Hi, this is my first time writing and I am looking for some help.

Marriage of 5 years. Very happy. Poor communication between us. I am the talkative one, my wife keeps a lot of things to herself.

Anyway, On New Year's eve, my wife and I went to spend the evening with two of our closest friends ( another couple ). Several months ago, we found out that this couple was involved with "swinging". We had been friends with them for years, and I did not consider this a threat to us.

In fact, the fact that they were swingers somewhat intrigued us ( my wife much more than I as you'll soon hear ). I discussed this issue with my wife prior to this evening and let her know that I had no intererest in doing any swinging. I also discussed briefly with the my friend ( the male husband of the other couple ) that I would never want to participate in that type of sex with my wife.

So this evening, we all had a lot to drink, and were having a good time. Then, my wife and I pushed some boundaries and had sex together while the other couple did the same thing on the other end of the room. While I did not want to swing, I was willing to have sex in the same room as the other couple. I was hesitant, but my wife was excited about doing this so I continued.

Shortly after the sex, my wife and I fell a sleep in the same room as the other couple. The alchohol really knocked me out. Well, the next morning my wife was crying as she explained to me that she had sex with the other couple ( both the man and the woman ). She said she stopped the man and only had sex with him for a minute or less( ok sure ).

I was so shocked I could barely breathe. She says that she always had a fantasy about being in that type of situation ( now she tells me ! ), and that the alchohol allowed her to act out on her fantasy and didn't think about the consequences. While all of that was going on by the way, I was right there in the room. If I would have woken up, I would have gone crazy and there is no telling what I would have done.

I am now destroyed, depressed, humiliated, lonely, and every other possible negative adjective you can think of. I also have been suicidal and have a lot of rage towards my friend who betrayed me. My wife says that she will never do it again and is not exactly sure why she did it, besides the fantasy and the alchohol.

My questions for the group are:

-Can a woman really love her spouse and disrespect him in such a way while he is right there in the room. She was not even on the pill ( lickily she is not pregnant, and she said he did not you know, god this is hard to write about )
-For Men to answer, can I ever get these visions of what happened that night out of my head and see my wife as the same pure lovely woman. I do not see her the same.
-Can I ever trust her again. If she could do this while I was right there in the room, what else is she capable of.
-Can a marriage ever recover from something like this.

Please help.

I am soo sorry that you find yourself here, but this is a great to "recover". I am still new at this, but I do know how you feel, as do many others. My H had asked for us to swing soo many times before he actually had his A. In fact the other woman wanted to be with both of us before he was with her alone(although I think she was just saying that to get HIM into bed)!
I can not tell you how to get over this, as I am still new to my own pain, but many people have told me that you can if both parties are willing to work on it.
I would suggest that you implement no contact with this other couple. Write a letter to them telling them that you value your marriage more than their friendship, and that to recover you need to cease all contact with them. Look on the site, it will show you how.
Is your wife willing to do that? Is she truly remorseful? Is she willing to stand by you while you process your pain? You need to TALK to her. And probably will also need to get couseling! It does help!
I hope that you find he strength and advice that you need.
True

Thank you. We have cut off all communication from the other couple ( besides me sending hate emails the the guy, I guess I need to stop doing that ).

My wife cries everyday with me. She truly regrets what she did and says she loves me very much and is so sorry she hurt me. We are in counseling.

Thank you

Hello,

I am sorry for your pain. There are a couple of things that jump out at me from your letter.
First, you knew that this other couple were into swinging.
Second, you have sex with your wife in front of them and then you passed out. Surely you could see that what you were doing was giving out mixed messages to the other couple and your wife.

Another problem that jumps out at me was the fact that your wife could do this to you while you were just a few feet away and the fact that she said that she did not know why she did this. My guess is that she knows exactly why she did this. She said it was a fantasy of hers and that she was hoping you would not wake up and so she took the chance. I would seriously question her comment that he did not ejaculate in her especially since she did not take any precautions.
I hope that both of you have been tested for STD's. This couple was into swinging and this puts them at high risk for STD's. For your wife to engage in this behavior without protection is madness. I understand drinking was involved but to do this when you are right next to her sleeping is beyond comprehension. The bottom line I think is that she made a deliberate choice to do this and almost destroy her marriage to you. Her comment that she did not know why she did it is very doubtful. She did it because she wanted to do it and thought she could do it because you were sleeping. Until she faces the truth and decides to go to counseling to understand why she would do such a thing; then it will be difficult for you to rebuild trust in her now and in the future. I wish you luck.

Bryanp, thank you for your honest feedback, I really need to hear that.

I agree that I was sending mixed messages. It excited my wife to have sex in the same room as them so I agreed.

I also agree with you that her doing this while I was right there in the room is beyond comprehension. That is the hardest part for me, that she could do this while I was right there and risk our lives like this. I cannot say what I would have done if I had woken up.

I love my wife very much and want to rebuild our marriage. I am no saint myself, but have never had exta-marital sex. The visions of that night are killing me. I have these dreams where I wake up and see them, but then can't do anything about what is happening.

I just don't know if I can get these visions out of my head, they eat at me everyday. I have also had thoughts of getting revenge on my friend who betrayed me. I actually have a lot of rage towards him. I know this would not do any good. But, how could a man, my best friend, take my wife like this while I was only feet away from him. It seems evil and like I should repay him in some way.

Hello again,

This is just my opinion but I would strongly suggest that you do not try to do anything to this other man. Clearly he was never truly your friend. I am afraid that you are displacing your anger at him although it is certainly revolting that he would do this. Your wife deliberately and willingly left your side while you were sleeping to jump into bed with the other man and woman to have unprotected sex with both of them. Who is really at fault? Did the OM and his wife force your wife and rape her? The answer is NO! The anger you have is being projected on the OM and OW and I understand it but nobody put a gun to your wife and told her to jump in bed with both of them when you were asleep. Your wife desperately needs counseling to come to grips why she deliberately made this choice. In short, your anger at the OM is understandable but misguided. The fault is with your wife who jumped at the chance to betray you and your marriage. Please have both of you go to counseling. I wish you luck.

I can almost relate completely relate with you. My story. We were going through some problems, mainly her EA with a gay man and nudist (she participated a few times a week), and the breaking point was her kissing a man I told her very point blank I did not trust in any shape or form. We agreed she needed to move out and she moves in with three guys. To earn money she possed nude for a guy that lead to oral sex. With one of the girlfriends she gave a show for the other three guys and "helped" the couple have sex. To this day I am not sure if I believe her a 100%. I have forgiven her 100% and love her completely. This was all of 3 years ago.

The memories have faded and the triggers are less frequent and less intense. Time can and does heal this wound if you both are willing to work at it. Though I know from my experience all this sex stuff was simply hiding the fact I was not satisfing some of her needs. That is why I suggest you fill out the The Emotional Needs Questionnaire (ENQ). You will be surprised what comes out. And it is great for starting conversations. Though the rollercoaster of emotions has barely slowed down, it is still a great way to start. Also you both should get to a counsellor I would of course go with Steve Harley.

Again I am sorry you had to find this place. But you are among friends now come and vent and ask all the questions you want.

<small>[ February 09, 2005, 11:24 PM: Message edited by: Listener48 ]</small>

opps

<small>[ February 09, 2005, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: Listener48 ]</small>

Destroyed Man,

Sorry you had to come here. I visited MB shortly after my D-Day (12/02/03), but didn't find the forum until last week. I think getting visuals of your WS with the OP is fairly normal. My dreams of my FWH with the FOW have finally stopped. I still get the movie pictures too often when I am awake though. They are tough to take. My FWH's A lasted 8 months. Because of the 2500 mile distance between he and the OW they were only able to meet about once a month. I had met the OW a couple of times and would NEVER have imagined that my H would become involved in an A with her. She is heavy, unkempt, professionally unsuccessful and an emotional basketcase, I am non of these things! This all makes the visuals nauseating. I like you love my H and am still struggling. Hang in there, this forum lets me know every day that I am not alone in this and that my feelings are all to familiar to the other members. Good Luck.

Thank you to the last three replies.

BryanP, my counselor says that my anger should be more directed at my friend who betrayed me. I do have a lot of anger, mostly directed at him. He was in a position to be a better man, respect me as a man, and failed. I agree with you that my wife failed also, and I am agry with her and this anger seems to be increasing. But, the OM put our lives in jeopardy. When a man says to another man that he does not want to wife swap, and the other man takes his wife any way with him in the room sleep it is total disrespect by that man.

I could never hit my wife, but I could this other man. I appreciate your comments about where to direct the anger, and will take under advisement.

Hello once again,

I totally understand your hatred of the other man.
I have been in your position and I too have felt what you felt. I am just wondering how many male friends would say I would never have sex with a friend wife and then one night the friend's wife crawls nude into bed with him and starts fondling him, how many males would push the wife anyway?
I am afraid not enough men would kick them out of bed.

I agree that you will have enormous angry at the OM and of course you would love to hurt him but I would disagree with your counselor. The OM is a jerk but he is not your wife who made a legal committment to you to love and respect you and share your life with. The OM showed he was not a friend and a liar but your wife deliberately smashed her wedding vows, disrespected and humiliated her husband and deliberately made a choice to have unprotected sex with this man a few feet away from her husband. This OM never married you and never said he loved you. Your wife married you and said she loved you and it was her choice to do this to you.
The fault lies predominantly with your wife and I think you realize this. How could it not be?
I wish you luck. Please get tested and have your wife in individual therapy to understand why she would put this marriage in such jeopardy.

BryanP, I am afraid that you are correct.

My advise to others in the past has been just as you are advising me now. The OM did not take wedding vows, did not promise to love me. I don't want to beleive this advise because it means some things that I am not ready to deal with.

By focusing my anger on my wife, it gets me to the reality that I may never be able to forgive what she has done and that I will have to leave her. That realization scares me to death. I love my wife and have no contingency plan for my marriage. I also have a 3 year old son whom I love very much. We just bought a brand new house which will be difficult to turn around and sell. The list of things goes on.

I find myself thinking about moving on and leaving my wife, but my hold world comes crumbling down thinking about life without her.

Hello,

I am really sorry what you have to endure.
It is so terribly unfair. I wish I had an answer for you but I do not. I wish you well.

The fact that your wife is sorry for this is a good sign. I think that you also realize that alcohol is very much to blame for this situation. The fact that your wife was intrigued should have been a big warning flag to you that this was not a good situation to put yourself and your wife into. It sounds like you accept responsibility for this and she does too.

I believe that you can restore your marriage and the fact that you are going to counseling is step in the right direction. You will have to find a way to forgive your wife in order for recovery to begin. The anger will subside. Obviously you still love your wife in spite of a huge mistake that she made.

I hope that both of you can learn from this and heal your marriage. I won't presume to push my religious beliefs on you; only to say that if you ask God for help He will hear you.

DM,
I too have issues with blaming the OW too much. My H takes full responsibilty for his actions, but I also know that he was placed in a situation that he would have not been bold enough to start.
However, he points out to me that many on here(myself especially) are so full of hate for the OP and that they are not putting the blame where it should REALLY lie, their cheating spouse. I've told him that it easier to hate the OP than it is to face that your spouse could do something so cold and selfish. It may be wrong, BUT at least in my case, it does help me "forgive".
I have never hated someone as much as I hate the OW, and it sacres me. But what scares me even more is that my H is the OM in her situation, and he doesn't feel any guilt or responsibilty to her fiance.
Hang in there!
True

To Truetoself,

I hope you have informed the fiance so that he is aware of it and will have all of the information before he decides to get married. He is owed at least that much.

Your comment that your husband has no guilt feelings or remorse for the fiance is typical of a person who has a broken moral compass. These people could care less about the pain and damage they inflict to other innocent people as long as they are able to fulfill their selfish desires.
I just read your other thread where your husband encourages you to do the same thing to experience the pleasure. It is sad that some people simply are devoid of basic human compassion for the people they injure. He has no remorse or compassion for others for what he has done. What kind of message is he really telling you and I wonder what kind of role model he will be for your children?

I am sorry to say that no, I did not inform the fiance, b/c I could get no information on him from my H. The OW had told my H that she was breaking things off with him, even after the affair ended, which is one of the reasons he did not feel guilty. She had already started to contact another man, and was well on her way into another affair(yes she started this while screwing my H). I wanted soo much to talk to him, but only know his first name. They have no home phone # that I know about, so again, I cannot talk to him. I wish I could!
As for my husband, he is very remorseful when it comes to what he has done to me, but yes, he looks at sex from a scientist point of view. We are all animals and are programmed to be sexual with many partners. Unfortunately, if I want to stay with him, I need to accept this(not that he will do it, but that he thinks that way). I have in the past, and look where it led, so yes, I am afraid that he will do it again. I always expected him to do it, so it was my fault that I got hurt.
He is a terrific father, although, he does make selfish choices, but don't we all?
Thank you for your opinion and I will really give it some thought.
True