My h. is in affair for a year now.<P>He has started and stopped d. 2x. <P>He is "Wonderland with Alice (ow)"<P>Our three children and I are a blip on his radar screen.<P>When money stopped after 5 months, I filed for child support. AFter judgement, he defied it. On advice of an attorney ( and now in retrospect) I regretfully filed Criminal Neglect of the Family charges and he was in jail for 24 hours. Afraid I blew reconciliation. Yet there is still no d. and I have chosen the route of not filing since I did not leave and I do not want a d.<P>Ow is direct opposite of me. Alcohol is a factor. Husband was abandoned as a 15 year boy when his father left his family.<P>I am so devastated for our 3 children.<P>Through the net and books, I have come to see the power and intensity of an affair.<BR>I just thought all I had to do was say I am sorry and all would be well. Was I wrong?<BR>Oh yes.<P>Just read Surviving an Affair. Since there is no d. and since there is minimal contact, I wonder if I should start plan A. <P>Because of my pain and anger, I have avoided any consistent contact as have our children wo are very hurt and avoid him because of ow.<P>Will have to be bigger than all of this and make an effort at thoughtfulness to try to see if he can be reached and touched to even begin to move toward ending affair.<P>Will be talking to Steve Harley next week. I finally, after all the reading, have convinced myself that if there is any chance of reconciliation, I may have to the partner to make a move.<P>H. is in affair which will probably die a natural death. CAn I wait? I want to. I know it is based on deceit and dishonesty and quicksand. She is 3xmarr/div. dwi convictions, drug background/jail too.<BR>From tx. Here's hoping someone tx will want her back--she and her 13 daughter who he is housing--but won't pay child support for our 3 children.<P>AM interested in feedback about Plan A.<P>REad story from LABix; am interested in hearing from you. <P>elo

Welcome <B>elo</B>...<P>There is a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000553.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P><B>About your post</B>...<P>Do start on a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>...<BR>Check out my post <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000176.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101 (2nd ed.)</A>.<P>A long distance Plan A is hard to do...<BR>...but not impossible.<P>It will take a lot of patience and persistence.<P>Do draft up a love letter... to reach out...<BR>...but remember...<BR>No begging, or pleading...<P>Show you're strong... have resolve...<BR>...and that you have grown... to understand what marital skills you've lacked...<BR>...and have improved upon.<P>Good Luck.<P> <P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>Jim</A> / <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037.html" TARGET=_blank>NSR</A>

Well Plan A is a hard thing to do. I've already wanted to just give up about 300 million times but my heart won't le me. It's a hard journy but one that must be started right away. It does help. By showing that I'm strong and willing to work at our marriage my wife has started to show me taht she is willing to try also. It will take time and lots of heartache I'm afraid. Just remember we are all here to help. my prayers are with you.

I'm sorry that you & your family are dealing with the trauma that an affair brings.<P>Now, you mentioned that alcohol is a factor? Does that mean that your H is alcoholic? Or, is he a child of an alcoholic?<P>If he is an alcoholic, the alcohol addiction needs to be dealt with first, before marital recovery can begin. Dr.H says the same thing. The alcohol is the main factor that is fogging & polluting your H's mind. Once the alcohol is addressed and overcome, then, he will be able to see things a little more clearer. That's when marital recovery starts.<P>If he is an alcoholic, it sounds like he is staying with the OW because she supports his destructive addiction. She sounds pretty dysfunctional herself!<P>FYI: My H is an alcoholic (a recovering one). His affair was a product of it. You'll find several others on this board who have had to deal with a substance addition and an affair that resulted from it (purplemag, bc, alcoholic's wife, others...I can't remember all of their nics) Look up their posts and maybe it will give you a better picture of what you'll have to deal with.

Elo; your situation sounds similar to mine in the fact that I don't want a divorce ( although I filed for one) and I have 3 small children and I don't want to give up on all of us.<P>As far as alcohol, I am not sure that my husband is not an alcoholic but he is a ACOA. Both parents recovering. He used to do alot of drugs, and may even smoke now(to relax)<P>My H still lives with me and is pleasant to me until the word Money is mentioned and he goes crazy. I know that he is under a great deal of stress supporting us, but he has put us in this situation d/t his purchases. He could sell some of his "toys" but he would rather I go to work and let him take care of the kids (2,3,5). He is never home now, and when he does have the kids, he found a new home with widowed woman and grandma to take them so he doesn't have to be alone with them. <P>I actually feel sorry for my husband because I really feel that he is ill and I am the only one that seems to want to do anything to help him, however, what I say is useless to him because I am me.<P>hopelessmom

About that 24 hours in jail .... I support that decision. If you have to choose between L-busting vs making sure your kids are fed, clothed, and otherwise taken care of .....<BR>.... always<BR>.... choose<BR>.... the<BR>.... kids!<P>Focus on your kids, and on yourself. <P>------------------<BR>~*~*Yesterday~*~*<BR>all my problems seemed so far away~*

Hello<BR>(Jim, wrngler, survivor, hopelessmom, yesterday,<P>Am new to this forum. So pleased to hear from anybody. Made me feel good. I need that now.<P>general comments:<P>Have read Surviving the Affair; just today, I spoke to Dr. Harley on his wife's radio show. Gave him brief but significant facts.<BR>Asked his advice:<P>He said: write letter re: meeting needs and wanting another chance. Give Plan A about 3weeks--then go to Plan B.<P>In light of length of affair, and my h. is in two states of Intoxification 1. affair and 2. alcohol, need to go to Plan B shortly after trying plan A.<P>My torment is this:<P>What should be my focus?<BR>1. show that I have grown (jim's sugg.)<BR>2. keep in mind affair will die a natural death in at least two years (has been one year). OW is just distraction from his real problems; his beginning to see our children will bring on real life situation and begin to pentrate infatuation bubble. Should I suggest about children? <BR>3. Should I suggest anything or should I just tell him I have been trying to improve <BR>myself?<P>What should I say in Plan A letter? I thought only Plan B called for a letter.<P>Alcohol is definitely a factor in this equation. OW intensifies this-yes.<P><BR>If h. wants to try reconciliation, then:<BR>1. affair MUST END.<BR>2. Substance abuse treatment.<BR>3. Then, hopefully, marriage counseling.<P>Seems hopeless, with these obstacles.<P>I have waited a year. Yes, I am an emotional mess. REfuse to take anti-depressants. Have lost 35-40 pounds.<BR>No joy in anything. Have slowly begun to take more interest in my children. First<BR>4-5 months, I didn't care what they did.<P>Gradually, I came to realize (hard to believe that I had stopped realizing this)<BR>that if I wasn't there for them, who would be? <P>They are devastated and talking about his affair and absence is extremely difficult.<BR>Have tried counseling for 16 year old son.<BR>He now has no positive father model. <BR>He cries and he feels the rejection. <P>My h. saw girls even less than he saw our son. Then, gradaually, he didn't even see our son. <P>Only recent readings I have done have begin to bring home how an affair is such a cruel, self-indulgent act that a person will give up their spouse, children, job, reputation, financial security,etc. due to the infatuated "frame of mind" that an affair <BR>provides. So, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, FOREIGN TO ME! Has cut me to the core of my self. His very words to me "I HAVE TO BE TRUE TO MYSELF"<P>Recent readings of Harley, Vaughn, Lusterman, Goldner, Brown, have brought home to me that long term affairs do die a natural death because the very dishonesty and deception that began it will be the very end of it.<P>With my luck, I am afraid to hold on to this straw. But, I have stuck to my original guns so far--adamant about-have not deviated from what I told my h. when he left--I do not want this separation andI will not file for a d. He did twice and stopped it twice.<P>I will not be the partner who breaks this marriage contract and destroys this family.<P>He didn't file until 3 months after he left, then stopped. Ow called me in the middle of night in July and said Robert wanted to talk to me. I hung up!! He started it again and stopped it again in Sept.<P>Ambilavent. In limbo. Intoxicated with <BR>affair and alcohol.<P>So, I wonder if he will even read any letter that I write or if he will receive-might be intercepted.<P>At times, I feel as though I should just let things roll. At other times, I feel I need to make a move.<P>Jim: What is a long distance Plan A?<BR> Long suffering and patience;yes, I believe that. What do you think about what Dr. Harley advised me?<P>Wrngler: Under my circumstances, do you think I should start A for only 3 weeks as Dr. Harley said. So, afraid that B will be the end. But, he said that usu. affairs die a natural death as soon as affair becomes more trouble than it is worth--more disadvantages than advantages--can't compensate for what would be lost from marriage--<P>I have to be confident and keep my focus on healing and not on ow.<P>Survivor: Thanks for sympathy. More trauma than words can convey, right.<P>Yes, alcohol is a contributor. TEn days after affair started h., ow. in accident in his truck. alcohol, wet roads, etc. <BR>He promised me he would leave her alone. If only I had understood more then about affairs, I would not have been so passive.<BR>Hope it is not too late. Children did not ant to see him and I did not force it. Never realized that affair so addicting and would cause him to almost forget his family.<BR>If I had known this effect, I would have insisted he see the children regularly which would have imposed a "real life situation" into "infatuated situation" How I regret this!! Is it too late to start this plan?<P>His father an alcoholic. OW is disfunctional - 3xmarr/div. She actually brought her 13 dtr. to live in the apt.<P>Hopelessmom: /thanks for sharing.Sorry to hear about your situation. Did you attempt Plan a/b?<P>Yesterday:<BR>Dr. Harley expressed that my filing the charges for child support is not considered a Love Buster, because it was in the court system. My h. suppported us for 5 months, then money dwindled to nothing. I was warned this could happen and it did! Then, so I could keep house, I filed for child support and he defied the judgment. And he still does. ON advice of a FAmily Law specialist, I filed Criminal Neglect Charges-jail-angry at me. Still no money.<BR>House is in foreclosure. Horrible, tragic.<BR>My children and I will have to move and he is so "intoxicated" he doesn't care and he doesn't feel our pain. Child support enforcers recently told me that they informed him that if he didn't produce his employer to them, they would file contempt and a motion to revoke/suspend his driver's license. He gave them the employer. I still have no money. <P>I'll close. So kind of you all to answer.<BR>Looking forward to your suggestions about letters/plans.<P>Elo<BR>

elo...<P>A long distance Plan A is one where the WS has moved out and is basically having no or very limited contact with you.<P>These are difficult (in terms of success) since the WS doesn't fully grasp the changes that you have made in yourself.<P>Sometimes all you can do is write a letter...<BR>...as proposed by the Harley's...<BR>..ideally if your children could deliver the "news" (not the letter)... but the "news" of how you've changed...<P>But...<BR>...I think it is always a good idea to do even a short Plan A before moving to a formal Plan B.<P>--------------------<P>About a "Plan A letter"... (a phrase coined by people on this forum... i.e. not in the "book")<BR>...it really isn't much different from a Plan B letter...<BR>except....<BR><B>no mention of "no contact" (between WS and you)</B>... not until Plan B letter!<P>1. it is a love letter<BR>2. no begging, pleading, and the like<BR>3. expresses your contribution to problems<BR>4. more importantly... informs the WS of the positive changes you have made<BR>5. is honest in that those changes are permanent<BR>6. is honest in that your love is <B>not</B> a forever "thing"... (at least not "marital love")<BR>7. you can be honest about the pain you are having about WS' being with the OP.<P>-------------------------------------<P>I'm glad you got in touch with the Harley's...<P>Your situation is hard...<BR>...especially your financial situation.<P>I'll be praying for you.<P> <P>Jim

Jim:<BR>Thanks for reply.<BR>Read your earlier posts on forum.<BR>I am sorry that I am so selfish now.<BR>So desparate to do something and so afraid to not do anything.<P>I will be counseling with Steve Harley tomorrow morning (2/27) at 7am. I am trying to focus on exactly what I need to tell him so as to use my 45 min as valubly as I can--esp for $120. <P>I didn't remember book advocating a Plan A letter; confused about that point. Actually<BR>Dr. Harley suggested a Plan A letter!<P>He says give it 3 weeks. Then Plan B. H. is already not communicating even though I want to. Just afraid to because at this delicate stage of the operation, I want to use the right tool (words) so as to make this operation a success, not a failure. <P>For the first 5-6 months after h. left, I sent many Plan A letters. Only difference, I see now, is that those letters did not focus on my changing--becuase only time took care of that. Even to this moment (11 months later), my heart is still broken and the tears continue to shed the sadness in my heart and what I feel for my children. I know I still love h. <P>Harley says affairs usu. die a natural death.<BR>I have subconsciously believed that because I have told my h. many times that I do not want a d. I want my marriage restored. I know he has to want that also. So far, it appears that he doesn't. <P>I am fearful that this affair, with my luck, will be the one that doesn't die a natural death. OW has been 3x/marr/div.<P>Interesting book review: Secret lies by Pittman. I ordered it. From what I read, third party like this w. have ulterior motives/despise marriage/no guilt over whatheir part. <P>Affairs end when:<BR>1. ws realizes affair can't compensate for what marriage has to offer.<BR>2. affair no longer worth the trouble.<BR>3. lies,deception that gave birth to it also the very issues that cause its death.<BR>4. passions ends when real life problems and situations take the place of the passion that keeps affair alive.<P>Since he chooses not to see our chilren, do you think I would be making a mistake to <BR>encourage them to call him--let them begin the contact. Now, because of ow, they do not want to see or be with him.<P>Well, I keep trying to convince myself that it will die; and if it does, h. has to want to confront alcohol addiction. At that point, then, maybe, as his mind is less clouded and rational thinking begins to return, he will see the light. Maybe then, there will be a chance for our marriage.<P>In the mean time, the thoughts of my being a d.w. make me sick. I am reading the CASe against Divorce.<P>Would it unwise for me to suggest or send him any readings or books? I doubt that he has any time and interest for anything other than his other life now. Foolish for me to think I can be the one who will penetrate his armor of infatuation, lies, and deceit.<P>I will compose a letter.<P>Right now, I am on my way to take my two daughters to the Mardi Gras. We always went together. <P>Financial devastation seems so unreal. We live in this house and the notes are not being paid; and he doesn't care and he is not showing any interest nor concern that I will have to move with our children to an apt. at some point. This is what is so incredible to me. So foreign that an affair can do such horrible damage and the ws is so wrapped up in infatuation and SELF that he doesn't see the forest for the trees.<P>So many issues to deal with; seems surreal.<P>ONe day a time. Every time the little drawers in my mind opens that remind me of the affair, I try to close as soon as I can.<P>I am seriously considering writing a book.<BR>Final chapter yet to be written.<P>So kind of you to read this. Thanks for prayers. <P>elo