I'm not sure where to turn right now. There are signs of an affair, recent e-mails from an ex (actually a girl he cheat on me with when we were dating), his cell phone has calls to a bunch of numbers that only show as another cell phone, lies about where money has gone etc. I just don't know how far to go to find out and if I am really ready to. We have 3 small kids, been married 4 years, together 8, known each other for 12. I have a medical condition that make sex very painful, so for the past 2 years that part of our lives has been on hold. With the absense of sex went the emotional and physical part of our relationship. My question is, how far do you go to find out? I've checked his e-mails and cell phone, but I feel like I am betraying him at the same time. I'm afraid to bring it up to him because if he is not doing anything I don't want him to think I don't trust him. I'm not sure if it is my insecurities about my disease. I just don't know what to do, and I'm torturing myself.

Welcome to marriagebuilders. If all the signs are there, he is probably cheating. None of us thought our spouses would cheat.

I would keep checking it out.

Is there anything that can be done about your medical condition?

I'm not sure about my medical condition at this point. I had a hysterectomy in Aug, hoping that would solve things, but it didn't. My husband changed jobs without getting all the information on his benefits so we have been without health insurance for 3 months. Our health insurance should be available next week and I am seeking a new dr., a specialist. There is hope, there are still options available they are just going to take time.

What do I do now?? Do I sit and wait until actual proof is there, or do I question him now and risk being wrong? If he has gone as far as to cheat, he would never admit without knowing I was sure.

Keep reading and posting here. Especially read all about Plan A. That is the starting point. You may find out even if you do catch him that he will deny it. They usually do.

Hi Dove,

Do whatever it takes to find out the truth. Your man may confess when confronted. Mine did not. I called the number spoke to the girl (I knew her) and she told me everything. This was after my husband kept denying the obvious.

If he comes clean, find out what he wants to do? Does he want to work on the marriage? Is it because he wants sex? Find out his motive. It might help you greatly to know that he loves you and has made a terrible mistake. It happens.

I discovered a lot by checking his text messages online. With Nextel that can be done. You might want to see what is being said since the phone records don't reveal that.

I think you should confront him plain and simple. If you have a pastor or close Christian friend who can be present, that might be necessary. It depends on your strength.

If he is cheating, it is not the end of the world. It will feel like it for a few days. I am a stay at home mom with 2 kids 4 and 1 years. What was I going to do if he left me for her? He didn't, but if he would have, I now realize less than 2 months later I would make it. If he does decide tomorrow to go with her, I will make it...and so will you.

I will pray for you Dove. Please let us know what happens.

Hi Godhelpme2:

I'm in a very similar situation: emails that are very, very suggestive, IM chats that are inappropriate, and yet, I really have no 'tangible' proof, other than a gut instinct (after 17 years of marriage, you kow your spouse) and a total feeling that I am being swept away - a sense of loss and abandonment. Of course, this is my wife I am talking about - I am hubby, so there are differences between mine and Dawn's circumstances...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Do whatever it takes to find out the truth. Your man may confess when confronted. Mine did not. I called the number spoke to the girl (I knew her) and she told me everything. This was after my husband kept denying the obvious.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">HOW? How do I confront when all I have are emails that I 'stole' off her computer...? Isn't that dishonesty going to undermine the entire confrontation?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>If he comes clean, find out what he wants to do? Does he want to work on the marriage? Is it because he wants sex? Find out his motive. It might help you greatly to know that he loves you and has made a terrible mistake. It happens.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope so for both Dove and I. I feel for you, Dove. My thoughts are with you.

David

David and Dove, I feel for you really. David, TRUST ME your gut is telling you the truth. I started to ignore mine after he kept telling me he wasn't cheating. But looking back on it, I wish I would have trusted my gut earlier. That could have knocked off 6 months of the 1 year affair!

Anyway, you "stole" her e-mail. Can you steal from your wife? Isn't she supposed to NOT be keeping secrets? And trust me, she will use that..."How dare you check up on me? I can't believe you don't trust me!" That was my husband's first response. I told him flat out, "Your damn right I don't. And I see now I had every reason not to!" That shut him up pretty quick!

I called the OW because I knew her and I thought she might tell me everything. She did. It may not work in your case, but it is worth a try.

Confront the spouse first. Show them the proof. Do NOT accept lame answers. Tell them you plan on contacting the other person, your spouse may tell you then. I told my husband I was going to call her. He didn't believe me, but I did. So if they don't contact the person in front of you and end it, call the person, or e-mail in your case David.

I really am sorry for you guys. It is all still so fresh for me. TRUST ME if your gut tells you so, then it is true. Your love letter Dove and your e-mails David ARE PROOF. Like me, you are still trying to deny it, giving them the benefit of the doubt and not wanting to face the truth because it is SOOOOO painful.

You can get through it. Please know you are in my prayers and I will wait to hear from you.

Dove and David,
You HAVE to confront!! My wife had been using cell phone, email and AIM to communicate with the OM even 3 years after the PA ended. BTW, it ended only because we moved 100 miles away to another city for new job. If you don't get balls and confront your spouse then you in essence are saying your marriage is not worth fighting for. C'MON FIGHT LIKE MAD!!

I wrote this essay the other day when I was feeling really down, and I decided to show it to him. I thought this would be easier for me and then sit down and talk to him. Sorry, it's long.

It’s the beginning of a new year, so why does it feel like an end? As I watch my marriage slowly disintegrate before me I’m at a loss as to what to do to save it. Maybe if I could pinpoint when things started to fall apart I could identify the problem and find a way to fix it, but that is a man’s way of thinking; no feelings involved. Being newly menopausal, I have more feelings running through me than a prepubescent teenage. At 31 years old I don’t feel like I am ready to prematurely endure the plight of the middle aged woman.
I regret to admit that the falling of my marriage is in fact my fault. Though I accept responsibility, the majority of it is out of my control. Having a medical disorder that prohibits me from performing my wifely duties should be enough to satisfy a guilty conscience, but having an incurable disease that no one has heard of is liable to put the guilt back on the ailing party. Had I been able to tell people, including the love of my life, that I had a disease as celebrated as Cancer maybe their clarity of understanding would subside some of the guilt. When the medical community understands less about a disease than the patients who suffer with it, it is hard to explain the suffering to a third party and even harder to convince them that there will some day be an end to the unintentional abstinence. I just hope and pray the end comes before the end of a much treasured marriage.
As the days go on I notice less physical contact, that kiss goodbye has been replaced by a courteous wave, the sound of laughter has been substituted by begrudging silence, and the spot on the couch next to me grows colder. It’s as if the minimal brush of a hand would incite a fury of hormonal rage, better to steer clear and play it safe. Even though the animalist part of the sexual encounter is unobtainable at this time, does the emotional and caring element have to vanish too? Now this is where I acknowledge the fault that is in my control. Is it fair for me to expect an emotionally fulfilling and passionate relationship without fulfilling his need for the animalistic? I too long for the days of unbridled passion; spontaneous, raw, sweaty SEX….unemotional SEX. It is selfish of me to not put my feelings aside and indulge in his manly needs, but how many nights can you soak the pillow with regret? So the question stands, is it the absence of sexual intercourse or the starvation of emotional need that leads to a failing marriage? This question being stated, another arises; to comprise a healthy marriage can you have one without the other and satisfy the needs of both parties’?
As I stay up late at night contemplating these thoughts, my migraines are getting worse and lack of sleep is feeding the black void that seems to be engulfing my life. I fear that I’m spiraling into depression, but how much sickness can a person have before the people around them start to check out? In a dream I watched him walking away, leaving me in the darkness. No matter how loud I yelled to him, he just kept walking. As hard as I try, I can’t imagine a life without him in it. As the reality of failure is frighteningly foreseeable, a future without him is not.

Every day there are reminders that I am being replaced, they come in the form of magazines and videos carelessly stashed under dressers, under the bed, and from time to time blatantly out in the open; as if unseemingly intentional to let me know there are needs not being met. Minor betrayals threaten larger ones on the way, how long will it be before the pages become physical entities? I’ve always known that the heart can lie, but never truly learned to distinguish between the heart and mind.
So now I’m left to make the decision to sit back and watch my marriage slip away only to spend the rest of my life living in the shadow of my guilt, or put my feelings, my marriage, my life on the line and find a way to fix it. I long for the days when the magazines are outdated and in my dreams he is walking toward me in the light and my yells become whispers. When the words “I love you” are more than mere utterances and actions speak volumes.

After he read it, he cried. He said he had no idea that I was feeling this way or that I was in so much pain. We had a really good heart to heart. I started off telling him that it wasn't that I didn't trust him, but that I was feeling insecure, that way he wouldn't become defensive. I know I may seem naive, be at the end of the conversation, I am convinced he is not cheating on me. He said that he uses the magazines and videos less than I would think, but they are his way of dealing until things get better and that it would never occur to him to stray. He refferenced a couple that we know that had been together for 14 years and she cheated on him and then left him for the other guy. My husband told me that he saw first hand what that did to his friend and he couldn't imagine putting me through that unless he really hated me and was trying to hurt me.

Godhelpme2 and Believer, I'm so sorry for every thing he have been through and continue to go through. But I don't belive that if you think it's true it must be. A lot of times miscommunication can make our minds think all kinds of things. What is not said is usually more painful than what is said. I hope and pray you are able to move on from this and have a more positive relationship either with the person your with or in the next.

David, I agree that you have to confront her. If there are things that are making you uncomfortable that in itself needs to be dealt with. The hard part is finding a way to confront her without putting her on the defensive. If she feels like she's being attacked then you are not going to get a straight answer from her. These things are so delicate and scary. If she's cheating, you have a betrayal to deal with, if not than you have a trust issue to deal with. Either way your marriage needs help. I hope things go well for you and you find the answers you are looking for. Let us know how things go.

Always,
~Dove~

This is what I did.

Looked in every hiding place in the house for proof. Set up a caller id box in another room and hid it. Placed voice activated recorders in areas of the house where he was most likely to talk to her using his cell phone. I acquired one year worth of cell phone records to document every time the calls were made. I checked the cell phone history everyday and documented every number coming in and going out and the times they were made so I could compare with cell phone bill and how long the conversations were lasting so he could not say it was a wrong number. I checked for voice mail early every morning and late every night.

Make sure you keep a diary of everything you find that is even the least bit suspicious because you will not remember in a week what you found today.

Hi Dove,

I am glad to hear that you are confident that your husband isn't cheating. I was too. The first time I asked him, my husband calmed my fears and I felt better about our marriage for about 3 months. The reason I say this is because if the signs are there, the signs are there. If money is missing, you have to find out why. DO NOT just accept his answer about anything...make him prove it. If he can't (or won't) there is a reason.

I would not stop here regardless of how you FEEL today. Continue to make sure signs are present. What is up with ALL those calls to another number? Did you ask him specifically about that? Can he prove it to you? Is he willing?

I hope you are right. I hoped I was right. Proceed with caution and good luck.

Hello, Dove.

My H had an A 3 1/2 yrs ago. Never admitted it . . . to this day. Don't get me wrong, he is a very good man . . . I believe that's how it got started.

There was this woman at his work that was having marital problems. He knew both of them. Actually he was working directly with the husband and then he met the wife --- handed the wife his business card and said if you need anything . . .

Well, as weeks went by this wife was calling my H almost everyday . . . crying and what have you. I was getting a little irritated but I felt bad. After all, he was just helping her out right? The last straw was when we went out of town and this woman keeps calling my H 4-10x a day. I told my H to tell her this is his family time and to quit calling. He did and she stopped . . . or so I thought! I later found out that she still called just in the middle of the night and my H was sneaking out the hotel room and I never noticed it. Long story short . . . I later found a love note on one of my H's pant's pocket.

There was also a new phone number that kept popping on his cellphone bill but they were one minute calls so I didn't bother . . . just to find out later that was her number and she was calling him back at his work phone. I finally called the number and spoke to her. She said nothing was going on. She apologized about the love note and said he has been so good to her she felt that way towards him then. She is now going through divorce and I don't have anything to worry about!!! What a big lie!!!

These lies went on for a good six months. He told me he was sorry and that nothing went on between them and he wants to keep the marriage . . . all that good stuff! For the meantime, they were still in contact just this time more discreetly until one final mistake she made. She left him a voicemail at 5 am that says "where are you, I've been waiting . . ." They were supposed to meet that morning and my H woke up late. I checked his VM and heard the message. I woke him up and told him to pack up and leave! I went straight to my lawyer and have him draw the divorce papers. My H said that I am mistaken. That he now has to work with her and they have a "mission" to go to. I said "F*&^ you and her." Go to your mission and leave me and the kids alone!

Really, all the signs were there . . . the phone calls, the emails, the 24-hour gym visits, the late nights coming home, the "out of town" meetings/conference and I ignored all of them. He was very reassuring everytime I confronted him and I bought it every time!!! Listen to your gut --- follow your instinct before it's too late.

It's been a long road to our recovery . . . 3 1/2 years and I still feel uncomfortable at times. We're still together and he has shown no signs of infidelity. I have forgiven him . . . but it is very hard to forget. After all, we have been married 23 1/2 years . . . I found out about his A a couple weeks before our 20th anniversary.

Good luck to you!

~GeminiGemini~

I need to apologize to all of you. I am the idiot. I found this e-mail today:

Hey Sweetie, Ok, here she is...for some reason it wont let me send all of them at once, so if u want to see the others I can send them on by one. But let me know u did get this one. Shawn asked me a good question, do u like thick women? I told him I wasnt sure, cuz I told him when u and I were doing our thing I was smaller than I am now,so I wasnt sure. She is tall, 5'7 but not too bad...yes I know smart a$$ to me that a big difference.. HAhaha..whatever So get back to me.

This is from a female friend and ex-girlfriend of his. This came along with nude photos of this woman. I feel stupid and sick to my stomach. I don't know what to do, what i want to do. I am going to talk to him about this tonight, but I'm sure I'll get a lot of explainations that I am going to want to believe. I don't even want to be alive right now. I have all these medical issues to deal with and now this, I'm going to have a break down. I can't financially support myself right now, but I don't know if I can stand having him around me either. God, this has to be a bad dream!! Wake me up!!!

Oh Dove! My heart aches for you. I wish I could be there to comfort you. Really! I know how awful you feel...trust me, we all do. I am soooooooo sorry.

You are NOT an idiot for believing your husband. He took advantage of the faith you placed in him. That makes him wrong...not you.

I have to run out to lunch with my husband where I will see the OW for the first time since I've found out. Long story. Will share when I return. I had to let you know that I will pray for you all day today.

Please share your thoughts with us here. We are here to help you. Stay strong. You, like us, will get through this.

Blessings

Thank you so much! My, your meeting can't be something you are looking forward to. I will be thinking of you too! Let me know how it goes, and good luck.

Dove

Hi Dove,

It went. I cried when I got to my car.

Anyway, how are you holding up? I remember my D-day. Have you talked to him about it yet? What are your plans? You need to think about that right now. Will you ask him to leave? End the relationship? Go to counseling? Get together a game plan. Let me know.

I'm so sorry it was hard for you. What are you planning to do? Is he still with her?

After I posted here, I answered the e-mail as him to see what she'd say. She wrote back confused and said that the picture was of a girl that she was interesting in to be with her and her husband and that if he was having doubts about our relationship that he better deal with it.
I'm still not sure what to do with this. It really seemed like she thought she was talking to him and she replied to quickly to have called him first. I told her it was me and what I was feeling. She assured me that he loved me and that nothing was going on...... My first instinct was to believe her and feel bad about what I was thinking. My husband came home and we were intimate and had a really nice night together. After he fell asleep I kept replaying the e-mail in my head the the line "Shawn asked me a good question, do u like thick women?" Why would she ask him this if this girl was for her? I started thinking, maybe the girl was for them and my husband was suppose to take part in it, and something in what I wrote tipped her off that it wasn't him writting. I don't know right now, but I'm not ready to confront him until I know a little more. So I'll be checking his e-mail and cell phone. He left his work cell at work yesterday (which he usually does), I want to check to see if she called him around the time we were e-mailing. If she did then I'm convinced.
Again, I'm very insecure about our sex life because I can't have it and haven't in a while. I don't know if I'm reading to much into things because of this or if these things are really obvious and I'm being naive. If he did cheat or does, I can't live with him. I'm not sure how I would survive (financially) but I would come up with a plan. I don't want to prematurely screw things up because I'm not sure. I don't know. What do you think?

Hi Dove,

Thinking about you a lot and praying for you. My heart aches for you...really.

My husband ended the A before I even found out. Because they still work together and I will probably see her soon at some events, I wanted to see her when I was prepared. So that is why I went yesterday. It was hard, but I am glad I did it.

Now onto you. I think you need to confront your husband once and for all. I don't think you should rely on an e-mail from someone else or even his behavior toward you to determine if he is being truthful and faithful. Let's face it Dove...there are ALOT of things that do NOT make sense and DO NOT add up. Don't dismiss it. EVERYTHING needs to be explained. If he can some how explain naked pictures on his e-mail, keeping it a secret from you and conversations with an ex, then good for him. I don't see how he can make sense of any of that.

I'd confront him armed with your information. That is what I did to my husband. He continued to deny it and I continued to look for proof, because I KNEW it was true. Finally I called the girl and she verified it all for me. At that point, he could do nothing but admit it. Keep looking for the answers, don't take his word for it. You deserve to know the truth.

I know it is painful, but so is living a lie. At least once you know the truth you can live accordingly. Accept it, work on the marriage, or end the marriage. Start thinking about that now! I knew I'd stay in the marriage once I found out, but I knew he'd have to end the relationship and restructure things at his job to not be around her. He did. So I can move forward.

I will be away all weekend. Please stay strong and I will check in with you when I return.

Hope I am not threadjacking!!

Hey 2-I found you here!! I was headed towards bed and thought I would check out MB. Why is it when things feel better...it doesn't always "feel" right?

Hi Dove-May I ask...when you say "no sex", do you mean absolutely "no sex"? And I agree with 2, if you feel it in your gut there's probably an A.

Holiday, feel free to jump in, the more the merrier! "No sex", I mean very rarely. We went 3 months of absolutely none and then 6 weeks to recover from surgery (hysterectomy) that was Aug 4th. Since then we try here and there to see if I can tolerate it. I now have Interstitial Cystitis which is a bladder disorder that causes VERY painful intercourse. I'm just wondering why your asking. I've had people tell me that I need to put my own needs aside and satisfy his anyway I can to make sure he doesn't stray. But what they don't understand is that it hurts me to become aroused. And it actually scares me to train myself not become aroused, I'm afraid that wouldn't come back. I've felt so guilty about all this that in passing thoughts I've thought about giving him permission to be with someone else until I got better, but we all know how well things like that go.

Godhelpme2, to clarify my situation, the ex that he is talking to is someone I've always known he talks to. I have no problem with them being friends, they used to fool around back before we dated, they never "dated" or had feeling beyond a friendship with fun. I'm not at all worried about her. She's married, but bi-sexual, so I know they bring other woman into their relationship. When I saw the e-mail she wrote, it sounded to me like she was trying to set him up with someone or inviting him to join them with this girl. The only concern I have with their relationship is that he talks to her a lot more than I was aware of. She call's him her best friend but I have never met her and he very rarely talks about her. She and I have been e-mailing back and forth for the past couple days and she was under the impression that I was completely aware of their friendship. She's as upset about as I am and she's planning on talking to him about why. The only thing I can think of is that he is worried if I know that I will try to stop him from being friends with her, or because he still has a need to keep a part of his old life to himself. He had a really hard time sharing every part of himself with me from the beginning, like he was loosing a part of himself.

Bottom line, I've come to the conclusion that he has not cheat on me. If I realistically think about it, he hasn't had a chance to. He works during the day, calls me at least 3 times during the day while he's working, then comes home around 3 or 4pm. He NEVER goes out at night without me. Now, whether he was planning on cheating on me, I'm not quite sure yet. If he was planning on cheating on me I think it's strictly for sex and not emotional reasons because of the problems we are having. So I am making a huge effort to be more sexual with him without hurting myself. I'm hoping if he was thinking about straying that this will stop that. I still plan to check e-mails (though now that his friend knows I check his e-mail I don't expect to find anything) and check his cell (which I don't think he would think I would do) and just keep a better awareness of where is he and if any thing seems suspicious I will question him until I get a satisfactory answer.

I know you're still thinking I'm naive, but I think you would need to know what we've been through the past couple years with my medical problems and really understand my guilt and insecurity to understand why I don't completely trust my own feelings. I will keep you updated, and continue to read. Well, I've already taken up to much space on this! Keep writing and let me know honestly what you think. Thank you very much!

Dove