Ok, as some of you may know I'm 1 month past d-day. I've implimented Plan A and am having great sucess (even W agrees). For some reason, I keep obsessing and want to ask if W and OM exchanged gifts/cards since A spanned Christmas and Valentines day. I posted a message earlier asking everyone if I should ask. People responded that it would be a love buster and not to bother (yet), instead, send her a card yourself or do something special, which I did. I sent her a card at work and planned an entire romantic evening w/ dinner, wine, candles etc (which went very well). <P>I'm having success not LBing by not asking about the A but this topic keeps haunting me. I know that the answer will more than likely upset me and her and will have absolutely no positive effect on our recovery but I KEEP OBSESSING over this...aaaaaahhh. Why? The only reason I can think of is maybe she still has these "things" (if any) and is keeping them as momentos of OM. <P>What do I do? As part of Plan A, let it go or very carefully breach the subject? HELP.<P>Thanks all.<BR>SP

Hi SP,<P>I want to tell you about what I did. I had one very long conversation with the OM's wife. It is the only one I plan to have with her but we both needed some answers from the other person. She was able to give me info from the cards my W had given to the OM. When I heard some of those things, I was floored. I'm not sure that I can ever recover from what I heard. The sad thing about knowing all the facts is that when they are yours, they are yours for life. <P>The OM's W had already gone on a seek and destruct mission all over their house for anything that came from my state. It was all destroyed on her end. I found a few things on my end and took care of them, but my W has a stock pile at work that I don't have access to. I can justify getting rid of all reminders in the house, as I don't need the added aggrivation of seeing it day to day. I have asked her what she will be doing with the items at work, she doesn't know at this time but says she has them packed away. I have asked her to consider throwing them away, but only once. To my knowledge, she has not disposed of the items she has there. I do know tht before I had a chance to dispose of all the items in our house, that she went through and took some of it to work where she thinks I can't get to it. I can get to it, but I'm not willing to go down that road right now. I will leave that until there is no hope left and then take it all. <P>Be carefull not to read or see any of the items that she may have gotten from the OM. But I am a firm believer that she needs to let go of them if you have any chance of moving on. And I also think that they need to be disposed of right in front of you, even if all you see is a big box that contains it all. I'm not sure that the details will do you any good. In my case, they just hurt me that much more and now I will carry them forever within me.<P>Good luck.<P>Rob

SP,<P>I do think you need to talk about the affair and many details of the affair.<P>You said <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I'm having success not LBing by not asking about the A but this topic keeps haunting me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, the topics are haunting you, not so much for the grim details but because you don't know where you stand. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I know that the answer will more than likely upset me and her and will have absolutely no positive effect on our recovery but I KEEP OBSESSING over this...aaaaaahhh. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Talking about the affair will hurt, but it will also help clear the air, allow you to know who you are married to, and permit her to see that she must do some work in this relationship. Talking about it is not for the purpose of showing how hurt you are, she will never understand that. But she must face many issues she side stepped by having the affair. You must face many issues that put the marriage in the state where the affair seemed like a good idea to her.<P>You will find that the WS does not want to talk. Surprise, surprise. I mean they have had a lot of time to deal with the situation, make their accomadation, excuses, etc. You have not. You more than anything thing will need honesty from her, and you won't ever know if you are getting her honesty unless she talks about the affair. <P>Simply put there are issues that must be discussed and discussed honestly, or it will fester in your marriage and destroy it. THat is why the Harley's and others push Honesty in the recovery phase.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Why? The only reason I can think of is maybe she still has these "things" (if any) and is keeping them as momentos of OM. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There is a tendency for the WS to not completely let go. Often this happens in the natural course of things. But from reading here it seems to happen better when "discussion", not yelling, is taking place. Finally, you need to talk to her about these tough things so that she knows you can handle her being honest. For the rest of your marriage you want her coming to you and talking, telling you her feelings, feeling safe to do so. It is probably the strongest preventive measure you can take to keep your marriage strong.<P>So talk, but mostly listen, don't judge. Try to understand from her perspective what happened. Finally, often in recovery as the WS becomes more confident in the marriage they will bring up aspects of the A to discuss, but usually only to find out how you are doing. Harley, points out that in many cases the WS never apologizes although they are sorry for what they did.<P>So do some talking, ask questions. One of the techniques used successfully is to set aside some time for discussions, with a defined limit. THen to prevent asking the same quesition over and over again, it has been found effective to write the questions out. This gives you a time to consider if this is something you really want to know, as opposed to something that you want to know but will really hurt you. Further, it gives the WS a chance to see, think, and respond to a specific question.<P>Some things to think about.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Dear SP<P>Gifts is a real problem - I know about gifts H has given OW because i have snooped - credit card a/cs etc. Frankly, I wish I had not. What I disovered is that H gave OW gifts that reflected ME . This has taken me some time to digest believe me. When the A began he gave her a c,. of a book we were both reading. He gave her a CD with my favourite opera by my favourite singer. He also gave her some jewellery from the store I most frequent (is that dumb or what??); and most recently he gave her some luggage - which just happens to be the same as the matching set of luggage he has given me over the years !! So - what does one make of that ?? Maybe a psycho-analyst could tell but I cannot. I also happen to know he has taken her to our favourite restaurant - the head waiter told me!!! - Sometime I fantasise about phoning her and telling her all of this - ie how he gave her presents that reflected me - but I know I wont do that really.;<P>The gifts cause me a great deal of anxiety but, truthfully, in the bigger scheme of things I dont really think it matters - gifts in this case seem to me to be a manifestation of the complete stupidity of being in la la land - I am trying to put the gifts (as much as they bug me!!) behind me and concentrate on where we go from here. <P>A straightforawrd but relatively simple suggestion - can you just focus on the big picture for a bit? What would knowing do for you except cause you some pain. My guess is that , right now, you could do without that.<P>Take care<P>R

Rosebrook,<P>I know your right, knowing will do absolutely nothing for our recovery, I can't help obsessing about it. I read a post by someone, I forget who, but they suggested that when things enter your head you dont' want there to all the sudden picture a huge immediate STOP SIGN. As crazy as it sounds, it kinda works <P>I did ask W last night if she was happy with the way things are going...she said YES! That response seems to clear the slate and make things easier for me.<P>Thanks all..<P>Keeping a stiff upper lip<BR>SP