I have read ALL the boards and have decided to inform HIS friends but NO family. My Mother is fighting cancer now and having chemo I CAN'T lay this bomb on them. They don't deserve this pain no matter how much I want my Mom's advice. I love them too much to hurt them that way. I have lots of good friends I have been talking to. I have also decided to tell the boyfriend too.

I asked him he has to end the contact IMMEDIATELY or I will have to take drastic measures. That I will NOT sit idly by while he continues to humiliate me further. He asked what I had planned and I told him. "you will soon find out","I'm helping things along" that is the only thing he has to work with. F him! Parties over I told him I believe if you don't like things the way they are then change it!

He is still cold and distant and gets annoyed when I mention her. I don't fight either I say it kind of emotionless. I stopped yelling and I decided taking some action is nesaccery. HE is not make ANY effort at all like he doesn't give a SH#$. Someone has to fight for this marriage I will get it going!

What do you think?

Since you ask what I think - I think that you are not following MB principles. As to what the outcome wil be, if I were a gambling man I would put money on that you will end up divorced. I think that fighting for your marriage demands a calm and deliberate plan that increases the chances of rebuilding your marriage. I think you are so angry that you can't see straight.

I understand the pain that you are going through. It 'seems' like the right thing to do to end your pain. But ask yourself this - do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

I agree with legato. Please read over Harley's stance on LoveBusters (LBs) BEFORE you do anything more. You can say things too him. It's how you say them will determine whether or not you end up drive him away or bringing him closer to you. If you want to save you marriage, you need to calm down. I know, easier said than done. But you need to take a couple of steps back and try to look at this rationally. If you come from a place of peace rather than anger, you may find that he wants to work with you. Yes you hurt. You are angry. All BSs here have felt how you feel at some point or other. What you need now is a plan. Try using Harley's Plan A. If that doesn't work, you may have to go to Plan B. Remember time is both your enemy and your friend now because you want this over as soon as possible. I understand. But give your marriage the time it needs because it's worth it in the long run.

GOD THIS IS DRIVING ME NUTS! I just called one of our friends that's it. I will hold off on the boyfriend for now. I just have the hardest time controling my outbursts. I guess I wrecked things huh? Patience has NEVER been my strong suit.

I promised I was going to do something drastic if he didn't end the contact immediately.

I guess that was not a smart move huh?
Can I fix this after I said that or am I F'ed now?

D
I can't help but agree with SAB and Legato.
Please be patient. Don't hold back your tears - cry as hard as you need to when you feel it is safe. Tears contain endorphins that actually calm you and make you feel better. When you hold it all in you run the risk of becoming very very angry. When you are that angry you may do things you will later regret.
You may face this terrible thing head on - but you may not get the results you desire.
Aug12th

No, I don't think you've wrecked things. This site has the information and the advice that you need to restore your marriage. Make use of this site to help you fight for your marriage.

I called him & sent text messages apologizing for my outburst and promise. I told him to give me SOME slack it is still new and I am trying hard to keep my anger in check because it is not going to help things.

I told him I would lay off and let him have his space to sort things out. It is just so hard to know how he feels because he doesn't show it. He doesn't even hint how he feels. My nature is to just fix it and I like instant gratification I want to see it NOW! I know that is NOT a good way to be in THIS situation. I just feel so hopeless sometimes and it gets the best of me like today.

Just to think I thought I had SOME handle on things...I guess not.

So you don't think I screwed up? I sure took deposites out of the LB. I told another friend of his and I did it too because HE has no one to talk to really. I think it would help him to talk to someone too. I know when I talk to someone I get a better understanding of things. I think by him not telling anyone is still hiding.

It looks to me like he is avoiding thinking about it if we don't discuss it. Do you know what I mean? Like if I don't say anything it never happened it will go away. You know?

Do you agree it is wise for me to look inward and work on my own issues of anger and impatience? Let this be for a while? Not turn a blind eye but stop obsessing like I have been.

What do you think?
Thanks in advance.

For now, just read and absorb. There are so many here that have been through this. It is completely normal for you to be angry; you have been wronged and your pain is overwhelming. It's just not productive to act upon that anger.

When you read the material here you will begin to understand what is involved in doing a good Plan A and then decide if you want to proceed along that path. It is very, very difficult to do.

Yes, I understand. WSs don't want to discuss it. At this point it's not really in your interest to try and force discussion. Later on, one of your conditions will be complete and total honesty regarding any questions that you have.

Don't try to make any sense of what he says or does. This is about addiction and must be dealt with as addiction. They have a very difficult time trying to let go of it even if they want to.

Hey destroyed,

I don't think the problem is whether or not you tell OW's BF, the problem is controlling your anger. First things first - can you find a 'safe' way to let out your anger and hurt, so that you are able to have a cool head?

Telling OW's BF shouldn't be for revenge or out of anger... if you do it, I think it will eventually help things, but ONLY if you can do it calmly!

If you can work on changing yourself for the better first, even if you do expose the A later, he will most likely eventually be able to see that your motive was not revenge on him, it was that you didn't want to violate your own integrity by helping him keep his hurtful secrets.

Harley says you should allways tell the other person's spouse, BF or GF, because affairs grow in secret. "Outing" an affair deprives it of a necessary ingredient for its survival.

Ok, I did speak to him last night calmly. I told him what I face everyday and I told him that telling the boyfriend is the biggest thing I am fighting. I told him that he has the right to know & by him not knowing she will not stop. He told me he made this mistake and HE has to handle it HIMSELF. It was nothing I did wrong & he works so much that he never has time to even step back and think about it.

I also said to him I have to talk about it I need to understand what YOU are going through too. I also said I don't want to fight with you I want to help you help yourself. I said because the key to any of this to even have a chance YOU have to cut the contact with her. Because if you don't the next step is seperation. If you were true about still loving me and wanting to work this out that should be at the top of the list. As of now they still talk or send messages. I told him he should have someone he could confide in to talk to.

I also said I would really work hard at not lashing out at him. Because I know that it won't solve anything and I would give him space. But I will keep checking the cell phone bills to see if the contact has stopped. I would also call to make sure he comes right home from work. He said that is what he has to consider if he can live with me going through this pain on a daily basis.
I seemed like he really does care about me still & that he knows what he did was wrong. And that he regrets hurting me. This is the confusing part for me though. I never knew him to be a spiteful person and don't want to believe that he wants to keep hurting me. Is it wrong for me to feel that way?

I mean how long should it take for him to sort his feelings out? Do I give him a month to make sure the relationship with her HAS ended? Giving him a deadline is like an Ultimatum and you know how those end up. I told him I can't wait forever for you to end things with her. I said I don't know how involved with her you really are but it is not right to string her along either. She may think the game is still on and think you are going to leave me for her. You should not give her false expectations. He told me that he told her he wants to work it out with me. Weither it's the truth or not I don't know. I said then why won't she back off it can't be easy with her always messinging you. I want to believe him in the worst way but if I do am I just opening myself up for another disapointment? All I have is his word which at this point is questionable.

So at this stage in the game I have to wait until he gets his sh%$ together. Any one have any suggestions tips, this is the hardest thing to ever go through I pray we make it. Do you think there is hope for us at this point?

I keep hearing posts of fight to save this marriage. Are you saving it because you made a commitment or because your spouse is your soulmate? What? I have never wanted to save my marriage and am trying to dig to find out why others go through so much to make it work.

Dear Destroyed,

Good for you! You are doing great. You confronted a some really important points and that was very hard.

You mentioned ultimatums (sp). The experts here say they do not work. And they are probably right per se. But, I think it's OK for you to make it clear that continued C isunacceptable, something completely wrong, and a complete roadblock to recovery. And it leads the OW on.

How long will it take for him to get over the A? How long did the A go on. Again, acc. to the experts, the longer the A, the longer the Withdrawal/Fog phase lasts. Some say 1 week for every month of the A. Keep up your support. Print off the articles here and give them to him. He has to understand that he is in the throes of an addiction. That is really hard to hear. It is very stigmatizing.

Keep monitoring the cell records. Can you monitor e-mail? There may be setbacks, breakdown in NC. It happened to me. In my case, there was continued phone & e-contact for 4 months. I finally asked for a NC letter. My H balked, didn't want to. I didn't make it a condition, or anything, just said it was really important to me, and pointed out that the OW needed to start getting over him, as well (she was M, for Pete's sake!). And she couldn't do that until NC was a reality. The next day he did it. That was almost 5 months ago. I still check (remember, this is an addiction), and I really believe NC is in place.

You are doing a great job. Your H is sick right now. Remember 'in sickness and in health'? Well, you know where you are right now. You don't need anyone to tell you. Your H is lucky to have you.

Blessings and good luck.

To ?????: Why do you think she is trying to save ger M? She loves her husband, HER HUSBAND.

If you're looking for a timeframe, there isn't one. Each person, couple and situation is different. I can tell you it won't be now. The general rule for recovery is about a month for each year of marriage. If you married "until death do you part", a few or several months doesn't seem long when compared to decades in the future. It's well worth the investment in time. If you haven't yet written a no-contact letter, here's an example that you can write together. When it's done, make sure that you are responsible for sending (with his agreement, of course). That way you have the assurance that it gets to its destination:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Any questions?

TO ????: If you have questions about the principles here, perhaps you should ask the moderators directly instead of taking of unneeded space on these boards. I'm sure they can tell all you need to know.

<small>[ January 20, 2005, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: SAB ]</small>

Afterall,

Thanks so much you really made me feel better. I did stress to him I wanted him to stop the contact immediately. I know it is hard for him to talk to me about but I told him I HAVE to talk to you about it so we can makes strides to get through it. Right now I just try to stop torturing myself by thinking about it over & over & over and going round & round and it keeps ending at the same place. Which is until he faces his issues and ENDS the contact we will be at a stand still like we are now.

I just don't know how long is long enough or acceptable to wait for him to end contact? It has been 9 days since he told me (DD 1-11) I logically would think that he would cut it off the next day. But he has not and me constantly pressuring him is not going to help me.

Another thing I am strugling with, do I remain the dutiful wife for him? Do I keep the "home fires burning" try to maintain a nice environment for him to WANT to keep coming home to? As far as sex goes do I continue to obstain? IF I don't have sex with him will he want to go to her? I mean how can I desire him after this? I still kiss him & hug him and show affection for him because I need to have it too. And I am trying to build the LB up like it says to. IS that the right thing to do? Is it like rewarding him for his behavior or should I be punishing him for it? I was also thinking of sending an anonomous note to the BF to make him aware because I really think he has no clue. I really think she is the one who won't lay off. He must be so involved emotionally with her that he doesn't know what to do. But since I did tell him I did intend to eventually tell the BF he will know it was me. But I wanted him to know it is looming and it WILL happen. I told him people at work are talking about it and they have a good hunch as to what is going on. I know that kills him he is reputation means a lot to him. I was hoping that, that alone would drive him to stop so people won't talk because he hates that. But I just don't know.

What things can I print out for him to read so he can understand what he is facing? I already think he read the Plan A/Plan B I left out all highlighted. Should I tell him my game plan? I already told him what I need to see happen first. I said the first step is the hardest but you must take it by ending it for us to survive this.

I guess that is ALL I can do...see back again to the same damn place. It just MAKES ME NUTS!

So this afterall is my daily nightmare of thoughts that go round & round & round.

Oh, and ????? I am not going to explain anything to you because you are of no help to me. I will not dignify your comments with an answer.

Oh forgot to add the length of the A. I noticed the calls and messages piling up since October when he got his promotion. The physical contact he said happened twice in December. So I have to say it got hot & heavy since October. But he never TOLD me how long it has been going on. I know he has worked with her the past year. I don't know if the pressure of work and home just got the best of him or what. He still can't figure out why he did it. I may really NEVER know why.

Like I said that is all he told me it could be more then that for all I know. I am trying to believe he is being honest with me and NOT lying because if I don't how far am I going to get?

Dear D -

You are not going to be a 'dutiful' wife, at all. You are going to be a beatiful, fun, loving W. You are going to be the W he married. That is what Plan A is about. I don't know about you - how many kids, how long you've been M. Put those details out here. But, I will tell you that a lot of BW/BHs here kind of 'let themselves go' just a little. I sm not saying I gained 100 pounds or anything, but after 3 kids, and 20 yrs later, umm..., I think you can fill in the blanks.

So...Plan A is all about you. You are going to take care of you, so your H will see what he has, what he stands to lose, etc.

Here was my game plan, I would recommend it. It has worked well:

(1) If you're not exercising now, start. Get that good haircut/manicure/pedicure/exercise/nutrition plan going.
(2) Put great dinners on the table every night.
(3) and ...the sexual satisfaction issue. Yes, yes, yes! First, because you need SF, too. But, also, b/c SF is like glue. It is the glue that holds you two together. Also, you need to 'reclaim' him as yours sexually. So...throw out the boring PJs, and buy some really sexy things! Invest in yourself. Make this nice for you, too. You deserve it.

Good luck, blessings!

PS: This sounds corny, but I will always believe it was a really important part of our healing: Pray. And, pray with your H. Even if you never did that before, try it. I wanted to do this. I told my H, saying I wanted us to pray together. He was deep in the fog. He said I could pray and he would listen. I simply prayed, out loud, "Dear God, Please watch over H & me. Please guide us back to each other. Help us because we can't do it alone. Amen."

This was a turning point. I did it again the next night. He said 'Amen' at the end of my prayer. The next night he reminded me to pray. Weeks later he told me that was the point at which he started to get over the A feelings. Try it.

just don't know how long is long enough or acceptable to wait for him to end contact?

If you wait for him, he will drag it on indefinitely. It's called fence-sitting or having his cake and eating it too. Tell him you need an agreement from him for a written no contact letter now. If not, then you need to protect yourself and your love for him by giving him a Plan B letter which states that as long as the A continues, you will have no longer have any contact with him. Just be careful that you don't make this a do-it-or else scenario. Keep it to what you need from him to work on your marriage together. If he unwilling, then remove yourself from the situation. Then, be good to yourself while you let her then try to meet all of his ENs. Chances are that without you, he will find what he's missing and be ready to commit to recovery.

I am 34 years old we have been married for 8 years come September & we have known each other for 10 years. We have one son who is 10 months old and the best boy EVER!

I am NOT in good shape I am fat what can I say? I have been excersising anyway and my plan for this year was to improve my health. I don't dress up or wear any make-up because I am home with my baby all day and if he only sees me for a couple of hours when he gets home then what's the point? I have not really eaten anything so that is a start too. I thought too that it would be a good idea to stop feeling sorry for myself and get myself together. Make his home worth coming to.

So today I will clean the bathroom and make a nice dinner as you suggested. As far as HER for competition I think the luster has gone from their relationship. Because the secret made it fun and now everyone knows so the fun is gone. Besides I have known him longer and I know him better! Sex is not all there is and I can am sure she can't know everything about him like I do. I have 10 years on her and she is not half the woman I am! I also need my confidance back I have been depressed that I am so overweight so I started excersising.

So I guess I will put a smile on my face and hope in my heart and continue to live and improve myself, so he can remember the love we have & want to keep it.

SAB

I thought if I gave him a deadline to end contact with her that would be an ultimatum and they don't work. I was going to give it until maybe the 29th before I stepped in. I thought I was supposed to take the high road and give him space? Or is the space I am giving that he wants like saying ok keep going? If that is the message I am sending then that is not good. It is impossible for that commitment letter NOT to be an ultimatum.

Ok I have written a plan A committment letter let me know if it is good or not please?

Dear H,

I want you and I to come to a mutual understanding of what needs to be done for us to over come this.

I know you made a mistake and I know you must be emotionally involved that it has been difficult for you to stop all contact.

I have decided it is in our best interests to be open and honest with each other no matter how painful it may be. No more lies and no more secrets.

So I think we need to make a deadline for contact with OW to end totally and completely. I don’t want this affair to continue indefinitely because you can not have things both ways. I am going to give you until January 29th 2005 to end your contact and relations with OW. Then I want to make and appointment with a Marriage counselor and I would like you to spend more time at home with Bobby and I.

I know I sound like I am being unreasonable and it seems like an ultimatum.
It is not I assure you it is the first step in a plan to salvage our marriage. I know this is difficult for you but it has to be done for us to move forward.

If you are not willing to at least do this for the sake of saving our marriage I intend to call OW boyfriend and tell him about the entire affair. You have to compromise and meet me half way for this to work. We can’t do this by ourselves it is a joint venture.

I know that you are aware that it is totally unacceptable to continue contacting her while we try to reconcile. It can’t happen if the contact does not stop.

Then lines for signatures and dates underneath. I of course left out the names here for obvious reasons.