After talking with my W last night, it dawned on me that she has been keeping a facade for a host of different relationship/interactions with various people. She told me that she couldn't pretend to be my W by sleeping in our bed (she is sleeping on the hide-a-bed in our couch). <P>I know ladies like to do the team/community/togetherness thing because God has emotionally wired you that way moreso than men. My question is this: Do you put up a facade for every relationship be it friend, coworker, etc. that you are involved in? I ask it because she told me somewhere along the way she lost her identity in trying to please me. She also made a statement about people being phony and kissing peoples behinds. The losing her indentity coupled with the phoniness that she was talking about has pronpted the question. <P>Just trying to understand so that I can know how to approach her since she want answer the questionnaires to give me the feedback I have asked for during the 14 years that I have known her.<P><P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Is your wife's name Sybil?<P>HA HA HA HA just kiddin'<P>I don't feel like I put on a facade for different relationships. I'm the same at home, at work, at church, in the affair, in the marriage, etc. etc. etc. (which means I'm pretty darn transparent)<P>Sorry. Guess I'm not much help, huh?

Rob,<BR> I'm not sure if this is the same thing you are talking about or not, but here goes,<BR> I have a habit of trying to be what I think people want me to be, partly because I am (unfortunatly) a people pleaser, it stems from the way I grew up. Do you understand, I feel like I have to be "on" ie, be nice, friendly. funny, forgiving, loving, patient all that good stuff, but sometimes I just blow it really bad. I do it all I can then I just explode. Not good. btw, did you get my email ?<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Well, I guess you could say that I do that, without realizing it.<P>It's really not people pleasing, though. I guess my behavior changes based on the groups I associate with....<P>For instance, when I'm working, I may be myself - but I am not as open about my feelings about "stuff", and I certainly am much more polite than I am at home. I think I take my guard down at home - but I still am polite - boy am I having a hard time explaining this one.<P>Then I have friends. It is a different level of intimacy that I guess - I change who I am.<P>I mean, I may kid my kids about something and certainly wouldn't think of doing that with some of my friends...???<P>Make sense?<P>

I don't know if I can answer your question, but I can tell you about me. I don't think I put up a facade, but I don't share every aspect of myself with everyone I know. I just don't care to share everything with everyone unless it applies to the situation I'm in. I do know women, however, that appear to put up facades. Since women are typically taught to be nice and put other people's needs before there own, I think it's easy to lose one's identity. <P>I'm sorry for your W if this has happened to her. She CAN learn to be true to herself and still be respectful of others needs and feelings. She won't fill out the questionnaires? Sounds like she's got a real problem expressing her needs. Just guessing.<BR>

I'm the same everywhere I go... I'm told that I'm honest to a fault (by everyone but my H, of course, given my recent betrayer status), and I tell everyone more than they need to know about me. Everyone knows everything. I am working on finding a privacy line. When I was young I played the clown and tried to please everyone. Didn't work. I still want to please people in my life, but not to the detriment of my heart and soul. I'm learning that everyone can't be trusted with my heart, so I'm learning to hide a part of myself. It's been hard to do.

I am myself with everyone except my husband. I'm working on being myself with him.

Professorg, <BR>First of all was she the betrayor or the betrayed? Is she shy? or was she as a child? Has she ever been good about expressing her needs, desires? What the background?<BR>I'd say don't push her to much right now. Sounds like maybe a butterfly trying to emerge. She may look at you as an obsticle to her emergance. My brother and I were both very shy children. I came out of it quicker because we moved from out in the country and the town we moved to I became very popular in my teens. I still struggle with the shyness thing but not like my brother, he is going through it now at 47. It involes feeling of not being able to stand up for yourself, deserving anything for yourself, worthwhileness (IF word,)expressing feelings and many other factors. Don't force her but be there for her as she emerges, encourage her without expecting to much from her until she figures it out for herself. My brother is going through this much needed process after years of living with a very controlling W. She is now trying to figure out what is wrong with him but has figured out to back off until he finds himself.<BR>I hope this wasn't to confusing and can help you. From someone who's been there.<BR>Ginn

Thank you all. It has been driving up the wall because I have for some time felt that she was trying to be pleasing and thus not being the real her. It explains why I have been thinking that this was the case.<P>Maya, I have thought from seeing how she responds to me that she may be suffering from mutilpe personality disoroder or at least be bipolar. I so desperately want to understand her so that I can be the H God and she wants me to be as long as her requests are in synch with His.<P>Deb, I got your email and responded already though not immediately. You sound kind of like my W. She keeps her true feelings in until she can take no more and blows her stack in a major way with me and with everyone else. Wonderful insight though.<P>TNT, it seems from my conversations with other ladies (hindsight) that many (NOT ALL) women do this by their very nature. I'm just trying to get it quasi straight in my head so I can be more effective in meeting her needs which she is having a hard time disclosing those needs provided that she even knows what they are. I think I have gotten better at it than I ever thought I would.<P>Lizbeth, you expressed what I think I am seeing in my W. It is a great help to know that she is feeling what others are feeling. Now, I just need to know how to approach her to take care of her concerns. This relationship stuff is TOUGH. I plan on giving as much of my new found knowledge to my boys so that they will hopefully do a much better job should they decide to ever get married.<P>new beginning, I too am honest to a fault. I am the same every where I go. I guess that is why everyone usually has a problem with me. I try to say things diplomatically without violating my integrity. This gets me in trouble often. She is more private than I am. I know this is part of the tension that exists between us.<P>TA, I think she used to put on the facade for me because she placed me on a pedestal that I didn't want to be on. I wanted to be her equal in every way. I'm sure she put me there because I graduated from USAF Academy which meant that I was an officer and because she was an enlisted person. Officer and enlisted relationships are taboo. Yet, I knew that God wanted me to marry her so I did. I have had no luck in getting her to see me as her equal. I see her as such because she is a very intelligent lady even though she doesn't always think so when she is with me.<P>Ginn, that helps immensely. She is the betrayer. I feel that she is exhibiting some of what you say. The background is that she went through a traumatic experience as a child and did not receive the empathy that she wanted along with her mother taking out her anger on my W because my W's father divorced her for wanting to make him take care of another man's child, my W's younger sister.<BR>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited August 25, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited August 25, 1999).]

I am myself no matter who I am with or what I am doing. Maybe that is just her guilt talking.

I sometimes tend to put a facade on for certain people, but it's usually when I first meet them or around the office. <BR>I don't kiss anybody's a*s, but I'm usually pleasant to people, even when I'd rather not be...especially these past few months.<BR>Sometimes it may take me a while to warm up to people and be myself...usually when I realize that they'll accept me. But, once I have that relationship I no longer feel the need to put on a facade.

Prof,<P>This is very interesting to me. I am definatley a people pleaser, like others have mentioned. I was the 11th child of 13, and I believe that I did whatever it took to be noticed, and appreciated. Nothing hurts me worse than if people don't like me, or God forbid ignore me. Makes me crazy. So yes I am probably guilty of putting up fascades. I am often exactly what people need me to be. I am a master at it and it makes me sad. I wouldn't say it's a split personality necessarily, but sometimes I feel that messed up. I have often told my H that I have a lot of friends but no REAL friends.. Is this similar to your wife?<BR>Addiction and bipolar diorders run in my family, depression too. I think this is an issue I have as well (depression)<P>I can understand what your wife is saying about the way she feels. Lizabeth said something about her [your W] possibly not being able to express her needs...this is me exactly...I am so needy but if you ask me what it is I think I need I can't do it.<P>Have you ever heard of the personality definitions of the enneagram?? I've got some tapes that discribe different personality types and I am a #2 ...<P>Number #2's are people pleasers who get their 'juice' from how others feel about them from moment to moment. They are highly emotional and have difficultly looking at things objectively. They are typically very needy of attention, affection, and need to feel as if they are the most important person to those who they care about.The worst thing you can do to them is probably ignore them. 'I need you' to a two is their favorite thing to hear. (All of this describes me)<P>#2's HATE how needy and emotional they are. On the flip side of needing to be needed they can be fiercely independant. Especially if they are hurt. It's like someone else described .. they 'snap' and the 'taker' kicks in... possibly the 'affair' type situation could be a result - one huge selfish act. <P>Sorry to ramble on but I am wondering if this describes your wife somewhat...The information I have on it is very insightful, and has helped me to understand myself better so I can accept these faults, and work on being more objective...<P>good luck<BR>-janet<P><p>[This message has been edited by rjr #2 (edited August 25, 1999).]

ok rjr, <BR> you just described my whole life execpt that I'm the oldest of 10, never the less where did you get this info? Are you sure you're not me ?<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Deb,<BR>You're funny...weird being one of a pack like us huh? Don't know what to make of yourself do you? I know I don't (about me) <P>Well it is a series of tapes our counselor gave us. Actually taped by a catholic priest but it is not necessarily a 'religous' viewpoint. He references each type personality as a non-redeemed, and redeemed ' #' ...in other words...an example of a redeemed #2 would be Mother Theresa...who learned to give without expecting something back..I forgot that part about 2's...we are excellent at 'loving' people..however, it's sometimes a false love because we are secretly are wondering what we'll 'get back' out of it, instead of truely giving for giving's sake..<P>ANYWAY... I did find some stuff on the web about it which was similar to what he said in the tapes..(http://www.best.com/~asci4d/enneagram/index.html ) gets you to the page I found. I am refering to the 9 personality types...<P>I'm not much into this type of thing usually but as I said earlier it is helped me in some ways to begin to accept myself and work towards some good change...<P> <P>talk to you again<BR>-janet<BR><p>[This message has been edited by rjr #2 (edited August 25, 1999).]

DEB !!<P>Wow just went to that page and this is what it said about #2's....it's dead on (for me)<P>2. The Giver<P>Demand affection and approval. Seek to be loved and appreciated by becoming indispensable to another person. Devoted to meeting others' needs. Manipulative. Have many selves -- show a different self to each<BR>good friend.<P>Well Adapted Twos are genuinely caring and supportive.<P>Ha!...<BR>janet<BR>

Hi Professorg -<P>I agree that there is self-esteem and identity issues with herself. <P>It also sounds like she feels somewhat dominated by you and is skittish to reveal her true self to you or around you.<P>The approach should include encouraging her opinions, thoughts and actions with no comment from you to her as to their correctness.<P>In other words - encourage her to share her thoughts and speak her mind and do what makes her feel good about herself. But don't tell her what those things should be and don't offer your opinion as to what she might want to do instead.<P>Don't let her believe that you're judging her. Even if you think something she says is wrong - don't say so - simply say "I see where you are coming from" or "I understand". Neither one of those statements say that you agree so you would still be being honest and the non-rebuttal will make her start trusting that she will not be put in judgement.<P>Hope this helps.<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

Thanks, you all are confirming what I had concluded. I have been trying to do some of the things that you have suggested. My most recent attempt was to turn over the punishment responsibility to her concerning the boys. She told me I was being overly critical and now she is doing the same if not worse. Some of what she is doing is what she has described from her childhood.<BR><P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

PROF.<BR>I do not put on a facade but I do have a problem with saying no. If someone needs my help, I always say yes and expect nothing in return. My mom get very frustrated with me and calls me a welcome mat. When I met my husband, my parents were in the middle of a divorce. I had a lot of problems and he helped me through them. I had my dreams but realized that I had to change them or atleast post pone them. At first marriage was way out of the question but after a lot of him conviencing and me realizing that I would have to marry or lose my morals or lose him all together, we were married. Slowly my dreams changed more to please him and I know now that I expected nothing in return and eventually he returned nothing. After reading HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS, I know that my needs have not been met for sometime. I actually should have had the affair...laughing.. I worked, took care of the kids, the house, the bills, and even the yard. All he did was work, hunt,play ball, and fish. I hardly ever nagged and if I did I felt guilty and made it up some how. He will tell you the same thing. His affair actually hurt him because I have now woke up and expect my needs to be filled. I disagree with somethings in HN, HN, & SURVING AN AFFAIR. If he wants to stay with me, he is going to start working on our marriage...so far so good.....<BR><P>------------------<BR>INLOVE.....<BR>LOVE HAPPY ENDINGS HOPING WE ALL HAVE ONE...<P>

My problem w/losing me was with all the "roles" becoming overwhelming. I was the wife, mother, worker, volunteer, friend, sister, daughter, etc. Things got out of balance as I became required to do things as opposed to wanting to do them. I can always be counted on, and rarely ask others for help...too independent! I looked up on day and thought, what am I doing just for ME?

I don't put up a facade as much as I adapt to my environment. On the surface this seems like a good trait. It comes from my upbringing....I was taught to act differently around say my elders then around my siblings or my friends. I was myself in all situations, but my level of sharing my thoughts and feelings are different, my politeness index differs.<P>I think however, when faced with this type of challenge in your life, everyone loses their identity. As everything you thought to be true is compromised. I've thought, gee I've adapted myself to his family, with all their quirks and this is how I get repaid?<P>I'm the type of person who tries not to judge others (I say tries because I'm not sure we can ever develop this trait 100%) and I now think.....last year/last week/when we were in college/etc. I supported my friend when she/he when they were doing X, and now I have first hand expereince in the fallout of X. Example, a very good friend of mine was involved with a married man when we were in our early 20's. I never judged her for it, I remember telling her she was playing with fire, but we stayed friends and I was there when she cried her eyes out when it was over. If the same thing was going on TODAY, I'd break off my friendship with her. Make sense?<P>Anyway, that's my take on this