OK… OK… OK… here is the lowdown on the second session. <P>I do find Steve Harley to be very perceptive…<P>He clearly keys into the following (in my situation)…<BR><OL TYPE=1> <BR><LI> I have a reserve of patience that few can exceed (I'm not sure if this is a compliment)<BR><LI> He believes me when I say… OM will eventually abandon my W… (OM will !)<BR><LI> He believes my W will come back to me after OM abandonment (after a very deep depression)<BR><LI> He believes I can follow that <B>VERY</B> narrow path… from what I shown in my faith.<BR><LI> He believes I can stay focused… no matter what the outside world heaps upon me.<BR></OL><BR>Because all of this… I should not be in Plan B!<P>He started off comparing "romantic" vs. "caring" love… and my focus is to allow my W to see there is still "romantic" love available to and through me.<P>It is up to me… NOT MY WIFE!<P>I have to change many concepts of "level of fairness"…<BR>He did recognize the "legal"/"divorce" issues are the <B>one</B> exception… protection of children is paramount!<BR>But… I am still on a team… I <B>AM</B> STILL MARRIED… I STILL HAVE MY WIFE!<P>OK guys… this is something you didn't want to hear…<P>He asked me the question… "Would you be a <B>door mat</B> for 3 months if you'd get $3,000,000 at the end?"<BR>He knew what my answer would be…<BR>Yes… and now as I type this I ask myself… didn't Jesus accept a position lower than a doormat, up on the cross?…<BR>I have my cross to bear… If I really want my reward… yes… I will be the "doormat" for Christ.<BR>When others… family… friends… and yes some of you here on the forum… tell me (or others) that…"Oh,…you have to keep up you self esteem", "Don't let her trample on you.", etc… That I need to stop and recognize that that would be against my Plan A. I need from you (here at the forum) words of motivation for me to stay focused on Plan A.<P>He recommends that my prayers be for "clarity" of my W's mind… and for me "patience and focus".<BR>He says for me to rely on other vessels of the Lord to bring God's message to my Wife… I am not to bring it to her in her present state.<P>I feel that I just spoken to a angel asking me to believe that my struggle will be rewarded by my Savior, in his measure not mine. <BR>I feel I have been asked to continue the "giver" I've been for his glory. <BR>I feel I will need all your prayers, and words not of my self-esteem… but for my esteem in the Lord. <P>I'll add a little more… later on…<BR>But for me it is a more fervent Plan A… <BR>If all of you would have helped me going into Plan B… help me more to stay in Plan A.<BR>I need to join (you) Chris… for the long haul.<P>Thank you friends… <BR>Taking kids out to eat… first time in a month and a half.<P>Working hard to save this marriage, <BR>Jim

Jim, You're more than welcome to join me. However I pray you don't have to spend as much time here as I have.<P>A doormat? It's not that bad. In my case it's total ignoration (as in ignore. is that a word?)<P>Grab on & let's go buddy!<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

I'm with you too, Jim. Let's all us doormats hang together!! Thank you so much for sharing this with us. After you posted your first session, I really started thinking. I have never felt comfortable sending that Plan B letter, because I have always felt deep down that my H is in trouble. By sending that letter, I would be in effect abandoning him. <P>I am certain that my H is suffering from depression, & that is what led up to the affair. I tried so very hard to get him some help. I just could not believe how the medical community just sloughed it off. I feel like I am walking such a fine line. He needs his space, yet I feel like I should still be trying to get him some help. It really bothers me that he wrote something to the effect that "his life is going to hell" in my Christmas card. <P>My sisters think he is just trying to manipulate me. You are right in that it's so hard to stay focused & know what to do when you're constantly getting messages about being a doormat, etc. After awhile, you begin to believe there IS something wrong with you to be putting up with it. H had a medical doctor tell him that my reaction (being so upset, yet willing to try to reconcile) could mean that I'm using H as a crutch. Even his "therapist" was negative and told him that it was very unlikely we would be able to get past all the pain and damage.<P>It's so very hard when we have so many factors, and people working against us.<P>This is going to be a real test of our strength. We need to all stick together here on MB. You can definitely count on me.

Jim,<P>I needed this session as much as you. please share the rest when you are back!!!!!<P>Sidney, <P>You hit the nail for me. I have been depressed all afternoon, again. I actually got in the bed - this is VERY unusual for me. I had gone to the library and got His Needs/Her Needs and The Giver/taker - two more Harley books. I slept a little and read some. My friend called and I started crying on the phone...I AM SICK TO DEATH OF CRYING, SO WHY DON"T I STOP??????<P>Anyway, she is talking o me and tells me the handwriting is on the wall and I just refuse to read it.<P>I am feeling torn and confused. I come to the forum and believe this. Then I listen to my friends and what they say makes sense, too. I was believing my H when he said we were heading for divorce and then the next day comes over and says he isn't ready and doesn't want one now.<P>I have no idea what to believe and what to do, anymore.<P>BUT< I do believe my H is "sick", in the context you wrote about. I think the "abandonment" issue is there for me, too. I will stick with this for awhile more....<P>WE all need a ton of prayers...<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Jim,<BR>I'm behind you all the way. I have been a doormat for 10 years and will be that way until I decide I've had enough. My husband may not be living with us but we still love him. And he is in trouble. He's an alcoholic and very self destructive. I will be here for him until I just can't take it anymore. I love him. And I when I say prayers for my H and our family, I will remember to include you.<BR>

Hey NSR,<P>thank you for sharing that with me.<P>I'm going to do some more serious thinking about my situation, and try to ascertain which direction I should be heading in.<P>Your words give me strength, and because I can relate to them, I feel that maybe I shouldn't give up.<P>You have been through so much, yet you have never given up. I admire you so much for that.<P>If plan A is where you want to be (or continue with), I will give you my 100% support. My unconditional support.<P>You must always do what is right for you, and your W. We all love you here, but maybe our words, actions, decisions and judgements are sometimes clouded by our own situations - unintentionally of course.<P>As for being a doormat, the way I look at it is this.<BR>Doormats have a purpose in life - some would say not a very big purpose, BUT big things often come from what seem to be little things.<BR>I happen to think that none of us here are being used as doormats. Our spouses do have their heads up their butts (just love that expression ...), they are confused, dazed and crazy, but we know them for the people that they really are. I know for one that my H NEVER treated me as a doormat. I would bet money that most of the other spouses here didn't either. It was give and take for us, and that does not make me a doormat when I gave in to him, or vice versa.<P>You are showing your W unconditional love, and unconditional caring at the moment by what you are doing. You are not being a doormat. The only person who can say that you are being used as a doormat is you. If you don't feel that way, then it mustn't be so.<P>That is so deep for me at this time of the morning - and after a big night out too....<P>My H has the children down in Melb. so I have 2 weeks of allowable adult behaviour!!!<P>Anyway, I hope I haven't rambled on too much - I wanted you to know that I'm here, thinking of you, and praying for you.<BR>And supporting you.<P>Take care Jim, we will all be better people for this revolting experience.<P>Big hugs<P>Jo<P>

Jim,<BR>Thanks for sharing the information from your sessions. This gives me HOPE when I need it the most! I haven't looked into therapy with the Harley's yet, and I was just curious how you set up your appointments, are these phone sessions and is it very expensive?<P>Thanks again for sharing the info, hope you had a nice dinner with the kids!<P>Darlene<BR>

Jim<P>I still don't know what I think... <P>You are a wonderful man full of hope and so open to work on your marriage. I respect that!! You're one of the good guys!!<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>Broken heart, broken promises, broken spirit... let me rest!

NSR:<P>I agree with you and Harley about the doormat statement.. Many times, I had to bite my tongue and many times, my pride told me to get the heck out of the marriage, you deserve better.. But you keyed in on something very important... This is not going to get where you want it on your time,, it will be Gods time... You are going to suffer a great deal, just as Jesus did....... I suffered too.. and it was the hardest thing I have ever done.. But as Dr. Harley put it, I am now experiencing the 3,000,000 reward.....and it was well worth it.. In difficult times such as these, one day seems like 1 yr.. And you want the nightmare to end now,, you want your pain to end now....... well,, now can be tomorrow or a lot closer than you think.. Take each day one at a time,,,<P>Harley's principles work.. you have to trust in them and most of all Trust God...<P>You seem to have a great perspective.. Please do not listen to your friends.. I had to quit talking to mine, because they did not understand.. Until they have walked a mile in our shoes, they will never even begin to understand infidelity, and what it does to you... They dont have a clue.. Just as I didnt have a clue until it happend to me.. I was always the one to say if my h ever cheated, I was gone.. Well,,, believe me.. most people say that, but when it happens to them, the majority of the people change their minds..<P>Keep up the good work.. God Bless

You know… I was hoping Steve Harley was going to talk to me as say… "Oh yeah… go to Plan B"… just to relieve me of the "work" I would need to do in Plan A… <B>HE DIDN'T!!!</B> He is being my conscience (that angel I mentioned earlier)… and is keeping me to my cross! God… if you're speaking through Steve to me… you are a hard God… but one that knows that the "right path" for me to take isn't always easy… maybe that is the love I need to show to Him… <P>I went to a funeral mass today (for an old friend's mom… cancer… died Christmas Eve.) During the homily… the priest said "the one thing we will have to show for ourselves when we die… is what we did to be a friend in Christ… not what our intentions were…". The proof is in <B>me</B> doing… not just wishing!<P>---------------------------------------<P>I promised a follow-up for additional comments that Steve Harley gave to me… <BR>I hope it help you all… or least spur some thinking on your situations.<P>As far as the issue of the 2 types of love "romantic" and "caring"… I need to focus on "romantic" only… To build back that <B>passion</B>… is something I cannot lose sight of! That love is <B>VERY</B> conditional as was the process of falling in love… and it(fulfilling emotional needs=process) needs to continue throughout the marriage! Love just <B><I>appears</I></B> unconditional when the Love Bank is <B>SO</B> high with deposits… but in the reality, the Love Bank can drain and makes that romantic love fully conditional!<P>When I said "It is up to me… NOT MY WIFE!"… what I was referring to was my responsibility to know her needs and meet them… Steve brought up the "food for thought" article <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8503_fft.html" TARGET=_blank>But no one told me! (by Steve)</A> and said… "if I don't know what her needs are right now… <B><I>trial and error</I></B> is always available as a minimum… and if that's all I can do now… so be it… <B>do it</B>. He also said the "feelings"(her feelings) are not a choice… it is an end result of my efforts… that's why <I>it's up to me…</I> Deposits into my Love Bank can only come from her… Deposits into her Love Bank can only come from me. So, for Plan A to be truly effective… I have to make deposits… even if it is by trial and error! Whewwwhhhh!<P>Plan A must, <B>without any doubt on her part</B>, let her know that there is a "safe" environment for her to come back to. Consistency of my actions are most important. Damaging a good track record of Plan A can be done in as little as one day of Love Busting. What my Wife remembers is the most recent actions before Plan B. Plan B has to have a seamless transition from Plan A, because once I'm in Plan B there is <B>no more laying down a foundation</B>.<P>In my situation… I just need to stay around long enough for the affair to die… or for her to come to her senses… <B>I just have to be around!</B> Roll with visitation changes… play by her rules (to an extent)… and of course let the kids know why!<P>The issue of "level of fairness" is something that is too easy to be <B>sucked into</B>. It would be easy to "act like I'm single"… <B>Don't do it</B>!<BR>Act like I'm married!… The team is not dissolved yet!<BR>The <B>doormat</B> issue should be a non-issue! My self-respect, and esteem rebuilding can be worked on later… I have the rest of my life to do that! (Something to <B>really</B>think about… huh?)<P>Here's another toughy… "You have no rights when your married"… if you believe in divorce as <B>not being an option!</B> The taker cannot take over in Plan A! Steve said… at divorce time… if during Plan A I keep my self-respect, and esteem as the most important issues… that I "stood up for myself"… the judge will say "good for you… now you're single!" Of course I am much closer to that "judge's word" than many of you.<P>Yes… I will do (to the best of my ability) the <B>pure</B> Plan A that Steve recommends.<BR>When I post to you… I will recommend likewise.<BR>When thoughts and feelings <B>overwhelm me</B> (yes, think it has for some of you) then it is time to transition (in that seamless way) into Plan B… but so far my Plan A just wasn't <B>pure</B> enough!<P>And now… for the next few hours I have to respond to my attorney about the "notice of motion" my wife filed… God… please help!<P>Friends… I know you'll be there for me… <P>Thank you dear, dear friends… <P>Jim<P>Replies to your replies…<P><B>Chris</B>…<BR>Something tells me you've heard this before…<BR>I hope I can ignore the verbal abuse… "ignoration" sounds good about now! <BR>I grabbing on… this ride is h@!!<P><B>sidney</B>…<BR>That "fine line" <B>is</B> the "narrow path"…<BR>My Wife's depression does bother me… but it may eventually bring her back… when she bottoms out.<BR>I am honored to have you help me in this "pure" Plan A… <BR>And, I'll be there for you too!<P><B>Desiree</B>…<BR>Steve does say that I have to avoid those that don't understand the "pure" Plan A…<BR>It is soooooooo easy to get sucked into "of course <B>I</B> deserve better".<BR>I will look for support here… and I will get it! <BR>Prayers, prayers, and more prayers for all of us!<P><B>Mitzi</B>…<BR>You are so faith filled… I love you… my 'neighbor'! <P><B>Jo</B>…<BR>I really appreciate you <B>unconditonal</B> support <BR>My wife rarely treated me as a "doormat" before the affair.<BR>I wish there was another, less derogatory word for "doormat".<P><B>Darlene</B>…<BR>To set up session you just call 1 (888) 639-1639 see…<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html" TARGET=_blank> Scheduling an Appointment</A> and the fees $85 for 45-50 minutes session at…<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7015_fee.html" TARGET=_blank> Fees for Counseling Services </A><BR>If you're confused about where you are… where to be… it's a good idea.<BR>The first session is mostly information gathering for Steve… the second (you'll need at least 2) gets into his real recommendations.. I have no immediate plans for a third!<BR>Good Luck to you! <P><B>Sheryl</B>…<BR>After you read the above… you may say to yourself… "I still don't know what I think..." a little more. <BR>This "pure Plan A" seems so much harder than what I've been saying about the difficulty of Plan B!<BR>But I am going to accept it…<P><B>Mickey65</B>…<BR>You have no idea how good it is to hear from someone in recovery. [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]<BR>Someone who has followed that "narrow path"…<BR>Thank you, thank you, thank you… for the encouragement. [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited December 29, 1999).]

NSR:<P>I'm glad that you're getting some good out of this. Steve truly is a great coach and motivator, and this strategy can save your marriage.<P>I'm glad that you put such a great spin on the "doormat" issue---I've gotten tired of battling that one!<P>

Jim,<P>Thanks for posting the second half of the second session. This is very similar to what Steve told me.<P>The major points are this:<P>* Most of us are not doing as good a Plan A as we THINK we are. We are attempting to meet our needs and our S's needs, but it the way WE think we should, not the wat THEY think we should. Hence, we mis the mark for all our efforts.<P>* We struggle between meeting our own needs vs. meeting their needs with nothing in return. We struggle against those that do not understandwho try to undermine our efforts. We struggle against ourselves and our own "self-esteem". <P>I think Steve's analogy about the 3 mos of door-mat for $3 M is a great one and a great way to look at this and be able to maintain yourself through PlanA.<P>I am searching myself here, Jim. I asked myself a couple questions and they are probably pertinent to you, too:<P>If I continue Plan A for a while longer, what do I have to lose?<BR> A: Nothing else, because I have no H right now and nothing "cooking" in our relationship. So, in essence, I won't be any WORSE off than I am right now a few more months down the road.<P>If I continue Plan A for a while longer, what do I have to gain?<BR> A: Two things: One is to establish a friendly and better relationship with my H in the event we end up divorced. The other is to establish a friendly and better relationship with my H in the event he decides I am a better choice than the OW. He couldn't even begin to think this about me in my recent demanding, angry, hurt and depressed state. How on earth could I be more appealling than the oW who is nothing but pure fun for him??? <P>Jim, We will have to support each other through this. I know I am getting short on patience and discouraged and I'm probably the one you mentioned needing to go to PlanB soon. I should be GRATEFUL that my H doesn't want a D right now, as so many of you are in the process. I just really NEED some sign from him that I should continue to try to be here. Maybe his telling me last week that he doesn't want a divorce from me is ths "sign" and I'm missing the cues....?<P>Praying for you by name....<P>Desiree <BR><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

<B>K</B>...<BR>I first thought your replies to me on Love Busting were going beyond the realm of being reasonable (hurting my self-esteem). I was wrong... I too, will try to put the right spin on the Plan A "doormat issue" for others... and take burden off of you!<P><B>Desiree</B><BR>I do belive there are those out there (and some in the forum) who already have self-esteems that are so low... this form of Plan A is just too hard to do. If their self-esteem is completely shot... they can't give anymore to their spouses... I know I'm not there yet... I don't think you are either. Of course overtime... when those love units get withdrawn... even for you or me... (even with all the self-esteem in the world)... we will have to go to Plan B.<P>Your right... I have one big problem looming... the divorce. One thing that <B><I>this</I></B> kind of Plan A does... is that it allows my W to potentially consider slowing the divorce down too. It doesn't help with the motion I have to file on... but if I <B>give</B> as much as possible... it has the best chance of slowing down this awful divorce process.<P>I'm going to give you all the encouragement and support I can too! Take that sign from your H about <B>not</B> wanting the divorce... and cling to it!!! Once the divorce process kicks in... everything becomes harder!<P>Jim

Desiree,<P>Yes, you should definitely interpret his not wanting a divorce as a positive sign!! He is STILL conflicted. He obviously still cares about you. All this is very good. You just need to stay the course and be patient. As hard as that is. Lord knows, I know what you are going through, and what you are feeling. Just keep reminding yourself that your H has lost his way, & it will take him some time to find his way back to you. He is NOT doing this to intentionally hurt you. He is lost. If you haven't already, I would highly recommend getting on some anti-deps. I really think they have saved my life, not to mention my sanity. The other thing I keep focusing on is I know my H isn't happy. Your H isn't either. Don't fall into the trap of believing he's having a great time. He isn't. He's tried to tell you he can simply 'compartmentalize' it. It's not true. It's just another symptom of his illness. He's trying to delude himself. Here's my Email address if you'd like to correspond-- skibears12@aol.com. I'd be happy to help you as much as I can.

NSR, <P>You can’t believe how timely it has been to read of your sessions. I’ve printed all of the comments so that I can highlight and reread the important points. Your situation is different but I’m getting much insight from your sessions. <P>I’ve been Plan A’ing really well since mid-September. I discovered my wife’s 6+ month affair in June. Occasionally my thoughts included setting the wheels in motion to go to Plan B, especially after the first of the year. My wife lives at home but still works with the coworker. Contact has not been physical since discovery but she can’t decide where she wants to be. Very few people know of our crisis. <P>Even though I know that I’m much better off with my wife at home I get frustrated at the length of time it is taking her to decide to give up that other relationship and work on our marriage. I do believe however that she has seen some changes in me and our home life that have been good. We are seeing a counselor who calls her “ a work in progress.” Both she and the counselor note that it is her issues that we are dealing with, not me or how I treated the marriage.<P>It must be difficult to do Plan A when she’s not around. I admire your persistence. <P>You have given me hope that I am doing the right thing in dealing with this in this manner. Heck, in the past 10+ days I’ve seen changes in her from where we were recently :<P>&#61623; My wife has told me that she loves me before I said that I love her.<BR>&#61623; She said that “this spring will be different than this past fall when talking about some things that I was struggling with.”<BR>&#61623; I have been able to touch her more recently than anytime in the previous 5+ months.<BR>&#61623; She is much more touching of me and sleeps very close to me during the night.<P>The little things really do mean a lot when you’re looking for the silver lining in gray clouds.<P>The comments on zero lovebusters and the doormat are very enlightening. I know I’ve gotten very good at not lovebusting. Taking a few moments for myself (I find drive time to and from work a good thinking time), and journalizing have been very helpful. These things have helped me to realize that my wife is not herself right now and that it is my job to bring her back. I’m willing to try anything, do everything, and suffer as long as I need to, in order to help her and save my family. A tradeoff of a few months of pain for me is worth a lifetime of stability and happiness for my wife, our boys, and me. <P>I know it all takes time. I found out in June and the nearly 28 weeks, (not that I’m counting, ha!), seems like forever. I keep going back to the SAA book that notes that an affair typically dies a natural death within 6 months to two years of seeing the light of day. While it seems like forever we’re just falling into the normal timeframe. Your situation has proceeded quickly to where it is. One of the things I read is that it is important to slow down the process whenever possible in order to give everyone a chance to realize what is going on. <P>Thanks so much for sharing you information with all of us. We all need to keep reminding ourselves that it is our job to save our marriage right now, and that is probably the most important job we ever undertake. Though we don’t feel like it we are the sane partner in this whole mess. One of the biggest needs of our spouse right now is to not be pushed, and it is our job to give them the time they need to get through this crisis. We need to provide emotional support and as much care as they will allow us to give as we wait for the cloud to lift. <P>Best of luck with all you are dealing with and thanks for sharing with all the other members of the club no one wants to join. <P> <BR>

NSR, <P>You can’t believe how timely it has been to read of your sessions. I’ve printed all of the comments so that I can highlight and reread the important points. Your situation is different but I’m getting much insight from your sessions. <P>I’ve been Plan A’ing really well since mid-September. I discovered my wife’s 6+ month affair in June. Occasionally my thoughts included setting the wheels in motion to go to Plan B, especially after the first of the year. My wife lives at home but still works with the coworker. Contact has not been physical since discovery but she can’t decide where she wants to be. Very few people know of our crisis. <P>Even though I know that I’m much better off with my wife at home I get frustrated at the length of time it is taking her to decide to give up that other relationship and work on our marriage. I do believe however that she has seen some changes in me and our home life that have been good. We are seeing a counselor who calls her “ a work in progress.” Both she and the counselor note that it is her issues that we are dealing with, not me or how I treated the marriage.<P>It must be difficult to do Plan A when she’s not around. I admire your persistence. <P>You have given me hope that I am doing the right thing in dealing with this in this manner. Heck, in the past 10+ days I’ve seen changes in her from where we were recently :<P>&#61623; My wife has told me that she loves me before I said that I love her.<BR>&#61623; She said that “this spring will be different than this past fall when talking about some things that I was struggling with.”<BR>&#61623; I have been able to touch her more recently than anytime in the previous 5+ months.<BR>&#61623; She is much more touching of me and sleeps very close to me during the night.<P>The little things really do mean a lot when you’re looking for the silver lining in gray clouds.<P>The comments on zero lovebusters and the doormat are very enlightening. I know I’ve gotten very good at not lovebusting. Taking a few moments for myself (I find drive time to and from work a good thinking time), and journalizing have been very helpful. These things have helped me to realize that my wife is not herself right now and that it is my job to bring her back. I’m willing to try anything, do everything, and suffer as long as I need to, in order to help her and save my family. A tradeoff of a few months of pain for me is worth a lifetime of stability and happiness for my wife, our boys, and me. <P>I know it all takes time. I found out in June and the nearly 28 weeks, (not that I’m counting, ha!), seems like forever. I keep going back to the SAA book that notes that an affair typically dies a natural death within 6 months to two years of seeing the light of day. While it seems like forever we’re just falling into the normal timeframe. Your situation has proceeded quickly to where it is. One of the things I read is that it is important to slow down the process whenever possible in order to give everyone a chance to realize what is going on. <P>Thanks so much for sharing you information with all of us. We all need to keep reminding ourselves that it is our job to save our marriage right now, and that is probably the most important job we ever undertake. Though we don’t feel like it we are the sane partner in this whole mess. One of the biggest needs of our spouse right now is to not be pushed, and it is our job to give them the time they need to get through this crisis. We need to provide emotional support and as much care as they will allow us to give as we wait for the cloud to lift. <P>Best of luck with all you are dealing with and thanks for sharing with all the other members of the club no one wants to join. <P> <BR>

NSR....Thank you so much for sharing your 2nd session w/us. It was very insightful and put things into my head that I wouldn't have even considered. Steve must really have sensed some very positive things in your marriage to still suggest Plan A. You have so much patience that I admire you for it. Best of luck in your revised Plan A.

Jim,<P>What advice, If any, did Steve give you about slowing down the divorce? When is it slated to be final? Are you supposed to mention to your W that you would like to slow things down? Just curious about that part.<P>Jim and Sidney,<P>OK, I got a sign and that is what I should be clinging to, to sustain me for a while. H told me when I last saw him on Wed. a week ago that he would call me and nothing so far. As much as I tell myself not to...I anticipate and wait and expect...and then get disappoointed and discouraged I have got to do better.<P>sidney, <P>Yes, if I can't shake this doldrum, I will need the anti-depressants for sure. I think this is just holiday-tizzy and will be better soon. I am not depressed this morning, but feel sluggish - maybe that is mild depression...I don't know. I am going to get off-line in a bit and work on homework and then going to a movie this afternoon with friends. <P>Thanks for the e-mail address. I will e-mail you later, because I think we can really help each other, too. I am anxious to hear from Diana today as she is supposed to get home today. Have you heard anything?<P>Jim, <P>You are strong and I am strong, too. I guess I am going through a period of being tired and that makes you forget you are truly strong and can face anything and just KNOW in your heart that you will survive and be happy again no matter what the outcome of all of this.<P>Still praying for us all...<P>Desiree<P>P.S. How do you guys get the bold and the italics in your posts?????<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Jim,<BR>I think I'm losing my faith. I've been crying since about 11pm last night. I just can't quit. My H left me with all the responsibilities and the only one he seems to have is to give me money. Sometimes I feel like giving up.<BR>

In the submission of our souls to a cause greater than our own happiness, we will find true purification such as few people obtain. To be a "doormat" not to our spouses, but to the will of God is the greatest sacrifice we can make.<P>It is for our love for the for the Lord, our spouses, and ourselves that we become subservient to a noble set of values rather than the worldly ethics and morals that society has thrown in our faces.<P>There can be no shame in following Christ's example. Humility can be our salvation where it concerns our marriages. Admitting our own human shortcomings, forgiving ourselves and our spouses, and finally being able to love unconditionally...truly UNCONDITIONALLY...this is our success.<P>Good luck to you Jim!! <P>Good luck to us all...May we find the peace we truly deserve.<P>Peter