I'd like to know, those of you BS's who've tried Plan A, how did you FEEL about carrying it out, on a gut level? I'd very much appreciate responses from those with strong personal faith, but also from persons who are not necessarily believers. I ask because I find myself vacillating wildly and I'm trying to understand it. There are times when I feel absolutely convinced that this is the "right" path, deep inside, I feel like God has sent me the answer so many times and in so many ways, that doing the best Plan A I can is the right thing to do, no matter what the outcome. I feel peaceful, good about myself and loving toward my H (WS). Then, boom, I will crash and get cynical and tell myself, I'm just feeling good because when I'm expressing care and tenderness towards my H (and esp. when he responds positively), it stirs up all the love of the past and all sorts of hope for the future and I'm just setting myself up for yet another fall. I guess before the A., life and the moral choices I faced were more cut and dry...I may not have always acted the way I should have, but on a gut-level I knew what the right course of action was. I truly don't know now--what have been your experiences with Plan A? I know from SAA and postings on this board, that it is not easy and often frustrating...but did you know instinctively when it was right and when it was time to give up, if that ever came about? Many thanks, octavia99

Octavia99<BR>I am going through exactly what you are with Plan A. It has been 2 months since D-day. I am not a believer in God, but I do have great faith in myself. I must admit that I am in a depression, which makes me have bad thoughts on occasion, (replaying the ugly details over and over in my head), but working hard to overcome it. I have good days and bad. My husband wants to rebuild our marriage and is working very hard to prove it. He was in a 2+ year relationship with a woman who thought they had a future. She had no idea that he was still married and living with me. (long story)It was like he was living a double life. He says there has been no contact, and I want to believe him. Like you, I am trying to fulfill all his emotional needs, but sometimes feel I am setting myself up to be hurt again. I wonder when the other shoe will drop! My husband assures me each day that I am his one true love and wants to grow old with me. I want so much to believe him, but when he was in the middle of his affair, he used to tell me the same thing! Anyway, I know Plan A is the right thing to do now. Keep the faith and hang in there.

...<p>[This message has been edited by octavia99 (edited July 02, 2001).]

octavia,<P>I'. 1 month past d-day and smack dab in the middle of Plan A. I will say that it is VERY TOUGH but done properly, does work. I struggled at first, love busting and violating the plan, but my turning point was when my W(WS) told me she thought it was working! I was actually amazed, I hugged her and we had a little cry and I haven't love busted since. In fact, things haven't been better since that day. We've had spectacular sex and just over all enjoyed each others company. I have been meeting all the emotional needs I knew I was lacking and things have been great.<P>W said she "loved" OM and me as well. She described it as different, not better. The best way to describe it (and W agrees) is "romantic love" and "true love". What WS feels for OP is romantic love, that immediate, intense sensation we all have when we meet somebody new. Just like you did when you met your spouse. They are having that and the deeper love for you at the same time. As we all know, romantic love fades into deeper love, a stage not many relationships survive. Don't throw away what you've spent time building, work on what you already know you have and make it stronger or "re-kindle" it. Meet those ENs and be the best partner you can be. In time when the fog clears, you'll see a change.<P>I also think that the WS should be aware of Plan A and it's function, especially if the WS has dedicated themselves to recovery. It kind of opens their eyes a little. My W has been so responsive and things are great, good luck<P>SP<p>[This message has been edited by scarlet pumpernickle (edited April 23, 2001).]

Congratulations and best wishes on your continued success, SP. Your story is VERY encouraging, especially since you are just one month past d-day. I think you are a much better Plan A-implementer than I've been so far. At first I didn't know about it, but sort of stumbled onto that approach on my own; when I read SAA, I was hopeful, but found it very difficult not to LB, esp. because the deceptions by my H had been coming at me in a series of rude shocks. I believe he truly wants things to work this time, and he does know about Plan A--oddly, it was what he suggested all along, also before knowing about the Harleys' approach. Maybe there is hope! Thanks for the encouragement, octavia99

Hi Octavia:<P>Here's some thoughts.<P>In the Bible, we talk about the battle of flesh versus sprit. Dr. Harley refers to these as the taker versus the giver.<P>The "flesh" is negative... negative emotions, attitudes, and actions centered in self that are actually destructive to one's own self as well as to others.<P>The Bible talks about the "spirit" of anger... the "spirit" of timidity... the "spirit" of lust, etc.<P>Biblically, what we feel at an emotional level has a spiritual root.<P>Imagine spiritual purity... love, joy, and peace... the fruits of the Spirit... to be clear water... pure and good.<P>Imagine that your soul is a vessel... like a jar.<P>When it is well with your soul... the waters of your soul (your mind, your will, your emotions) are clear, pure, and filled with the love of God. Clear water. You think lovely thoughts... have faith, peace, joy, and comfort. The Holy Spirit is moving through your emotions, your mind, your will... from your spirit.<P>But then... imagine that sin (the power of negative emotions, experiences, attitudes, actions) hits.<P>Imagine that your vessel is hit... takes on the dark waters of pain... and your soul (mind, will, emotions) are breached by the dark forces of sin, hurt, and pain.<P>At that moment... it's as if a vase filled with water developes a leak... and through that leak... comes pain.<P>Imagine pain to be like the dark ink that an octopus spits out when faking death.<P>When your vessel is hit... and breached... that pain, that ink, those negative emotions... enter your vessel... and cloud the waters of your soul.<P>Suddenly, things don't look the same. Your soul is impacted. Your mind, your will, your emotions, are effected.<P>You don't feel the same. You don't think the same. You don't have the same hope... the same joy... the same peace. Things are different... on the inside.<P>Your decisions are impacted.<P>Suddenly, you are struggling with... thoughts, feelings, behaviors... that would seem so wrong... if you were filled with joy. : )<P>The waters of your soul have been darkened by the power of sin... waters clouded by hurt and pain.<P>The Bible says to stand firm with the shield of faith and expel and stand against the deadly arrows of the enemy. Expel... by faith... negative emotions that become attitudes and actions.<P>This is the goal of sanctification.<P>Biblically, those thoughts that now begin to assault your faith and your mind... are not you. An outside invader has gained access and begins to torment your soul. <P>You have been wounded by the enemy. Through the breach you have suffered... he now seeks to make a stronghold... so that he can begin to move through you.<P>He wants control of your mind, your will, and your emotions. He wants you to begin acting out your hurt, your anger, your frustration, depression, unbelief, discouragement... all of which are not us... but the power of sin at work in our lives.<P>I call him... "Satan". (He's a loser.) <P>Some glad morning when this life is over... there will be no more hurt, no more sickness, no more pain, no more death. That wicked serpent, Satan, who somehow has being in the power of sin (negative emotions, actions, attitudes, behavior)... will no longer be able to breach my soul.<P>I will see him cast into a lake of fire. I will experience perfect love, perfect peace, perfect joy.<P>ALL OF MY NEEDS WILL BE MET IN CHRIST.<P>My soul shall be satisfied with His likeness. I will see Jesus... face to face. <P>He is risen. He lives. He lives inside of me. I have the Spirit. I have the victory in Jesus. Satan has NOTHING in Him.<P>I shall overcome.<P>As you stand against Satan... who has brought sin and temptation... TAKER ON THE LOOSE. You wrestle for your own sanctification that you may destroy his evil works and power of sin as you walk in love. <P>Your emotions bear the imprint of hope and joy in Christ. You suffer hurt and pain as you go through your trial.<P>That's my perspective.<P>We are called to rise above the enemy. Walk in love. Walk as Jesus walked. We overcome evil with good. We are the body of Christ. Satan hath no power over us.<P>This is the call of the gospel. This is our victory... even our faith.<P>Jesus is walking with us. God is carrying us in His victorious right hand. We have overcome. Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father.<P>(I get excited about the gospel. It's such good news! : ) )<BR>God bless.<P>In Christ,<P>Laura<P>Thank you Jesus!<P>

Octavia, the thing about plan A is that you feel it's the right thing for you. That you want to do it.<BR>Yes there are many moments where we really think it's time to give up, but as long as we can see at least one small - tiny even - positive thing, we can recharge.<BR>Does Plan A always works? Nothing ever works I guess. SO many things are part of the equation...It worked for me and for some others in here. It wouldn't work for others.<BR>It's important that we know both ourselves and our spouse well enough to kind of be able to predict what reactions we will get with each plan.<BR>I can tell you that with my h plan B would totaly ruin any chances we might have. He would take me on it, and even if later he felt he had made a mistake he would never go back, no matter what.<BR>DId plan A feel right all the time? Well there were times were I though that would be it - like that time after he told me she was out of the picture and then got a parking ticket at 1a.m. right in front of her house, or the one where he told me that trying to work out the problems wouldn't work not because it was impossible but because he didn't want to - but overall I would say that it felt right. Mostly because it was my choice to go ahead with it - this is actually before we started calling it plan a and plan b,and even before i found this board.<BR>It's important that you understand that no matter how difficult the situation seems, and how powerless you are, the decision on what to do is still yours. That is your power, to be able to decide what you want to do.<BR>As for me, well I'm on my third year after the affair. Our marriage is better than ever and I"m a firm believer of using plan A whenever possible or applicable.<BR>It might be a bit dificult and you have to be certain that you really want to go ahead with it, but it can really work.<BR>It seems to work a bit better in medium lenght affairs than in short ones - let's say a one night thing or something like that. Affairs that happened because somehow the couple had started drifting apart without even realizing it. But this doesn't have to be a rule.<BR>Hope this helps<BR>Hugs<P>------------------<BR>"Each and everyone of us is deserving of a gentle thougth, a kind word and the gift of understanding"

...<p>[This message has been edited by octavia99 (edited July 02, 2001).]

Hi Octavia:<P>I am reading the books by Dr. Harley... and a recent series of teachings at church on anger have so been helping me. I have separated myself from my situation (Plan B). Like you... the encouragement I receive I know is no accident.<P>The point was raised again (in church) that being in an emotionally supportive environment helps... and things that strengthen our inner being... our spirit... help us to stay strong and resist those taker's instincts. In hurt, I know, is the desire for revenge. It's human, it's normal, it's natural... and it's something to overcome.<P>Getting in that positive flow... and remaining whole... that's the goal.<P>God blessings to you in Christ.<P>Laura

Thank you laura_lee, I appreciate your thoughts. Since I first posted this topic, I have been staying with Plan A and actually started to feel very good about things...the thoughts that used to trigger so much pain are actually becoming less frequent and I'm not as upset by them when they do occur. So I do believe this is the right thing in all respects. I am about to be "tested" again shortly...my H is coming out to join me for work here on our joint project (I've been Plan A-ing long distance recently), so I hope I can continue to be strong and be loving when we are really together. It may be more difficult if more evidence of lies, or even just normal stresses, come up. I will remember the encouragement and good advice I've received from the MB forum (will be out of internet touch for a long time after a couple of days...I will really miss it and hope I have good news to report when I can log on again!) God bless you and thanks again! octavia99

Hi <B>octavia99</B>...<P>I agree whole heartedly with <B>laura_lee</B>...<BR>...she said it so beautifully!<P>Stay the course...<BR>This is my message... from one who went through Plan A...<BR>...then Plan B... and is now divorced!<P>Don't let the last one(divorced) discourage you.<BR>I am a success story!<P>People must face reality... and for all to many of us... divorce will be the end result.<P>I'm here to tell you...<BR>...it can be OK!<P>Follow your heart... but more importantly... follow the laws written on your heart from God. It won't steer you wrong... ever!<P> <P>Jim