, in my talks with WW, that affair maybe cooling some as it gets more exposed.This is the gut instinct I have. I, also, may be wrong.

I do know that they have not been together for close to 3 weeks, except on telephone. She 'll be hard pressed to see him for a couple of more because I will be working in my shop which is here at the house. She doesn't drive so she have to use a cab to meet him. She also knows that if she does,that in a civilized manner, I will get my "evens".

Didn't receive book today which was disappointing. I am like a kid waiting for Christmas on it.

Thanks and I look forward to any other thoughts you have.

Got a second issue I need advice on.

WW is insistent that next month she is going on vacation by herself to an island up the coast from here. The OM lives there along with his SOF.

She promises that she is not going to stay at the OM's B&B but another place. I am sure she is telling me the truth here. WW and OM are acting stupid but they are smart enough not to screw around where the SOF can find out easily.

Any suggestions on how to handle this. I have put off discussing this until I have a better grip on myself.

DANGER DANGER DANGER

this is a common ploy ktu, most commonly expressed as 'I need to get some time to myself to think things through, get my head straight etc etc .

To be blunt in most cases its a meeting with OM to have SF.

Basically you cannot control what she does and but you can express your opposition and say we should be spending the time working on our M.
Of course you'll be brushed off I suppose.

Sorry ktu this is not good news I think. While it MAY be innocent - theres the possiblity I suppose - I'd not bank on it.
Seriously consider a PI if you can afford it....I understand its not too expensive for a few days.

A MB member who had a similar issue said as his WW was puttering around getting ready to go on her happy little trip he left 1 or 2 divorce proceedings booklets from the courthouse opened on the dining room table & next to the phone etc .... he didn't think she enjoyed her trip after that...
but maybe the PI is a better idea for you at this stage...depends on how YOU feel about things.

But you should expose to OM's SOF right now!!!

If you believe the best of them & they will use you I'm afriad........ as for not contacting with SOF around dont believe it. I sorry but her actions do not seem to match the actions of faithful wife.