Ok...<P>21 months and 3 days after D-day...<BR>16 months and 14 days after she moved out to be with the OM<BR>15 months and 13 days months since I've found this site and started a formal Plan A...<P>Now is the time for my <B>Plan B</B>!<P>My W has just signed the last of the Property Settlement Agreement papers...<BR>...the divorce is now just weeks away.<P>I know there have been discussions on the forums about...<BR>1. Should you have a Plan B (or <B>closure</B>) letter?...<BR>2. Why bother with a letter? (if divorce is inevitble)...<BR>3. What would/should it contain?...<P>I don't know the answers for any of the above... (even though I given others my ideas)...<BR>...but I have taken the letter I wrote 12+ months ago...<BR>...made some modifications...<P>And NOW...<P>...look for all the feedback any are willing to give...<BR>...before I send it to my W...<BR>...as a <B>"final letter"</B>.<P>I am (like all of us) often blinded by the closeness to my own situation...<BR>so even my <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000177.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B - 101 (2nd ed.)</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000413.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B - 201</A> may not sink into my brain!<P>No... she won't come back...<BR>No... she will not last with the OM... (I give it 1-2 years after my divorce... but she will marry OM (yuck) )<BR>No chance she will stay with him or me...<BR>...her lows are yet to come.<P>If you want to know my background... check out...<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037.html" TARGET=_blank>Roll Call</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>Profiles</A>...<P>Again any and all comments...<BR>...are appreciated!<P>You can see my <B>original</B>(at the time this post was written) Plan B letter at ===> <A HREF="http://pages.ivillage.com/mb_nsr/PlanB.html" TARGET=_blank>NSR's Proposed Plan B Letter</A>...<BR>...the <B>revision</B> (really a shorten-up version that I will send... based on input from everyone)... can be found at my new post <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000597.html" TARGET=_blank>I hear you ALL...</A>.<P> <P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited January 12, 2001).]

Well my friend...<P>You have reached this point...<P>My hat goes off to you in your constant vigil...<P>You are one that I truly admire...<P>Your letter is supremely eloquent...<P>I found only two minor points in which you may want to concider...<P>Per your request I looked at this through dispassionte eyes, with my knowledge of the principles we have learned...<P>Knowing how your W has reacted in the past to you, this is what I see...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>By both our actions and in-actions, we are now both suffering. Paragraph 1<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This may be construed as a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Buster</A> in the form of a disrespectful judgement...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>However; I think in searching your soul, with enough prayer, you can find this is a possible alternative. Paragraph 3<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This too may be construed as a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Buster</A> in the form of a disrespectful judgement...<P>We both understand the ironies involed in this form of love busting...What may seem very loving and caring to us, may indeed be seem as more of our judgemental views by assuming things...<P>I'm given to opine that you send this in the form you have here as it conveys your true feelings. I would, however, be remiss if I didn't point out these two <B>minor</B> things I see...<P>God speed to you my friend...<P>Just know that your Brother Bill will be around...<P>Love You,<P>Bill<P> <P>------------------<P><BR>May the roads rise to meet you,<BR>May the winds always be at your back,<BR>May the sun shine warm upon your face,<BR>The rains fall soft upon your fields,<BR>And until we meet again,<BR>May god hold you<BR>In the hollow of his hand.<p>[This message has been edited by WilliamJ (edited January 10, 2001).]

I am sorry NSR, but your letter does not seem sincere to me. You apologized an awful lot of times. This letter may make you feel good , But it will hurt her. <BR>---------<BR>Until that point, I feel, I must break off all contact with you. I will avoid seeing you, or talking to you, or communicating with you, except as it relates to the children. On visitation pick-up and drop-off days, we will remain separate; me in the house... you in the driveway. Visitation can and will always be as flexible as possible, but there will be no contact between us. <BR>--------<BR>You say you have found a closer relationship with God. Is this how Jesus would talk ?<BR>You are still hurting buddy. Don't send that letter.

Joe...<P>I'm about to enter Plan B...<BR>...it is the last time I can offer her an opportunity to return to me.<P>Sincerity isn't my goal...<BR>...honesty is.<BR>If the letter hurts her feelings...<BR>...it is based only on her guilt.<P>This is as Jesus has spoken...<BR>...as He sends us all on our journey...<BR><B>Matthew 10:14</B> - <BR><B>Whoever will not receive you or listen to your words--go outside that house or town and shake the dust from your feet.</B> <BR>(and Mark 6:11, Luke 9:5 and Luke 10:11)<P>I reflect on many such passages often...<BR>...see <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000288.html" TARGET=_blank>MB Concepts in Christian Scripture</A>.<P>Am I hurting?...<BR>...there will be rememberances of some hurt...<BR>...but by the graces I have received...<BR>...I am healing more each day...<BR>...in accepting His will.<P>For my spiritual journey to continue...<BR>...I need to and will send this letter...<BR>...as I continue to pray for my W.<P> <P>Jim

NSR,<P>I can let Bill do all the proof-reading from now on---he's nailed the issues that I have with the letter. <P>You also use "lose" when you mean "loss" in the beginning of the 6th paragraph.<P>Otherwise, it's very good.

Jim,<P>I'm sorry that you've reached this point.<P>I think your letter is fine. No need to change a thing.

Very nice letter--perfect. <P>I am too emotionally exausted to write one.<BR>Sigh! I'll just use yours as a guideline when I feel up to it.

NSR, You are taking that bible verse out of context. There Jesus was talking about preaching the gospel not a hurting former spouse. <P>Rom 13:10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.<P>

Joe,<P>I don't believe I use this verse is out of context...<P>Jesus was <B>not</B> just "talking about preaching the gospel"... but what everyone is to <B>do</B>. To show we are Christians as <B>we are <I>all</I> sent</B> to proclaim His Good News...<P>A Plan B has no intent to hurt the WS...<BR>...it is designed to save as much love (marital) as is humanly possible... and...<BR>...in no way stops Christian brotherly love...<BR>...I will pray for my W and all WS's... as my sign of love...<BR>...since sometimes... that is all that can be done.<P>A Plan B letter is as loving as God's gift to give us the Commandments to live by...<BR>...and extremely <B>loving</B> gift... and a <B>freeing</B> gift!<P>The Plan B letter <B>is</B> a love letter!<P>However, in the words of Dr. Dobson...<BR>...a "tough love"... love letter.<P>Would Jesus believe in "tough love"...<BR>...I think so...<BR>...for those who proclaim His News and are sometimes rejected... and when there is no more to be gained by those who reject the Word... they are to... <B>...go outside that house or town and shake the dust from (their) feet...</B><P>Jesus did not come to replace the old Law ( Commandments)... but to fulfill them!<P>After my earthly existence is over....my W will not be my "W"!<P>I worry about <B>my</B> salvation...<BR>...and raise my children with that in mind... for <B>their</B> own salvation...<BR>...their's will come based on their lives.<P>My W must take care of her own.<P>My prayers will in fact, <B>do her no harm</B>...<BR>... it is the only form of love (in fulfillment of the law <I>written in her heart</I>) that she can accept... without throwing it back into my face. The silent prayers I offer... and she will never know about.<P>She can <B>think</B> that this is intended to hurt her...<BR>...but if she does...<BR>...it only proves "the fog" has captured her...<BR>...and if not "the fog"... then maybe something to be feared more... has really captured her.<BR>I hope not...<BR>...but it is not for me to overcome someone else free will.<BR>...I just pray <B>I</B> understand His will.<P>=========================================<BR>A few points about my story...<P>Within days after D-day...<BR>...no touching was allowed (me touching her)<BR>...(forget about her touching me)<BR>...W tells kids... she knows she is sinning(adultery) but needs to continue...<BR>......<B>"...to make her a better mom!!!"</B><P>Within 3 weeks she files for divorce...<P>Lies about "keeping OM away from kids"...<BR>...in fact had him playing "daddy" in my house while I was on a business trip...<P>Had plans (in writing) to keep me from living no less than 15 miles from my own kids.<P>When she thought she had breast cancer...<BR>...would not allow me to accompany her to any hospital..<BR>...and was gleeful in telling me "who" found the lumps... <P>Filed a baseless harassment complaint against me with the police...<BR>...police "naturally" thought I was your typical abusive H... <BR>...a feeling I have never felt before in my life.<P>Deceived me in asking for money to move out to be on her own...<BR>...as she already had co-signed the lease with the OM.<P>Virtually cut off all contact after leaving me and kids...<P>Made <B>all</B> discussions about divorce/separation and usually kids too... go through attorneys.<BR>BTW: our settlement is almost identical to what we agreed to just before she moved out...<BR>...before she had significant input from the OM...<BR>...but when she led me to believe there will be a custody battle... the expenses tended to build rapidly... (especially a father's expenses seeking custody...)<P>Deliberately denegrated and attacked <B>all</B> Plan A efforts...<BR>...numerous given away and crushed/smashed roses are a witness.<BR>...numerous name calling (initiated by OM no less)...<P>Had the courts ban any e-mails from me (about reconciliation)...<BR>No e-greetings... No cards... Nothing if it didn't related directly to the kids.<P>Stole her son's (my stepson's) SSA benefits to the tune of $35,000. (this over a long period of time... directly against what we had agreed on... for his(son's) education!)<P>Pits my stepson against me, by thrawting my efforts in encouraging stepson to have contact with his BIO-father... portraying him(her first XH) as a serial killer/stalker... (and yes... he's been a minister for 5+ years!)<BR>And yes... she sometimes makes analogies between me and BIO-father to my stepson.<P>Was the one who "proposed" (ahemmm) keeping distance from each other at pick-up and dropoff times during visitation...<BR>...and yells at me for stepping out my own front door.<P>In fact...<BR>...there was only one time she showed any kindness...<BR>...allowing me to hug her the first Christmas she moved out...<BR>...(maybe 3 seconds)...<BR>...and then when the kids came into the room...<BR>...she pushed me away. (visable affection was a no-no)<P><B>and yes</B>... I still love her...<BR>...but the dust on my feet is thick...<BR>...and if she doesn't come back... and soon...<BR>...my love for her will need to be manifest in prayer alone... I think... it's the best kind of love I can give. <P>Miracles do happen...<BR>...I am a big believer in that...<P>I'm not putting God to the test here with my Plan B letter...<BR>...in humility... I allow him to test me...<BR>...and even after the divorce... to give it all the time... His will suggests... to the hearts he guides.<P>=========================================<P> <P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited January 11, 2001).]

My Dear Jim, <P>I know how hard you have tried to reconcile our marriage. I know that this letter is your last hope of her knowing how much you still want your marriage. <BR>It is a very good letter. Bill is right about a couple of points, but other than that...<BR>I can only hope that I will find the same love you feel for your wife. You are a good and honest person, Jim. This letter will show her that. Hopefully she will wake up and realize what she is losing...<P>------------------<BR>Susan

Joe,<P>I too see Jim's point being in correct context...<P>Religious semantics can be tricky as each of us infer things differently...<P>You seem intelligent and I do not want to think differently so enough said on that...<P>As far as the letter goes...<P>How long have you been comming here and how familiar are you with the MB priciples as espoused by Dr. Harley?<P>These tend to go against all conventional wisdom...However they do net results when applied properly...I am a student of these principles and see them as 1 good way to repair the tumalt of a broken marriage be it reconciliation or divorce...These tools has guided me in becomming a winner in my eyes...Granted I lost my marriage, however, I regained my sanity and was able to move through the demise of my mattiage with courage and dignity. That is how I can sya I concider myself a winner...<P>My good friend Jim/NSR is also an astute student of these ideas and has done all he can do to save his marriage, with grace and dignity...<P>Have a good look at these principles and hopewfully you will come away with a nugget of wisdom and possible a plan to get through whatever you are going through...<P>God speed to you and your recovery...<P>Keep comming back to this place and allow us to walk this journey with you...<P>Bill<P>P.S. The above is written in the assumption that you are not as familiar with Dr. Harley's ideas. If you are then I appologise for my ignorance of your situation and experience with these principles.

WilliamJ<BR>--------<BR>Main Entry: se·man·tics<BR>Pronunciation: si-'man-tiks<BR>Function: noun plural but singular or plural in construction<BR>Date: 1893<BR>1 : the study of meanings: a : the historical and psychological study and the classification of changes in the signification of words or forms viewed as factors in linguistic development <BR>-------------<BR> <BR> I am an ardent student of the Bible. <BR>Its meanings are important to Christians. <BR>Your post assumes Bible interpretation. I do not believe that everyone interprets the Bible. The Bible interprets itself. If you read all the verses on a perticulaur topic, You will see the context of the Ideas discussed give understanding.<P> You are correct, Many people here have more knowledge of Dr. Harley's priciples. <BR> I have experience in saving marriages. <BR>

Dear Jim<P>You have been very important to me in my own aituation so I have taken some time, printed out your draft letter and hope my following comments can be just a fracion of what yours have been to me. Acouple of thoughts:<P>(1) You have prayed, been intorspective, thoughtful and caring during your long torment - and it shows in your draft letter. BUT, does your W "speak the same language" I dont refer to the Scandinavian influence; rather, WE hve all become familiar with the language of SAA and, on this board (lifeline) we speak to each other in concepts we all understand - but when i printed your letter and read it objectively, it occurred to me to ask you whether the phrases, expressions and format ie. the language, would be meaningful to her ???<P>(2) I have had great difficulty explaining Plan A/Plan B to friends - they dont understand how you could write a letter that says, in effect, "I am sorry for what I have done, I love you, BUT unless ... I want no further contact". They may be right or they may be wrong. But remember, you are coming from a point on the globe where she has not been. My view is that unless you are actually the WS - or have been on this board or read SAA your content might be a bit "foreign.<P>Are you saying what you want to say OR are you working to a formula (in which you believe - as I do) plus your religious beliefs (sorry Jim but you do know I have not been able to find the spiritual consolation as much as I wished I might). So question is "what are you ACTUALLY saying"??<P>(3) Jim, I also have some problems with the length of the leter. Is it unnecessarily long > Will it be an irritant to her ? Will she end up thinking "What does he want? What is he saying? He says he loves me, he says we could recover but he "wants" annulment, he "wants" no further contact ?? Will she READ and UNDERSTAND what you are trying to achieve??<P>OK JIm - these are my thoughts - I hope they dont offend you. I would never want to do that.<P>Rosebrook<BR>

Jim,<P>What is there to say? You know & I know but how do you express it?<P>Take care friend!<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>