We've been married 10 years. If you asked me yesterday I'd tell you we had a very good marriage - lots of love, respect, care, concern although the sex life, admittedly, has been troubled of late. We have three great kids. Last one (1yr old) has a chronic and serious health condition so the past year has been stressful - lots of appts, therapies, tests, surgery, etc. I was pretty depressed in the beginning and now the fatigue and stress has taken its toll on me to with an auto-immune condition that leaves me in chronic pain each day. I'm only 36. I know the sex has been lacking this year, and even a bit since the birth of our other kids, but, this year it is honestly just not a priority w/ the health issues and now the pain thing. ANYWAY.... my husband came home from work today early but had to take some calls in his office before the end of the day. We had a sitter in the house today w/ my 3 yr old and 1 yr old and I was driving our eldest here and there. I came home and wanted to ask my husband something - I forget what - and I actually catch him at the computer with his pants undone frantically closing down what was the playboy internet site. I was sick to my stomach and I was actually shaking like a leaf for about an hour. I feel so betrayed - like he was cheating. And WHAT WAS HE THINKING with our kids in the house not to mention the babysitter? It doesn't sound like it but he's a real smart, conservative, educated, straight-laced, professional and seemingly normal person. Now I feel like I don't even know whom I married! He knew YEARS ago how I feel about porn ( I was very clear about it in my 'post-college feminist days') and we have both in the past put down other husbands we've heard of getting playboy, etc. He swears it's just been a few times and that he was stupid and disrespectful and that he's never ever cheated. I'm so hurt right now I just want to run away or have him do so. One small part of my brain keeps saying 'this is not the stuff to end a marriage over.' But I've lost respect for him. How do I stay happily married to someone that I've lost respect for?
He's been EXTREMELY remorseful and embarrassed and humiliated and apologetic. I believe him. I'm afraid to believe him about the faithfulness but I do.

How do I get over this? What do I do? Please help. I'm too embarrassed to turn to anyone I know.

092798

well I think hes probably telling the truth. If hes not on a chat line or Instant messaging -IM - anyone, we call that an emotional affair here if such contact is inappropriate, then its likely hes been looking at porn...........most likely relieveing his sexual frustrations in the wrong way.

He SHOULD be talking to you explaining his feelings so BOTH of you can work on a solution...though you will be surprised perhaps to hear how reluctant couples - married couples at that - are to talk about this subject with each other. I think it was one issue that led me to think it was ok to cheat, my failure to discuss my needs and my H needs........... just so you know, there are NO excuses. If there is cheating its HIS problem NOT yours.
But as I said, from what you have written it does not seem so on the surface.
But encourage him to talk to you, no matter what he says or hurtful it may feel it will be helpful in knowing what to fight and if you can activily do it together.

However to put your mind at rest, one way or the other, ask for all his passwords and userid's for ANY site hes visited, from Yahoo on. If its really causing you a problem you can get a logging software and install it on the PC and then have a record of all he types on the PC.

Secondly, its a big red flag. Porn may lead to him cheating or being simply obsessed with it to the detriment of the family & your M.
Look at this as a early warnng and act on it.
If you think you both need some marriage coaching or counselling - they are different - then please look at it.

You can read about this on this site by the shortcuts here

Basic Concepts
A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts,

click on the left hand side of the above page, the first one, to see some common issues and what you can do about them together.
One important thing is to set aside some time just for the two of you each day... not just in the bedroom.. perhaps 15 to 30 mins just for you two. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Being ill as well will not help, so maybe it can start off with simply holding hands and talking about the both of you, maybe a few cuddles, NEVER underestimate those, even with men!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Of course if it leads to other things thats yor business isnt it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Truly I do understand how the kids, the day to day mess of just living, working, illness of your child and you can just take over and before you know it, you have not made love, shared confidences, feelings etc with your H for SOOO long and it seems hes more a room mate then mate.
I bet hes feeling much the same and probably ashamed as well. You'll need to help him through that as well as having him recognise it was the wrong way to go. Sounds like he has got that though.

Forgiveness you will find is so important. He must have it to move on with you and you must be able to give it to move with him. He must forgive himself too.
I understnad this very much because I have not been able to yet.

So read what you can, dont think its all rosey now you have busted his secret, this WAS a big red flag, and talk, talk talk as well as show affecton and love.

If later investigations or admissions show a worse situation then remember there is a plan here for that too. And lots of good solid advice.

I am sorry to see you find yourself here but hopefully it was only a big red flag and you'll come back and report a great improvement...we LOVE to hear of success it gives us all hope.

But remember we are here for you to vent, cry, yell scream whatever, we've been there, so start of reading then sit down with H and do the emotional needs questionnaire, again on the shortcuts above, and talk with him. It'll be hard too start but you can do this!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

lets us know how you are going....all the best

092798,

I have a few things I would like to say. The first is calm down. He has NOT betrayed you. I understand your concern but let's examine what you have said, and thought. First, if you read the articles on this site, you will see that Harley is big on meeting EMOTIONAL needs. Guess what one of those are: yup, sexual fulfillment. And guess who usually has that high on their list, yup guys. And guess who will have it high very high on their list, men who are not having sex with their W.

He was masturbating and while you might not approve, there are alternatives to this that would destroy your marriage, your health, your life as well as his. So let's get some perspective her. OK?

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was sick to my stomach and I was actually shaking like a leaf for about an hour. I feel so betrayed - like he was cheating.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why? Let's really think about this Why do you feel betrayed? You know he has a sex drive. You know you don't feel like having sex now. Apparently, he will not force you to have sex with him, which is good. And just as apparently, his sexual needs are NOT a high concern of yours.

So given that you don't care about his needs in this area, why are you "betrayed" by him doing this rather than having an affair, or seeking prostitutes? He does not have to become a ennuch does he?

I am serious you really need to think about this carefully. Further you and he need to talk as adults that care and love one another. I don't the conversation so far have been in this direction. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And WHAT WAS HE THINKING with our kids in the house not to mention the babysitter?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good question, but was there a better time?? You might discuss this with him.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It doesn't sound like it but he's a real smart, conservative, educated, straight-laced, professional and seemingly normal person.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let's consider "normal" for a moment. I don't know where you live but where I live sex is on tv all of the time. All ads use sex to sell things. There are images of women in all sorts of underdress just about everywhere one looks. So if he is NORMAL, this will affect him. If he was unnormal,it would not. So let's recalibrate this a bit shall we.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Now I feel like I don't even know whom I married!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Permit me to introduce you to your Husband. He is a male, he has a sex drive, and he is who he has always been. You two did not get three kids from a ceral box. So calm down here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He knew YEARS ago how I feel about porn ( I was very clear about it in my 'post-college feminist days') and we have both in the past put down other husbands we've heard of getting playboy, etc. He swears it's just been a few times and that he was stupid and disrespectful and that he's never ever cheated.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So YOU get to set the way it is in YOUR household. Do you realize how disrespectful that is? Whatever you two decide in your marriage should be decide with joint agreement and it sounds as if there has been little discussion about this and surely no agreement, as is clearly indicated by his actions, and your statements.

You two really need to talk. You need to discuss his sex drive, how it should be addressed, when it should be addressed, are you going to participate in addressing it, or is he going to have to hide from you and continue to sneak around as if avoiding his Mom. I am really serious here. There are two policies that are sort of the bedrock of this site. ONe is the policy of "radical honesty". You should read the articles on this as should your H. The other one is the Policy of Joint Agreement, POJA. You both should read this as well. IF these two policies had been part of your marriage this would not have occured.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm so hurt right now I just want to run away or have him do so. One small part of my brain keeps saying 'this is not the stuff to end a marriage over.' </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And that small part would be right. Listen to it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But I've lost respect for him. How do I stay happily married to someone that I've lost respect for?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have lost respect for him because he has a sex drive. He was not out molesting women and children. He was not out having an affair, or hiring a prostitute. He was relieving sexual frustration. Could he have been more discrete? Yes. But you could have been more involved in this marriage as well and you were not.

You should NOT disrespect him because he has a sex drive and you do not. That is plain wrong.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He's been EXTREMELY remorseful and embarrassed and humiliated and apologetic. I believe him. I'm afraid to believe him about the faithfulness but I do.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hello, looking at a Playboy is NOT being unfaithful. You want to see unfaithful? Read the stories on this site. You should hit your knees and thank your God, that you have not had to endure what many people on this site have endured. You have NO CLUE.

I am sure he is humiliated and I am sure you are seeing to it that he is,but you are NOT addressing the issues here, you are just acting out. If you are serious about having a good and happy marriage you two need to talk and reach some agreements so that he is NOT reduced to masturbating to a computer.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do I get over this? What do I do? Please help.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I my humble opinion, you start off by apologizing to him. You know he is sorry...that he did it when he did and got caught. I doubt he is sorry he has a sex drive. Next you sit down and talk about sex, and specifically how to meet each others needs in this matter. He correctly figured out that you don't care or need sex so he has apparently not bothered for it. You on the other had failed to consider him in your focus on life and your children.

I will tell you this. If you read the articles here, and books on marriage, the best way to take care of your children is to take care of your marriage. And you admit that has not been a focus of yours. You are worrying about his sexual habits, when you should be worrying about the marriage. So if you want to understand things better, learn about what makes a good marriage, how the two of you need to address each others needs. How "radical honesty" and the policy of joint agreement will help you negotiate win-win situations for you both.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm too embarrassed to turn to anyone I know </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, not only should you be too embarrassed to turn to anyone, you should NOT turn to anyone. You should turn to your H and discuss this like adults and decide on what will address this issue and how to make the marriage such that these are done at a time and place that meets both of your approval.

I have to marvel that you would not think he masturbated when you have not had sex much if at all in over a year. What I worry about more is that if you are not meeting his emotional needs you may one day find him gone. This is about more than sex. It is about saving a marriage and making it better than it has before.

Please do some reading here. Read some of the threads and look at what people here are dealing with, and then thank your stars that you are not.

I realize you have health issues, and I realize rearing three children is a hard time consuming job. But, you two can do better. What has happened can be considered a little wake up call to both of you. Use it wisely and you both will be the happier for it.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ January 28, 2005, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

Thank you Aussieswife for your quick reply. I definitely felt a little better after reading it and it helped me calm down a bit. Honestly, I just never expected such a shock. I will certainly do more reading from those links you provided.

JL - I hear what you're saying about fulfillment and I understand that. But I must say I feel your reply was quite harsh - especially since you know so little about me, my husband, our conversations - past and present - and the 10+ years we have together. And what it's like to have a child almost 'not make it' three times in a year. Definitely kills the sex drive, know what I mean? Anyway, I don't know your story but I wish you the best too.

There is a lot of good information on this site and I just found it tonight. I appreciate the insight of others, especially, since as I noted in my original post - I really don't know where else to turn.

Thank you all.

092798
I tend to agree with previous posters.
You need to work through this as a couple and understand\fulfill each others needs and desires.
Not doing so will alienate you from your husband. He may not have a desire for another woman to satisfy his sexual desire at the moment but that could easily change if he happens to meet someone who captures his attention at the wrong moment. In other words he is becoming vulnerable!
JL may of been a bit harsh with you but had your best interest at heart! Not looking at this symptom through your spouse eyes instead of yours could be the biggest mistake of your life.
Use this event as a Red Flag, a Wake up call to correct what could be some critical needs within your marriage. A good place to start is not brow beating your husband for his actions and turning that energy your using toward understanding the cause of his action and somehow meeting his needs.

SM

092798,

I was harsh with you...well actually I was not harsh, but I was frank. That was the intention. You are treading in a minefield here and I really want you to "freeze" and think about this before you do something that will harm you family and that includes you.

You are right I only know what you have posted. So if you would like to further enlighten us it would really help. Especially, since I have posted. It is important to this dialogue that you point out where you feel I was wrong or made the wrong assumption. Don't worry it is fine to do that, this is a feedback system.

My point remains; you and your H are on the verge of something and it can either hurt your marriage or it can open it up so that the both of you are far more comfortable and supportive of one another. You two will have to make that choice, but it requires perspective on the significance of the events not only in your eyes but his.

I am sure he is mortified that you caught him. And I am sure at this point he is putty in your hands with respect to doing what you want to make you happy. But I am also sure that if you over play the upper hand you have, it will hurt your marriage.

Just some thoughts. I look forward to hearing from you.

God Bless,

JL

Maybe I'm way out there...but what is wrong with masturbation? I come from a place where that is a normal and acceptable part of life. People shouldn't be made to feel ashamed of it but it also should be done in private. I don't think that he should have been doing that sort of thing during that inappropriate time. His children could very well have walked in on him.
Sure it doesn't do much for your pride when you walk in on your H while he's on the computer. My H and I have a no porn agreement for the computer, as I don't want to worry about my nine year old daughter finding it.
I don't think JL was being harsh. I agree with most everything in the post.
Definitely talk and be open with each other about the whole situation including the past year and hard times. Don't make him feel ashamed about it.

He has not betrayed you. He was satifying a normal male sex drive in a harmless manner. You need to settle down and understand that if anything given your problems he is being extremely faithful. I wish my WW would have rented an adult video.

I agree with meljel. It's VERY normal, and I think it may have saved my marraige from an A for many years prior to the actual A. Although, I wonder if the porn helped fuel my H desire for another woman. He says it actually calmed it down, cut he DID eventually have an affair, so......
One other thought, if you don't feel like sex, and he wants to masturbate, let him. Sit there and hold him and kiss him or tell him sexy things. I thought I couldn't handle this myself, but it a part of my H's and my Radical Honesty. That way he has NO secrets from me. Not even masturbation.
Good luck, and yes, thank your lucky stars that it was just porn and NOT the babysitter you found him with! Or anyone else for that matter!

I agree that it is a red flag.... many times these things escalate. The good news is, that means you have a chance to do something about it.

And I also agree that part of that is that he isn't getting his need for SF fulfilled. Now I'm not picking on you for that, and I can understand very well what you say about the problems with your child's health killing your drive.

But here's something else to consider.... is maybe the lack of SF not as much a result of your child's illness as it is a symptom of something else? How well are the two of you handling these problems TOGETHER? How well do you talk about it? Not just the day-to-day business of getting through it, getting your child taken care of, etc., but the realities of it all. Your fears, your frustrations, your sadness.

The thing is - it sounds like you need comforting. Both of you. And just speaking for myself, I know that yes, all that upset, if I was holding it in and keeping a brave face and all, probably would kill any desire for SF. But if I felt comforted, felt that I could share those feelings with H and that he understood... SF might even be a natural outcome of that attempt to comfort each other.

This is all my opinion... and I fully admit, not having kids myself, maybe there's an aspect to it I'm missing here. But everything I've ever heard, and the way I feel myself, says that SF is a way people often deal with grief, esp. death. Even though, fortunately, your child hasn't died, you have obviously been facing that possibility. That may, for your H, make his need for SF even stronger. And I think it could help you too, if the way you get there is through that mutual comforting.

Have you discussed any of this, and how afraid you are, and just sat and held each other and grieved over this?

I know exactly what you are going through because I have been going through the same thing myself for sometime now. I agree with Penguin on the fact that the complications with your childs health could be raising your H SF and from personal experience fullfilling his needs for that my in turn increase your ownand it can also help you greive as well as heal together.

I however deeply disagree with everyone else who is saying that it is okay for your H to look at porn. I am a christian and the Bible says Don't not look at another with lust in your eyes it is a sin and form of adultry, from my point of view when my H is looking at porn and masturbating he may as well be with that woman he is looking at because I know he isn't thinking of me at the time. I don't believe there is anything wrong with masturbation and agree it is very healthy but I draw the line at looking at other women while doing it, from your reaction which was normal (I also get nausious, and angry andeverything else) you feel the same, you don't want your H to look at other women like that.

I also agree that it is a good thing that you found out now because it can turn into an addiction very quickly, and just because he is looking does not in any way mean he will have an actual affair. My H and I have been dealing with this for 4 years and he has not had an A nor has he thought of it.

If you do not trust that he will stop you may want to look into an activity logger for your computer. If you do trust him that is wonderful but either way you need to let him know exactly how it makes you feel and discuss together ways that will keep him from looking. Communication is key...

My prayers and thoughts are with you and your family. Go Bless

Welcome to Marriage Builders!

First of all, I can easily feel you pain and understand where you come from. Yet, also I will be frank to you.
This is not because I am callous, but because I think you need help to see this mater in perspective, and you need help to see this from the other side. (His side) Here at MB (Marriage builders) that is called to give a 2” x 4”, that is to give a knock on your head with a piece of wood.

So please prepare yourself, here comes the 2 x 4:

I) Your husband did wrong. Yet he has not betrayed you. There is quite a difference between what he did and an A (affair) with an other person. So take a few deep breaths and calm down! If you in you present pain is not be able to see this difference, then take my word for it. Masturbation is noting to be proud of. But please connect to reality. This is a male thing. Most males do so when they are sexually under-stimulated. And it is a way to release the pressure that does not usually hurt others.

II) That your libido has been killed by the strain of this year is really no excuse for not sharing intimacy of your bodies. Refusing intimacy is also a breaking of the M wows! From old times refusing intimacy has been considered a legal reason to divorce. Even the bible says husband and wife are to abstain only if agreed upon, and then for a short time "for prayer". They should than come together again.

III) Intimacy is a beautiful tool for bonding and strengthening in the M (marriage). In times of strain like you have been going through this year, you should both need bonding and strengthening more then ever. I think you fool yourself if you say that you don’t need intimacy. And your husband certainly does need it. His masturbation proves so. Remember intimacy is more then intercourse. You can cuddle, touch and have plenty of body contact even if you find intercourse difficult under the present strain of events.

IV) "The one with no sin can throw the first stone." If you have refused intimacy with your husband now for a full year then YOU are not without sin. From ancient times he would be considered in his full right to divorce you. Now he loves you and would not dream of threatening to do so. I think you then likewise should let the matter with his maturation come to rest. Forgive him and make a new start. And ask his forgiveness for not having shared intimacy with him for so long.

V) I think you should consider this a wake up call to you. Your M is strained under the pressure of the last years events. And from the lack of emotional needs fulfilment in that time. Strengthen your M so that you can support each other in these hard times. Identify your unfulfilled emotional needs (EM’s) and give high priority to support each other in that way. This is very much in your children’s interest. And in your own interest as well.

God bless your struggle with your children, and the struggle to build a better M. !