I'm not married, but my fiance and I have been together for 7 years, most of them quite good. A few months back I started to change careers, and we had a lot of stresses placed on us, not to mention the wedding coming up in July. About 2 months ago, my fiance started an affair with a co worker. I suspected something was wrong and went through 6 weeks of reaching out to her, sleepless nights, very little food and depression. Just over a week ago, I found out the truth and all the lies that had been coming from her. She is one of the strongest people I know and has always been very anti cheating. I was and still am in total shock and disbelief. We had quite a few discussions since the relevation of it all and she has been living away from the house for about 2 weeks. We have both agreed to try to work on rebuilding our realtionship. But there are some complications....<P>First of all, I want her to move back in. I don't trust her to be away from me, and I want a 'unified' lifestyle, but she wants to take it slow and perhaps date me again (starting all over), while living with a friend. Second, she works 2 jobs and the other guy also works those same jobs. She really loves her jobs and is very good at them... I doubt that she would be willing to leave them. The good thing is that this guy is going home for 2 weeks, giving me a window of opportunity. How can I best take advantage of this, and how do I deal with living apart? I don't feel that living apart during this is right, but how do I approach it? Is it the right thing to do? Help!

Redon,<P>Sorry to hear about your situation. First, have you read about Plan A if not do so. Next read two books His Needs Her Needs and Surviving an Affair both by Harley. These two books will give you a clue about what has happened to your relationship and what can be done to save your relationship.<P>Frankly, your GF is calling the shots. There is nothing you can do to get her back. That is her decision. You can however, do somethings that might make her want to come back. That is what Plan A is about and that is what meeting her needs is about.<P>Frankly, you two are not married and it seems to me that she is making her choices. You may not like them but she is making them and has made them. If I were you I would do the Plan A, and definitely read these two books, BUT I would strongly consider that she isn't not a woman you want to be married to.<P>What would change my mind? She would have to meet my needs, she would have to show remorse, and she would have to leave those jobs. You see affairs are often likened to addictions and if you are around the person you had the affair with the odds are high that it can reignite. Even more importantly, the "Fog" of the affair and the presence of the OM, will cloud her vision of you.<P>Take your time, do your homework, and see if she decides that being married to you is something she wants. Even if that is the case you two both need to understand why this happened and learn how to take steps to prevent it from happening again.<P>At this point she doesn't sound mature enough to be considered marriage material. I do hope that the wedding has been canceled or at least delayed. The odds are almost overwhelming that you two won't be ready to marry by July no matter what.<P>I am sorry to sound so down about this, but you two aren't married yet and marriages do put strains on people, life puts strains on marriages. If this is her response to strain in your relationship, then I think you have been blessed by God that you know what you know now, rather when you have children and the many obligations of marriage.<P>So take your time, but be aware you now know that she is very likely not the right woman to marry. It will take a long time to heal from this, so take it and use it well.<P>You may not appreciate what I am about to tell you, but she may just have done you a hugh favor. Actually a series of them. You may have found out that she is not the woman you need in your life although you love her dearly. Second, if you do Plan A and become much more educated on relationships and the requirements of marriage, you will very likely have a wonderful married life with someone who deserves you.<P>Do the homework, come ask more questions, open the communications with GF, and most of all LEARN. You will be so glad you did.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Thanks for the reply, JL. Some things I need to clear up...<P>She has left this other guy and was completely honest with me for the first time in a long time the other day. Now in reading through the website, I've found something difficult to reconcile. I'd agree that she has to show remorse, meet my needs and leave those jobs.... but, that's my 'taker' talking. How can I ask these things without 'love busting'? If she's committed to trying to work these things out, how much can I ask? If I let her call the shots, I'm showing her only love and am trying to lead her back to those feelings about me. It's like a catch 22, to work through this, I need to have her leave those jobs and make a clean break, but how can she do that without a committment to me? And to get that committment, I have to let her do her own thing... to let her find the 'giver' in herself. So making demands will only push her away and make things worse.... Any strategies for that? Thanks.

Ah Redon,<P>The logic of it all. Well, I don't know the correct answer, but I will give my best guess here. If you read Harley's works one thing he finds is that often affairs resume and relationships don't get rebuilt if the OP is still in the picture at all. That is not to say good things cannot happen if there is contact,but the statistics don't offer a very rosy prospect for this.<P>You cannot demand that she do these things. You can "sugest" that she change jobs for the reasons I cited above. But I think you are getting the cart before the horse here. You don't ask her to meet your needs, she needs to decide to do that or the relationship is over. You might counter with : "She doesn't know my needs." Right. <P>So here is the deal. The two of you need some counseling. With that I would suggest to you that part of rebuilding your relationship is learning alot more about relationships. Both of you read His Needs Her Needs and Surviving an Affair. These two books offer quite abit of information that the two of you can discuss. BECAUSE you two need to use POJA and the 4 rules for a good marriage. They are very common sense, but read about them here.<P>You see both of you will need to rebuild this relationship. You will have to regain trust in her. You will have to decide if she is stable enough to marry, something I do have a doubt or two about. You will have to find out where you failed and why that led to an affair rather than her talking with you.<P>You see you are learning something you will need in a marriage: YOU CANNOT DEMAND ANYTHING. It doesn't work that way. The marriage vows give neither of you the "right" to demand anything. They are promises made by you to your spouse. Period. They are promises made by your spouse to you. They are public and in most cases before God and family. However, there is no enforcement of those promises. It is your integrity and love that holds a marriage together.<P>So ask her to join you in reading this material. If she won't; you have your answer my friend. Also expect that she is going to go up and down on this marriage. It is known as the "roller coaster" around here for reasons you will discover I am sure.<P>But most of all, look deep into yourself and your GF before even thinking about getting married. The only thing dumber than her affair would be you marrying her when all signals and I mean ALL signals are not go.<P>She has a lot of learning and healing to do. So do you. Do cancel the wedding for right now, or at least postpone it. It will remove the pressure for her to agree to the marriage to save face. You don't want her coming back 10 years from now saying "I felt forced into the marriage because I didn't want to let my family down, my friends down, etc." <P>Don't worry these are direct quotes from the betraying spouse handbook. There really is one. Read NSR's general welcome post in the "Just Found Out" section, many of the things you need are bookmarked there. But one of things bookmarked there is quotes form OP. They all say the same thing, just read here you will see.<P>In any event I hope I have helped you out of your conundrum.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>

JL, again, thanks for the post. To answer some of your comments, yes, the wedding has already been postponed until next year.... but even that's a question mark. And I know only too well of the 'roller coaster'... I've been riding it for too long and it's making me ill.<P>I went to my first counselling session today, which was good. Now it's a matter of 'suggesting' the same for her. I guess what she decides will be a measure of her committment to make this work.<P>It's unfortunate that she's still living that fairy tale. That's what I'm fighting against here.<P>Say, are there any good links here that I could give her to read, something that illustrates that point well? I would hate to see our lives ruined because she thinks she's found something 'perfect'? Something that was based on lies to begin with, something that is non committal by nature, and something that has yet to stand the test of time? Thanks.

Welcome <B>Redon</B>...<P><B>JL</B>... as always... had given you superb advice...<P>Here is the link that was suggested...<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000553.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A>.<P>Where can you find alot about what the forum members pass on about their experiences... check out... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000554.html" TARGET=_blank>Notable Posts/Threads</A> and maybe <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000558.html" TARGET=_blank>Other Useful Sites</A> too!<P> <P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>Jim</A> / <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037.html" TARGET=_blank>NSR</A>

Redon,<P>Why not send her to this site to read. She doesn't have to know you are posting here. But the general articles might be of great use to her.<P>It is a thought.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

I learned something rather disturbing the other day. And I need some advice on how to continue with Plan A. I found out that this OM was once betrayed by his fiance... he has been in my shoes,... and then I learned that his last 3 g/f... make that 4.... were all involved in other relationships at the time and went back to their men. What kind of sick thrill does this guy get out of it?? How does this man deserve my fiance's heart? I don't care about their feelings for each other... my fiance is a very easy person to love, but this SOB doesn't deserve her. He came between her and me, friends and family, he took away our innocence and her inner beauty. And I absolutely hate him for it.<P>She's broken it off with him, but they work together all the time. She's not living with me at the moment, and I wonder how long she can continue to work with him with me out of the picture without those feelings for him coming back. She says she wants to start fresh again with me, but she's not ready to move back... There's so much I want to say to her about this, but I don't, in an effort to make what little time she has with me, good time.<P>But something interesting has come from her: a little bit of anger towards me. Is she mad at me because it makes the betrayal easier? Is she mad because I am ending her perfect little world? Any interpretations?<P>So this is my plan, and I'd like some feedback. Without prompting her, I'd like to see:<P>1) Her create a distance between him and her while at work and otherwise.<BR>2) Her to make the effort to attend councelling with me.<BR>3) Her to receive my efforts at reaching out to her without her pushing me away or sabotaging them.<P>This last one, I am just about done with. I'm about ready to just sit back and let her come to me if at all. In a positive note, I learned that the OM called her 3 days ago and wanted to go for a drive and talk.... she said no.<P>I'm going to be moving out of the house at the end of May... my fiance has been talking of us getting a new place together then, but I'm also looking at options for myself. I think that would be a good opportunity for Plan B.<P>I don't want to let her throw away the good times and years we've shared because her head is in the clouds. Do I tell her about this guy's past g/fs... if she doesn't know yet? How does my plan look? Should I be talking to her, or let her call the shots? Thanks, all.<p>[This message has been edited by Redon (edited April 23, 2001).]

What I would suggest you do is forget her and move on. Be glad that you were not married to her when she cheated on you. Her actions showed you what kind of person she is. If you close your eyes to that the chances are you will be reliving this drama all over again especially if your marry her.

Easier said than done, max... but today I find myself moving in that direction.<P>I need to work on this or move on. I don't feel that we are working on it. Every day that goes by, I feel a distance growing between us. I find it easier to just say, 'screw it'. I told her this and she realizes that she is risking losing me,... even though she says that isn't what she wants. But at the same time, she's putting the relationship in jeopardy again. Looks to me like the writing is on the wall.<P>The hard road to working it out seems less and less attractive than just starting fresh. But at the same time, I don't think I am giving this a chance... D-day was only 3 weeks ago. Any ideas?