If you are having second thoughts about telling your husband, be sure and read about what happened to TheStudent after she told her husband.<P>Good luck.

Thank you Susan. I went back a few days and read one of her last posts. I didn't read anything earlier than that. I did understand her frustration in the post I read however. I sometimes wish I could just run away and hide from everything. Make a new start and be smarter this time. But, we all know that is nothing but wishful thinking don't we? Sigh.... Tonight is just a bad night and I am feeling very depressed and frustrated. On nights like this when my H starts blaming me for Stupid things that he did on his own, I don't feel badly for what I have done (a rare moment). I know that is wrong, but it is just how I am feeling right now. Must really be a bad night huh? I just feel all alone... and scary as it is, tonight, I really need to talk with OM. Yes, searching out one who will feel badly for me. (I know I am going to get it for that one!) Thanks for your concern and thoughtfulness....

You want catch it from me, I have been there and know exactly what you are feeling. It is part of the addiction and the withdrawal. When things go a little bit off course, it is so easy to want to run back to the comfort we think we had with the OM. But remember it is far better to deal with the problem than to just look for a quick fix. We could have these same problems with OM if we were married to them.<P>Thinking about you!!! Good luck.

Hi Lacee,<BR>There is one danger in not confessing. The danger is that you won't fully process why it happened and will slip into letting things stay the way they are with your marriage. Even if you never tell your H, this HAS to be a wake-up call for you. The reason why I disagree with lots of people about confessing is because your decision to have an affair has nothing to do with your H. It is a pretty poor way to cope with what your H is doing right now, for sure. However, don't let your guilty feelings allow you to believe for one second that you deserve "punishment". If you haven't already, please try to get you and your H into some kind of counseling. If he won't go to counseling and can't stop doing things that hurt you, believe me, no amount of confessions will get him to stop. Silly me, I just blurted out the truth and never stopped to think what my H would do to me. You are fortunate enough to have come here first and truly consider all sides.

Thank you, I understand what you are saying about not processing what happened and why. I do think that I have learned that though, it may be hard for some of you to understand. I am still considering everyone's advice here. How could I not? It is so heartwrenching to read the suffering and pain that everyone here is going through. However, as of now, I think I would rather let the secret eat me alive other than tell him anything. At least, I will know what to expect from keeping it a secret. Total consumation of myself. But actually, what is new with that? It consumes me now and has from the moment I began it.... My stomach aches, my head hurts, my energy is non existant, my body is numb and my soul cowers in a corner deep inside myself somewhere. When I do find privacy, I cry alone in the bathroom where I can hide and not be seen. Then many minutes later I emerge with a false smile and phoney attitude full of happiness. But at least, I am here with my children, and they not only have me here, but their father. It is worth every ounce of suffering I have to go through.

Lacee,<P>This post concerns me. If the affair is eating you up so badly now, how can you be a good mother and wife when you become even more numb? You really need to see a counselor. If you continue to feel as you describe, you will not be much of a wife and run a very real risk of losing your H anyway.<P>Your H may not be very persceptive but he will pick up on the numbness and the crying eventually. This is not a good situation. If this totally consumes you as you think it will, you will have not gained a thing by keeping the secret.<P>Please notice that The Student had an H that would not attempt to reconcil once he found out. However, there are many betrayed on this board who know the awful truth and are fighting to regain their marriage. Seek help in this matter. I keep referring you to read the postings of "Francis" on the Why Women Leave Men part of Marriagebuilders. Her therapist gave her a very interesting strategy for breaking the news to her H. <P>I am not advocating that you run of and confess all here (I did say in the past that you should). What I am saying is that by keeping a secret that consumes you, the purpose of the secret has been rendered useless.<P>Does any of this make sense? Get some help in deciding what to do and how to do whatever you decide.<P>God Bless You and Your Family<P>JL

JL, <BR>My ex-H did try to "reconcile", but I think it was a false effort. His efforts mainly consisted of giving me just enough to keep me around till he could get all the anger out of his system and he could move on without bothering his conscience too much. We, as a couple, went to 2-3 therapy sessions that pretty much revolved around what a disgusting person I was and how "morally" he was too good for me. Before I confessed, I fully realized that my H might not stay with me. What I couldn't predict was how he would thoroughly degrade me and humiliate me before he left. THAT is what I'm here to tell people. Getting a divorce IS NOT THE WORST THING THAT CAN HAPPEN TO YOU!!!Her H has already shown her that he has no respect for her whatsoever by threatening her emotionally and physically. Rereading your post, I think you are saying something similar, that getting a divorce is not the worst thing that can happen. I agree that if being consumed by her secret is worse than whatever consequences she might face from her husband, then either leaving or confessing would be advisable. <P>Lacee,<BR>Please, please go to a counselor. I can tell you that your confession will not change these feelings you are having. If your H were the "forgiving" type and more solid than he is, he might be able to help. However, it is very clear that he is not. His own problems are so overwhelming (physical and emotional abuser), how could he help you with yours? Not only that, there will be one more person there heaping hatred and disgrace upon you. You are doing enough of that on your own self. You don't need your H piling it on even more. It is very tempting to think "this might just be the thing that opens his eyes". Given his recent behavior, not likely. Part of what you are feeling may be just the realization of how awful your marriage is, not just guilt about your affair. Again, please try to get some GOOD counseling. You don't deserve to hurt like this. There may come a day when you feel safe telling him. I just think that day is a long way off, given his behavior. <p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited December 30, 1999).]

The Student,<P>Yes, I believe that we are saying very similar things but perhaps coming at from different directions. While I agree with most of what you say, something really does bother me here. Lacee's H apparently did physically abuse her once. He has never done it again and was remorseful for his actions. Here is what bothers me. <P>If you believe her H cannot ever learn from his mistakes and even his remorse and actions subsequent to the event cannot overcome what he did, how do you expect anyone to overcome the betrayal of an affair? How can anyone believe that a betrayer will not continue this behavior for the rest of their lives. Are you holding him to a different standard, than other people associated with this board?<P>I fully agree that Lacee should approach her husband very carefully and in a controlled manner, if she does decide to finally confide in her husband. However, the assumption that his response will be physical violence is not warrented. The concern about physical violence is certainly warrented. <P>I was thinking about your situation last night TS and some of what you said just now seems to support at least the hypothesis. Let me run it by you. You said that H mentioned maybe the two of you could reconcil in a few years. Of course a few years is when you will be out of school. You interpret this as he just wanting in on the good stuff and not willing to go through the hard stuff with you. You may be right. However, he may have searched his soul and realized that as long as you were in school, he would always we second/third/.. down the line and it bothered him greatly. He may have tried (in his own fashion) to forgive you but could not do it, especially realizing his lot in life for two to three more years. But the fact that he mentioned possibly getting back together after two years or so, suggests that the affair was not the only and maybe not the major reason for his failure to forgive you.<P>What I guess I am saying is that it may have not been your confession that put the end to the marriage. The confession may have just brought everything else up for him and he decided not to deal with it. I am not defending him. What I am suggesting is that your telling your H, may have not really caused the demise of your marriage but was the final punctuation mark on it. In fact even your affair may have been less of a factor than you think; having the affair is suggestive that you weren't all that wild about your marriage either. It was the focal point for all of his other frustrations with the marriage. Clearly your description of his anger and verbal abuse suggest that he was a very frustrated man and it all came out at that point.<P>Why am I rambling on about this to you. Well, I am concerned about your opinion of yourself and your stated concerns about the future of the romantic part of your life. I think your future is bright, personally. You just need to process this whole thing more. You stated that there is considerable guilt left within you. Some level of guilt will always be there, but it should be a much lower level than you have now. <P>The second reason I am rambling about this is that Lacee, while in a similar situation with regard to deciding to confess, may be in a very different situation with regard to her H. Therefore, the advice needs to be filtered with her awareness of her situation with her H as apposed to yours. <P>Why am I focusing on your situation besides the obvious interest I have in seeing you do well? You represent one side of the possible outcome of her confiding in her H. You eloquently state your points and they have validity. People like Brynn, Susan, and others represent the opposite side of the situation. None of them are just like Lacee, either. <P>As you said and others have said she needs to see a counselor and/or talk with Steve Harley. He seems to have been very effective with getting to the heart of the issues with many people here.<P>Lacee:<P>I hope you have thought alot about all of this, but especially about talking with a counselor. You cannot go through life with your soul consumed by this secret. You should not be subjected to physical or verbal abuse. You don't have to put up with it. Having said that it would unreasonable to expect your H not to be hurt and angry and say somethings that are less than complimentary.<P>Good Luck with you decision. Hope that all of this discusion amongst us has been of some help.<P>JL

JL,<BR>I do so enjoy conversing with you! You bring up alot of good points. I do remember Lacee saying her husband was remorseful, and that is good. Maybe I'm wrong (Lacee please correct me) but I was under the assumption that her husband's behavior, although not physically abusive, was still continuing along the verbally abusive path. Having been in a similar situation, and coming from the brink of near suicide myself, I can only say that both physically and emotionally she is potentially in great danger and she needs to shore up her reserves before confessing. <P>About the school stuff. I offered to quit, I cut way,way back on my classes and research time. He then accused me of being a "slacker". Damned if I do, damned if I don't. Even the school thing wasn't the primary issue. He wanted what he wanted exactly when he wanted it. We sat down and did Harley's needs questionaire. His response to my most important needs were "Ok, I can do that one, can't do this one, don't want to do that one". One day he asked me what my needs are and I said "You tell me what my needs *should* be, and that's what they'll be". It became clear that a partnership was not what he was interested in. My problem? I'm a sexist for thinking that men should compromise for their wives careers the way women compromise for their husbands. I supported him when he was working full-time and going to school at night. Why? Because I could see some benefit to me in terms of his greater happiness and our mutual financial security. No matter what I did to try and convince him otherwise,he could not see that me getting a PhD would serve him. That simple. The fact that all of his friends wives stayed at home and lived only to serve their husbands only reinforced that fact. I see it everyday at school. These guys are all married. When they are going through quals, the wives are going through flashcards with them, giving them backrubs, making dinner everynight, washing their clothes, etc. etc. NOT ONE OF MY GIRLFRIENDS HAS A BOYFRIEND/HUSBAND THAT DOES THIS!!! I did that for him when he was going to school, so yes, I had every reason to expect he would do the same for me. So, ok, call me a sexist! I'm not being arrogant when I say I can and do do things any man can do except pee standing up. When we had a house together, I painted, hung drywall, did plaster, refinished wood floors, mowed the lawn, worked on the car, laid tile, PLUS did the girly stuff like sew and cook on a regular basis. <P>I don't talk about it much here, because it is off the topic of infidelity, but another reason why I have no faith in marriage is because I see it tends to serve men much more than it does to serve women. Sound strange? Statistics show that married women suffer more depression than unmarried women, while the reverse is true for men.

Student:<P>What a woman!!!!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I painted, hung drywall, did plaster, refinished wood floors, mowed the lawn, worked on the car, laid tile, PLUS did the girly stuff like sew and cook on a regular basis<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hey, not only can I do the guy stuff like that, but I cook, clean, and sew with the best of them. Much to my chagrin, I won the "Home Economics" award in 7th grade, and then defended my title in 8th grade (talk about embarassment during Jr. High at an all-school assembly... )<P>I've been following your threads lately. I wrote you a note, but then deleted it (because it wasn't sensitive and kind enough...).<P>Here's my bottom-line "K" take (and remember---I'm as analytical as you).<P>You gave your marriage it's only hope by being honest. If you hadn't---you'd be in the same situation (or worse). You COULD NOT save your marriage without honesty.<P>Your husband is a selfish, immature, egocentric, childish man. Unfortunately, the fact that you chose to be honest with him did not serve as a wake-up call to him. It's HIS loss, in the end.<P>You're still dealing with some loss, some grief, and disillusionment after the divorce. This is both normal and healthy.<P>My "2000" crystal ball says that you will find yourself married within 5 years. Happily. You'll have plenty of opportunities to meet interesting me. You'll get married not because you need to---but because you want to. And you'll be tremendously successful---both professionally, but more importantly, personally. You've grown a tremendous amount, and you're continuing to do so.<P>And eventually, you will say "K was right about that absolute honesty thing after all..." But I don't expect that until 2010. <P>I wish you a very happy New Year. Your future is so very bright---I hope you come to realize it (and be comfortable with it).<P>God bless.

The Student,<P>I agree with K . I was just trying to point out that I like K don't think honesty is what doomed your marriage. In fact as I said, I don't think the affair in and of itself doomed your marriage. You have already pointed out many other things about your marriage that weren't so hot.<P>I went through quals and all of that stuff unmarried so I never had issues of spousal support. Didn't get married until dissertation was finished. But I do know this; many of the couples I knew in Grad School are no longer couples. I don't think you are missing as much as you think. If the world and people were perfect maybe you would be but they are not. Your education is going to have to be YOUR education. <P>As far as marriage being a bigger advantage to males rather than females; this could be a really fun discussion. But I will leave you with one thing I was told many years ago and I remind myself of whenever things seem lopsided. "There is no pancake so flat that it doesn't have two sides." Keep this in mind and you will do well. . <P>Got to go do some work. Take care of yourself TS. You will do well, just as Karnac K has predicted. <P>JL

K,<P>I love you man! You are always so right on with your advice. Honestly, you do, and have so many times, restored my faith in "man"-kind. Your home-economics titles prepared you,obviously, to be the wonderful and non-conventional guy you are! <P>ok,ok. Really, as more time passes, I am beginning to see the wisdom of total honesty. In a more serious note, I also realize my anger, whether it is justified or not, is keeping me from delving deeper into my 50% of the problems I created in the marriage. The two-sided flat pancake, if you will. My in-your-face feminism is part of it. <P>JL,<BR>Love you too! Gosh darn. It is so hard for us perfectionist engineer types to just let go and beleive that not everything can be solved by an equation or simple reasoning. You see, I'm still trying to create the ideal man-model, or woman model (me). One that doesn't have any flaws, cracks, or visible imperfections and that can withstand infinite forces/loads without yielding. As much as I would just love a backrub now and then and hot meal cooked just for me, it is kinda nice to stay at the lab all night and not worry about someone at home worrying about me (except my dog, and believe me, I am a total dog zealot). I've also completely swallowed up susan's/lacee's post. Sorry!!! Lacee, you out there?

All of you most definitely bring a smile to my face! I love reading what you talk about! It is sort of like evesdropping but legal! Ha ha! I am in much better spirits today. I think I sometimes make things out to be worse than they are. I apologize if I have sounded pitiful to some of you.<P>JL, I am hanging in there. As far as it consuming me, I think I am better off than I sounded. Yes, there are times that I just have to release the tension and cry alone, but I think we all go through that. I have however, learned to become a very good actress if the moment calls for it. He sometimes thinks something is wrong, but I cover it well. I will take your advice and read up on "Francis" posts. Thank you for your concern....<P>Susan, thank you for understanding what I am feeling. I do appreciate your thoughts.<P>Student, My H will definitely degrade and humiliate me, that would be a sure bet for all of you. He will make sure that his children understand just why there is going to be a divorce or separation, etc. He can't let things go from years ago! Every now and then something will get tossed out in an argument about the past, even though not as serious as an affair, but just as hurtful. And I do agree that I need to get couseling. The marriage wasn't and isn't always awful, It was made worse by my mistake. Thank you for your advice....<P>To all, he did abuse me just the one time. He was extremely remorseful, then he denied ever doing anything to me, then he was remorseful again. I know he wants to forget it ever happened and so do I. People who know of it as well as myself, were absolutely shocked by it because he is just not like that. Well, I am here to tell you that he turned into a monster that night. And that is something that I do NOT EVER want to see again. But yes, he is still verbally abusive. To the point where I just can't take it sometimes and there we are again, right in each others faces and I realize that this cannot go on! How many times I have told him that, I couldn't begin to count! Let me try to explain it to you like this. Have you ever watched one of those cartoons where something comes in and scares the crap out of the cat and the cat goes right straight to the ceiling, just dangling there shaking by it's claws? THAT IS ME! That's what I feel like a lot of the time. Sometimes, just the sound of his voice does that to me. It sends chills up my spine! Not because he is actually threatening to me, but it's just the way he Creeps up on me, or the disqust in his voice when he says something like, "On the computer again?" in that hateful voice he gets at times. Or the look he gives me when he see's another man looking at me. What am I suppose to do? I'm sorry... I went way off again didn't I? I want to thank you all and let you know that your advice has opened my eyes to a lot of things. I feel badly that you all are suffering with trying to get your marriages back together, while I sit here and selfishly feel concerned for myself. I really am a nice person, when you get to know me! I think I will tell you a story next time about his posessiveness. It may open your eyes a bit more as to what I am going through. Maybe I will post it for you all? What do you think? Take care and Happy New Year and Good luck to you all! Thanks!<P>

OOOH Lacee,<BR>Believe me, sister. Could I tell you a story or two. Everything you just posted hit a nerve with me. Before my affair I even told him I was afraid of him and he said "I don't want to be married to someone who is afraid of me" and stormed out of the room. HELLO. And he wondered why I didn't think he wanted to stay married to me?<P>I just remembered this one...I was driving my car, the one I had before we got married. He said I was driving too slow on the freeway and he wanted to drive. I said, no, I'm driving. He then proceeded to scream at me to pull over and I told him, sorry, it's my car. THEN he pulled the keys out of the ignition, bringing the car to a rolling stop ON the freeway, and threatened to throw the keys out of the window. I said, "go ahead. I've got AAA and a cell phone", at which point he tried to grab my purse, but I got it quicker. We then sat there for awhile till he cooled off. He finally gave me the keys back, I turned around and went home after that. <P>How about this...Sometime after my confession I was in the bathroom with him while he was in the shower. I had used his razor on my legs, but I ALWAYS replace the blade so he doesn't use it on his face. So he asks me, "did you replace the blade?" I say "yes". A week or so later, same thing, same question. Another week or so goes by, I hadn't used his razor, but same question still. I realized that he always asks me that question, so I say "Honey, have I ever forgotten to replace your blade?" and he says "Yea, I think once a few years ago". Then I say "Hmmm. You can't even forgive me for a razor blade. How could I ever expect you to forgive me for cheating?" At which point he put the razor blade up to my face, then threw it at me. Sounds nice, huh?<P>You don't need to apologize for telling your story here. You can be as happy or sad as you want to be. Remember, we can't "see" you, so there is no need to act for us. We won't hurt you. Just tell us like it is. <P>

TheStudent! WOW! And you talked about me hitting a nerve! I definitely know you can understand my feelings about the way H makes me feel at times! That is exactly the type of things I go through! Burrr...feeling the chills go up my spine! I am going to begin a new thread about this type of emotional abuse. I think others may have a few stories of their own! I think it would be interesting to hear about it! I think you should copy and post the stories you just told me here. I am so sorry that you had to go through that.... <P>