Well, there was a really rotten set back today. Nicole and I got into a horrible fight, over nothing really. It started with talk about...what else, and escalated from there. The kids saw Mom and Dad at there worst today. This really hurts me inside because of what my childhood was like (full of really bad things). We both talked to our children about the fight, and let them know that this is the wrong way to deal with these feelings of anger. We also both talked more in depth about me leaving here. I am not sure where we will end up, or what will be the outcome of this marriage. We do so well sometimes and then, we do really badly. I don't know what to do anymore. I'm feeling so much stress right now. I explained to my eight year old daughter that I had been with "another lady" tonight. That was probably the second hardest thing I have ever said (the first being my admission of having an affair to my wife). Where am I right now in my mind? I'm not really sure. I feel really crummy though. I don't want my children to think this is going to be the "norm" from now on. Yes, I realize that all I have to do is move past the withdrawal stage, and move past the emotional affair, and move past the contact, and move past the ...... This is not so easy for me. I often doubt that I want to move past it. I know what I feel for both of these women has to be addressed, and that before this happens things will always be this difficult for Nicole and I. Anyway, I just wanted to let you all in on this, so Nicole doesn't always have to be the one to say the bad stuff. I'm an a$$h*le, and I am fully aware of it. I don't like to admit it, but I can be mean when I get angry. This is not who I am on the inside, but certainly who I can be when I feel "threatened". I'm not sure what to expect as far as replies go, but I'm sure that you'll all be honest. Thank you for that.<BR>Arik

Maybe you should both just stop talking and hold each other.<P>Over the Holidays you may have experienced some moments that defined your family experience...that made you feel like "us" and made "us" feel like part of a larger picture.<P>Deep down you know what you want for your family...and that includes Nicole. There may be some major bumps...you just had one, but don't let these distract you from your goal.<P>Dust yourself off and keep going. Just don't talk so much...for a while it is just going to be a bunch of yuck anyway.<P>Be on the same team. Have the same goal.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Arik,<P>Geez...<P>I know you don't want to move past the OW, I was in withdrawl once...and I've been on the receiving end of it too...and it sucks big time!<P>Find a counselor, <B>stay away from the OW</B>, and find a way to deal with Nicole without hurting each other... although I'm one to talk right now because my marriage is in the toilet... but hey, do what I say, not what I do... Not very funny, but true.<P>Arik, you have a W who loves you and is trying so hard while she watches you falter over this again and again. Leaving home will only give you free reign to contact the OW. <B>DON'T DO IT</B>... you don't need the freedom right now. Given enough rope, you'll hang yourself. <P>I do care, Arik...<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>Broken heart, broken promises, broken spirit... let me rest!

Oh my, yes, do not leave home. Needed to add that.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Arik:<P>Everything you are saying and thinking are all the same things my h said or did when he was going through his affair and then withdrawal.<P>Please continue to educate yourself on infidelity.. My favorites are Survivng an Affair, After the Affair, and Private Lies.<P>I re-opened an earlier post I had copied from the book Private Lies Chapt. 13. This Chapt. will describe why a relationship with ow probably wont amount to anything.. Arik, you have a very slim chance of having a good relationship with Chrissie.. Affairs are based on lies, deciet and passion. Not commitment and love as in what you and Nicole started from. Once the passion fades, you will realize in a hurry, that you made a huge mistake. Just read Freedoms posts.. He is a great example...<P>Everytime you think about contacting Chrissy, please come to this site and ask for help.. Also read the private lies post, over and over again to remind you of what your chances are..<P>Arik,, Also read my post,, Another story of hope.. It gives you my story.. <P>I have heard it all from my h.. The classic, I love you but am not in love with you.... etc., etc., etc.. You seem to be like my h.. Knowing what the right decision is, but its difficult to do.... very difficult..<P>Arik,, I held my husband in my arms several times while he cried and said, Please help me... someone please help me... He didnt want to lose me,, but he was addicted.. And as I wrote in my post, it was the saddest thing in my life, to watch the person I love most struggle, and I couldnt do anything about it.....Meanwhile he was killing me,,, as you are killing your wife,,,,,, I cant even begin to tell you the pain she is in.. And for her to stand by you tells me she is one heck of a lady.. deep down, you know what to do... I promise you that your love feelings for your wife can come back... They really can...... Time is the key... You may not believe it right now, but my h is living proof...<P>I do believe that most Affairs have to die a natural death.. I dont know how long yours has been going on.. For my h it took about a year for him to finally realize.. I want to warn you though.. Depending on your wifes tolerance,,, someday, it may be too late because of the pain you are continually inflicting on her,.. I truly was getting closer to really letting go of my h..a few more months of what I went through, and there may have not been any more chances.. so please keep this in mind.. Each time you contact the ow, you are digging a grave you may not be able to get out of if you continue.. Good luck Arik and God Bless. <p>[This message has been edited by mickey65 (edited December 29, 1999).]

Arik.<P>I'm not posting much right now, gotta lot on my mind. But I guess there are some things I should say here. Because I do care about you. <P>You know it all. You know what needs to be done. You also know it's the hardest thing you've ever done. I don't need to tell you that. You already know. And you're choosing NOT to do what needs to be done. That, of course, is your decision.<P><BR>You now see how crazy this whole mess has made you. Some of the consequences of your bad judgement in letting it begin. The hurt you've inflicted upon your family. The hurt you've inflicted upon yourself.<P>But listen. There are consequences that you've not even begun to comprehend. And I'm not talking about losing your marriage and your wife. <P>You know that you are a good and strong man inside. Your wife knows that too and she loves you and stands by you - for now. Your children love you and look up to you. The OW thinks you are special.<P>But that will change. For all of you. You will have to look in the mirror and realize that you weren't courageous after all. That you really aren't the good and decent man you believed you were. Not because you made a bad decision. Because you didn't do what was right to fix it. You couldn't bring yourself to put forth the effort to protect your family when your family needed you the most. You will know this forever. My brother, though now remarried to a wonderful girl 10 years later, says not a day goes by that it doesn't cross his mind. Not so much what he did wrong, but all the things he DIDN'T do. <P>Your wife will realize that you're not the wonderful man she believed you were, not because you tried and failed, but because you never really tried. Your children will always love you, but, as they get older, you will not be that father that they look up to to guide them in what is right as they grow. Because they will realize, no matter what you and Nicole say to them, that you did not care enough about them to do what needed to be done to protect their fragile world. Arik, I know this. Take it from a woman who has spent YEARS reassuring a child of her father's love and NEVER spoke an unkind word about him, they will not understand. And it will never be the same with them again. They will love you and forgive you. But how will you live without their respect? With knowing they eventually realize that you didn't try and fail, you didn't think it was important enough to even really try. That THEY were important enough to really try.<P>Your precious OW. The woman who makes you feel so good. She's probably a decent person inside too. She can afford to make you feel good and be kind and loving and say all the right things because she's not living with you. You're not sharing the problems of everyday life. You're not inflicting pain on her. <P>So, you might decide to walk out of here and not try because it's too hard. And now you can spend more time with her. And you two can make each other feel absolutely wonderful. Future happiness? Not hardly. Trust? Gimme a break. No matter what either or you say now, where will you find the trust in each other when things get tough and you NEED to depend on the other being solid and dependable? You've already proven that it's too hard. It'll be different? Not a chance. If you don't love your partner and your kids enough to stand by them and protect them from yourself, you'll never love anyone that much. If you don't respect yourself enough to do what the man inside knows you should do, you won't the next time either. Especially not for the woman who helped get you to this place. And you know you can't trust her. Because now that it's come down to it, she doesn't want to do what's right either. And you know it.<P>You know the facts. You know what's right. I have no intention of trying to tell you what to do. You're a grown man who knows it all already. It's up to you, Arik. Once we become adults, we don't stop growing. The world tests our fortitude and our courage every day. And as we pass those tests, we grow to be stronger and better people. People that we can be proud of. <P>So, I guess you just need to decide what kind of man you want to be. What kind of father you want your kids to see. What kind of man you want your daughter to look for as she grows up. What kind of man you want to see in the mirror each morning.<P>I know, like all of us parents, you've believed from the moment they were born that you'd give your life for your children without hesitation. And if Nicole was in danger, you'd jump into the fray to save her, at all risk to yourself.<P>But, are you willing to give a few months of pain to yourself to save ALL of you? That's all it would take. Just a few months during which time things would get easier and easier. And you would be rewarded like you never dreamed. This is that moment, Arik. That time that all parents say "I'd give my LIFE for my family". Only it's not asking for you to give UP your life, but for you to do the work to reclaim it. <P><BR>Ok, mom's done now. I'm not gonna tell you what to do. You have to make that decision. But everyone's waiting, Arik. Nicole, your kids, the people here who love you and that man inside of you. We're all waiting to see how strong and courageous you are. What kind of man you CHOOSE to be. Because that's what it is - your choice.<P>It's up to you now. No one can save you and family but you. What's it gonna be?<P>Hugs and strength to you.<P>Lori<P>

Arik,<BR>I only wish my W would come to grips with what you are clearly able to see. She was highly depressed yesterday because OM called. She sent our boys downsatirs so they couldn't hear what she was talking about. You see the affect you are having on your children. I am afraid my w has not yet realized that she is hurting them yet.<P>Our youngest told her that everyone is always trying to hurt him. Sounds like things she has said to me. She asked him if she was trying to hurt him. He said yes. However, I know that he didn't tell her how she was hurting him. I know that part of her hurting him is how she treats me. They both trust me more than they do her because she treats them the way she was treated by her mother which was not pleasant. In addition, he loves me and doesn't want her treating me the way she does. They both want her to treat me the way they see me treating her. I am as nice as she will allow me to be. She controls how close we get.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Arik,<P>What Lori says. The longer you fence-sit, the harder this is. Not impossible---but harder. My wife fence-sat for nearly a year. We ended up separated and she ended up pregnant before she got off the fence. This made the recovery harder---no doubt about it.<P>Here's the deal---in case you weren't sure what to do.<P>1. Start counseling with Steve Harley immediately. I don't want any excuses out of you---just do it.<P>2. Do what he says. I don't care whether you think it's right or believe in the methods. The beauty of this process is that you don't have to believe---you just have to DO IT. If you do, in 6-12 months the OW will be out of your system and you will be romantically in love with your wife!! All you have to do is listen and follow instructions in good faith and with honesty.<P>That's the picture. It's easy. It's pretty cheap. And your payoff is a loving wife, a terrific marriage, a happy family, and a good example to your children. Is there anything more important????

Arik,<P>Not much I can add after "Mother" Lori. She really lays the fatc out there for you to consider.<P>One additional point is this: ALL couples have fights and blow-ups. It is just that you and Nicole are in such a fragile state right now. The blow-up seems life-threatening. <P>Maybe you two need to quit talking about the affair for a while - a moratorium on it! Why spend so much time on what has already happened and can't be erased, unless there is some useful purpose for moving forward? <P>Try to reclaim the fun and plain old enjoyment of each other....that is where you and Nicole will truly begin to reconnect again. <P>Still praying for you both...<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Arik, I have chewed your butt before, so please don't discount my post because of that. Please read my post "what the counselor said and did" Consider it a free session with a great therapist.<P>You are right where my husband is, except his OW has never intended to be with him, she has a husband AND another OM, the boss at the company my h. left. <P>Yet he still pines for their passionate times together. Do I understand? No. Do I want to love him? ouch...I think so, but the love is wearing very thin...I am NOT an endless fount of love and patience, and neither is Nicole, despite her username.<P>love to you both,<P>liz<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

I agree with K!!!!<P>Call Steve! <P>Your marriage CAN BE WONDERFUL!!! It has happened before! Steve is the expert. Call the expert!<P>Prayers for you.<BR>TNT

You NEED HELP!! Really, you can't like who this affair is turning you into. If you have ANY goodness left in you, GET HELP!! If not, well I feel VERY VERY sorry for your future. <BR> <BR> Maybe you REALLY don't have what it takes to "do the right thing" Now I'm sure you'll run to your little OW and she will make you feel like a man. Maybe even a "good man" But somewhere in your heart you have to believe that a "good man" doesn't do this. And SHE is not acting like a "good woman" either think about it hard. <P> But you know what, SHE will find you out too someday. She will look back at what you're doing NOW to your W and kids and be disgusted at who you became. AND NEVER REALLY TRUST YOU AT ALL. For what? Ask yourself. Just ask yourself FORRRRR WHAT?<p>[This message has been edited by PLEASE HELP (edited December 29, 1999).]

Please don't judge Arik unfairly in this. We were both at fault in the arguement and the things that were said and done. <BR>I know that I have to take a look at my plan A tactics and evaluate where I have failed in them. My biggest problem is my need to educate and my lack of true patience. I want to fix things and know that I can't. I can fix my parts but not his.<BR>Patience...patience...patience...<BR>Easier said than done.<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole<P><BR>

Arik and Nicole -- You guys are going through a tough time right now. Given the circumstances, it's impossible to believe that you can go argument-free. With the emotions running at high levels for both of you, if an argument starts, it's likely that one of both of you will say something you later regret.<P>What's important is that you both <B>realize</B> that this stuff can happen. You should try to do everything you can to minimize it, but if there is a slip and you argue and unkind things are said. Try to recognize this and forgive each other. This is the one thing I could never get across to my W was that an attempt at reconciliation would not be pain-free. She seemed to think it was supposed to be. Don't the two of you delude yourselves into the same fantasy. Things are going to hurt, arguments are going to occur. They should fade over time as you work out your problems.<P>Don't ever get discouraged just because things are not as smooth as you would like them to be....<P>Best wishes for the both of you.<P>--DeWayne--

This is to Nicole:<P>Nicole, you must put all of your negative feelings aside. You must only concentrate on meeting Arik's needs. You must keep him in prayer at all times. Everything you do must be for the benefit of your marriage right now.<P>Arik needs to realize that no one will meet his needs the way you and the kids do. Withdrawal is hard, and further contact makes the withdrawal harder. But that is something Arik deals with, NOT YOU.<P>YOU have enough of a plate of work to do, besides demanding that someone else do their work too. NO SELFISH DEMANDS, Arik will come through this eventually. Nicole, if you keep on doing EVERYTHING you can, there will come a time when you will know that it is either working or not. If it isn't working after a period of time, do not threaten, etc. But go to plan B. You concentrate only on what you can do, and leave the rest alone.<P>TNT

Nicole,<P>You need to call Steve Harley. He can help you with the "educating" which is a number one problem for me.<P>Arik,<P>You need to call Steve and get help with working through your addiction to Chrissie. It is over and you are having trouble letting it all go. It is understandable that you are having a rough time...but you need to get the professional help you need in order to get on the right track.<P>Think of it like this: If you had cancer, you wouldn't sit and post on this forum that you have cancer and it hurts and yoou don't know what to do. You'd get your butt to the doctor and get some TREATMENT to give yourself the BEST ODDS for recovery possible! Call Steve Harley and get yourself some treatment for this infidelity cancer!!!!<P>Praying for you both....<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Great analogy, roll me away.<P>Good advice, too.<P>