<B>Preface:</B> This is going to be quite a lengthy post. I have a lot to share, and I'm partially doing this for the theraputic value of putting all of my thoughts down. In writing this post, I also hope to answer some of my own questions, organize my thoughts more clearly on this and perhaps help a few others who may be in a situation similar to my own--a situation that I feel is very unique. To any brave soul who actually reads this entire post, thank you! I do have some questions to ask and would <B>highly, highly</B> value any insights or advice in general anyone has to offer! <P>---<P>I have spent the past couple of days pouring over the information on this site. I don't think I've ever had so many "ah ha!" moments in my entire life. I really would like to thank everyone responsible for the information both on site and in these forums, it has been a real source of encouragement for me.<BR> <BR>In fact, this site has been my <B>only</B> source of encouragement; I had actually given up hope on my situation and was slowly going through the cycles of personal recovery, preparing to move on. I am actually far enough along at this point to essentially Plan B right now, without necessarily expecting any outcome--in other words, I had just about reached a point where I was ready to move on with my life when I found this wonderful wealth of information. As I started to read, though, I realized that my reason for moving on was because I felt there was absolutely no alternative and not because I didn't want to try. <BR> <BR>Before moving forward, let me rewind a bit and tell you my story. I am not actually in a marriage, but I find the principles of LBing, fulfilling ENs, and Plan A/B very applicable here, along with lots of the information in the articles and forum posts I've read. <B>This site really has filled me with courage and a new resolve to turn my situation around.</B><BR> <BR>We had been in a committed bf/gf relationship for almost two years. We have been living together for nearly one and a half years, and are still living together now. <BR> <BR>Things were great when we first moved out into the world together. Geographically, we lived far apart from each other and left our respective home towns to start a life in a place that would be new to both of us. We had met on the internet and had been talking and visiting each other for a little over six months when we made our move. We only had each other when we started, and we became even better friends than we had before--best friends, and perfect lovers. But it didn't last long.<P>Her job was the catalyst that started a chain of events ultimately resulting in the destruction of our relationship. The stupid thing is, she warned me it would happen! This job has actually wrecked two other relationships for her previously. I felt we were immune for some reason, partially because I never really understood just <B>how</B> it was going to effect things. She was never really clear on communicating that to me. What was her job? Maybe you guessed it: she was an exotic dancer.<P>Believe it or not, I had no real issues with what she was doing. That was just as it had been in her other two relationships. You would think that there might be a lot of jealousy and resent at the mere fact of my girlfriend being off, getting drunk and parading around nude for a bunch of horny men, but there wasn't. No, seriously, there wasn't! This was her job, and we were in love. There really weren't any trust issues, in fact, the core of our relationship remained solid gold for a very long time in this state. Trust and devotion were there in a big way and I honestly didn't have a problem with what she was doing at all. But something else began to happen. <BR> <BR>As I said, I really didn't have any issues with what she was doing, but...<B>she</B> did. She had tried to warn me about the effect it would have on her, but not adequately so. If I had been in a more financially secure position at the time, this wouldn't have been an issue, but we had to make a living and she felt that this job was the only way she could make a decent amount of money--even as she described it as "hell". <P>Due to her work, she had to shut down certain parts of her emotional makeup. She didn't stop loving me, but her ability to express that love was significantly impaired. Our sex life slowly withered away, and as this was a major EN for me, it triggered a long cycle of retaliation and reconciliation on my part that put a lot of wear on the relationship. In retaliation mode, it was just a lot of LBing on my part, mostly making selfish demands, pushing her away, being cranky toward her in general, refusing to provide as much emotional and domestic support as she wanted (mostly related to the care of her two dogs in the domestic area, which she genuinely regards as her children). In reconciliation mode, I was very devoted and kind and sweet with her, mostly in an attempt to get through the emotional wall that I feel had formed between us. She assured me that she still loved me and that as soon as she quit dancing, everything would be fine. It took nearly a year of living this way for the situation to erode enough for me to fall into an affair.<P>I found an affiar, she found out, and naturally, there was a great falling out between us. In the case of this affair though, I had actually been warning her about my feelings and intentions to be with someone else, and at one point, she had actually encouraged me to have a sexual fling with someone to satiate my sexual needs. She was clear that it couldn't be an affair, but said that she would allow me to have a few sexual encounters. We had been arguing back and forth about this and eventually I told her that I was not going to see anyone, mostly because I didn't want to hurt her.<P>When she found out about my affair, after her initial anger, she suprised me by suddenly responding very strongly to me emotionally and sexually, trying to give me everything I had been missing. Essentially, she was using Plan A! I had a lot of anger and resent, though, and I continued to see this person for about a month before I finally broke it off. We really didn't have enough communication on this, and I should have explained my motivations better to my girlfriend. At the time, though, I really didn't know what my motivations were. I partially quit my P+EA because of my girlfriend's superior ability to fulfill my sexual and emotional needs, but also because of some manipulation on her part. She has a way of just baring down on you and getting you to do what she wants. She is very, very persistant and persausive and admits to being a "spoiled brat". <P>This was the major turning point, I believe. I still loved her, but I was being selfish. I felt anger from being unfulfilled for so long...I also felt hurt, neglected and taken advantage of by her. I felt like a doormat because she had been demanding emotional fulfillment from me without offering any in return, and furthermore had refused to even acknowledge that as being the situation. She also had refused to acknowledge sex as a valid EN and more or less wrote my objections off as my being undevoted to the relationship. <P>And so now I was really just retaliating for the way she had treated me before. Even though I ended my affiar and was now begining to see from her what I wanted, I continued to deploy LBs against her.<P>The biggest LB, and really the death nail was my total verbal revocation of my love for her. Had I known the real damage I was doing, those completely stupid and abusive words would have never escaped my lips. I still had her, but instead of pushing through those difficult times with her by my side, I simply punished her for the way I had felt. I was idiotic, childish and vengeful.<BR> <BR>Our financial situation eventually improved and she quit working all together for some months. Things began to quiet down and relax. I took care of her and wanted to give her (and our relationship) a chance to rest and recover. Things had been turbulent. I was idiotic to think that everything that had happened wouldn't have an impact on our future. I now expected to get her back and continue our relationship the way it had been long ago. During this period of time, though, we really were just living as friends, and I was under the delusion that we were somehow still great lovers despite all of the damage that had taken place. I failed to open communication on the emotional abuse that I had put her through in recent months, and more or less just pretended that everything was going to be okay. I was a damn fool and essentially, she played along with me simply because she didn't want to hurt me--and the tables turned a complete 180 degrees. <BR> <BR>Now it was I who was having my ENs fulfilled and it was her who was going unsatisfied. She finally found a new job, a real job, and she got great satisfaction from it. Her spirits perked up, and I was sure things were taking a turn for the better. Our sex life really hadn't fully recovered, and that had been a source of frustration for me, though I really tried not to make a big issue out of it. If I had known better, I would have recognized it as a sign that something was still very wrong.<P>In her new job she was helping to open a new store (a franchise). Her boss liked her a lot and was giving her a lot of responsibility. She liked her work a great deal and was very happy there. In fact, she began to spend quite a lot of time away from home, sometimes working 50 or more hours a week. A man who was visiting the store from the corporate offices had caught her eye, and she had caught his. He visited for one week and then eventually made a return trip during which their affair began. At this point, I'll note that this OM has his own wife of many years and two kids, one 9 years old and the other 14 years old. <P>And so it was: just as I had done to her, she did to me. I found out about her cheating on me the day after it happened and broke up with her. There was an angry outburst and I tried to kick her out of the apartment. At the last moment, though, we began to talk, and as I began to calm down and take a closer look at the situation, I realized that I really had my self to blame, and that furthermore, I was being very selfish and hypocritical by trying to kick her out. It was just a pain reaction and it passed. We talked things over that night, and I was devistated to learn that she was no longer "in love" with me. Regardless, I asked her to stay with me, and she has.<P>I was just very hurt because I had assumed that things were getting better over that five or six months that she had quit her old job, so the whole thing caught me blind sided. That was a big difference between the nature of our affairs. I had warned her, tried to come to some resolution with her, but it wasn't happening, so I didn't really feel I was doing anything to her she didn't deserve and already have every reason to expect. For me, though, there were no direct warnings, and instead she was intentionally working to keep me blind to her feelings. She was doing this to protect me, I know.<P>And that is where we stand now. It's been about 3 weeks since her affair started.<P>Another big difference with her affair is that I feel she's far more attracted and intense about this OM than I was about my OW. She appears to be truly enamoured with this person, having a full blown P+EA with him. She admits to becoming extremely nervous, short of breath and excited (emotionally and sexually) at the mere sound of his voice. She sometimes says that she feels in love with him and other times (usually when they haven't talked for a while) that she is simply in lust with him and nothing more. She describes the attraction as being a very strong chemical reaction between them. He lives far away, but he does lots of traveling and is able to arrange meetings with her. At this point, it looks like they are going to be able to have meetings once every two months for perhaps a week at a time. They also communicate regularly on the phone and in email. <P>So this is the battlefield as I see it:<P>My advantages: <P>1) Our friendship has endured all of this. In fact, it has only strengthened through the adversity (as friendships often do). She still describes me as being her best friend, and I would say the same of her. <P>2) She is completely open to many components of Plan A. She openly invites communication, affection, recreational time, family commitment, financial support and domestic support from me. These are major ENs that I can focus on fulfilling for her. A note about family commitment: remember that she honestly views her two dogs as her "babies". <P>3) The OM is married with a family and lives far away.<P>4) The lines of communication are wide open. Because she views me as her best friend, she tells me everything, including many intricate details of her relationship with the OM, her feelings about me, etc. In fact, she tells me things that she will tell no one else, and it's giving me a great deal of "tactical" information to work with.<P>5) I know where the LBs are, and have completely stopped them.<P>6) While she is adamant about living together as friends only, she sees us and her dogs as a family unit that she treasures. She greatly wants to stay together like a "family", at least for now. Realistically, she may be using me as a means to an end in this regard. That is one of my fears, though I am working hard to trust her.<P>At this point, you may be wondering why I'm even posting. You might think that the odds are overwhelmingly in my favor and that I just need to Plan A for a while. Let me move on to the major obstacles I face. Then you will perhaps see why I completely lost hope at one point and am still faced with a great challenge.<P>Obstacles:<P>1) She is infatuated with the OM. Again, it is a strong, burning chemical like attraction, and possibly the beginning of love on her part. She admits to thinking of him all the time, intensely craving his company, and missing him greatly. If the OM were not married and far away, I feel that she would have already left me for him.<P>2) She admits that one of her desires is to tear the OM away from his wife and family, though she admits that this may be impossible.<P>3) She has absolutely no intention of ending the affair. We have discussed why this situation is potentially very harmful for her and others, and she acknowledges this fact, but absolutely will not back down. In fact, she is unconditionally compelled to see this person and has no ability to end this outrageous addiction. <P>3a) A note: Her feelings for him wane when she hasn't actually heard his voice or seen him in person for a week or more, but this is rare, and upon even talking to him on the phone, it's like she's instantly super charged for him again. Strangely, email from him has no such effect.<P>4) The first "advantage" I listed is actually a double edged sword. I fear that her feelings of friendship for me are so strongly cemented, she may have no ability to view me romantically anymore. There is absolutely no sign of romantic interest in me what-so-ever. She describes me as being like her <B>brother</B> now. This is reinforced by the fact that she completely discloses the details of her affair to me without any hesitation.<P>5) She is actively encouraging me to see other people and to move on with my life. She provides both support and pressure in this regard. She is <B>insistant</B> that I not try to be anything more to her than a friend, and if she even gets a hint that I am trying for more than that, she withdraws somewhat. <P>5a) A note: I believe she is doing this for my protection. She has told me that while it may be vaguely, remotely possible that one day something could happen between us, it's so unlikely that it's not worth trying for and she will not tolerate me hurting myself any further over her. Period.<P>6) Even casual sex is completely out of the question. She has no problems with casual nudity around me and invites lots of super affectionate touching, but <B>completely</B> locks up upon any attempt at sex on my part. She also displays no physical attraction to me. By her own admissions, I know that she thinks of me as a physically attractive person, but she never lets her eyes wander over my body the way she used to. She's not allowing her self to think like that at all, and may not be able to. IE, I am her good looking "brother". <P>7) Before her affair, she spent a long time pretending to be in love with me and staying with me even though she did not want to. This has left a very bad taste in her mouth.<P>---<P>I want to make some additional notes about our living situation and how we are relating now. <P>We still share the same bedroom, and she seems to be quite happy with that fact. She likes me to lay with her and hold her and be affectionate towards her. Last night, she even allowed me to give her a full body massage at my suggestion (in the nude, no less) and seemed to enjoy it a great deal. I am going to get a little graphic at this point, and I don't want to offend anyone, but this situation is sort of confusing and I would like some feedback. Last night, when I was massaging her, she allowed me to touch some of her eroginous zones: her gorgeous butt and her inner thighs, namely. She didn't seem to mind this one bit, but she is always very adminant about my not touching her genitals (breast or vaginal area). Perhaps we just have a different ideas about what sexual touching is, but I almost feel as if some sexual touching is okay, but other more intense sexual touching is not. Certainly, if I were her biological brother, she would not want my hands on her butt or her inner thighs, right? (I have never had a sister, and she has never had a brother.) For the sake of argument, I'm going to call the kind of semi-sexual touching she allows as "super affectionate" and anything more than that "sexual".<P>Okay, so things like this are very encouraging in some regards, but she is gaurding her "sexual" borders with <B>great</B> vigor. If I even slightly cross the thin line between super affection and sexual contact, her reaction is swift and firm: NO WAY! This is sort of confusing for me. <P>My theory here is that this is really for my protection. She may be open to me sexually, deep down, but she fears that if we actually have sex, we will get back together and will be doomed to repeat past mistakes, subjecting us both to another long, painful ordeal. I could be wrong, though. <P>So it seems that a lot of Plan Aing is needed to turn things around. Here are some questions I have:<P>I want to be totally honest with her about my intentions at this point, but I cannot. If she knew I had any sort of agenda in place to get her back, I feel she would want to separate. Again, I feel this is just her being protective over me. But how do I approach her on it? I will pretty much have to lie and tell her that I have no intention of getting her back. I don't want to have to do that.<P>What do I do when she becomes suspicious that I am providing for her ENs so well now? She'll know something is up! I was never this great to her before, and she appears to be drinking it up. In fact, I am rather enjoying being her "doormat". I feel like previous circumstances (lack of communication, her job, etc.) prevented me from being able to relate to her and provide for her in this way, and I am really <B>enjoying</B> spoiling her! I just fear she'll get hip to the trip and tell me to stop doing it in fear that I'm going to hurt myself.<P>I am actively working on not being needy and insecure around her. This was a problem at first. While I am working intensely to deposit huge quantities of love points by catering to her as much as possible, I am attempting to project a happy, relaxed content image of myself. My only fear is that she may eventually assume my happiness and confidence is coming only from my relationship with her and that really, she has me in a very vulnerable position. Ideas here? <P>As a further note on this point, she wants me to date others, and I have been putting up a reasonable facade of doing so. Should I continue? How far should I let myself go with other people?<P>I need help on overcoming the OM. She burns for him deeply, and this hurts everyone involved. The only thing I can do is remain calm, avoid making demands, being judgemental, etc. I'm doing this well so far and she comfortably confides in me for advice about him, but of course, can never take my advice. She now tells me of her specific plans to see him. Dates, times, everything. It's really painful. <P>---<P>Whew! That was quite a post. Thanks again to anyone who has followed me and I would greatly appreciate feedback, ideas and advice. <P>Thank You...<P>eon<p>[This message has been edited by eon (edited May 16, 2001).]

Wow...<BR>...yes that was quite some post!<P>I am personally very much against living arrangements like these... before marriage...<BR>There are proven statistics that these relationships (if marriage results)... divorce rates are astronomical!<P>Her affair right now is <B>deep</B> in the fog...<BR>...and while there is a chance for recovery...<P>...since you're not married now...<P>...it may be the best time for your to completely breakoff the relationship.<P>A "full" marital relationship...<BR>...is far superior to lust based friendship.<P>I know I'm on the "ultra"-conservative side of the "marriage" <I>convenant</I>...<P>...but at your place in life... now... and in the near future...<BR>...you may think it is time for a true... life-time... covenant.<P>You will be in my thoughts... and prayers... <P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>Jim</A> / <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037.html" TARGET=_blank>NSR</A>

Thank you for your reply. That's something I'm still a little vague on. Where can I read about the "fog"?<P>Thanks!

Eon, <P>I have to say it sounds like you think that you can maniulate this woman somehow "trick" her. Not a good idea. Read the policy of radical honesty <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_honesty.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_honesty.html</A> .<P>You guys have quite a history, and she is obviously infatuated with this OM, and you do not have the commitment of marriage behind you here. To fill her emotional needs for her at this point without being upfront about your intentions I don't see this as being real constructive, maybe just my opinion. The chances of this working out with her OM are astronomically low because he is married, the statistics are that he will not leave his wife, and even if he did it wouldn't work out. <P>You would be much better off following the radical honesty rule and Plan B, and moving out if necessary until she is ready, if she ever is to restart a relationship with you and break off seeing this guy. <P>Odds are this may not work out, to be honest with so much dishonesty and verbal abuse and emotional rollercoasting going on, if it did work out unless you guys go through some good counseling I see a very stormy relationship ahead, she probably does too. Showing her real change, honest feelings, trustworthiness, giving her a chance to miss you, these things might help, even if you do it from afar. <P>I think being very honest about your feelings and changed out look and hope, demanding better treatment and that she break off the affair before you move back in and going to a good counselor if it works are definitely in order here, but that's my opinion, you might want to go to some individual therapy for now too and get some professional advice.<P>

About the "fog"...<P>check out <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/006902.html" TARGET=_blank>What is "The Fog" everyone talks about?</A>.<P> <P>Jim