My husband and I became engaged in April of 1999. We married in June 2000. He is an internet developer/web master who works from home. He travels for work about half the time. Since he was working alone much of the time. He usually had his chat window open. He always told me that he was having innocent chats with people.... just needed the conversation and interaction. Over time I realized that something was just not right. On March 22 of this year, I sat down at his computer and started chatting with his "chat buddies". It turns out that all of his chat buddies were women. So far I have chatted with 25 of these women. It seems that 15 of the women were just chat buddies. He was having affairs with the other 10 - cyber, phone. He has met 6 of them in person. Admitted to sleeping with one of them. Says he only had dinner/lunch dates with the other 5. I have not been able to "find" any of the other women on the internet. They seem to nolonger be online so I have no idea if he is telling the turth about the others just being chat relationships or not. These chat and affair relationships range in length from 3 months to 2 years. So the entire time we were engaged and married he had been cheating. At the time I found out, he was in the process of telling them all that it was over. The women have confirmed this. But most of the break-offs had not been "completed" yet. <P> My H told all of the women the same story. He was a divorced dad with custody of his kids. He had a nanny who took care o f his kids. (I guess I'm the nanny.) He never told these women about me and my son. All of the women were going through divorces, custody battles, and other persoanal problems. All of the relationships started out with him being the shoulder they cried on. Most of the women, whether the relationship was just chat or more, felt that he had become their best friend. <P> Not to the point. My H never did a final break-off with these women. It was accomplished by my conversation with each of them. Most of them have told me that they want an apology and explaination from him. He says that there is nothing more he can say. They now know he was a chad, that he is married, and that their relationships are over.<P> According to Dr. Harley. He cheating spouse should send a letter to the lover (in this case lovers) telling them that it is over. It seems that there are two purposes for this letter. The first purpose is to end the relationship. The second purpose is to show support for the injured spouse.<P> All of the affairs so seem to be over. Indeed my H does not even get on chat anymore. So here, after all this talking, is my question. Would there be value in my H sending all of these women a letter like the one Dr. Harley suggests? None of the women knew he was married. Indeed each thought she was the only one. He was promissing all of them a future. If he were to write them this letter should it include an explaination and appology for his lying to them?<P> My H and I have been discussing this. He feels that the break-off has happened. He says he was having trouble doing it because his behavior was so out of character that he could not find the way to undo the hurt he'd caused to everyone. So he was vasilating and trying to let them down easy. Basically he feels that I did what he needed to do and he is sorry for that. But that to pursue this any further would break the Dr. Harley rule of not having further contact with the "other women". (God, that is so hard to say. Not just one women... but 10. And how many more might there be?)<P>I wonder what is the healthiest thing to do. Let it go now? Or should he do something. I realized yesterday that there is a part of me that wants him to do something to show support for me. To show all of these women that he does indeed love and support me. While most of the women have been very nice to me. Some of them were nice to my face (on the phone or chat). They then turned around and im'd him (they do not know that it was me and not him). And told him how they want to maintain relationships with him. How they want to be supportive of him. This, after they knew the entire story and told me that they would never communicate with him again.<P>I will be looking for your advice. <P>Thanks, E

Welcome <B>zorweb</B>...<P>You did good homework... but just FYI... there is a post of general welcome you can use as a reference... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000553.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P><B>About your post</B>...<P>First and foremost... do start and stick to a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>...<BR>Check out my post <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000176.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101 (2nd ed.)</A>.<P>About writing the "no contact" letter...<BR>...yep...<BR>...all 10 should be written...<P>About counseling...<BR>...yep... a definite... think about MB counseling...<BR>...and in it... perhaps some counseling for his sexual addiction... (it is one if you don't know it yet).<P>As per the "book" <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank> "Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A>...<BR>your H (preferably in counseling)... will need to address... what is called the "extraordinary precautions must be taken to guarantee separation"...<BR>(not from the "10"... but from the addiction)<BR><OL TYPE=1> <BR><LI> Changing jobs and relocating (Situation dependent)<BR><LI> Blocking all communication (phone, e-mail, pager, etc.)<BR><LI> Accounting for time<BR><LI> Accounting for money<BR><LI> Spending leisure time together<BR></OL><BR>...all of the above is good... but a step further for "sexual addicts"... having monitoring software on all their computers... a tough decision... but for him to affirm his commitment... it may be needed.<P>Check out <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000556.html" TARGET=_blank>Books</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000558.html" TARGET=_blank>Other Useful Sites</A> for info on "sexual addiction".<P>You have my prayers.<P> <P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>Jim</A> / <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037.html" TARGET=_blank>NSR</A>

Thank you for your reply. I had a feeling that the no contact letter was still necessary. Since my H does not think it is necessary I guess I will need to ask him to do it for me. Does that make sense? <P>The other question I have is should he appologize in the letter for his being dishonest with them? Or should it be the standard letter as printed in Dr. Harley's book?<P>Thanks again, E

zorweb,<P>"I guess I will need to ask him to do it for me."...<BR>...so so... ...kind of...<BR>...be there and give him input to the letters...<BR>...be honest... more honest than you've ever been...<BR>...and hope he appreciates... in time!<P>About your other question...<BR>"should he appologize in the letter for his being dishonest with them?"...<BR>Ask him... hope that the honorable man in him says "yes"...<BR>...if not... gently guide him to the obvious right choice.<P>My prayers for you.<P> <P>Jim

Ny H and I read your responses lastnight and discussed them at length. After our discussion he agreed to write the no-contact letters with the appologies. I know that some people may find this hard to believe, but I do think he is an honorable man. However, even the most honorable of us can find it very hard to face the demons in us. And it is even more difficult to have to admit them to the people we hurt. <P>Thanks again for your help.<P>E<P>

Jim,<P>You mentioned installing monitoring software on all computers. My H and I discussed that last night too. He felt that they would not really prove anything since a computer savy person (we are both software developers) could probably circumvent them. I wonder if monitoring software would give a false sense of security if the person they are supposed to be monitoring could figure out how to get into the history files and delete the entries.<P>Are you aware of any monitoring software that is fairly "hacker" proof?<P>Thanks<BR>E

There is no such thing as "hacker" proof...<P>With that being said...<BR>...<B>still get anyone</B> ( I used WinGuardian )...<BR>...and let it do the "logging"...<P>If the logs are missing....<BR>or ...corrupt...<BR>often enough...<BR>...your suspicions will be fulfilled. <P>It is almost impossible to create a "fake" log...<BR>...and in and of itself will take an exhorbitant amount of work to do!<P>It's cheap enough...<P>If he agrees...<BR>...let him know... you are serious about the huge negative impact of him falling back into it!<P>He must agree to no chats, no IMs , or anything of the like...<BR>...it must be pure "professional e-mailing"...<BR>...with "business" e-mail accounts only!<P> <P>Jim

My H has faced up to the lies and to the fact of what a waste of time the net can be when you are looking for something you will not find ,,, it is just that he feels that he has cut off communication by not using the net for that purpose,,, he no longer has access to his mail boxes since I changed all the passwords the day I put his stuff outside and filed. The question is ,,, is it legitimate answer when they feel that there was no contact there that needs to be cut off... for example... I asked my H the day before yesterday "well dear I know this is a touchie subject but did you ever receive any phone calls from these ladies questioning why you are no longer on the net" (some had his work number) he answers "no,, not a single one" then I say "how do you feel about that?" and he says "I dont really care I didnt have an E attachment to any of these people and I am not suffering from withdrawal like you are" <BR>this was all said with a cool tone and we do not get defensive any more,,, it is just the fact... <BR>he had PA with several people... I had one major EA ,,,<BR>it surprised me that he has noted that I have some withdrawal...<BR>what did I respond to this...????<BR>"As long as my EN are being met and my love bank is full I am ok" <BR>we got some ice cream and went back to the living room to cuddle some more.... <BR>so while he has never written anything to these ladies,,, the contacts are gone as far as I know and he is trying 110% ... <BR>I guess in my case the no contact with a letter is not necessary? guess that is the question..<P>I posted this on In Recovery and <BR>Zorweb said that you had answered here about this same issue... I guess since my situation had gone on for 7 years and I finally hit rock bottom and I filed for Divorce my situation "feels" different to me than Zorwebs in that I did much confrontation and boundry work all that time and he just didnt think I would walk away,,, from the day I let him back in I have seen a different person than I had in the last seven years and I do not see that same person who denied everything and played games with me... <BR>seems that seeing the final aftermath and me filing has made him finally come to his senses... I guess for me ,, while I was trying to follow the MB principals to the letter,, I do think that there are some instances that the no contact letters are not necessary expecially since for my H having to admit to his parents that he had committed adultery was a bigger step than writting letters to people he felt he owes nothing to... he is fulfilling his promise to me directly every day in every way and writting the letters doesnt mean anything to him and since I am a ws also,,, I have the ability to see it from his side also and I had to do the letter thing to the OM I had the EA with. <BR>I guess in our situation we have each taken responsibility for our actions and have made ammends ... does this make sense?<BR>C1

You have a good point about being able to tell if there is a problem just by the fact that the log files are messed with. Very good point. <P>I also get from what you are saying that I should not sneak and install the software. Sounds like this is based on the Total Honesty issue.<P>My H was not overly receptive to the monitoring software when we discussed it last night. That did not make me feel very good.<P>He also gave me the passwords to 4 of his email accounts. I have dicovered about a dozen more on other services. He says he set several of those up when he was teaching web classes to demonstrate how to do it. He also says that he does not remember the passwords. I feel very uneasy about the fact that all those accounts exist. Even if they did not exist, it would be so easy to create others. To create another identity. I am very scared that he could continue this behavior for years without my knowing about it.<P>I don't want to spend my life in fear of him repeating the deceptions. I also do not want to spend my life having to spy on him to feel safe. Guess that's why I like the idea of the monitoring software. I could check it once in a while. There is also the issue that he has a lap top that he uses on his trips. It belongs to his employer. He has given me the password for the PC sitting on his desk but says that he cannot give me the one for work. I know that he has used the lap top extesively while traveling to carry on his affairs. What do people do in this situation. I would like to have the monitoring software on that too. I understand that propietry issues of a password on a company computer. But he could log on and then let me look. Does this make sense?<P>I hate not trusting. It is a terrible feeling. Until I discovered his affairs I trusted him totally. <P>By the way, I wanted to express to you how glad I am that I found the MB books and web site. This forum has helped me so much in the last few days. Keep up the good work.<P>Thanks,<BR>E<BR>

Zorweb<BR>I know how you feel and I too have issues with the fact that a really intelligent person can figure out how to do what they want to do if they want to continue deceiving.<P>How have I gotten past this? well he got away with it for years and the signs that I saw I turned my face to hoping they would go away... so you have to face some of the things you see that dont jive... <BR>in our situation we have made an agreement that nothing gets deleted from the temporary internet files and cookies unless we are both there. One of the major signs that I saw and didnt want to confront him with.. I played games with him on this one instead...<BR>The other thing about computers being everywhere ,,, and how do you just trust... <BR>here you have to use your intuition and I know my H was moody and unhappy and would lash out at me for dumb stuff... does he do that now? NO... you know why... a clear conscience... we both can sleep at night,,, it is hard for me to describe here in words,,, but you just know by the way your relationship goes if there are still issues out there not being addressed... <BR>My H also has access at work and we both work for the same company in different divisions,,, the access is such that you cant chat,,, but you can email... so eventhough he has been blocked from using the emails he had,, he could have created more... what did I do? I asked him if he had created others? and I watched and felt his answer... <BR>I can not monitor this man every day of our lives and I like you do not want to be in a relationship where I have to do this... my H had not stopped doing what he was doing since it was a control issue and he thought I would never leave...... well I guess he doesnt take me for granted now. I waited long and gave him many oportunities,,,but he had never admited to being wrong...<BR>this is my favorite page from this site I cant remember where I copied it from and I hope that person just knows that I appreciated it so much I borrow it and live by it.<BR>Here it goes: Apologies are apologies, amends are amends and forgiveness is forgiveness. For me, they are not the same thing, nor are they interchangeable. <BR>An apology is the awareness that we have hurt someone. An amend is changing the behavior that caused the hurt. Forgiveness is given only when asked for and only with three things present; ( the three R's) - Remorse,<BR>Responsibility (for the behavior) and Reparation. <BR>Forgiveness is not mine to give unless it was asked for. Otherwise I am judging another's behavior and their feelings about the behavior which leaves me vulnerable and open to more hurt in the end. (Especially when I decide they feel remorse when they don't<P>So unless they do the three Rs I guess there is no real remorse...<P>Hope my answer helps you somewhat... and I am sorry for barging in on your thread,,, I just finally read what I had been thinking and didnt know how to articulate at the time..<BR>thanks.<BR>C1<P>

C1<P>You are not barging in at all. I'm here because I want feed back. I appreciate your input, it helps to know how others have delt with the same issues. <P>E