I found out my wife had affairs with three separate men while assigned overseas and I was at home with her daughter (my stepdaughter)...it was five years ago and she SWEARS there have been no others since...I might believe her. But the worst part is that, before D-Day, we agreed to have her go back to the "scene of the crime" so we could get assigned to another place near her family, so she's back to the Lions Den in September!

Her excuse was that she was very lonely, drinking and, once the affairs happened...in for a penny, in for a pound. She didn't think I would ever find out but an e-mail from the one of the OM's wife broke the story to me.

The irony of it all is that were were each others affair. We left our spouses for each other and have been married seven wonderful years...up until now.

I thought things would be different, being that we saw firsthand, the destruction that affairs cause, but I was wrong! I feel SO stupid.

But I still love her and she SWEARS that she still loves me and wants to work it out. We start therapy next week and I already own and am reading SAA which is confusing becasue she say I am meeting ALL of her needs, yet she broke our vows anyway! She say she REALLY meant them when she said them, but she goes through some strange compartmentalization process that allows her to rationaize the violations! AAAAUUUUGGGHHH!!!!!

I don't know if its a good sign, but in all of our talking she said there is someone at work who she says she COULD have an affair with if the opportuity presented itself. We agreed that she must avoid ALL non-work related contact and, NO drinking with him! She has to learn some neew avoidance behaviors and KNOW what she is doing in social settings. She has to be KEENLY aware that, once she is near doing something that she KNOWS I would not approve of, she must extract ehrself from that situation IMMEDIATELY!

Sorry so long..there are more details that arent releveant, but I had to vent...

We start therapy next week...I hope it can help her, becasue she needs it!!!!

I feel SOOOO VIOLATED!!!!!

Hi IFV,

Welcome to MB. Sorry you have to be here, but it is the best place to be, given the circumstances.

Re your statements:


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by IFeelViloated:
<strong>

The irony of it all is that were were each others affair. We left our spouses for each other and have been married seven wonderful years...up until now....
.....We start therapy next week...I hope it can help her, becasue she needs it!!!!

I feel SOOOO VIOLATED!!!!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First, you will read here, and elsewhere, that Ms, that result from As, have numerous strikes against them. So, it may not be surprising that this happened.

You also mention your W's drinking, and your hope that counseling will 'help her, because she needs it'. She needs it?

It sounds as if you both need it. Frequently, abuse of alcohol is self-medicating to alleviate some pain in the drinker's life. That is to say, the alcohol use may be a symptom of an unresolved problem. You, like it or not, are a part of the problem, whatever it is. This is your problem, too.

So, good that you're going to C. Think about AA and Al-Anon, as well.

Good luck and blessing. Let us know what happens.
--------------------------------------------------
me-50-FBS FWH-44 M-6/84 3 great kids
A-2/03-5/04 Dday-5/8/04 Fog/WD-5/05-9/04 NCltr 9/3/04
In Recovery with God's help

<small>[ March 23, 2005, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: afterall ]</small>

You are correct...WE both need help. We, as a couple who M'd after our A, we do have that "statistical issue" going against us...It's funny how things like bring issues to light, like her drinking whenever something is emotionally troubling her. She knows that is a problem and we'll be talking about the reasoning in therapy next week. I have been going the last two weeks and plan on continuing until this is resolved one way or the other. If I don't feel that I can TRUST her, I cannot and will NOT stay in the marriage when she goes to her year long assignment

I am at a complete loss...how can she repeatedly say that I meet ALL of her needs (E and P), yet repeatedly do this to me? There may be something out there that I am doing/not doing that may have contributed to this. I just don't know...Part of me felt it was going on at the time, but I thought it was my overzealous jealousy, which I have gotten a handle through therapy during the (unknown to me) time of the affairs.

We talked a bit last night and she seems to have a STRONG need to be affirmed as being attractive to other men and, if the man is attractive to her...to affirm his desire for her by BREAKING OUR VOWS WITH HIM!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

The A that brought us together is causing me a lot of guilt (deservedly so) for the pain that I caused my ex...I will probably be writing her a letter telling her that.

I feel like SUCH A FOOL!!!!

IFV,

Good for you for starting the C.

When does the year-long [censored]'t start? Can it be changed/cancelled? It sounds like your W is very fragile, and this may be a really bad time for a seperation like this.

<small>[ March 23, 2005, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: afterall ]</small>

Sorry, dear, but your W's cheating isn't irony. It's just desserts. Irony is something happening that you DON'T expect, such as a fireman's house burning down. You should have expected this. You cheated together and have both shown the inclination to be untrustworthy. Did you REALLY think she'd be faithful? Are you?

...yet she broke our vows anyway! She say she REALLY meant them when she said them, but she goes through some strange compartmentalization process that allows her to rationaize the violations! AAAAUUUUGGGHHH!!!!!

Repeat offender. Maybe she did mean her vows when she said them. But that was then. Didn't she mean her vows to H #1 too?

Who knows? Maybe both of your previous spouses also cheated on you or abused you, and an A was your (really bad) way of escape. As are still wrong, as I'm sure you know. But I wouldn't be as harsh under those circumstances. Otherwise, I have no sympathy for you. In fact, I'm smiling. You're not violated; you're the violator.

That is the hardest part...I am currently in the midst of writing letters of apology to both my XW and her XH....there were real problems in our marriages, but both were fine decent people, not deserving of the treatment we gave them. Now that I TRULY understand what we did to them, my guilt is overwhelming...

FWIW, I have NEVER, nor will I EVER, cheat on anyone EVER AGAIN! The guilt I have for the affair we had will haunt me to my dying day. Our extra-marital time was a POWERFUL enough lesson for me that infidelity is a POISON!! Sadly, I thought that lesson was not lost on my WW, but it was. I GREATLY regret the way I and my WW came together...I love her dearly, but I wish it could have been done differently. Not that that has anything to do with the here and now...

Whatever happens, the woman (WW or otherwise) I am with will know of my past and I will do ANYTHING to assure them that I WILL NEVER STRAY AGAIN!!!!!!

IFV,

Reading your posts is like looking in a mirror. My story is the same as yours from the way we got together to her multiple affairs and my debilitating pain in the face of what I have done.
I only have a minute right now, but I DEFINETLY want to talk with you.
Maybe we can help each other if only in support.

Cruz

Thanks...it will be great to hear from someone who has made the same mistakes that I did...I hope you are further along toward a sense of normalcy than I am right now...Myself and my WW are in DIRE need of professional help, so counseling will help, I hope.

I thought she would "change her cheatin' ways" because she had FINALLY found her "Knight in Shining Armor", (me), but I was only deluding myself. I am now facing the unrelenting pain we inflictd on my XW and her XH and I now TRULY realize what a HORRIBLE thing we did! I have no regrets marrying my WW, but the guilt of HOW we came together is immense. I have written my XW and her XH letters of apology and will be mailing them. I hope, for their own peace of mind, they have forgiven us and moved on, but I have not and cannot forgiven myself at this point.

I do love my WW...we are two peas in a pod, but SHE has to change her behavior, with regard to how she views herself and her interactions with men or there is no hope...I will be working HARD on whatever faults (I am sure they will come out)I brought to this convoluted mix that our marriage has become.

I look forward to hearing from you...

a question for any formerly WW's...

My WW professes to really wants to change her ways..she has seen the destruction AGAIN and is looking forward to meeting our MC, but she is scared of her past behavior and being able to change it.

I view her WW ways as a behavior that CAN be changed if she wants to, but she is hesitant to say "it won't happen again", becasue it did and she has lost some belief in herself I think.

Can this self-doubt be overcome with proper MC? Except for the HORRENDOUS deviation, I have had no real complaints aobut our relationship.

I am encouraging her and hoping for the best...I had even suggested that she think about AD's (even out her "loneliness") while gone and she is amenable to that if the MC says it might be a good idea.

I am hopeful and scared $!@#less all at the same time...

Hi IFV,
Are you there?

Yes I am...we start MC today...She is hopeful, but overwhelmed with guilt about it aAND the pattern of "misconduct" in her past being a permanent part of her personality. I believe it can be fixed, but she has to set up REAL boundaries with men!

She has been very honest and told me about some "potential" times when she wanted to violate our vows, but never did. We're both at work, so its hard to talk about these things, so my info is a bit incomplete.

It's game over if there are any other PA's that I find out about later. I am willing to work through the "almost's", as they are a symptom of our problem(s), but no more PA's!!!!

Hi IFV,
My wife has admitted to some "inappropriate" behavior, but still claims that the one time I caught her in November of last year is the only time she has actually broken our vows. She claims remorse but doesn't really show it.

She claims that she loves me and wants to spend the rest of her life with me, but her actions don't support her words.

We've been in counseling since January and our counselor said in her 27 years she’s never seen a wrecked relationship as bad as ours where both parties seem to genuinely want to save it.

Quote_________________________________
"I thought she would "change her cheatin' ways" because she had FINALLY found her "Knight in Shining Armor", (me), but I was only deluding myself. I am now facing the unrelenting pain we inflictd on my XW and her XH and I now TRULY realize what a HORRIBLE thing we did! I have no regrets marrying my WW, but the guilt of HOW we came together is immense."

Again – I’m there my friend. My wife feels no remorse for what she did to her xh because she claims he was an over jealous monster who wouldn’t allow her to be herself – well – guess what I’ve been called over the last few years. If I question any of her actions I am being too controlling

Quote_____________________________
"We talked a bit last night and she seems to have a STRONG need to be affirmed as being attractive to other men and, if the man is attractive to her...to affirm his desire for her by BREAKING OUR VOWS WITH HIM!!!!!"

My wife is the same… I think (and so does our counselor) that she has deep rooted feelings of rejection in her childhood that she never worked out. She NEEDS attention from men like an addict needs his drugs.

I’ve come to grips with the fact that her actions aren’t about me – they’re about her. Now I am trying to get through to her that I understand this, and that if she will open up to me and come clean with the lies and start on a clean slate I will help her because I Love her, and I DO want to spend the rest of my life with her.

I wish my wife would be open up to me as your seems to be openning up to you. I don't know how much longer I can hold on.

I’m rambling a bit so I’ll close for now.

Cruz

I never would have imagined that there was another couple out there with as much drama in their lives as us. We surely can help each other...

I talked to her about mailing the Guilt letters I had written to my XW and her XH...following the principle of Joint Agreement. She was not comfortable wih that at all, but, if we don't work, I will re-write and mail them. I am so sorry for the pain I caused them because now I KNOW how wrong we were to inflict it.

It sounds like our WW's are two peas in a pod. There is a superior at work that she is "drawn" to...I ask her about him every day to make sure she is avoiding any non-work related conversation. He offers NOTHING that she can't get from me, yet she was hoping it would happen before the wall came down in D-Day. No sexual fantasies yet about him yet...is that good? I don't know.

Somehow the two of them (our WW's) are SO lacking in self-esteem that the ONLY way to validate themselves is to have sex with semi-strange men! How sick is that? We had been thinking about "experimenting" in the "swinging" lifestyle prior to D-Day (not anymore!!!) and she was mildly interested. What that tells me is that these affairs are not about sex, but about HER and her warped sense of self!

I hope our MC's (yours and mine) really earn their pay becasue we love our WW's, but refuse to be victimized by them.

If we fail (God forbid) some woman is goign to get a GUARANTEED affair-proof man (me) in her life.

Rant off...

Our MC spent three individual sessions with each of us just trying to get the ground work of where each of us comes from... drama city dude.

Like I said, my wife has no guilt about her x, but she is uncomfortable with the guilt I have about mine. My relationship with my X is as good as could be expected in the situation. I have two children from that marriage and she has NEVER done anything to turn them against me. It bothers my WW that I can spend 45 minutes on the phone with my X discussing what's going on with the kids - she just doesn't understand how it is possible that my X and I don't hate each other.

I never hated my XW - I gave her the oppurtunity to hate me if she chose to, but she didn't.

My wife's history is workplace affairs. She lost a job due to an affair (with her supervisor) before coming to work where I work. She had one affair there that I know of before we started seeing each other. She has affairs with guys older than her - she's currently 34 and I'm 44 - but I think I'm the youngest of the ones I know about.

After we both divorced our X's she left my company and promptly had an affair with her supervisor at her new place of employment (this is one of the one's she won't admit to). She followed him to another company where she currently works, and has had three affairs there that I have STRONG evidence of, but short of video tape she refuses to admit it. Like you said about your wife - she compartmentalizes her life - there is when she is with me,and there is when she is not. When she is not she pretty much throws herself at any man who so much as looks at her.
My wife does not seem to have sexual fantasies so much as she just does whatever she wants with whoever she wants... in her words "why fantasize when I can do it."

It is a self-esteem thing. I've tried to show my wife through my actions that in my eyes and in my heart she is the most beutiful woman in the world - that I idolize her and worship the ground she walks on - that I will do anything within my power to make her happy with one exception... I won't share.

Like you, I can guarantee that I will never be unfaithful again. I have no desire to be with anyone except my wife for the rest of my life. The one thing I can't give her that she seems to need so much is the thrill, the danger of having an affair and the adrenaline that comes with it. For me - all that did was make me sick. I was so miserable for what I had done - it was kind of like pissing on an electrical fence... not the kind of "charge" I need in life, but everybody is different.

Cruz,

Why do WS's bother expecting fidelity? And Cruz, why oh why did you marry your W knowing not only what she (and you) did but also how she felt about doing whatever she wants?

TooInvolved,

Why do we bother?
I don't think I could have started to answer that question before I found this site, and I can still only speak for myself, but I'll give it a try...
My affair was EA turned PA. I went through what I now know was a text book progression right down the slippery slope into the whole "soul mate" thing where I TRUELY BELIEVED that I had found the person I was meant to be with. You can read it here on a thousand different threads with a thousand different flavors, but they're all the same story. If I had a resource like MB eight years ago I wouldn't be sitting here answering this question, but I didn't, and I am.
The feelings I had completely convinced me that this White Knight had found the Damsel in Distress he was destined to save. I completely believed that the fairy tale would never end. I couldn't see through the fog the destruction I was causing. I rationalized, I lied to myself - you name it. I used every tool at the adulterer's disposal to emotionally defend myself to myself. None of this is an excuse... I'm just trying to answer honestly.
I never lied directly to my first wife; I omitted which is a lie, but I never looked her in the eyes and lied to her. After the affair had been going on for about six weeks (still EA) my wife confronted me one day by simply asking "Is there some one else?", and I answered yes, and told her the entire story.

In her view there were no options except divorce, and in the state I was in I did not fight her wishes. I moved out with my truck and the cloths on my back. I left her all the checking accounts, savings accounts, investments we had - I didn't ask for any of it because I caused this. We had just built a new home, and I kept paying for that as well even after she re-married. I'm really not wandering off subject here - this is part of the answer to your first question, and as a segue into the second.
I expected fidelity because of my feelings for my current wife, and un-realistically; for what I gave up. How could I give up all I had for some one who would cheat on me (fog thinking)?

That statement leads directly into the answer to your second question – after loosing everything I had worked my entire life for… it seemed not marrying her would be admitting that I was wrong – that it had all been a huge mistake. I thought I could change her even as I came to recognize what she is, and I’m still trying to change her today.

I don’t expect any sympathy from anybody TooInvolved… I don’t deserve it, but I can tell you that if it’s any consolation for all of the BS’s here – I hurt. I hurt for what I did, for what I’ve become… I hurt twenty four hours a day seven days a week.

This web site has helped me to understand how I could have done such a horrible thing, and the few times I post are to people who seem to be standing on the edge of the slope with a grin on their face thinking about taking that next step. I post to them to scream STOP!!! LOOK WHAT I’VE DONE TO MY FAMILY – look what I’ve done to me.

I posted to this thread because I see somebody who is where I am, and even us lepers want comfort sometimes… even if we don’t deserve it.

Cruz

Cruz

I just lost a HUGE post...I'll re-type it later...

We'll make it through this...if we don't, at least we'll have no regrets for not trying.

IFV

IFV,

Between negotiating the new forum and logging back in every three minutes it's been a bit of a pain the last few days, but I'm sure they will iron the bugs out shortly... hang with it.

Something you might consider - If I'm writing a long post I do it in Word, then cut and paste into the forum. You won't lose your stuff that way if something messes up.

Cruz

Word is the better way, now that you mention it...it was a good post too!

It's a topic "close to heart", so re-creating it won't be difficult.

IFV