After about 11 months of Plan A, I expect to go to Plan B after Memorial day. In preparation, I have been trying to anticipate my wife's reaction. Maybe this is needless thought, because whatever her reaction, mine will be the same: I cannot communicate with her about it until she is willing to work on our marriage and end all contact.<P>Nonetheless, I expect her to ridicule me as childish and manipulative and doing harm to our son instead of accepting the inevitable and working together in co-parenting. She will go ballistic because I intend to send copies of the plan B letter to her sisters and parents, whom I am very close to, with a cover letter to explain why I am separating from her in this way. Additionally, I will send a copy to OM who I used to know very well (her former best friend's husband who is already well into divorce proceedings).<P>For information, she has never admitted the affair (just friends) and seems to hide behind our legal separation as justification for her new life. She moved out last August and refuses counseling of any sort. She says she intends to file as soon as our required year of separation is complete (although she could file sooner as OM did).<P>I'm interested in the range of responses other's have received and any recommendations.<P>WAT

Morning WAT,<BR>I dont have a lot of personal experience with this one...I did not go into plan b. <BR>But I am not sure I understand the point of giving the plan b letter to anyone other than your spouse. My first thought is this is not a good idea, so maybe you can explain this?<BR>cl

Hi Dave... <P>Ok... you know how wordy I can be sometimes...<P>I wrote a fairly long Plan B letter... and when people on the forum reviewed it... they said... it was way to long.<P>So... I wrote a much abbreviated one... put it up as a web page with a link to the the longer one (also on a web page).<P>When I e-mailed her a message to look at the short one...<BR>...within 2 minutes she clicked on the long one...<BR>...so I think there could have been interest...<P><B>BUT</B>...<BR>...not a word from her to me about it!<BR>(her interest may have been a sign of relief)<P>Of course my situation was a bit different...<BR>My xW was already living with OM 18 months<BR>She filed for divorce<BR>Admitted the affair... and said how she <B>needed</B> it to be happy... (belch)<BR>And was now relieved that I wouldn't <B>bother</B> her anymore with Plan A "junk"...<P>You results may vary...<P>But in any case...<BR>...you need to be very strong in Plan B...<BR>...and be as firm as possible wrt the "no contact"...<BR>.....except in "information" dealing with your son!!!<P>Praying for you...<BR>...you are a good father!<P>Oh yes...<BR>...do give a copy of the letter to the OM... (closure you know)<BR>...but don't give it to <B>anyone</B> else!<BR>It is none of their business!<BR>The Plan B letter is a 'love letter'...<BR>...and the intimacy of it should be shared with your spouse!<BR>(for the OM... only so your views are opened to your W's... soulmate... (belch)... for the LAST time)<P> <P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited May 19, 2001).]

Thanks Jim and cl - my rationale of informing her family members is that they are already aware (sisters especially) of what's going on but were initially lied to by my wife as to the reason for HER separation. My shrink advises me that when she crashes, she could sink very deeply due to our circumstances (loss of child, betrayal of best friend and her kids), so I feel somewhat obligated to tell them what my actions are based on so they'll know I'm doing it out of compassion - just in case this wakes her up. The main reason I stayed in Plan A so long was that I realize she's sick and will need a lot of caring when reality hits - so my patience was strong and my love bank remained in the black. It is hard for me to describe my relationship with her family. It will feel like I'm hiding something from them if they don't know what's going on. Perhaps I could accomplish the same thing with just a separate letter?<P>WAT

WAT,<P>I haven't been posting much but your post jumped out at me.<P>This is just MHO but I do <B>NOT</B> think you should send it to her family. I think you should tell them the situation so they can be prepared to be there for her more now than ever before. The reason is because you are going to Plan B. Which means protecting the needs of yourself and son. Plan B is a love letter that is between you and her. As I understand it, this letter is to protect the love that you have for your wife. The letter should say something like I love you but I'm hurting and I need to take care of myself. I am not an expert on Plan B, but this is just my opinion. I tend to agree with Jim about sending it to OM, it's closure. <P>One last thing, talk to Steve!!!!<P>You will be in my thoughts and payers. Please keep us updated.<P>K

I like your idea of a separate letter to family and friends. It would help having to do a lot of explaining to people on the phone or in person, over, and over, and over, etc... grin.<P>Should I have to move on to plan B, I think I'll do the same.<P>Karen<BR>

<B>Talk</B> to her (and your) family about it...<BR>...it will build for the fortitude to hold on to a stronger "no contact" Plan B.<P> <P>Jim

WAT,<P>I just had another thought. When you tell the family you should tell them be there for her, listen to her, support her, watch over her because you can not help her. Your wife will not let you be there for her, be her primary supporter so you need to ask the family to do what you normally would do for her.<P>I told my FIL the same thing.<P>I hope this helps.<P>K

Dave,<P>Bet you alll ready know what I am going to say.<P><BR>TALK TO STEVE!<P>

Hi Dave,<BR>I could get you a heck of a deal on a full page ad in the Washington Post....I know some folks over there......but why? Humiliation seems to me to be a CLass A lovebuster...<P>I hate to say it.....but I think it's over for you guys....I'd concentrate on not further alienating your son......<P>Best Wishes<BR>Xman

Hello Wat,<BR>As i said before, I am not a plan b veteran. <BR>But I have been around here long enough to get the idea! <BR>Plan b letter is in essence a love letter, as nsr mentioned. It is to your wife. Not to the om, not to her family, etc. It is something for her and for you. ONLY.<BR>There are a lot of issues that will come up later with family, and i have way toooooo much experience with that! Be very careful what you tell them and how you tell them. My advice is to keep anything you tell them very brief. If they do not know abt the affair, then do not tell them you feel she is having one. <BR>Does not matter how close you are to her family, it will bite you in the butt later. I would recommend saying something along the lines of "we are separating for a while to see how she feels abt the marriage" or 'we are separating for awhile so she can find herself'. One of those very vague catchall statements that mean nothing. Let them draw their own conclusions. <BR>While having the family support is initially great, it has been very hard during the later recovery phase for both h and i. A couple mos ago I apologized to h because he was sideswiped by one of my relatives. 2 yrs post cheating and one of my relatives scolded him....and quite thoroughly! This is only the latest of family issues that have come up. <BR>You can always post the letter here for critique and advice! aloha, cl<P><BR>

Hi Wat,<P>I am glad you are working on your letter. I just stopped by to say that I disagree with Xman. There are a lot of issues you mentioned before that you and your W are dealing with. <P>You are a logical and reasonable person who has shown strength to endure much. For you and your situation, there is still hope. Please don't give up. There are options and help available for your W. While you may or may not be her only source of support, she is going to see the need to have it hopefully in the near future she will accept the help and be able to reconcile with her family. <P>Plan B helps put distance to allow for healing. Time is the hard piece of that plan to follow. We often want the healing to happen quickly. Life does not always give us that option. Be patient as you have been and find your support here. In time, she will come around to find her family again. Have faith. <P>Wishing the best to your plan B and your family,<P>L.<P><BR>

Dave,<P>Best of luck. You certainly should be prepared after eleven months.<P>As you probably know, my first attempt at Plan B lasted all of about eight hours. I just wasn't ready for it. Although Steve felt I was taking an emotional beating from my wife and that I seemed to be losing it, I think that we are the ones who must judge in the end when we are ready. Like I said, I am not. I feel that there still is more to accomplish in Plan A.<P>You have obviously reached the point where you think you are ready. Good for you. Go for it!

WAT-you are still way too funny (your "word scramble" in GQ II about WS & alien abduction).<P>You seem to be comfortable with your Plan B decison. And I really like how you're going to inform her family (I agree w/a separate letter) so they will know the situation & be there for her when she needs them. Oh, if this woman could only see who she has & how much he cares (and how fun he is! She should know how many people at MB smile b/c of you!). I truely hope for both you & her & your son that she does before you are ready to move on.<P>Good luck, we're all pulling for you. I really just have to say what a great Dad & husband I think you are. Also I read your other post about your conversation w/your W & how it helps you to control yourself from LB'ing w/her b/c you know you are going to post it here. Excellent frame of mind. . whatever gets you thru the day, right??!!

Dave,<P>You know I've been one of the "pushers" to get you into Plan B, and I still maintain that you'll be better off there.<P>I agree with those who say to mail the Plan B letter only to your W. It is a love letter, you are supposed to spill your guts in it (including admitting your contributions to the crappy state of your marriage) and I don't see why her family or OM need to see that stuff. I told my parents just a bit about Plan B (without discussing the affair elements), so they'd know what was basically going on, but I didn't get into any details.<P>Regarding Xman's statement that "it's over", that is not the point. Plan B does as much to help you transition into the divorced life as it is to save your marriage. Your Plan A has not succeeded in getting your W back, and as Harley says, Plan B then becomes the second part of the one-two punch. It may not get your W back either, but it will make you feel like a whole new person (I'll address my experience with this on the GQ board). So whether it gets your W back or not, Plan B will still work in accomplishing its objectives, IMO.<P>One other thing I want to mention. You ask how your W will react; the whole beauty of Plan B is that you will no longer need to give a rat's a$$ about her reactions, antics, etc. That is the biggest difference between Plan A (where the determined WS's like my W and yours keep coming up with ever crazier antics, leaving you to scratch your head), and Plan B, where you basically tell her to keep her antics to herself. What a relief!!<P>Anyway, draft up a loving letter for your W, and make sure you focus on the pain that her affair is causing you, which is why you're going into Plan B (no disrespectful judgements; focus on how it makes YOU feel), and post it here for us to review.<P>Good luck,<P>Your Plan B pal,<P>AGG<BR><p>[This message has been edited by AGoodGuy (edited May 20, 2001).]

Thanks all for the thoughtful advice. I'll be talking to Steve to get his input.<P>A few thoughts about whether or not to send the Plan B letter to OM/family. Of course, I want to do what is most effective. One thing that I think is a major consideration is the concept that affairs usually need the light of day to get derailed. Despite the fact that I caught them together, and the fact that she told me she was in love with him, my wife and OM still adamantly deny that there is an affair. I believe that they have fooled themselves into believeing that they're being successful with their denials, although nobody close believes them. So, my thoughts on sending the Plan B letter or some other explanatory letter to her family was mostly to turn up the lights for her to see.<P>Regarding sending it to OM, I don't fully understand the "closure" thing. I was just following the advice in SAA. Actually, I have suspicions of how my wife may have described my reactions to OM, so I view this as an opportunity to reveal some pillow talk lies - not specifics, just the broad concept that I'm trying to save our marriage and family which she may have portrayed differently. Also, if it's supposeed to be so personal, why does SAA say to send it to OM?<P>WAT

WAt, you have been getting a lot of advice, and I'm sure S. Harley will give you the best he's got.<P>I was reading Terri's reply on GQ11.... and her last statement... "they have been assimilated... resistance is futile"... stuck with me, and pretty much describes my attempts at Plan B.<P>I know I've described how similar your wife's actions and my H's have been... All I can say, is that in my H's case, the walls of rationalization are very high. I am powerless against it.. <P>Plan B...was a BIG LB on my part. I've discussed that issue with Steve on a couple of occasions. I think if I had done it early in this mess...it would have had more effect. But my H has maintained his connection with our kids...though empathy and emotion are not really a part of it... and he views any attempts on my part to set boundaries... either a consistent parenting plan for the kids, or any attempts for me to get a life... as "not in the kids best interests".<P>He has the same selective reasoning as your wife.<P>I am actually in awe of it at this point. Along with the fact that many in his family accept it. It's kind of the bully approach.<P>Of course, because of OW"s pregancy..and my H "whining" to me,that his life was complicated, he was unhappy, he didn't want the kids to know, and that all he wanted to do was see the kids ..... I fell for it...and there pretty much went plan B. He did well in the beginning...and was remembering a lot more... (coming out of the tunnel or fog)...but he hit a comfort zone and we were right back where we started.<P>S. Harley told me that reality would hit when the baby was born...but it hasnt' yet. In fact, H and OW still work together and they are still "seen" together, but he still denies it... go figure that one out. He wants to tell the kids about the baby now..in case they want to see him, but says that there won't be much contact... so what does that mean?? I don't even ask anymore. Let him deal with that one. Heck, my kids are too young to really understand SEX!! <P>So, I'm just cautioning you regarding trying to get "affair to light of day"...when the walls of rationalization are very high. <P>Steve suggested to me since plan B...limiting my contact with H was viewed as SUCH a LB...by H, his family and anyone else he has painted me as the "controller"... that I juct remain civil and try to distance myself emotionally from him as much as possible.<P>Not easy. It's like putting a plexiglass shield between you and your spouse.... to try to deflect anything that they say. I just am trying to stick with the facts..the truth...and leave any feeling out because he just doesn't get it.<P>I think I would suggest you really get Steve's input regarding sending the letter to her family or OM. Again, It would most likely be a huge LB...because it is reality based...and she cannot be right now.<P>I caution you, because it seems to me (though again I can't even pretend to know at this point) that when there is that wall of rationalization and defense....they just don't feel safe with us. Sounds bizaar...and it probably is...but it is to avoid pain. <P>It seems to me, that when we try to bring any truth, reality, (disipline???) we are inflicting pain that they can't deal with yet.<P>I know I will be interested in what S. Harley has to say to you. And good luck... You are at least thinking about it alot...which is better than reacting...which is pretty much what I (used) to do.

This is my first post on this board. I have been reading about the topic started by worthatry and just wanted to share that I have just entered the plan B mode after about 11 months of Plan A. <BR>Basically, my H kept relapsing into his affair, and the emotional rollercoaster was unbearable for me. I had to shut down communication with him in self defense because the interaction was just making the hurt and feelings of betrayal more intense.<BR>We are on the third divorce complaint after he manipulated me to drop the other 2. I say manipulated becasue I later found out that he really had not terminated the affair, well knowing that that was a requirement. He did not participate enthusiastically in counseling, and lied during sessions to appease me. However, I always found out the truth, and he chastised me for finding out and snooping, rather than regretting his continued dishonesty. <BR>I have accelerated the divorce, and have raised the issue of restricting his visitations becasue the person that he is involved is of poor moral character and lifestyle which would be detrimental to our 13 year old son. My H is in denial that he is involved with the wrong type: a 21 year-old go-go dancer (stripper), mother of 2 infants, addict, and still involved with the 23 year old addict/convict father of her children who is threatening my H's life. My H is now very vengeful toward me for finally closing the door on his behavior. He now says that his affair is over (to protect visitation) and is attempting to discredit my parenting abilities because I raged at him frequently either at frequent triggers or new betrayals. I do not have reason to rage or be upset as long as I do not have to have contact with my H, which I am doing. <BR>I am working at geting my independent life in order and keeping myself as healthy as ossible, emotionally as well as physically. I've built up a network of friends who understand what I'm going through and have been in counseling since this started a year ago. All of these things have given me more confidence to face the future divorced, if that is where this plan B is heading. <BR>I have alwasy said that I would love to have my old married life back with the man I trusted for 17 years. However, that man doesn't exist anymore, and he is so changed that I do not even know how to relate to him anymore. This affair has totally destroyed the goodness that my H once had, and it is difficult to understand how this could have happened so suddenly. Whereas I once felt that I could help my husband by being there for him while he "found" himself again, I no longer have the energy to keep trying. It's time he put his own effort into it, or continue to sink deeper until he finally realizes it himself. When that time comes, hopefully I will be a stronger person and not hurting as much as I am now. I hope to be involved in new activities and hopefully, a constructive new loving relationship so that I do not have to be involved in getting him out of his mess. Hopefully his family and friends will be there when he needs them.<BR>This is my up to date story. It changes daily, but I think I'm on the right track.<BR>

Hello WAT,<BR>please let us know what steve says abt the letters. <BR>TT, i am sorry to hear your h is still so lost. How old are your kids? I cannot understand how he can be a Dad and limit contact with the child?<BR>MC, yours is really lost! Gads, that OW should have a nickname....one we can't forget easily. I applaud you for making him carry his own burdens for awhile.

<B>Dave</B>,<P>Glad you are going to call Steve. I have a question, & I am sure that Steve will tell you what to do but what do you tell your son about Plan B. From what you have written he will hear no critism about his mom, thinks you should move on with our life (brainwashing from your W), just wondering about your plan to inform him. Is you son still seeing a counselor?<P>YOu will do the right thing. I have faith in you.