Good morning everyone. 'Cept 2 in SoCal where it is still snooze time. I hope you're cuddling in bed with your big H. Thanks for the Bible input.

My blah day turned worse when my wife came home. I can't even explain why -specifically- other than just an E disconnect on my part as a result of thinking "backward" (my bad) and not feeling like she is initiating the meeting of my needs. (Yes 2 I know that God meets my needs not her). I do most all the initiating of the tender, creative, surprise, thoughtful stuff you wish your H's would do for you, and in return I get a little of that...but not MORE. In some ways it fuels my backward thinking cuz that is how it used to be pre-A. Things between us stayed surface and roommate-ish. Little passion and imagination. She did to me at times what she thought I expected (within her comfort zone). Am I wishing for too much? Is this the normal marriage sit? Are there actually women out there who long for their H in bed and want to be the aggressor? If I'm desiring too much plz set me straight. And yes, I have mentioned this to my W and she has said she feels sometimes like I am testing her. Well? Last note...she did try this morning by offering me what I like and rarely receive...and then the full enchilada between the 2 of us. Final scoreboard read: W's "O"-2; H's "O" - zero! Don't know why. I guess I'll go back to the bench and wait for my next turn at bat. I'll be waiting to hear from you all...and to get a good butt-kickin' from 2!

Good morning Rocked. Very early here, but I get up every other Friday for a conference call prayer time with some girlfriends from college. So here I am! I will be gone most of the day running errands for my daughters 4th birthday tomorrow. So don't feel like doing this!

Anyway, sorry that you are feeling unmet. I think at this time, SHE is supposed to be OVER compensating with you. I felt like from the beginning of this that you were doing ALOT. I think that is great, but really, she is the one who needs to be doing A LOT. You know that from the beginning that has been my philosphy. Like a friend told me, "She ran over you with a MAC truck and broke every bone in your body. She needs to be nurturing you back to health."

I admire all you are doing, but if she isn't doing much, she needs to step up to the plate! I don't know how you can get that across to her if you are telling her, but I will pray that she gets the message.

Anyway, I am will pray for you and check in with you guys later today.

2, Thanks. I have to run out for awhile too. Will be early afternoon before I can read and post again. Here's what motivates me partly to do all I do for my W...the fact that my not doing enough for her before partly created the environment for her to need/want to look elsewhere. I don't want to NOW send any signals that cause her to look elsewhere. Even tho she has repented, told me she is sorry, has shown turn-around behavior since D-Day, and promised to never do that again. Maybe it's paranoia on my part? Or the desire to forgive and be a healthy need-meeter. I'm confused.

Have a good day ladies!

Rocked...funny how you should start my day off with this exact topic!

I can't wait for my H to be home. I can't wait for my "pat on the head"...oh, pathetic me.
My H worked 48 hours since this morning. Today he has vehicle errands and a doctor appt, so he won't be home until early afternoon.

I woke up, same as yesterday, with this feeling like he should be doing a bit more for me. He calls at least twice a day, but he doesn't have much to say. Feels like he doesn't want to converse (could be afraid of R talk...)

Yes, there are women out there who like all the "special" treats, cards and notes, and flowers and gifts, etc (did I cover them all???). But, alas as well as being a non "compliment" kind a guy, my H falls short in this area too. A bit better since D Day, but still wains. Maybe it's me, but ya'd think he might even write me a little "email" note or something when he's gone for so long. For years (and I mean years) I have told him, "to get in my pants (sorry TMI), you need to get in my head and heart first".

It drives me crazy when a man says "my wife doesn't like sex" and he treats her like his buddy instead of his lover. (Or like his "wife", ha!)

Here is something I need your help with. The fire guys at the station do these "guy" trips. The are all planning a ski trip the end of February and have asked my H to go. He has told me about this trip 3 x's now. First about it and he says he isn't going, he has dept classes. Then he tells me the guys asked him again. Then he tells me he can't go at that time because of these classes again. He is always been wishy washy (is that still a cool term?? ha!) I feel this is when he is in his "conflict avoidance" mode.

I told him he should do what he feels he wants to do. Me on the other hand, with all what we are going through right now, feel he shouldn't have even told me and told the guys no, or how about telling me, the guys asked him but under our circumstances, he feels he shouldn't go away like that.

I don't want to start building a resentment to this trip. Because usually the end product will be, he will go and I will make "the face" as he puts it.
Am I asking too much??

I am with 2, that our WS's should be making a concious effort until we feel safe and have at least 50% of our trust back.

Okay, I'm back. Holiday, are you asking me if I would approve of your H going on that trip? Hmmm? What do firemen do on those trips? If it is anything that makes you feel uncomfortable or puts you on the line of not trusting him I would say NO. I wish for you that he would choose to prioritize being with you than his buddies. Even if your together time is difficult right now. Sounds like he's still keeping a distance there tho. If you "give in" against your better judgement will he think he's one-up'd you and determine he can use that trick more often in the future? I would think at some point he needs to make the tough manly choice to prioritize you and begin/continue the recovery process -OR- choose to end it all and move on. I would hope and pray for the former. Just be careful not to be guilty of being the "enabler" in your relationship

Hi Rocked-

These are a great group of guys. Most we ride (Harley) with and I know all of their wives very well. I don't feel this would be one of "those" kinds of trips for my H. The firemen all look up to one another where there wives are concerned (well, for the most part that I've witnessed). I don't have a bad feeling about the trip, it's his indecision that bothers me.

Perhaps, it's his way of telling me he wants to go, but, under our circumstances, he feels he can't and now he's feeling the pressure (good!).
Would you define "enabler" in this sitch for me. I understand what an enabler is, and I am sure for the most part, I am one. But, I would like you to clarify your statement for me.

He came home between appts today and picked me up so I could go with him. He's been giving me my "pat on the head" and I really appreciate it. We had another "good" talk about our conflict avoidance issue. Also, I told him about some of what I read last night in His Needs, Her Needs (excellent book, I could have wrote it myself!). I talked to him about the sexual arousal chapter, how for a man thinking about sex makes him aroused and how his affection, notes, compliments etc turn me on in the same way.

Well, back to sewing.
I hope you all have a wonderful Friday. I will look for you later if possible.

Holiday,
Enabler in your situation would be not telling him directly what you want..or do/don't want him to go on trip. So it leaves him to have to waffle about his decision making. In his mind knowing what he wants, but not feeling comfortable enought to voice that out to you. You would empower him by letting him know up-front how YOU feel about it although you are giving him the final decision (if in fact that's what you are doing).

Comforter? Pants hemline? Afghan?

Rocked-So, are you saying, I should tell him what I want and he that way he will have to deal with what I want and make his decision (sorry for being such a girl here)?
I sew vintage fabrics into, sachets, pillows and children's clothes for ebay.
Also, are you really a Chipendale dancer, that is just so waaaaaaaaay out there?

Yes, tell him what you want regarding the trip and then leave the decision up to him. That way he doesn't have to guess but he still gets to ultimately decide.

Tell me how I can see your stuff on ebay?

My dance videos are available on ebay too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

(just kidding) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hey guys! Got a minute to check in and need your advice on something. First - Holiday, tell him NO WAY is he going. I've already made it clear to my husband to "not even part your lips to ask me anything like that for at least a year." So you should tell him the same. He does not get to go, because he has proved himself untrustworthy. When you feel different and he has proven himself trustworthy, he can go.

Here is my situation today. As you now all know I discovered my husband was having an inappropriate relationship with another girl while he was in his affair. So today I called her I will call her OW2. I called her because after examining the phone records again, my husband was flip flopping between the two of them something awful! He'd call one, then the other, then the other...back to back until he reached whoever first. Clearly an emotional relationship if nothing more. So I called OW2 today and asked her about her relationship with my husband.

She was nice and polite and said that they had been just friends (I decided not to educate her on emotionals affairs...which they clearly were involved in). I told her the reason I asked was because my husband had a "friendship" gone bad with OW1. I told her, he had in fact had a year long affair with OW1. She was shocked...she told me so. I don't know if she was hurt...I couldn't pick that up, but she was clearly shocked. She had heard my husband mention OW1 and assumed they were friends like OW2 and he was.

She assured me it had not crossed the line. I thanked her for that (by the way, I do not know her at all, unlike OW1) and she said she understood, though she was hurt by it, she understood that her relationship with my husband had to end. She promised me she would respect that.

I called my husband right after to tell him about the call. He was calm, but told me I was wrong for sharing that information about OW1 with OW2. He is firm that I behaved inappropriately by telling OW2 what I did. I did not reveal any details to OW2, only wanted to explain to her why I was calling, why I was concerned and why "their friendship" had to end.

Was I wrong?

Also, my husband told me OW1 cornered him several weeks back to ask him if the relationship had been "real". If she knew about OW2, I think she'd get her answer. Should I tell her? I have a problem with her OW1 believing she was that important and special to him. If she knew about OW2, it would make the picture much clearer to her, like it did to me. Thoughts?

Thanks guys

Hmmm, real quick 2...I feel you shouldn't contact these women. OW1 will (I feel) use this against you in the long run. OW2, I bet knew about OW1 and isn't telling you so.

I just don't know if running around asking all this of the OW's is such a great idea for M recovery. I just have a bad feeling about it. I feel it's starting to wear on your H.

My H told me just a moment ago (I told him about my MB conversation with you all) that he isn't going on the trip.

Rocked-I will email you my seller name.

I will chat more in a bit...

Thank you for the good advice Holiday. I agree with you that OW1 will use it against me. That is the reason I have been hesitant to begin with about calling her. I think you are right.

I am curious however why you think OW2 knew about OW1 and isn't telling me. What is your insight on that, because that is NOT the impression I got at all from her or my husband.

Yes, it is wearing on my husband. I know that and although I don't want it to, I can't help but feel this need to verify EVERYTHING he is telling me. Do you think it is because he lied to me about having an affair?! I was pleased that OW2 said the relationship was similar. He is either being honest, or he prepped her well.

Anyway, give me your insight. Talk to you later.

Hi 2, on my way to the jacuzzi. Took my H to two excercise classes tonight and it beat him up pretty bad (and he's the more physically fit one, ha!)

About the OW2 knowing...How about this thought. She was his friend truthfully and he was confiding in her about you and OW1. What do you think? Perhaps she was a friend that hadn't got to EA yet. Maybe she made him start to "think" what he was doing wrong in his M, but at the same time began to have feelings for him. I hope I am making this make sense to you.


When my H and I went to our "first" MC, years ago, the C said my H was a "Plan B" type person. If Plan A isn't going well, he always had "Plan B". The C told me I was a mind reader. That by the way my H communicated to me, I had to guess at what he was thinking and I had a 50% chance at being right or wrong. Hmmmm, makes me think how far we haven't come.

About your lack of trust because of his lies...that's why we are all here. I could hear the story over and over and over and over and still have a hard time believing everything my H tells me. I suppose this is what we need to be patient about and allow the healing of time to work.

My gut feeling is that OW2 knew everything. This is not a bad thing. Your H probably wanted to tell you all about this when it first went down, but perhaps became "fogged" in the A.

It's funny how you and I are so different in wanting to contact the OW. I have no need nor want to discuss anything with her. She is a dirty bug (my PG-13 version here) that I want no part of. I don't want her knowing anything about my life, my family nor my H any further. I will not give her the fuel to think she means anything to me.

I will write more with you in the am. I hope you are having a good night. My prayers to you all.

Hey Everyone! Hope your Saturday goes well. Been talking with my wife about issues. Trying to each learn how to communicate needs in ways that don't set each other off. She's trying to be open to my needs but I feel there's a long way to go. I have to motivate myself to meet hers despite how I feel. Ugh.

We are working out daily at our local YMCA and the "hard bodies" are starting to take shape. Of course as a professional dancer I feel I'm pretty much just trying to stay toned up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thinking of all of you often.

Hi Rocked...everybody,

I have my daughter's b-day party today. Soooooo don't feel like it. REALLY bad day yesterday. My husband was upset that I called OW2 and told her about OW1. Oh well.

Our MC told me about OW1 that he might mourn the end of that relationship. Because he had ended it before I knew, he said he had in essence already done that. But last night he seemed somber and I thought about him mourning OW2. When I asked him about it he said "I'm just sad that that's the end of a good friendship." I told him I was sad for him, but because he stepped the boundries, it had to be that way.

Anyway, he's at a men's bible study this morning and I'm getting everything ready for the party. I just woke up feeling like this is never going to end. He will always have some "groupie" whether sexual or not on the side. I told him I couldn't believe I had been reduced to a woman on Jerry Springer...confronting not only 1, but 2 other women about their relationship with my husband. What a sad state. I told him I couldn't believe this was my life. I can't.

So pray for me today. I'll check in when I can.

Rocked, I'm feeling you buddy and I will pray for you too.

Hey all! Nice(not really) to see everybody is in the same boat with me. I can't believe you were talking about the same thing I felt yesterday. I feel like such a pathetic loser for going after this man that hurt me. It's like every kind word/gesture he gives me is a gift. Shouldn't he be feeling that my staying with him is a gift? Shouldn't he be the one cuddling up to me at night, and touching me gently, and kissing my head while he says I Love You, True?
Two nights ago I was in one of those hopeless moods and I told him that there was nothing he could do or say that will ever be enough for me to forgive him. He can't ever do anything that will change the fact that he didn't care enough for our marriage to stop her or himself. But then, I started crying while he was cuddling with me, b/c all I wanted him to do was say I love you and I am so sorry. I think he thinks he's said it enough. EVERY DAY FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE! Right?
Today, however, I went to the MC. He was very nice and told me that I had a good handle on the sitch, and that it sounded like my H and I had a "good marriage" before the affair; we had just lost track. I thought, no, we had a good marriage, but my H was so curious about having sex with other people that it didn't cross his mind that there were consequences, and that he could develop an emotional bond with someone else afterward. However, I said I knew that I needed to change some things about me, but that I don't know if I can.
Anyway, 2, I do not think you were wrong in calling the OW. I have not called the OW in my case, but that is b/c I would NOT be civil to her. Your H has no right to tell you who you can/cannot tell. He gave up his rights when he slept with another women.
Holiday, I am so glad your H is not going on that trip. My H was gone for the day on Wed. and I went nuts.
Rocked, I WISH all of our Hs were a devoted as you seem to be. I know, I know, you'll admit that it's b/c of the A. And that's ok, just keep at it. I hope you get what you deserve.
DogMom, where are you?
SJS, glad you are still on board. Taking the details at your own pace, that's a great idea. But be prepared for your H to get sick of answering. They feel guilty and ashamed, but keep at it. I asked my H today if he had any pet names for the slut. He said not regular ones, but that he probably called her sweetie or honey or something b/c it's natural to start doing that. It doesn't seem natural to me unless you've been in a relationship for a long time. What do you guys think? Am I nuts? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
One last thing, I have been thinking of selling my wedding dress. I was saving it in case one of my daughters wanted it, but now I feel it is tainted. I LOVED that dress, and had my kids try it on this summer with me. It was such a great thing seeing my girls look so beautiful, and to dream of their own wedding. Now, when I look at it, or at our wedding pictures, I just grow sad. What do you guys think? Should I wait, or toss it?

T-Please don't toss that wedding dress. I think you will regret it later. Think of it as tarnished, not tainted, so that way through recovery you can "polish" it for your daughters to borrow in the future.
My H is also getting "tired" of the Q & A sessions. But, we are getting through it. I just watch my tone of voice and explain, "the more I know, the more I can put behind me". He's been less frustrated in the past weeks with it. Perhaps it's my "Rocked" perspective on helping him with his emotional needs.

I still disagree with talking to the OW. They are not worth your time nor your comments about them (I can understand how angry you are). Don't keep these OW in your relationship with your H and yourself as I feel it will eventually cause a wedge. If you happen to run into her (with your car, ha!) like 2 must do next week, just smile and be civil, no more. Don't give her an ounce of your power.

2-I will reread your email in the am and give you some thoughts. Hope you felt better as your day progressed. A birthday party for your 4 yr old, how lovely. I hope she felt special (4 was one of my favorite ages with my daughter).

We took a Harley poker run with some of the fire guys for most of today. It was extremely cold and I needed to take a hot bath when we arrived home just to get to room temperature. All in all just a plain nice day.

Well, off to read. H watching football with a bowl of popcorn.

Hey Guys! Party went well, but for a moment I almost lost it. I left the party to head into the dining room to get the cake and ALL of a sudden I realized that I almost lost all this. I almost lost birthday parties in my house with my FAMILY in tack. Both parents celebrating their child's birthday. I almost lost it all...for what? It hit me sooooo hard I felt like I was going to literally fall over. I felt myself "catch" myself and say "Keep it together...you have a house full of people." So I put on a happy face and went about the day. In about 1/2 hour the feeling past. It was awful though. I hadn't had a moment like that since Christmas Eve.

Anyway, Holiday, I agree with you about the OW, I really do. I have decided that OW1 will not get anything from me. She will get a greeting like everyone else when I see her, but that is it. She will NOT EVER think she has power over me to upset me, hurt me or even to keep me away from my husband's job. I have just as much right as she does to be there...so I will be. She will NOT make me stay away. As a matter of fact, I think I will show my smiling face around there more than I used to. I have nothing to be ashamed of, because I've done nothing wrong. I want her to know she did not get my husband, did not ruin my life and did not keep me away. I'm looking forward to seeing her next week, and FINALLY getting that out of the way.

I have nothing else to say to OW2 either. I am very glad I called her and very glad that my discussion with her helped me to trust my husband more since their stories where in sync. It did me a lot of good to be able to verify the truth. It is helping me to move forward. True if it will help you, then call her. But DO NOT CALL if you can't keep your composure. Again, remember what Holiday said don't give her that power. If you can be polite (So she really realizes how little she has affected you) then do it.

In the whole scheme of things, the OW really haven't affected our lives. It was our spouse's unfaithfulness that affected our lives. If my h had slept with a different woman, it wouldn't be her any more that it is this girl...it is the situation. Does that make sense? They really do not have any power over us...or our spouses anymore right? They choose us.

True, keep that dress. Don't be ridiculous. On the day you wore it, that man loved you and pledged his life to you (still is with you right). It is NOT a lie. You know who you married, you just didn't know who he'd become. But you love him, that memory and that dress. Keep it!

Anyway chat tomorrow!

HI!!!! DogMom here in the house! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I wasn't here yesterday- H and I went on a small day trip. It went great- and ended better- my "dry spell" is OVER!!! YEAH!!! My H went to a fishing expo and I went to a REALLY cool mall- the mall had a Fredrick's of Hollywood!!!! So all of you are adults... just use your imaginations!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> So I had a GREAT day!! I will not share details- I'm not a kiss and tell kind of girl... but it was very strange as we layed in each other's arms- I thought I would be the mushy one- and it was HIM. He seems now to be somewhat in the place I wanted him to be- bonded emotionally. So... I obviously will keep you all informed how we are doing.

How is everyone????? True- I will get back with you via email. Where is everyone?????? I miss all of you!

Hey Everyone,
Just jumped online to read up on your posts. Will reply tomorrow. DogMom...CONGRATS! Now start a new string. 2...I bet you're a GREAT Mom. Your kids are blessed to have you. True, keep the dress. It might serve as a reminder to your H as to his original vow and the beauty he married those years ago. Holiday...Harley ride and hot bath? You're cool! Very wise in al lyou post too. Thanks.

Over and out!