How do you get a WS to forgive themselves for the A. I am at a loss for ways to go. My W is still in the fog , but I believe coming out of it. I did not know where in the process she was when I foolishly gave her an ultimatum at the beginning of March. We had a talk over the weekend and I found out that she has tried to end it with the OM. He has since called her ,"just to talk" and she is mad at herself that she didn't tell him not to call again. I told her that As long as I felt she was trying I would not proceed with the D. I don't think she wants a D , she says she loves me, but I am afraid she will go through with it because she can't forgive herself. She has an aversion to counseling, so that for the moment is out of the question. I am worried about her state of mind. Last night I told her I felt she needed a safe and comfortable place right now and I want her to have that at home. Since the weekend, she has become distant and seems to have trouble looking me in the eye. She says that she had trouble with me doing anything nice for her. It's almost like my minds made up... don't confuse me with the facts. Any and all advise on How to forgive yourself is appreciated. <BR>

Mark,<P>This may not be what you are wanting to hear, but here goes:<P>I've been the WW still in love with her husband. (Now he's the WS.)<P>Why did she stray?<BR>What Needs of her's are you not fulfilling?<P>Right now you are judging her. You are holding the threat of divorce over her unless she does X.<P>How would that make you feel?<P>She knows she messed up. She may not know why. She may be scared to find out why, or to verbalize it. But I can tell you this much, she's hurting.<P>Doing 'nice' things may not be what she wants right now. Or what you perceive as 'nice' may not be what she needs.....it's what's 'nice' according to you.....satisfies your need to do something for her......it doesn't fulfill her needs.<P>The hurt has to go away. She has to learn to trust herself and to trust you again. She needs to know that you can meet her needs.<P>That's not going to happen with you threatening her.<P>~Amy

Thanks, Amy, I know that I need to do that, but the problem is I did not about MB when I first brought up the D. I have since read as much as I can about it and have given the information to her to look at. I did not know where she was in the a process until Sunday. She has read it, and understands it, but she is filled with such guilt that I can't get her to open up about what needs I am not filling.<BR>I am wanting to find out what those neeeds are, but I don't want to be confrontational anymore

Hello mark,<P>I'm in a similar situation right now. My W had an A and i was in a holding pattern until a few weeks ago. We had one joint counseling session that turned ugly. My W never commited either way and the counselor basically drilled her for not being able to make up her mind. The next day we had a talk and then an argument that got out of control. We both decided that the D was the way to go. Neither one of us is in any emotional state of mind to make that decision at this time, and of course I think it is a big mistake. <P>For now the D is looming sometime after summer. We have small chldren and we both had the idea that we would wait until the fall to proceed with the D for the kids sake. So, I'm running with the assumption that this is the game plan until the next plan takes over. It really has eased tension at our house in the short term. Now the issues have changed and I'm not always focused on the moral, trust and betraial issues that I had before. We just came off of the best weekend we have had in 10 weeks and that adds to more confusion.<P>I love my wife deeply, and if the D happens I will miss her more than she will ever know. I'll be fine, she will be fine and the kids will be fine, but we would be better off all together for many reasons. Most of all, because there is so much love left and the fact that there is so much that is good about being a family. <P>I have stopped talking to her about the issues. We have very little physical contact. I'm working hard to accept what I have now and to move on with just being a good guy. I'm a far better person now that I was ten weeks ago, but as of late it still has not been enough to bring her back. Guilt is a huge part as far as I can tell, but I'm just guessing.<P>Good luck. I'm hopeful but prepared for the worst.<P>

Hello 40 and everyone,<BR>Being in a holding pattern is the worst place to be. I want my husband to let me begin to forgive him. the problem is he won't talk to me. it took me a while to realize how painful our conversations were for him. Seeing me cry over his betrayal makes him want to shut down communication. I will do anything to determine if my marriage is salvagable, even live unhappily with him. Crying myself to self every night has exhausted me to the point of putting my job in jeopardy. He doesn't know about that yet. The truth is I don't care. Perhaps tomorrow I'll start living for me, but today, my broken heart has taken over my existence.<P>I have found some strength in God which is a laugh because He and I have never been close. but He's with me every moment. Really my only friend (with one exception 40!) I will continue to try to find strength through Him. I need it to get up in the morning to go to bed and for every action in between. <P>Sorry for the pity party...it's been a bad 8 weeks. I know you all understand.

Mark, as a WS I know how difficult it is to forgive yourself - I struggle with it every day. D-day was the end of December and the A has been over since then, but I find it very difficult to get past what I've done. I've learned on this board that it takes time to learn to do that.<P>Some days I'm OK and there are other days where I look at my H and hate myself for what I've done to him. I find it hard to believe that he can still love me. Then I feel myself pulling away. In my case, however, I have had NO contact with OM since D-day.<P>I don't think your W will go thru with the D. Be patient, love her, and it will all work out.

Hello again everyone,<P>breakingslowly, I think about you every day. I am very hopeful that you will get things back on track at your end. Sorry to hear about the job.<P>OK, I do have a question for the greater public out there. If you were the WS, would you want attention and affection from your spouse? Of course i get very little from my W right now affection wise, but I have gotten more attention because of my new and improved self. She has taken some genuine intrest in me. She notices the way I act and talk and even the way I look. She has offered to rub my back and even done some other non sexual things for me. What should I give in return? I give her as many hugs as I think she can handle, and give her some kisses too. She and I sleep closer at night, more than we ever have in fact. I would like more, but I'm thinking that it would be too much at this point. I also have thought about going the other way, and pulling all physical contact. I hate the fact that I would be witholding affection, but she has been holding back a lot more than that. I know that I should basically expect nothing from her, but that is so hard to deal with when she is right there in front of me. <P>Do you guys have any ideas?<P>Thanks, 40 <p>[This message has been edited by 40 pounds lighter (edited April 06, 2001).]

delete<p>[This message has been edited by vernon3 (edited May 15, 2001).]

Hi Sherri,<BR>As I read your post here at the office, I want to cry. I am sorry that you are going through this torment too. All I want to do is begin to heal, but hubby (WS) is not there yet. Says he doesn't know if he will ever be. He says he wants to help me, but won't or can't do the things that will help me. I am so thankful for this message board. There is no one that I can tell about my situation. My husband is the person that everyone says is the kindest most decent man on this earth. I would often describe him as the nicest person I have ever met. So sad to be betrayed by this gentle, loving, (formerly)honest man.<P>He is questioning our marriage and in fact his entire life. I hate to see my best friend in such pain with no power to help him. So I stand by and watch. When I can't watch or when I know that my presence causes him pain I leave our home and drive around our community. It hurts so much to see him ache so badly. We have two children who are affected by our actions in this crisis. I feel like such a terrible mother because after all of this pain, there is not much left for them. They are 13 and 16 and quite independent. My heart and prayers goes out to all of you with little ones. All I can say is if we had conversations when they were little ones, maybe we wouldn't be at this sad point in our lives.<P>This past week including today has been awful. My swings are taking over my body and my head is cloudy. I was making progress with food, but now I can no longer eat. I just want to curl up in a ball and drift away.<P>I am trying to give this to God who has been my main source of strength. <P>I am trying to read all I can from this experience. I struggle to get through every minute. I know I must for my marriage but more importantly for myself and my children. <P>Sherri, I will add you to my list when I pray. It hurts me so bad to know that you are in the same situation that I am in. Have you tried making lists of reasons to be hopeful or positive? My list started out very short 8 weeks ago (D-day) but it grows everyday when I let it. Let me know what you think.<P>Sherri, God bless you and your family <p>[This message has been edited by breakingslowly (edited April 09, 2001).]

When I read some of these posts, I realize how much truth thetr is in what my psychologist once told me.<P>She said: "If people would only realize and understand what the put others through by having affairs they won't have them. So very true from what I've been reading.<P>Clyde