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My husband is in a master's program that meets once a week at night. There were several evenings last semester where he stayed late after class was over. This morning I found the following e-mails that my husband sent to a classmate:

after class was just like i imagined!
no worries about complications.
your thoughts?
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i don't think you understand just how much i'm aching for you ... when can i see you?
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You and I must set aside some "one on one" time too. Obviously, I talking
about some "you on me" time, if you get what I'm sayin'.
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Hey, baby -
Enjoy ... have fun searching for the not so subliminal message! I'll call you tonight ... unless you want to hear my voice again beforehand!
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MI AMORE … I JUST CAN’T STOP THINKING ABOUT YOU!!! HARD AS I TRY, I JUST CAN’T REEL HER IN!!!
BUT GOOD THINGS TO THOSE WHO WAIT!!! AND I GOT NOTHIN’ BUT TIME!!!

These e-mails span a period of time from Sept 2004 to January 2005. I don't know if there were more, but these were the ones I was able to find in his sent folder.

I have met the woman in question, as my husband introduced us at a Christmas party. So this morning I went to the OW's office and asked her nicely to tell me what was going on and to please be truthful. She was confused and didn't understand and then when I showed her the e-mails she said oh, he was just joking and flirting around. More conversation and she did tell me that David talked to her about us and she advised him what he needed to help out more at home (as I had been wanting him to do). But other than flirting there was NOTHING going on. She even said that she was not attracted to him. I wanted to believe her.

So then I go to my husband's office who has no idea that I went to the OW's office and gave him a folder of the e-mails with an attached note that the marriage was over. He came home shortly after and he said the were just jokes, they were just flirting around. Told the same story that OW did. Did they corroborate their stories in the 30 minutes it took me to get home from her office? He was on the phone for about 15 minutes after I left her office. There was alot of discussion, about OW, us, our marriage, why he sent the e-mails and he stood firm that he was just joking/flirting and admits that it was wrong and what it looks like. The conversation was calm, not angry and we both agreed to work on the marriage.

But how does someone say "I'm aching for you, when can I see you" to another woman and I'm supposed to believe that he was only flirting.

Things in our marriage had been up and down during the period that the e-mails were sent and I can recognize my part in it and can work on correcting my behaviors. But how am I supposed to believe him? Would anyone else believe their spouse if they found this kind of evidence? I am not ready to throw the towel in on the marriage even if I found out that something did happen. I want to correct what went wrong so it won't happen again. But I don't feel like I can move forward if I don't know the truth.

What would you do, keep pressing or believe him?

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Sorry, didnt mean to post

<small>[ February 24, 2005, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: biscuit ]</small>

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Though I may not be the best person here to answer you, I wanted you to know that somebody here has seen your post. How you must be thinking and feeling?! I'm glad you found us but sorry for why you are here.

Sure sounds like a PA to me. You do have emails which prove something was going on. I've heard enough on this board to understand that they will DENY, DENY, DENY! If in fact something is going on like the emails strongly suggest, you will have to dig deeper and get as much evidence as you can now that they know you are on to them. This may prove more difficult now. Are their any friends, colleagues, etc. you can talk to? Do you know if OW is married? If so, her H has a right to know. Can you talk to the professor?

Please give us as much background info as you can since the more you give us, the more we can help you.

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Hi Goodwifey,

I remember you from the emotional needs forum, when you posted about missing Viagra pills.

I guess reading that thread and this current one, I would think that he is having an affair. If not yet physical, probably emotional. Did you ever get a good answer on the missing Viagra pills, are you still keeping count? Have any more come up missing since you posted back then?

What does your gut tell you?

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Well. If that is just joking around, its horrifying none the less.
That is totally unacceptable and boundary crossing for 'joking'.

Talk it out with him given both scenarios (joking or to be taken literally as fact)

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rdl, that's funny that you remember me from the viagra thread. There are still 3 pills in the bottle and I did ask him about the missing pills later and he said he took 1 one night and then 2 other night to see if it would work better. I can't exactly be sure of the exact time frame, as I was not paying close enough attention at the time. But that is what raised the red flag for me. Emotionally things may have been up and down for us during this time, but the sex was always good. Nothing has been going on recently, just the general gut feeling. But we did have a big fight over the weekend about my funk (I was stressing over work) and he said he was tired of it and ready to call it quits that he didn't want to be with me anymore. This is the first time in 16 years he has ever said anything like that to me so I started thinking/worrying again.

Again, most of his time is accounted for. Goes to work, comes home for lunch and then again at 5:00. Does not have a car with him most days as he walks to work. So the oppurtunity to get out/meet up with her would be limited.

But why, oh why would he say those things to her?
He claims she's a guy's girl and you can say those kind of things to her. But I don't know any woman who would not take offense to those type of comments if there was nothing there or who wouldn't take those comments seriously there is there was interest.

But if he wanted out, why wouldn't he admit to it then?

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From what I understand the above e-mails are what he sent her. You do not have any e-mails from her to him. From what is written in the above e-mails it seems your husband is pursuing this women. It is obvious from the e-mail that he is interested in her. Do you know if she returns his interest?

Is the women married? If so I would let her husband know that you husband has been sending her inappropriate e-mails. If her husband knew he could watch for things from his side, and maybe help prevent things from going farther.

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No she is not married. She had just gotten out of a 7 year relationship when they started talking in September.

More later...

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No I could not find any e-mails that she may have sent to him. Maybe he had the commen sense to delete those. He kept saying he had nothing to hide, otherwise he would have made sure they were deleted.

I asked him if he would take a lie dectector test and he immediately said yes, but then got annoyed when he thought I was serious. He couldn't believe I would take it that far, but he said he would do it. But I think I will follow-up with it and schedule and appointment and see if he continues to get annoyed.

I told him tonight that I was not leaving, he was not leaving that we could work on this but I needed to know the truth. He admitted that he was attracted to her but it never went any further than that. But innocent flirting would be, you are so cute, that outfit looks good on you, you are sexy, you have a great smile...not "I ache for you, when can I see you".

Nothing innocent about that. But he is holding to his story. So if I don't do anything about the lie dectector test, I have to believe him and move forward. Very hard to do.

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How much longer before he completes his masters program? Are they always in the same classes? Is the only place he has contact with her at school, or are they also in contact thru work?

I don't think it would be asking to much, to ask him to avoid classes she would be in. He admits he is attracted to her, and flirting with her. Although he calls it "innocent flirting" most people would say he is "hitting on her".

In any case she is a distraction to your marriage. How does he feel about avoiding contact with her, to show respect to you and your marriage?

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GOODWIFEY,

Wow, your story sounds very familiar. Sorry that we meet in such circumstances.
However, I had some questionable email communications between my H and a colleague at work, which were flirtatious in nature with similar sentiments like yours.

Since this was a second set of suspicious emails I had grown wiser and PATIENT. I did my own independent investigations before confronting him with the emails.

My method though not convectional and may have been unethical, but if that was what it takes to know the truth; I would do whatever it takes to find the ABSOLUTE truth before I throw in the towel. The investigations revealed that there was nothing going on beyond the emails, although the emails were obviously flirtatious in nature with explicit use of words such as romance, you are special, do I make you think of things you do not want to think about…etc.

I am glad I did the undercover investigations, and have known for a fact that it was a EA, although NOT condoned but at least it was not sexual.

With my undercover investigations, I created an email account that look very similar to my hubbys email address (sorry this could have been bad, but if that what it takes to know the truth, then the end justifies the means), and started communicating with this lady taking the persona of my H. (it worked since we were on vacation, and at this time my H and OW had sporadic communication). but I still wanted to know what happened.

Interestingly, she said she did not feel comfortable emailing as it not secure but would rather send an SMS and she gave me her numbers. So I started communicating with her via sms

I tried to dig out as much information as I could without causing any suspicions, usually mimicking the previous emails as I was not sure to what extent this relationship was at. The sms communications I had with this OW confirmed that there was nothing beyond the emails. The OW of course confessed that the fact that nothing happened “it made the yearning for it, spin out of control” in the OW own words.

To make sure this would stop I did inform the other woman’s husband of this and confronted my H. My H said it was only a game and apologized for his actions. BUT, it still hurts, to think of someone playing such a game.

I could not have believed my H if I had confronted him before doing my own independent investigations because I could not imagine someone playing such a “game” let alone my H.

You know I still wonder about the first set of emails with another female workmate if there was nothing going on. The mistake I made with this first set of emails with other female workmate was to confront him first and investigate later. When I confronted him he ofcourse said there was nothing going on and the emails could be easily misinterpreted if read out of context. He told me the context and the background to the emails. I confronted the OW, who also said there was nothing going on, and provided me with the same background to the emails as my H. Although there explanations match, I nevertheless, still do not believe it up to now. I am the kind of person who wants concrete proof.

So goodwife, if you have the FAITH may be you can give him a benefit of a doubt, BUT keep your eyes and ears open and don’t close on the investigations until you are sure there was nothing going on.

One thing cheaters do best is to lie when confronted with the truth, unfortunately truth shall always prevail. What we need is the patience.

I hope this helps. Good luck as you work on your M, I am in the process if healing myself, so may be we can encourage each other.

Love&honesty

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I find it interesting that betrayed spouses often feel that their efforts to uncover infidelity may be construed as dishonest or unethical. Remember that affairs are built upon lies and deception for which there is never any justification. If your spouse makes you miserable, then either remodel the relationship or close the marriage because if you choose to have an affair within the covenant of marriage you are entirely without excuse or justification.

When my wife began acting distant and somewhat detached I started paying close attention. Next thing I knew she dropped a bombshell and mentioned a 'trial separation'. I was totally perplexed and so I asked my older sister for her opinion since her husband had had an affair in their marriage twenty years earlier. After listening to my story she thought my wife of 21 years was probably having an emotional affair since the OM lived in the UK and my wife had always been a stay-at-home mom. She then suggested I download computer spyware onto our home computers. I was flabbergasted by the suggestion and felt ashamed to even consider it, but she told me that there was simply no way to proceed unless and until I knew the whole truth. She was absolutely correct. In my case I discovered a full blown affair hours after installing keyloggers on all of our home computers.

No matter how you go about it, never feel guilty about whatever method you choose to discover the truth about a potential affair. You can never fix or repair anything in life until you know exactly what is wrong. The truth is always right.

In our case, my wife was totally caught up in her deception by the time I discovered what was going on and she desperately needed someone to throw her a lifeline. I have some regrets in life--I suspect we all do--but I will never regret my actions in seeking the truth about what was going on with my wife because she was literally drowning in the very mess she had created for herself.

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by GOODWIFEY:
<strong>He was on the phone for about 15 minutes after I left her office. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's all the proof I need that they corraborated stories.

They were/are having an affair. They have been sexual, not just flirting. And your marriage will never recover as long as he lies to you.

Line up the lie detector test and do not back down on it. I predict he won't go through with it. He'll either get angry right away and say it's all ridiculous and that you should just trust his flimsy words, or he'll play along with it until he finds himself in the car on the way to take the test. Then he'll do everything he can to dissuade you to put it off.

Don't trust OW. She's lying to you, too. She wants to stay in this relationship with your husband or she'd have no problem telling you what really went on between them.

You will get through this. Just be prepared.

~ Snow

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Yes, I have to agree. They're having an affair. I was in denial myself with all the evidence that was right in front of my nose.
No one flirts like that unless something is happening. Pretty strong words there.

Now is the time to tell your H. that your marriage is in trouble and that you need marriage counseling. Time to start the plan A. method. Don't question him anymore. Go as if this is a full blown affair and read suriving an affair and get the book his needs/her needs. Get yourself a great therapist and post here a lot! This will be a rough ride for you. Please be prepared about the ups and downs that you will be going through!

Ali~

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Hello everyone,

I wish now I had not confronted so early, but I felt like I was under the gun as we are in the midst of making some very life altering decisions, all centered around my husband's job.

We went out of town, my husband had his interviews and I let the issue go for the last couple of days. We had a good couple of days, with no mention of the e-mails, the OW or my husband's actions. My husband probably thinks, I'm over it and is probably surprised that I have let it go so quickly. But the whole time I have been thinking about him writing "I ache for you, when can I see you" and I feel sick. He has class tonight and if we don't move then he has this semester and 2 semesters next year before he finishes the program (May 2006). It is the same group of people that have attended the classes from the beginning and they will be together till the end. So if we stay here then we will see her at least once a week.

Last Thursday, he did admit that he was attracted to her, that she was fun and fun to be around. He had not admitted that up to that point, in fact when I would tease him about her previously he would say "she's not my type".

I'm going to let him know in the next couple of days that I am going to follow-up on the polygraph and set an appointment. We will see what he does and how he reacts.

But how do I go about finding out how I can get a polygraph test?

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GoodWife, try talking to someone who works for your local law enforcement. They should at least be able to direct you.

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Good Wifey-

I will not be like others and tell you exactly what is going on with your husband and this other person. What I do know is that people who have affairs do many of the similiar things yet every affair is different. What I have learned is that in any marriage there is no privacy.

The fact that he was "ready to call it quits" raises huge red flags. My XW's affair was over (although I'm sure she was recovering from that fact) when she told me she wanted a divorce. "why wouldn't he be honest then?" I actually CAUGHT my wife because of her behaviors and she talked me out of it, deflected by being hurt and angry at my actions, so I let it go. Never again!!! Don't let it go. When she asked me for the divorce I asked again who it was and she lied. Lied for years as we suffered....

My advice is that there's an issue here. You know it and he needs to admit it. After her physical affair (although I did not know about that affair)she started an EA witha co worker. Started out as "helping out a poor sap getting divorced, came over to my house, worked on house with us, then turned into worked on our house with her, etc) I hired a private det. He found nothing...so I let it go....I know better now....what he's done is innapropiate and he needs to come clean....

Good luck...

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humm, we all have the same opinion. He is fooling you and DON'T BELIEVE IT! My Husband orginally denied her presence. Then I reminded him that he works with her! Then he said that they were "just friends." I guess I had stupid in my voice that he thought that he could fool me. Ahhh wrong! So I kept hearing her VM's and Humm sounded more then "just friends" to me. I investgated it and BAM it all came out!
He is manipulating you and you are being silly to believe it! You are in denial! Would anyone agree with me here?

Ali

Been there done that!

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Ali,

What did you do to investigate? How did it all come out?

I may have shown my cards too soon, but I felt like I really needed too at the time, due to my DH's upcoming job interviews. I'm not saying anything to him now about the OW, but I am watching. But since I let on that I suspected something then he will work harder to cover things up. I have a gut feeling that nothing is going on NOW, but may have in the past or at least came pretty close and he was pursuing her. I want him to admit what went on in the past between him and the OW.

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Hmmm...

I'm of the school of though that says you should not accuse or assume until you have proof.

Innocent until proven guilty. But to a point.

Considering the content of those emails, I would be extremely suspicious.

And while I may not come right out and accuse my spouse of having an affair, I would certainly put together a plan of action that has that as a contingency. In other words, don't crucify him, but sure as heck keep your eyes open. Also, this would be a really good time to take a good hard look at your marriage and your H and see if there aren't any cracks in the dam.

He may not be having an actual affair, but sure as heck there IS an inappropriate relationship there. So you have to deal with that and start looking for things that would lead him down that path in the first place.

BTW, emails aside....

What does your gut tell you?

dewt

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