Might not be the right place since I found out a month ago, but this is my first post. I've been reading this site and the forums all day today, so glad I found this. My H of 9 years has been in an A since 7/04. OW has OC due soon, I think in April. I think the first week I was in shock, then I spent most of my days sleeping, crying, or pretending nothing was going on. Last week I started getting angry.
I went to a therapist, and well, she was horrible. At the first session she said I needed to be prepared for H to leave me and at second session said I had made the decision I could not deal with OC, so that pretty much ends the M. So I told H I didn't know if there was any way we could work it out, especially since he was still seeing OW. That I couldn't deal with being a "stepmom".
The next day I realized that ending the M would be ending my life and my dreams and I'm not ready to do that yet. I love my H and understand that his A is not only his fault, yes his final decision, but he went there because our M, and specifically I, was not fulfilling his needs.
Sorry for the long story, but figured you would need the background info for the question. I told him we really couldn't do anything to deal with our M if he continues the A. So now comes what? Waiting for him to make a decision if he wants to work on our M or be with OW...
How long am I supposed to wait? I know in the mean time I should be trying to work on the things that I have not been doing well, I should be providing him with whatever needs are being met by OW....but he loves her, is "in love" with her, how do you convince someone to turn away from that? And how long do you wait for a decision? And how do you survive the wait? While he is telling her how much he loves her and wants to be with her. What do you do, pretend it doesn't hurt?

One thing I would suggest would be reading WATS Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses. They have been a great deal of help to me in dealing with my W's A.

Second, get Dr. Harley's book Surviving An Affair. It helped me develope a workable Plan A.

Third , consider medication or herbal supplements to help with the mental state. I started to take an herbal supplement called SAM-e
which helped stablize my moods, etc.

There will be others posting to you that are much further along in the recovery process than I am. They are a good source of support and guidiance. Weekends tend to be slower times for responses so be patient.

Vaya con dios.

NotToMe - Welcome to MarriageBuilders. Though I saddened by the reason the brings you here to join the "club" I am very happy that you found such a good resource during this very hurtful and chaotic time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My H of 9 years has been in an A since 7/04. OW has OC due soon, I think in April. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NTM, something sounds very fishy about this timeframe. An OC due in April counts backwards 9 months to July. It IS possible, but I think there may be more to the affair than you know yet.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The next day I realized that ending the M would be ending my life and my dreams and I'm not ready to do that yet.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, assuming that the OC is your husband's, and a paternity test would be in order, you should also talk to others on the system who are dealing with "children of affairs." At the very least, if the child is your husband's, your "life and dreams" are already "over" in that he will be responsible (as will you as his wife) financially for that child until it is 18 years old. The OW will always be a "part of your life" because of the child and your husband's legal responsibilities.

So if ending your marriage is not the direction you want to head, let me strongly urge you to seek out professional counseling, especially Joint Marital counseling if your husband wants to remain married.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I love my H and understand that his A is not only his fault, yes his final decision, but he went there because our M, and specifically I, was not fulfilling his needs.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NO, NTM, your husband did NOT go "there because our M, and specifically I, was not fulfilling his needs." You may not have had the "best of marriages," BUT not getting one's "needs" fulfilled by our spouse is NO EXCUSE of any kind for ADULTERY! Divorce, possibly, but not the deliberate infliction of harm and the lies and deception that reflects the adulterer's character.

NTM, we are ALL faced with all sorts of choice all of our lives. Things are not always, "nice" or "fulfilling," yet WE have to CHOOSE. We can choose "rightly" or "wrongly," but the choice is ours, and ours alone. It cannot be "blamed" on anyone else or "excused" by someone else's behavior.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry for the long story, but figured you would need the background info for the question. I told him we really couldn't do anything to deal with our M if he continues the A.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are quite right in this statement. And it is an ultimatum. What was his response? What did he say about wanting or not wanting to stay married? What did he say about the OW and the OC?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So now comes what? Waiting for him to make a decision if he wants to work on our M or be with OW...
How long am I supposed to wait?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As long as YOU choose. Recovery of the marriage is in the hands of the Betrayed Spouse IF the Wayward decides to attempt to stay marrieda and recover the marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know in the mean time I should be trying to work on the things that I have not been doing well, I should be providing him with whatever needs are being met by OW....but he loves her, is "in love" with her, how do you convince someone to turn away from that?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">His statements are "F0G TALK." If the affair started last July AND an OC is due in April, he had long enough to "play" and now he gets to "pay." But love? Not likely at all. At best possibly infatuation and guilt.

As for the steps you need to take, you need to read all you can about Plan A, and even Plan B should that become a necessary step in the future. You need to implement Plan A behaviors and changes IF you want to improve yourself REGARDLESS of whether or not you remain married to your husband.

I don't know from your post if you and your husband are Christians or not, but if you are there are also resources available in that area too that can help you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And how long do you wait for a decision? And how do you survive the wait? While he is telling her how much he loves her and wants to be with her. What do you do, pretend it doesn't hurt? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, of course you don't pretend it doesn't hurt. It DOES hurt. What you avoid are Love Busters, the "giving into" your Taker and all of the behaviors that are emotionally driven that lead you to NON-constructive shouting and attacks.

NTM, your husband, among other things, NEEDS to see your pain. He needs to see the depth of how badly he has hurt you. You can do that without LoveBusting behaviors, but he does need to know that you are not "strong and okay" with whatever he does. He needs to KNOW that HIS actions HURT everyone and he is NOT getting off "scot free."

On a practical matter, you need to look at your legal obligations and legal recourses. You need to contact and attorney and learn what you need to do to protect yourself in the event that you decide to end the marriage or if your husband will not "give up" the OW. You need to protect your financial assets and separate anything that could wind up in the hands of the OW either through divorce or through financial obligation to the OC.

PLEASE seek professional help, someone who can be involved and who can know all of what is going on and be able to advise you "moment to moment."

God bless.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NTM, something sounds very fishy about this timeframe. An OC due in April counts backwards 9 months to July. It IS possible, but I think there may be more to the affair than you know yet.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am guessing OC is due in April because of the A start timeframe, H says OW is preg from first encounter. Although I'm sure there is a lot I don't know about the A, the OW lives in another state, so it would be very difficult for H to lie about thier physical contact.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">At the very least, if the child is your husband's, your "life and dreams" are already "over" in that he will be responsible (as will you as his wife) financially for that child until it is 18 years old. The OW will always be a "part of your life" because of the child and your husband's legal responsibilities.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, that was actually my very initial realization, when I was thinking un-emotionally...H pretty quickly said he would support the OW for the OC, like paying for daycare... and it ticked me off because that is "our" money, not just his, and it is "our" lifestyle or buying decisions that will have to change. So, while I agree with what you are saying, my "life and dreams" won't necessarily be destroyed, but definitely altered to say the least.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So if ending your marriage is not the direction you want to head, let me strongly urge you to seek out professional counseling, especially Joint Marital counseling if your husband wants to remain married.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He still hasn't answered me solidly about working on our M, but did say he was willing to go to counseling w/me. I did IC for two sessions but was very dissatisfied with the therapist, she was very negative and immediatly assumed that H would leave me, she seemed to have her own demons to deal with.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NTM, we are ALL faced with all sorts of choice all of our lives. Things are not always, "nice" or "fulfilling," yet WE have to CHOOSE. We can choose "rightly" or "wrongly," but the choice is ours, and ours alone. It cannot be "blamed" on anyone else or "excused" by someone else's behavior.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right you are, I think I was just trying to say that I understand that responsibility for the problems in our M falls to us both. I didn't feel like H was trying to blame me either, but he did point out some things that have been problems for him in our M.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I told him we really couldn't do anything to deal with our M if he continues the A. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are quite right in this statement. And it is an ultimatum. What was his response? What did he say about wanting or not wanting to stay married? What did he say about the OW and the OC?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He responded that it was an ultimatum...(previously he had stated that OW said she would not give him an ultimatum because she felt she had no right to) He didn't really respond other than that, we just talked (and cried) about various issues that have been problems (the type of talk we should have been having for the past few years). In the end, he just said he couldn't talk anymore, never made an outright decision. At the time, I was feeling like there was no way we could work it out.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How long am I supposed to wait? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As long as YOU choose.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ouch....that changes almost daily. Sometimes I feel like I can wait forever, sometimes I don't understand why I didn't leave on D-Day.

Thanks for all the advice, I picked up "Surviving an Affair" today and started reading. I will post more in the other forum about the OC situation.

I see a LOT of advice on the board about seeking legal advice and I am just leery of doing so because it seems to me that would incite a more hateful, difficult situation. I don't hate OW, definitely don't hate OC, and love WH. I know OW, we aren't close, but she is not a bad person (outside of sleeping with my husband, which she feels badly about but not badly enough to overcome her "love"). I truly believe that whichever direction this goes, there won't be any hatred, just a lot of hurt.

Hello NotToMe

Sorry to hear about your pain.We are all suffering or have suffered much the same at the hand of our spouses. I am in much the same predicament and feel you pain.It happened to m on 08/04 and I am still waiting .. although I have been told to move on and get on with my life.

There is no right or wrong answer to your quesion on the length of time that you should wait. It is about acceptance and if you wish to keep alive or kill any feelings that you still have for your husband. I think that I am much like you and I am fighting on; despite being arrested twice, surviving near death experiences on at least 4 occasions and going through hell.

I took an oath at marriage and my word was my bond .. even though she broke this!!

Hang in there..look at the statistics .. they are in a honeymoon phase and nothing ever stays the same .. you need to be that lighthouse !! The only issue is the child and this could be the deciding factor and not the OW.

***edit** Not exactly Marriage Building advice**

Hang in there .. We are with you!

<small>[ March 03, 2005, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

NTM, you have been advised by experienced people. To have an affair of your own is not considered a responsible or advisable thing to do, I must disagree with Miguel. NO AFFAIR is considered advisable on this website as far as I know.

If your WH's affair caused you that much pain, why would you think it would help to do the same to him?

I hope some more experienced MBer comes along and can help you more.

Don't worry cc46, I disagree with Miguel as well. I have absolutely no interest in having an affair. Even if we were defnitely getting DV I wouldn't be out looking for someone else, no matter what has gone wrong, that doesn't excuse further destruction.

My H and I have talked some more since this post and due to circumstances with OC and some other stuff we discussed I am continuing to be patient. Doing better now, trying to Plan A, but that is difficult when there is not a clear decision/agreement to work on M. So, I'll keep working on what is probably my biggest problem (patience) until, well, I guess I won't know until we get there. Thanks all for your advice.

NTM, maybe it would be good for you tomove over to the GQII board. there is more traffic over there. On the weekends it gets slow everywhere.

On the otherhand, a very important part of all this is having patience. In the meantime there is a lot to read, on this website and the books. In spite of being here for a few months I haven't heard all the audio tapes that are recorded here. And there are several stories that I would love to read but would take a long time. So there is plenty of info, experience, insights etc to keep you busy.

Sometimes maybe it's best not to read a thing, and concentrate on living your life!!!!

Good luck.

Hi CC46,

I guess that you are right. I am still learning myself.. but my point was to dowhat is going to make he feel better about herself. Every situation is different ..thanks for the correction.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by miguel:
<strong>but my point was to do what is going to make her feel better about herself. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A thousand wee red flags are waving all over the world. You really gotta be careful what you say. That attitude is kinda what made most of our waywards wayward in the first place.

Do what is right and true. Seek to please your concience, your sense of right and wrong and you will find yourself with a stronger happiness.

dewt

Dewt,
I kind of am agreeing with Miguel on this, to a degree. Something that has been a repeating thread from friends, family (prior to A), and even some on this forum is that I have to be happy myself before I can try to make someone else happy.
I am a "pleaser", trying to make everyone else happy is what I do. So my "conscience" tells me to lay down, give up whatever I need to in order to make WH happy and want to stay with me. I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that this is not necessarily the "right" thing to do.
It is completely false that doing what makes me happy made my wayward spouse wayward in the first place. He CHOSE that path. It's not my fault. Both of us played a part in the underlying troubles in our M, but it is not my fault that he had an A. (I am having to say that to myself over and over again)

NTM,
Obviously it is not your fault that your WH had an A!!!!!
Everyone on this website will tell you that.

What you have to do now is come up with a plan about what you are going to do. On this website Dr. Harleys plans are followed. Read about plan A and see if you think that you could adapt it to your situation. Basically it includes exposure of the A (a calculated risk to end the A) and avoid LB AO etc plus meeting all the Ens WH will allow you. It is not about pleasing WH.

Since there is an OC involved maybe you would be more comfortable on the OC/pregnancy forum.

Read other threads. Have you read the book: Surviving an Affair?

And Miguel, never suggest anyone have an A on this website. It's all about surviving your S's A.
I don't think having an affair is good for any reason. Two wrongs don't make a right. Now having had all those affairs I guess you feel good, huh? You are now equal with your wife? Does she feel better about you now? Are you a better father now that you feel better about yourself? I would really like you to answer these questions because whoever reads this thread would probably be intrigued by what your position is now.

Hi CC46,

Let me fisrtly respond by saying that all cases must be looked at differently. All our pain is however much the same; but at different level .. depending on the damage and destruction the WW spouse inflicted.

Therefore,each of us has the responsaibility to make the choice on what is going to take way or ease that pain.This is a basic concept '' survival of the fittest''

Let me for my part convince you that I stayed faithful and I mean faithful to my wife for 14 solid years.. I nurtured her, gave her the salt from my bones and helped her become the best that she could be ..a success in life!!

I fell in love with a woman that was a wreck because her father was dying and nurtured her from strength to strength. I built her confidence, her skills and gave her my sould and heart !!

I believe in the sanctity ofd marriage and the words that bond us together..However she did not! Not only has she broken this.. but she is acting like a wild ravid animal guided by a selfish and evil man .. for self gain.

I am like NotToMe in a lot of ways and i have to smile when I see the words that she has written .. a ''pleaser'' .. a person that gets fulfilment from making other people happy .. that is me also .. i give my heart and soul or nothing at all !! I did do this with my wife and I do this in most things that I do. There are builders in this world and takers .. and I am a builder.

My wife has damaged me both emotionally,physically amd mentally ..she shows no remorse and I am yet to see 2 children.. who i would give my life for. The bomb shell was dropped on me 20 days into the birth of my daughter .. yet to be proven .. (Paternity needed and my wife continues to play games .. while I sit waiting .. in pain and sorry to say .. still in love with her .!!

I never did have an affair or affairs .. nor get pleasure.I was dealling with an illness ..trying to be loved so that I can start loving myself again without getting involved with anybody and hurting them as a consequence. I was alone, robbed of my children , my honour, dignity, self respect and much more is to come.. give me break.. we all try and deal with our pain in different ways..

I ask you ..Should I have waited at home like the obediant dog that my wife was treating me like or try and regain some inner strength, happiness and fill the viod/emptiness that was consuming me.. such that I could sleep at night!!

I know that divorce and affairs are painful and unpleaseant .. mine I believe is an ugly mess and very very painful .. my child has had nightmres, my parents in hospital and as for myself .. i have had nightmares that I woke up from feeling that I had gone insane ..and I had not had a drink!! Anxiety attacks, panick attacks, depression , nightmares of demons .. maybe some of this sounds familliar .. i think I got the lot !!

Hay NotToMe

Don't be hard on yourself. You are right; he chose this path like my wife did. We did make some mistakes as the 2nd partner ...we are human after all .. but we did not go playing around nor force a gun to their head to do so!!

I am still saying the same words to myself and people have told me to stop torturing myself. My wife origibally made the comment that I ahd done nothing wrong and that it was her who was weak.. of course.. she now is making all sorts of allegations to achieve a win!!

The sign of a pleaser and someone with dignity and honour is who you are.I am proud that there are still people in the world like you...However, let me be honest .. it is the people like us who get hurt!

Hang in there