Me 34
W 33
OM 34 never married, numerous affairs in past
Married 10 yrs
3 kids 4,6,8
Both W's dad and my dad had infidelities. My dad divorced, remarried.

W and I met in college at 21
Married at 24 and W got pregnant 3 months later
I was not a great husband - poor role models

Summer of 2001 At 7 yrs of marriage after 3rd child, W met OM --personal trainer
W attracted to him - I encouraged it, due to my guilt from own infidelity at a strip club two years earlier (that I had not confessed)

Sept 2001 W had a one night stand with OM - did not reveal until much later

Jan-Feb 2002 W began EA

Feb 2002 Me,W and OM went out and afterwards W had sex with me and OM. I was very disgusted with myself and remorseful. W continued relationship with OM - though she insisted friendship.

APR 2002 W confesses PA - our families and friends learn whole saga, entered therapy and W filed for divorce

JUNE 2002 W and I decide to try to reconcile, stop divorce proceedings, and move 500 miles away from OM, Plan Aing and entered therapy for 2 years.

JULY 2002 to now - Numerous DDs - too many to mention. W denies, minimizes, says she will have NC - but does not. OM has come here 1 a month. EA and PA continued. W hides well, but still I find out. Me plan "A"ing though at times very difficult. Both been in Bible studies, counseling and church since.

Last week - I finally had enough. I moved out. Could not bear any longer, not getting better. Starting Plan B.

W says she realizes her life is messed up. Says she is having NC with OM. Sent NC letter to OM and copied me. She says she is resuming therapy. W wants me to move back in - says she needs my help to end it with OM. It has only been 5 days!

I told her I needed at least 3 months - a protection phase for us both. For her to prove to herself and me that it is finally over.

She seems to think I am trying to teach her a lesson - punish her. I know that being a single parent to 3 kids and 3 dogs is not easy, but I think she needs to do this on her own. I told her I would encourage her, but I could not be her accountability partner and her coach. I offered to switch places, let her be in an apt on her own for 3 months and let me stay with kids. She refused.

Am I wrong to stand my ground? I don't want to end my marriage, but truly believe that this way is the only way for it to be saved. I want to help her - but I think only she can save herself. I have been trying for 3 years...and we are still at day 1.

Am I wrong? W.hat W.ould J.esus D.o?

wwjd,

When you went to Plan B did you send here a plan B letter? If not you should. A plan B letter is a love letter and it makes it clear you are doing this to "punish" her, but to protect your love for her. There is a big difference.

Please read up on plan B.

God Bless,

JL

wwjd now - I'm going to skip the usual "I understand" and "I'm sorry this is happening" and jump right to what I think is the basic problem for both of you.

"wwjd" implies, though you never stated it, that you and your wife are Christians. So I am going to assume that is the case and tell you where you BOTH must begin. IF either of you is unwilling to begin with this commitment, then I wish you well because neither of you has a clue as to what marriage is or what it should look like.

Here's the commitment that you and your wife need to make:

Obey God. It matters NOT how you may feel or think about anything that God commands. You simply DO it.

Are you both willing to make that commitment?

What Would Jesus Do? He is waiting for your response.

ForeverHers,

I appreciate your bluntness. Yes W and I are both Christians. Yes, I want to DO what God wants me to DO. I have for 3 years I believe by staying in our relationship despite the numerous, countless DDs and struggle with trying to show unconditional love.

I do not want to end my marriage. I want to save it. Why should I expect that continuing to do the same thing (staying at home, Plan Aing) that have for the last 3 years will have a different outcome in the next year?

I am moving out because I believe it is time for a change - tough love. I really believe God would have me do this. I have sought the counel of 3 strong Christian married men.

It is not a decision I made lightly. I have tried to avoid doing this numerous times in the last 3 years. But we are still at Day 1 because of her choices. Now I believe God wants me to choose. And I am choosing I believe the course that has the best chance of saving my marriage.

This post sounds strangly familiar to me. I've read this exact story. Is your W posting here by any chance ?

I'm on the side of marital recovery can really only occur if you're living in a marital state..but everyone has to do what's right.

I can see how you're wife think's you're punishing her.

Why the time frame of 3 months ?

wwjd now - You are a Christian. Your wife is a Christian.

One more time I'm going to ask you if YOU are willing to obey God regardless of how you are feeling or how "justified" you feel an action might be IF God says to do something else?

If your wife is a Christian, is SHE willing to humbly OBEY God's commands, no "and's, if's, or but's?"

wwjd now, I am very curious as to how you came up with the 3 month timeframe and just how your wife is supposed to "prove" to you that "it's over?"

This statement alone tells me that you don't understand what is going on, you don't understand what recovery is all about, you don't understand whole lot that you NEED to understand.

For someone who engaged in "sharing his wife" with another man to this "holier than thou" stance that seems to be coming through loudly in your post, I am hearing a lot missing in your role and responsibility as husband and Christ's representative in your marriage.

Are you willing to put down the anger, hurt, and defensiveness, and begin to learn more about "walking with God" and fulfilling your roles as commanded by God?

If the answer is "yes," then send me an email to mbforeverhers@yahoo.com and I'll email you back a couple of pamphlets that should help get you both started. One is called "Marriage. Whose Dream?" and the other is called "What Do You Do When Your Marriage Goes Sour?"

God bless.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Summer of 2001 At 7 yrs of marriage after 3rd child, W met OM --personal trainer
W attracted to him - I encouraged it, due to my guilt from own infidelity at a strip club two years earlier (that I had not confessed)

Sept 2001 W had a one night stand with OM - did not reveal until much later

Jan-Feb 2002 W began EA

Feb 2002 Me,W and OM went out and afterwards W had sex with me and OM. I was very disgusted with myself and remorseful. W continued relationship with OM - though she insisted friendship.

APR 2002 W confesses PA - our families and friends learn whole saga, entered therapy and W filed for divorce

JUNE 2002 W and I decide to try to reconcile, stop divorce proceedings, and move 500 miles away from OM, Plan Aing and entered therapy for 2 years.

JULY 2002 to now - Numerous DDs - too many to mention. W denies, minimizes, says she will have NC - but does not. OM has come here 1 a month. EA and PA continued. W hides well, but still I find out. Me plan "A"ing though at times very difficult. Both been in Bible studies, counseling and church since.

Last week - I finally had enough. I moved out. Could not bear any longer, not getting better. Starting Plan B.

W says she realizes her life is messed up. Says she is having NC with OM. Sent NC letter to OM and copied me. She says she is resuming therapy. W wants me to move back in - says she needs my help to end it with OM. It has only been 5 days!

I told her I needed at least 3 months - a protection phase for us both. For her to prove to herself and me that it is finally over.

She seems to think I am trying to teach her a lesson - punish her. I know that being a single parent to 3 kids and 3 dogs is not easy, but I think she needs to do this on her own. I told her I would encourage her, but I could not be her accountability partner and her coach. I offered to switch places, let her be in an apt on her own for 3 months and let me stay with kids. She refused.

Am I wrong to stand my ground? I don't want to end my marriage, but truly believe that this way is the only way for it to be saved. I want to help her - but I think only she can save herself. I have been trying for 3 years...and we are still at day 1.

Am I wrong? W.hat W.ould J.esus D.o? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">wwjd now - Okay, there is so much to talk about and you are not responding very promptly, so I'll just "KISS" it for now and comment on a few brief statements you made.

1. You are a Christian. Okay, I'll accept that at face value. But I am also going to want to know how "new" of a Christian you are, as well as your wife since you say that you are both Christians. NEITHER of you is, or has been, acting in a very Christian way, so I need to gain an understanding of just what being a "Christian" means to YOU and to your WIFE.

2. You admitted to committing infidelity yourself PRIOR to your wife's episode with the OM. The you encouraged her involvement with the OM and you blame it on YOUR guilt ("see, if she has an affair then MY affair won't seem so bad because we will both be guilty of infidelity"), then you proceed to "sharing" your wife and her "holy of holies" with the OM....but it's okay because YOU are there and participating.

wwjd now, IF your story is real and not made up you have some SERIOUS misunderstandings of what it means to be a HUSBAND, much less what it means to be a Christian. You are going to have to convince me, and I suspect many others on the system, that your story is REAL and that you REALLY DO want help.

3. When the friends and family "learned the whole story," did they learn about YOUR adultery previously or just your wife's adultery?

4. IF you believe that "I told her I would encourage her" is a part of a PLAN B, then you don't understand Plan B either. You ARE trying to manipulate and control her. If YOU, her husband and the spiritual head of your household are NOT going to be her accountability partner and leader in your marriage, WHO IS going to fulfill YOUR God-given and God-commanded role?

5. "Am I wrong to stand my ground? I don't want to end my marriage, but truly believe that this way is the only way for it to be saved."

Yes, wwjd now, you are wrong in your current action, in my humble opinion. You are "justifying" your actions and twisting Scripture to allow you to behave AGAINST God's commands. This (arbitrary 3 month separation where you get to abdicate your RESPONSIBILITIES as a husband and as a father) is NOT only NOT the "only way for it(your marriage) to be saved," it will most likely have the opposite effect because you are approaching it from what appears to be a totally selfish perspective.

wwjd now, I know that a lot of what I said sounds harsh. It isn't meant that way, but it is meant to get you to start thinking about what you are doing and whether or not what you are doing, and/or have been doing, is really what Jesus would do for YOU, HIS bride lost in adultery and disobedience to HIS will and commands.

wwjd now, we all understand the emotional torrent that you may be feeling. We all understand how crazy this time is. We all understand how hard it is to "think clearly and rationally" when your emotions are boiling.

wwjd now, Here is the "bottom line" for both you and you wife...."If you love me, obey my commands." That is JESUS speaking to you. So, do you truly love Jesus?

God bless.

<small>[ February 14, 2005, 05:08 AM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

ForeverHers,

I have been a Christian since college. I know not acting like someone with morals or ethics at times. I am ashamed of that. I am a sinner and God has forgiven me. I am learning from my mistakes so that I do not make them again. I want to bring glory to God in what I do, individually and in my marriage.

I am ashamed of what I did. None of it was okay or justified. I wish the story was made up or someone else's story. Unfortunately, it is not. The pain I have caused my kids, wife and I is tremendous. I wish I could erase the memories and make it go away, but I will forever live with the consequences of my bad choices. Either believe my story or not. Do not know how I could otherwise convince you. And yes, I told my family about my unfaithfulness in the whole sage.

I agree I am confused right now. I do not know whether to Plan A or B or what. I have moved out to a 3 month lease in an apt. I am seeing the kids and wife often. I spent most of Frid, Sat and Sun with the kids. I went out to dinner with all of them last night at wife's invite.

I told her I want us to seek therapy and work on our marriage. We both agree and are. But she has not even gone a full 2 weeks with no contact yet. And she has talked the talk before - for 3 years, but not walked it.

What am I to do? I am still here. I have not filed for divorce. But is it wrong for me to ask her to prove that it is really over this time?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What am I to do? I am still here. I have not filed for divorce. But is it wrong for me to ask her to prove that it is really over this time? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">wwjd now - First let me assure you that I do believe you. I also believe that this is a very stressful and confusing time for both of you.

That you have both agreed to counseling is GOOD. Let me emphasize that it should be with a TRAINED Christian counselor.

Now, turning to your question "is it wrong for me to ask her to prove that it is really over this time?" Of course it's not wrong. No Contact and ending an affair is required. But the question I asked is WHAT would constitute "proof" that it's "really over" to you?

There were several questions that I asked in the previous post that were not answered. You don't have to answer them, but I do want you to think about them and, at the very least, take the issues to God in prayer for His wisdom and direction.

Okay, let's talk a little bit about what's "practical" right now:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> agree I am confused right now. I do not know whether to Plan A or B or what. I have moved out to a 3 month lease in an apt. I am seeing the kids and wife often. I spent most of Frid, Sat and Sun with the kids. I went out to dinner with all of them last night at wife's invite.

I told her I want us to seek therapy and work on our marriage. We both agree and are. But she has not even gone a full 2 weeks with no contact yet. And she has talked the talk before - for 3 years, but not walked it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No question that Plan A, not Plan B, is in order. Being ashamed is good, that is God's conviction upon your heart. Now take that and make positive changes that bring you to a closer walk with God in humble obedience. Surrender your will to God's will and, even if it's tough or you don't feel like doing it, DO what God is commanding. TRUST God at this time, not yourself or your wife. WAIT on the the Lord's timing, and don't get too impatient. There is MUCH that needs "fixing" in both your life and your wife's life. It will take a willing surrender on both of your parts.

Learn what Plan A is. Learn what Emotional needs are. They are very practical things that you can do that WILL hasten change and healing.

You have a lease on an apartment. USE it as a place for you and your wife to have some heartfelt talks away from the kids. This is hard, but it is "soul baring time." This is acknowledging what a mess you've both made of your marriage before God, family, friends, everyone, and understanding that all that nothwithstanding, it is NOT fatal. You are both poised now to become wonderful examples of the healing power of God upon the lives of surrendered believers. Forgiveness, as God forgives us, is a lesson that you are both going to learn, and, in turn, are going to be a living example of to others, especially your children.

God IS the Master Potter. He IS going to take the crushed and shattered shards of clay that are your individual lives and your marriage and He is going to fashion a new vessel of the old clay that will bring honor and glory to Him. Yes, it's going to take time. It won't be completed overnight. But you are going to be amazed at the changes when you look back at this time a year or two from now.

Begin daily devotions with your wife. It only takes a couple of minutes, but you may be very surprised at the benefits you both reap from you beginning to fulfill your role as "spiritual head of your household." There are many good devotional books you can get. One that I would recommend is [i]On Holy Ground[i] by Dr. Charles Stanley.

If you would like some suggestions of good counselors in your area, let me know and I'll provide you a link to a national Christian counseling organization.

wwjd now, take Christ's hand and let Him lead you through this. Follow Him in humble obedience and when things seem overwhelming or too much, lean on His promise in Philippians 4:13.

You DO NOT have to do this alone. Stand tall, brother, we are all forgiven sinners in Christ Jesus....and thank God for that.

God bless.

<small>[ February 15, 2005, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

FH,

Thank you for your encouragement and hope.

We both talked to Steve Harley last week and are going to speak with him again on Thursday. W saw a Christian psychiatrist last week recommended through our church.

Your recommendation of Charles Stanley's devotional is a God thing. I have a close association with Dr. Stanley's ministry, so I will definitely buy the book, for me and my wife. I was trying to lead us in devotionals months ago, but her initial interest waned. Probably b/c it brought up to many feelings of guilt and shame.

I agree. Plan B does not make much sense at this point, even though I have moved out. She is talking the talk, I hope she is walking it truly this time. Time will tell.

Thanks FH and please pray for us!

FH,

One more thing. She had said last week she would change her #s and email address. But last night I asked her about why she had not yet.

She said she said that when she was trying to convince me to come home, but now that I had an apt....well you get where it lead. She said it has been 10 days since NC with OM. But I just feel like she is leaving the door open by not eliminating OM's access to her. What do you think?

I do not want to LB and demand. But it seems like she is playing a game.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She said it has been 10 days since NC with OM. But I just feel like she is leaving the door open by not eliminating OM's access to her. What do you think? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Fog. That's what I think.

Unsure at this point.

Still not ready to obey God regardless of how one feels.

It's early. Focus on the counseling for now.

Good advice. W and I spoke with MC today - agreed that it is still too early to tell. She is saying all the right things, but her actions are what matter at this point. Will she walk the talk?

MC is providing clear assignments to us both. Focusing on healing each other wounds first. MC shares my concern that she has not yet changed #s and emails. Says I need to lay low and let him push the issue. Does not want me coming across as the controlling husband.

Though it is hard and I worry about the kids, I do think separation of her and I is what is required right now. She needs to bring herself to take responsibility for her own actions, past, present and future.