The marriage between us has been admittedly strained since D-Day Oct. 22, 2000, despite my attempts. We had a great week a week or so ago and I LB'd after questioning the "no contact". She fervently had denied any contact within the past several weeks. <P>Yesterday, I happened to see OM driving in the direction of my W's work place (at her quitting time) so I followed him. I was fully expecting them to leave together, but he left alone. I watched him drive away and I returned to work (from my break). W calls me at work, minutes later, and said "someone" thought they saw me waiting by her car and she wondered what was up. I did my best to postpone a response until I got home. She said she was gonna walk (very unusual) to the store. I couldn't work so I left and went home. Our son drove up and parked in front of the house. I wait. She arrived an hour later, in his car, gets out a block from home - seeing our truck out front. I confront her.<P>We decide wait until today to talk. If we can't get this out in the open, I'm afraid it's gonna be Plan B (I have this feeling that Plan B will not work in our case). She insists she hasn't done anything wrong and can see no real harm in remaining friends with this jerk. I know all about his plans to "take her away and make her happy" (mostly sexual references) and she has admitted feelings for him too at times.<P>I just needed to vent. I'll be interested to hear what she wants to do. We need CLOSURE!<p>[This message has been edited by Ifeelstupid (edited May 25, 2001).]

I don't know your story, but she must miss something she had with the OM... (friendship or whatever).. maybe they just wanted to see how each other was doing.. or maybe she's still not happy. I don't know how your marriage is now, but if you're not totally into each other and making it work, the wayward thoughts will probably occur. Don't make too big a deal out of it.. yet... ask her why (don't blow up).. see what her response is. Let her know that you cannot deal with her seeing the OM.. (please tryyyy to be calm and cool).. and if she cannot agree, you may need to separate.

<B>IFS</B>,<P>Ouch! I feel for you.<P>If I recall correctly, you've been pretty much trying to Plan A since shortly after D-Day. Do you think the contact between them has been continuous, or just on occasion? If frequent, the contact could explain a lot of the difficulty you've had. Of course any contact is a setback.<P>As you probably know, Plan B serves several purposes. It prepares you for divorce if the worst happens , it preserves some love for your spouse, and it lets them see what life would be like without you. No more getting some ENs met by you and some by the OP. I don't know if you should go to Plan B yet (maybe a call to the MB phone counseling would be good at this point), but she really needs to be accountable to you for her whereabouts for you to continue in Plan A.<P>Let us know how the talk with her goes.<P>Steve

Thanks...Talked to W at lunch (a little). She says she wants to stay married. We ran out of time to discuss the OM. May be just as well. This is going to take some thought on both our parts. From her outward appearance towards me the past week or two, combined with probably a half-dozen suspicious gifts (jewelry, Walkman, cassette tapes, plant) really point back to continuous contact. I don't want to be right about this, but this stuff is hard to ignore. She claims they are from co-workers, sisters, etc. She hardly ever received gifts, except from me <P>My plan for this weekend is that we sit down and calmly talk about this situation. I almost think she wanted to get caught. Anyway, it is the perfect time to attempt, one last time, to resolve the "no contact" issue. I will give her the space and opportunity to make her decision. If she can not do that, I'll will be faced with Plan B. I know her well and I just don't think it will work. It becomes my fault. More soul searching needed and prayer.<P>I know she loves me, and I love her as much as ever, In spite of what has happened. I remarked about how OM thinks he loves her, but he doesn't "really" know her...I do...and STILL love her. <P>IFS/Mark

IFS:<BR>Please listen to Leighann, and stay calm & cool. <BR>This is the best way to get through to her. Muster all the self-control you have. Think about the love you have for her when you are doing this, even though the fact you have your suspicions about the gifts ( and you''re probably right, but it doesn't matter).<P>The OM is probably competing for her right now, since he senses you still have influence over her, and is getting desperate, and more earnest in his attempts. Stay confident and unrattled, and you'll have the advantage over him. And if you keep the "talks" brief and positive & happy, you can't lose!<P>Go get 'em, tiger!<P>muzohead<p>[This message has been edited by muzohead (edited May 26, 2001).]

Thanks for your continued support. W is working this morning so I had a little time. Basically, we have agreed to sit down and talk about our situation. I'm suggesting one hour, uninterrupted. I have been going over my notes one last time. This is an all-out Plan A effort here. <P>We have struggled with our finances for several years. I don't meet one of her most important EN's - financial support. She works too much to try and make up for that: 2 part-time cleaning jobs and bartending in addition to her full time job. Here's the thing - I went over our budget and I came up with roughly $100 short per month. That includes her cleaning and one night of bartending per week. I don't like her working there at all, but I can live with one night if she must Sunday night). She worked 3 nights this week, last night (Friday), tonight (Sat), tomorrow night, 4 nights next week, next weekend...1 weekend off thru July! It's her Dad's bar but this seems like an escape.<P>She has not given me much time for us to talk. Anytime! This has been so hard. I know she's really at work and does work hard. No doubt about that (TYPE A personality). Yes, I suspect OM goes there, at least sometimes. She doesn't want me there - makes her too nervous (ok). Our debt continues to grow so we need a plan for that. I'm willing to work part time too.<P>After the events from the other day, it just seems like the perfect time to go over our future. I am going thru SAA and making notes to discuss and formally agree on No Contact. My mistake has been to just let it slide and see how she does. She insists they're "good friends" but we ALL know better than that. I am gonna keep cool at all costs, not LB and give her the most loving talk I can. I just think that if she is unwilling to accept no contact we're at the beginning of the end. Plan B time. I doubt that's gonna work in our case - maybe I waited too long? She is willing to work some toward the marriage but not really whole-heartedly. Evidently, she still loves me, doesn't really want a divorce, doesn't want either of us to leave, BUT doesn't want to end the A (EA and likely PA at least somewhat). I don't think she sees that I am prepared to live without her if it comes to that - as much as I DON'T want that. It's the last thing I want! Praying for strength, focus and peace. Sorry this got long.<P>IFS/Mark

Well I'm back. She pretty much avoided me today so that she wouldn't have to listen to "the Talk" I suppose. She went back in to work for tonight. She was in a good mood at least. I confiscated the extra cell. phone in her purse before she left, in case the denials become too great. OM gave it to her "when she feels like talking". Supposedly had given it back to him a week or two ago! What's wrong with this picture? <P>I've been pretty calm today but really would have liked for us to have discussed our problems. I am a patient man. Still re-reading SAA (studying - if you will) and I left it out for her to see today. "Where did you get THAT?!" <BR>The title says it all doesn't it. There is so much she could learn too...especially when it comes to opposite-sex attraction and friendship. She has been known to flirt and is one of those people who's enthusiasm and perkyness naturally attracts. I think she got over her head this time, but enjoys it.<P>Here's hoping for a good tomorrow. I rented "The Story of Us" tonight - I hear it's good.<P>I see I made Member-status...it would be great to get a breakthrough about now <P>IFS/Mark <P>[This message has been edited by Ifeelstupid (edited May 26, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Ifeelstupid (edited May 26, 2001).]

<<We have struggled with our finances for several years. I don't meet one of her most important EN's - financial support. She works too much to try and make up for that: 2 part-time cleaning jobs and bartending in addition to her full time job. Here's the thing - I went over our budget and I came up with roughly $100 short per month. That includes her cleaning and one night of bartending per week. I don't like her working there at all, but I can live with one night if she must Sunday night). She worked 3 nights this week, last night (Friday), tonight (Sat), tomorrow night, 4 nights next week, next weekend...1 weekend off thru July! It's her Dad's bar but this seems like an escape.>><P>OMG......If I were in her shoes, I'd be too damn tired to find the energy to have an affair. This little lady has a REAL work load. I don't see how she can keep up this pace without going bonkers. Although her father is the owner of the tavern, the work that is required to tend bar, especially if it's a busy bar, is physically and emotionally draining. <P>Put Plan A into high gear and give you and your wife a bit of time to adhere to the program. Have patience, my friend.<P><P>------------------<BR>Time heals all wounds as long as you DON'T pick at them!

We finally got our talk between Sunday & Monday. I FINALLY think we're getting somewhere. W has agreed to return all the gifts from OM and a NO CONTACT letter (which I hope to see tonight). She has been her "old self" the past few days and affection has returned. I also can sense the wall between us has come down!<P>I went over EN's and my Plan A. At first, I suggested her trying to give an honest effort and recommitment to our marriage for a trial period. I was thinking 6 months - D-Day has been 7. She said she didn't need that much time nor a trial time period; she loves me and will do whatever we need to repair the damage done. This is the breakthrough I've been waiting and praying for. It appears that the FOG may have lifted. 100% Plan A again...hopefully for life!<P>IFS/MM

Mark,<P>Sounds really good! Just don't be surprised if she has some ups and downs.<P>You have the right idea, let her see that your changes are for life. Sounds like she is seeing this, keep it up!<P>Steve

Progress has been halted here it appears. Last week went well; weekend - no hang-up phone calls and we had some good conversations. Earlier this week, I had questioned WHEN she was going to write the No Contact letter and give his stuff back (this has been an LB area for her). Seems like a reasonable question to me. Asked in the most loving, non-threatening way I knew. See's been "too busy". She has either been working (same town as where OM lives, by the way) all but 3 nights in the past 2 weeks and went up to see her parents on 2 of the nights she wasn't working. That's 14 of the last 15 days! It would only take a couple of minutes. Unless, of course, she really doesn't want to.<P>I helped my soon-to-be ex-brother-in-law move out of their house last night. W's sister has put him through the same thing - only she told him the truth (EA & PA). He could have used MB and I feel bad that he gave up so easily. This has made me pretty touchy. Most of us have seen divorce but it has never hit so close to home for me. I'm getting a little side-tracked here...<P>With a very clear head (but sick stomach!) I wrote the OM a No Contact letter to be included with her's. I had her read it. It was non-threatening and just to the point where I professed my love. There is a litany of things I'd like to say to him, but you know the reasons for not going there. She didn't see why I would write to HIM but I hoped it would get her to think too.<P>I caught her off-guard by saying that I need to move on, with or without her. That thought really breaks my heart, I still love her - warts and all. With what I've been working on in Plan A, I don't fear being alone as much as I could've. I don't like it as an alternative, but really, I've spent SO many weeknights, weekends and alot of time between BY MYSELF, I've gotten a lot of practice.<P>I looked for a part time job this week and she did not Enthusiastically Agree to that idea, so we've dropped it for now. She is gonna cut down her bartending down to one or two nights (weekdays) so that's a good sign. There is nothing I want more that to be able to move in to recovery. All I've ever asked is that she end this "thing" and agree to "try". Thanks Musohead for the encouragement on the OM getting desperate. She got several gifts this week and a bouquet of flowers. I didn't let it get to me this time. I feel like we could be close here.<P>IFS/Mark<p>[This message has been edited by Ifeelstupid (edited June 08, 2001).]

I am still in limbo-land. I wrote a several page letter (the "manifesto") detailing everything I knew about my W and the OM. EVERYTHING. Why couldn't I do this months ago? It was a pretty big LB for her and I'm not sure she can hardly stand me anymore. The idea that she would not go ahead with No Contact letter just drove me nearly crazy!<P>I'm not sure how I could've done anything differently. Anyone make the mistakes I have?<P>IFS/Mark