</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...not thinking clearlt yet... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't argue with that statement. Today on the way home from work, after my IC, before I talked to her, I said a prayer asking God to make the best decision for both of us. I of course would prefer that she come back, but know I have no control over that or anything right now. I asked him to just make me whole so that whatever path was given to me I would be able to handle it. I also asked that he make her suffering go away ao that she could live w/ herself.

Saturday night she asked to move out and Sunday she did. I was still hanging on to the thought that we had a chance b/c she said she would see me at MC on Thursday. She called yesterday and is coming by Today(Tue) to get some more of her 'stuff' (she says clothes, cat, her work materials). Once she said cat I knew there was no hope left for recomciliation. At least not from her right now possibly ever. I can hear in her voice that she is hurting more than I can even imagine. I don't think I trust her to come get her clothes, but want the D process to go smoothly so that we don't hate each other afterward. Why should this matter to me? She is the one leaving. She is the one who cheated and lied for over 1/2 our married life. I told her Sunday that I would call a family friend who is a lawyer to see what the laws here are concerning seperation and divorce. I told her last night that I called him and gave his ph # to her. She already has a lawyer she wants to contact on her own. I spent much of late last night researching the laws on D on my state. I can't believe it got to this. I'm at the end of the road. and yet. I have a lot of traveling to do. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...not thinking clearlt yet... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't argue with that statement. Today on the way home from work, after my IC, before I talked to her, I said a prayer asking God to make the best decision for both of us. I of course would prefer that she come back, but know I have no control over that or anything right now. I asked him to just make me whole so that whatever path was given to me I would be able to handle it. I also asked that he make her suffering go away ao that she could live w/ herself.

Saturday night she asked to move out and Sunday she did. I was still hanging on to the thought that we had a chance b/c she said she would see me at MC on Thursday. She called yesterday and is coming by Today(Tue) to get some more of her 'stuff' (she says clothes, cat, her work materials). Once she said cat I knew there was no hope left for recomciliation. At least not from her right now possibly ever. I can hear in her voice that she is hurting more than I can even imagine. I don't think I trust her to come get her clothes, but want the D process to go smoothly so that we don't hate each other afterward. Why should this matter to me? She is the one leaving. She is the one who cheated and lied for over 1/2 our married life. I told her Sunday that I would call a family friend who is a lawyer to see what the laws here are concerning seperation and divorce. I told her last night that I called him and gave his ph # to her. She already has a lawyer she wants to contact on her own. I spent much of late last night researching the laws on D on my state. I can't believe it got to this. I'm at the end of the road. and yet. I have a lot of traveling to do. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

ONMYBDAY

Good morning. I know things must seem like they have gone from bad to worse right now! I hope as you read through other posts here that you see that your situation isn't that unusual. And many people have still recovered. Read over at Recovery to get a sense of stories. Go back using the search engine with user ID #s to get full stories. I want you to be encouraged! There are some great recovery stories out there.

Onmybday, I think ForeverHers is offering to coach you and help you through this. For him, this is very much a faith commitment. (My apologies, ForeverHers, if I'm getting this wrong.) Before he can make a commitment to help you he needs to know you can make a commitment to God's will. Many here will tell you that he has made a real difference and helped them immeasurably. But God comes in the package with ForeverHers. He isn't going tell you to do anything wacky or way out there. No wild cults to join or anything. His help is founded in the scriptures and faith ..... as is true for some others on this website. And if you aren't a scriptures kinda guy ... that may throw you. Hey, do a search with his ID# and read some of the advice he has given others.

I think you need a plan, onmybday. One that you can make a commitment to keep even when it seems counterintuitive. Plan A (if there isn't any contact with OM) will be important to keep. Know what you mean to DO as part of Plan A. Sometimes we have a plan in our mind .... and that's where it stays ... a conceptualization. Plan A needs to be about behavior and action. And a commitment to stick to the plan as long as no contact takes place ... even when it seems counterintuitive.

Reread your thread here and on GQ, the info here on Plan A, and protect yourself while still sticking to the plan.

I reread this post and it sounds garbled but I can't think of how to better organize it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I think I'm trying to say it is still very very early. Keep your love for your W close to your heart. Let it be a beacon. Nail down that plan A in terms of what it means in action and behavior. When the Plan is down, don't abandon it. Read and keep reading what others have posted to give you insight and hope.

Keep praying for God's guidance. I liked the prayer you wrote in your post. Also pray for your wife. PEM (on recovery) reminded me to pray for my H. I had forgotten to! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I've started praying that my H have the strength to be the man he wants to be, to recognize and follow God's will, and to protect him from the self-centeredness that got us into this mess.

heart

she asked to move out

Just a question...why did she ask? Was she looking to see how you would respond? Was this really a question for you to answer as opposed to her telling you her plans to move out, meaning she had already made up her mind? If this was a question, maybe she moved out because she thought you wanted her to not because SHE really wanted to....Interesting.

It wasn't that she was asking to move out. She was telling me she was. She is not interested in M anymore. I had no choice. I asked her for more time to go to MC and she said it wouldn't do any good. She had made up her mind. We talked yesterday and I was still holdong on to hope. She crushed that. Today she picked up more of her stuff. I am nervously waiting to get home from work to see what her stuff was. Tonight I change the locks. Tomorrow the bank accounts, insurance, etc... She has made it very clear that she won't go on w/ me. I talked w/ a friend who confided in me that he was a WH. Said it took years to get over and his was fleeting. My W's A's were long term and I don't know if she wil ever recover. If she does it will be w/o me unfortunately. I am praying that she won't hurt forever. I am still holding the smallest tiniest bit of hope she will change her mind. I just don't see it happening. I will always love her and will never know what happened. I am going to focus on me. I'm still in the 1st stage of grief. Hate/Rage isn't here yet. I have great friends and family and know everything will be okay.

This is not the time to give up.

This is Alternate 2 of the WS playbook.

Stay in Plan A and do the best you can.

Focus on you and your making your life whole and positive.

Let her know she is welcome back, and you will forgive her for her A, but there is work that will have to be done on your M.

Stay in touch with her, without "leaning" on her, or making yourself appear needy.

Send her friendly e-mails inquiring about her well being.

Send her small token gifts, but nothing flashy or pricey. Little things she might enjoy, one longstem rose, with a little cat attached to it.

This is not the time to give up, it's the time for you to make all the positive changes in you she might have "suggested". If you can't think of any changes, then go to work on your house. Paint a room, deep clean, rearrange things. All things for the positive. Things she can readily "see" that are positive changes.

Go ahead with your MC. It will show your spirit to recover is not just words, but action.

Keep in touch with her by inviting her to lunch or dinner a couple times a week, and if she accepts, do NOT talk about the A or your M. Just get used to being together and enjoy that time for what it is.

JMHO
SD

<small>[ February 16, 2005, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: shattered dreams ]</small>

ONMYBDAY

I hope you are still checking in here. I check this thread about once a day to see if you have posted.

I found this posted by Ark^ on GQII and thought it good info for you.

Let me know how you are doing!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">quote from Ark^
It is my opinion that there are a lot common missapplications going on round here....

this is posted in hope to offer focus and in hope that those that have applied certain tactics chime in and offer their well spent two cents (mortarman)

this is not to point fingers and say bad BS

Too many people are missapplying Plan A based too closely on their WS comments...and actions....

Alot of these plans are done INSPITE of how their WS reacts.....

exposure is the perfect example...while there are great many things to consider about exposure...the WS "feelings" is not necessarily a deciding factor...

lets just bet the house that the WS will not like exposure
lets just bet the house that the WS will be angry about exposure...

Also it is very very important that BS do all they can to facilitate communication between the WS and children....
some measures may appear to have to be extreme...
and they ARE NOT usually FAIR to the BS...

it's not FAIR that the BS may have to supply calling cards to the WS
it's not FAIR that the BS may have to get extra phone lines
It's not FAIR that the BS may have to have some visitation in the family home....

but the bigger picture..is that the BS does all they can to facilitate clear and open channels....

while at the same keeping great gaurd and observance of damage the fogged up WS may say to the children...

BS need clear strong boundaries....and clear logical communication about how and what is told to the children...

it's not fair the BS may have to seek out counsel for the children
it's not fair the BS may have to pick the children up off the floor after the WS has once again dissappointed them...
it's not FAIR the BS may have to bite their tongue bloody to not dump and vent on their kids...

Plan A can enable an affair at times...which is why it needs the time limit.

Plan A should be enacted with the thought of plan B down the road...and preperation for it should be worked on....

one should not decide that plan A is enabling an affair...then withdraw plan A with no plan at all....

and mostly plan A is done inspite of the WS...

WS attention is often gained when the BS reactions and interactions confuse them and intrigue them....

human nature...old patterns of argueing and resolving conflict are familiar with us...
and familiarity makes us feel safe...

if people have used yelling...swearing...name calling in their aguements...just the removal of these things from conflict can often get the attention ....of the one who is expecting these things.....

it is the small things...

Bobpure's wife is just now verbalizing her great surprise and interest in how bobpure reacted to things VS how she EXPECTED him to react....

this is a great tool of the BS...

none of it's fair....
it sucks...

let go of wanting fairness
let go of giving much weight to the WS response...

think before you open your mouth.... which I rarely do....

be calm...
be drama free...

ARK
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Well, met w/ an attorney today. Not happy about that. My STBXW is meeting me at MC tomorrow(what a joke) I guess for her to have closure. I have so many questions to ask. I still haven't processed the A's and she's coming over tomorrow to divide property up. I've tried having non-A sonversations on the phone but she isn't interested. Thank God I have a great group of friends in the area. I don't want a D but she won't even consider waiting. Her family is enabling her to leave the state ASAP. I don't get it. Her brother is happily M and her parents are M over 40yrs. They worked thru lots of medical problems together(some mental) and they are happy. I don't understand why she won't even try. Somethings going on in her head. I wish I could get in there. I want her to be okay. W/ or w/o me. I'll always love her, but I'm drying up day by day. HOw long will the hurt be here. I wish she would have at least tried a few months before giving up. At least I would have felt we didn't just punt. MY IC on Mon went well. The counselor was very understanding and just listened w/o judging. I see my MD on Friday. I don't have any pants that fit. Just did my budget and I'm going to be broke. B/C of the quick escape of hers I don't think I'll ever understand what happened. That will hurt more than anything. How can I be sure I won't put a future relationship in the same situation. The relationship I had before my wife ended b/c GF slept w/ my former best friend. I need help picking out better women.

Must keep head up. Must eat. Must exercise. Must take time to grieve. Must keep going.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I grew up Catholic but am not active. (my choice not hers) I am having issues w/ the hypocracy in the church and pray on my own privately. She has no religion that she follows. She does have a strong value system (yeah right) and is generally a good person. I don't push religion on her and have been talking w/ a Lutheren pastor friend who knows both of us. Her advice, "focus on me". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">onmybday - IF your nonbelieving wife continues to be adamant about wanting to leave, the biblical instruction is to "let her go." Yes, it's painful, but you are "unevenly yoked" and simple things like "obey God" have no meaning to unbelievers.

An example is your statement of her being a "generally a good person" with "a strong value system." This is typical humanistic reason. Everything is "relative" and there are no absolute "right and wrong" things, just that if "on balance" the person is more "good" than "bad." "On balance," most people who kill other people on pretty "good" most of the time too. "So what's the big deal" if they have no value in, or respect for, the commitments of marriage? Very few role models in Hollywood do either and, hey, they are "good people too."

onmbybday - understand that in the midst of this devastation God is trying to reach YOU too. YOU have to make a choice. You can finally surrender your life to God and obey His commands, or you can continue to keep doing whatever you feel like doing. After all, your choices have worked out great all the time, haven't they?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Somethings going on in her head. I wish I could get in there.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">onmbybday, you are too new here to really understand what is going on. Plus, you are also dealing with your own current emotional turbulence. There are TWO basic things that are most likely going on in her head.

1. The affair HAS ended and she is caught up in withdrawal. All she can really feel or think about right now is the pain the results from stopping an addiction. Until the most intense phase of withdrawal (usually around 4 weeks but could run 4-8 weeks) ends, virtually NOTHING you do or say, or that anyone else says either, is going to get through the fog and register in her mind, or,

2. The affair has never ended. It briefly went underground when you found out, but the moving out is simply a way to enable the affair to continue without you being in the picture to remind her that she is committing adultery.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want her to be okay. W/ or w/o me. I'll always love her, but I'm drying up day by day.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We all understand this feeling. It's because YOU love her. This is good. This is what you need to be able to Plan A and possibly save your marriage. But either way, Plan A WILL make you stronger and better in the future.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">HOw long will the hurt be here. I wish she would have at least tried a few months before giving up. At least I would have felt we didn't just punt.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The hurt will be there for quite a while. She can't "try" right now because of the reasons that I stated above. Just remember that "trying" is no guarantee either. IF a "try" IS attempted, you are BOTH going to have to make some major changes in yourselves if you are to have a recovered marriage and learn to love each other as God has intended.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MY IC on Mon went well. The counselor was very understanding and just listened w/o judging.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's nice. All about listening and letting you vent. No "judging." Very comforting, but not likely to accomplish much except for what it did, make you "feel" better even though no real change has been addressed or made, or even pointed out as being needed.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I see my MD on Friday. I don't have any pants that fit. Just did my budget and I'm going to be broke. B/C of the quick escape of hers I don't think I'll ever understand what happened. That will hurt more than anything.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A check up with the Doctor is always a good idea. So is the possibility of meds if you are having trouble with the wild swings of emotions from anxiety and/or depression that often accompany infidelity and divorce.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How can I be sure I won't put a future relationship in the same situation. The relationship I had before my wife ended b/c GF slept w/ my former best friend. I need help picking out better women. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How you can be sure that YOU won't put any potential future relationship (including a recovered marriage with your wife) "in the same solution" is to truly accept Jesus Christ as both your Savior and as LORD of your life. You simply do you utmost to follow His commands in humble obedience. You put Christ on the "Throne of your life," not yourself or your "wants and desires."

Should your current marriage end in divorce, and should you entertain the idea of marriage in the future, you MUST be certain that your potential wife IS a believer and that you are both committed to living your lives in surrender to God. Walking away from, or neglecting a walk with God, IS a recipe for problems. There are enough problems that can impact a marriage WHILE you are walking with God. To remove the "full armor of God" and go into battle in this fallen world without armor or sword is to GROSSLY UNDERESTIMATE the strength and power of your enemy and the evil in the world.

onmybday, What has the Joint Marriage Counselor had to say? Marriage Counseling is, or should be, quite different from Individual Counseling. Marriage Counseling is about what the two parts of the "One Flesh" marriage need to do to help each other, not about what makes either one feel good at the expense of the other.

God bless.

ForeverHers,
Thank you for taking your time to listen to my ramblings. I only wish I had been connected to you sooner, maybe even before I confronted my wife so that I could have begun making changes in me to make me stronger before this situation. Your words ring true and I will continue to look for your encouragement (you too HeartandSoul - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . MY STBXW is coming over today after MC to divide up our property. I sent her a copy of a post I found (Trueheart’s letter to WS’ everywhere:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=010715). I am hoping that she will read it before what will most likely be our last MC and that she will give herself some more time before she makes a decision to leave or stay.

IF your nonbelieving wife continues to be adamant about wanting to leave, the biblical instruction is to "let her go."
This is what I am going to do. As much as I would love to have her back, I can’t keep her here if she won’t stay.

1. The affair HAS ended and she is caught up in withdrawal. All she can really feel or think about right now is the pain the results from stopping an addiction. Until the most intense phase of withdrawal (usually around 4 weeks but could run 4-8 weeks) ends, virtually NOTHING you do or say, or that anyone else says either, is going to get through the fog and register in her mind
I think this is where she is now. She just refuses to believe that the fog will lift. She has already made plans to go to live w/ her brother on the East Coast (we are currently in TX). By the time the fog begins to lift, the D she is insisting on will possible be final and she will be half a country away.

What has the Joint Marriage Counselor had to say?
We have only been 3 times.
1 – First day WW came back. All we did was tell our story and get some facts on the table. MC said that we needed to figure out our needs before we could work on our M.
2 – 5 days later. We took our need lists in and discussed. My list focused on family and sharing my life w/ W. Her list focused on her desire to be alone and have’space’. We then discussed things w/ my side of the family to see where patterns in my behavior are rooted so that I could learn to meet W’s needs better and so that W could understand where I was coming from. W also admitted that she was still not ready to commit to trying to fix the M.
3 – 2 days before W said she wanted to leave. We mostly discussed W’s side of the family to determine where her patterns of behavior were rooted. MC said that we needed to continue talking about what our needs were and to continue to try to fill them. I knew that W would not be able to for a while but knew that I could start filling hers better. I was already making changes in my behavior at home and at work (as best as I could, considering I was/am still in shock).

If/when we get a D, I will still work on Plan A for me. Can I hold any hope, considering her plans, that it will do any good for her? The answer will not deter me from continuing to be a better person and focus on healing and growth. I’m just curious (probably still holding on a little here).

OMB

Her brother called me by accident today.He and I hadn't talked yet since the whole thing started. He is a real nice guy and we get along real well. I told him that I hold no bad feelings toward his sister right now but I am worried for her. I let him know that all of her decisions seemed rash and that while she wouldn't listen to me for him to be sure to be there for her.I asked him if he could give me any insight as to why this happened and he said that it had nothing to do w/ OM. That it was her. I am going to take what he said w/ a grain of salt b/c they have that bro/sis bond. But I don't I believe him b/c he and I have always had an open communication. I don't think he saw this coming either. Her lies are so deep.

Went to MC w/ her. Our last session. She already has plans to move out East to her brother's for now until she finds a job. She has already rented the uhaul truck for Sunday. We went through the house tonight and divided everything up. We have a plan for the finances and she is going to review so we can finalize things tomorrow. 10 years of our lives put on a spreadsheet. Divided like a corporate sell off. I hurt so bad right now.

I started off going to the MD this AM. I've lost 14 lbs since 1/24. (Could use to lose another 6 or 8 but not this way.) He put me on meds to help. I am hoping I am on the front of the 2-4 week window.

Day 2 of the escape. She came over w/ her cousin and we spent the day dividing up the little things and packing. Well, she and her cousin packed. I'm not the leaving. She plans on coming back Sunday w/ a U-Haul to take it all away. I am in total shock. I found a bunch of letters she has written me from before we got married until a month ago all saying how much she loved me and being w/ me etc... I don't know who that woman was today.

I would suggest you consider returning those love letters she wrote to you before the two of you got married without a single comment on your part. If she has any feelings left for you, the returning of those letters will most definitely have an impact on her. Who knows, maybe reading those letters again just might clear her foggy head a bit just enough for her to stop and think what she has done and what she is about to lose.

TMCM

There are a combination of letters from before and when we were M. Including some from as recent as a few months ago. The problem w/ returning the letters is that I think I really want to keep them. They remind of the woman she used to be, not the woman that she has become.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by onmybday:
The problem w/ returning the letters is that I think I really want to keep them. They remind of the woman she used to be, not the woman that she has become.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I totally understand your desire of wanting to keep those letters but by returning them to her you'd be giving her the opportunity to confront the woman she is with the woman she has become. Not to mention, by returning them to her you'd be acknowledging that you want the woman who wrote those beatiful words of love to you and not the one who is saying the same things to another man. Please think about it.

TMCM

I really just don't see how that is going to change the situation even a little bit. She is coming over tomorrow to finalize the division of our finances and determine what we do with the house. She is bringing a Uhual to take "her stuff". In a week she'll be driving back East to be on her own. She isn't even going to live in the area. Maybe I'll go make a copy to keep for myself. I just don't know. Everything happened so fast. It hasn't even been four weeks since I foind out about the affairs and she is leaving. They lasted nearly 5 years. I'm still processing the cheating and am expected to process the leaving. I so desperately want to fight but have been beat up so much in the last 3 weeks and especially 6 days that I want to give up so it'll just be over. It's hard. I still love her. I hate what she is doing, but I still love her. I pray that one day she is whole again for her sake. I just don't think I'll ever see it.