Seperated 2 months, 2 kids, found out about the OM last weekend. Much more serious than I assumed. I'm ready to give up, but my MB counselor suggests I wait a few weeks. I'm working on Plan A and need to Made My list of LB's and to do's and working on the list of demonstrating change to W. Am I missing anything??

Upps? I forgot to ask, One of things I need to do is make her feel safe, Any Suggestions on how I can make her feel safe through our conversations?<P>

I would go get "Surviving An Affair" for starters and it's available on this site. I consider it THE handbook for getting a handle on what's going on. I'm currently re-reading it. Don't make any major decisions for a while.<P>What caused you to separate to begin with? Would she reconsider moving back? Plan A would be much more effective with her there. Try to get your W to talk to you. Listen to what she says with your undivided, uninterrupted attention. Don't judge or show any signs of anger, no matter how wrong/irrational she may be. Put all your needs aside.<P>You're early in the game but you've came to the right place. You may want to post in "Just Found Out".<p>[This message has been edited by Ifeelstupid (edited May 25, 2001).]

Welcome <B>JK</B>...<P>There is a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000553.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P><B>About your post</B>...<P>Do start on a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>...<BR>Check out my post <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000176.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101 (2nd ed.)</A>.<P>There is a lot to learn... about Plan A...<BR>...the main thing... is "focusing on being the best you"...<BR>You'll be surprised... <B>it takes work</B>!<P>About making her feel safe...<BR>...don't hammer her about the "details" of the affair...<BR>...she'll have to get past the "withdrawal" first...<P> <P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>Jim</A> / <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037.html" TARGET=_blank>NSR</A><p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited May 25, 2001).]

Ok Ifeelstupid here's the story:<BR>My W has left after 6 years of marriage, took the kids (11 months and 4 1/2) and got her own place. The separation (2nd time in one year) is officially about 6 weeks old but she asked me to move out in the middle of February. I refused, as I didn't want to leave the kids. So we lived in the same house and lead separate lives, on several occasions she did not come home. She has admitted she met someone but has put it on hold and says she has not returned his calls. She also admitted to some level of intimacy with him but alluded to no sex.Which now is not the case. The rest of the story is the classic stuff I have been reading here and in Divorcing Busting, including 2 different marriage counselors who I now realize exasperated the problems. She has agreed not to file separation papers and hold off on the divorce but refuses to work on the Marriage more has she believes we have tried everything and she is done! I have been writing her letters in hopes I can convince her I "get it". The “it” is what she has been asking for the past 4 years, and I really didn’t get it. But now I do, duh! <P>We separated about 2 weeks prior to the birth of our son, now 11 months, under catastrophic circumstances. That was in the middle of May last year. For me it was like a get out of Jail free card, no OW I just couldn't take the **** any more. Eventually I did meet someone and dated a few time casually, and the W found out. After about 2 1/2 month of separation she asked me back an I agreed to move back in and we were going to work on the M. Things were great at first and we started with the Dr. Phil stuff, I between work and kids et al, I just couldn't keep up and in November we were back to our old patterns, By January It was bad and on Valentines day she asked me to move out. I will have to agree after the birth of our 4 1/2 year old the marriage started to deteriorate and at one point I gave it a "2" on a scale of 1 to 10. But I love her and realize that I now get it. But she says its too late. She did tell me she did not want to be divorced but definitely does not want to be married to me. I have made the classic mistakes since February and I backed off in the last few weeks. Another issue, I am an entrepreneur and we have lived on spikes of income and have recently been wiped out in the market, however I have recently procured a "real job". First one in 11 years. I realize this is very hard on a SO, especially with 2 small children. I feel like I'm on trial, keep your Job, don't meet anyone or F*#@ around and maybe I'll consider going to counseling. W will say, " You said you get it, you say you are different, prove it". How do I prove it? Once a week when we are talking something will trigger her to say "see you haven't changed' I done with you!.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ifeelstupid:<BR><B>I would go get "Surviving An Affair" for starters and it's available on this site. I consider it THE handbook for getting a handle on what's going on. I'm currently re-reading it. Don't make any major decisions for a while.<P>What caused you to separate to begin with? Would she reconsider moving back? Plan A would be much more effective with her there. Try to get your W to talk to you. Listen to what she says with your undivided, uninterrupted attention. Don't judge or show any signs of anger, no matter how wrong/irrational she may be. Put all your needs aside.<P>You're early in the game but you've came to the right place. You may want to post in "Just Found Out".<P>[This message has been edited by Ifeelstupid (edited May 25, 2001).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

NSR,<P>Thanks for the link, very helpful. I could use some more examples of how to make her feel safe in every day conversation, or do I simply wait until she gets past withdraw? And how do I know when she is out of withdraw?<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NSR:<BR><B>Welcome JK</B>...<P>There is a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000553.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P><B>About your post</B>...<P>Do start on a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>...<BR>Check out my post <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000176.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101 (2nd ed.)</A>.<P>There is a lot to learn... about Plan A...<BR>...the main thing... is "focusing on being the best you"...<BR>You'll be surprised... <B>it takes work</B>!<P>About making her feel safe...<BR>...don't hammer her about the "details" of the affair...<BR>...she'll have to get past the "withdrawal" first...<P> <P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>Jim</A> / <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037.html" TARGET=_blank>NSR</A><P>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited May 25, 2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

I'm in Plan A and H lives with OW. When I see H I go into Plan A action. Phone calls and letters or cards are a good way to communicate in plan A. I think the trick to make her feel safe is to not LB. When I am with H I pretend OW does not exist-that way I can create a pleasant time for us together. I think the heavy duty conversations can come after he has recommitted-if that happens.Become her best friend again.

MAEZY,<BR>Good Stuff, sounds so simple, No LB'ing and she'll feel safe? OK. Also I like the pretending the OM does not exist.<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MAEZY:<BR><B>I'm in Plan A and H lives with OW. When I see H I go into Plan A action. Phone calls and letters or cards are a good way to communicate in plan A. I think the trick to make her feel safe is to not LB. When I am with H I pretend OW does not exist-that way I can create a pleasant time for us together. I think the heavy duty conversations can come after he has recommitted-if that happens.Become her best friend again.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

If you wait until she finishes with withdrawal...<BR>...means it will be too late.<P>Pull down both the questionnaires...<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4120_lovebustq.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters Questionnaire</A> and the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4110_emndsq.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs Questionnaire</A>.<P>Fill them out (if she won't join you)... do it your self...<BR>...<B>from both points of view</B>... you have to guess at what your W's view is... if she doesn't join you.<P>Be honest in identifying ALL your LBs recognizing "your W defines the most hurtful LBs you do to her!"<P>When time comes... and the "mood" hits her... ask her if X, Y or Z are still bothering her.<P>Do the same with the Emotional Needs...<BR>...and <B>ever day</B>... work on a concrete action towards at least <B>one</B> EN!<P>If surprizing her isn't her cup of tea...<BR>...ask her about a planned activity 2 or 3 days in advance...<BR>...and <B>always</B> have a back-up planned activity.<P>It doesn't have to be expensive...<BR>love notes... hidden throughout the house... (one leading to another0)...<BR>make her a chocolate cake with your 4 1/2 year old...<BR>...and make sure to laugh about all the cleanup you'll have to do<BR>Fill you bed with balloons... filled with poetic quips<BR>Rent her favorite movies... get a huge bag of popcorn...<BR>...and have a few games with the popcorn!<BR>...be creative... and turn her moods into 'fun time'!<P>Check out some if these books too:<BR><OL TYPE=1><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0785273662" TARGET=_blank><B>A Celebration of Sex</B></A> by Dr. Douglas E. Rosenau <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0440207533" TARGET=_blank><B>Light His Fire </B>: How to Keep Your Man Passionately and Hopelessly in Love</A> by Ellen Kreidman <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805058265" TARGET=_blank><B>Passionate Marriage :</B> Love, Sex, and Intimacy in Emotionally Committed Relationships</A> by David Schnarch <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0800757092" TARGET=_blank><B>Sex Begins in the Kitchen :</B> Because Love Is an All-Day Affair</A> by Kevin Leman <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0310214149" TARGET=_blank><B>What Husbands Wish Their Wives Knew About Men</B></A> by Patrick M. Morley <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0842378960" TARGET=_blank><B>What Wives Wish Their Husbands Knew About Women</B></A> by James C. Dobson <BR></OL><P><BR> <P>Jim<BR>

NSR,<BR>I don't understand? I know she is in withdraw but eventually she come out of it one way or another? Also, Please keep in mind we are seperated. So I can only do so much, she has agreed to do things as a family for the sake of the kids. So I'll need to take advantage of those times, no love notes, yet. Any ideas for 1 or 2 family times per month??<P>JK<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NSR:<BR><B>If you wait until she finishes with withdrawal...<BR>...means it will be too late.<P>Pull down both the questionnaires...<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4120_lovebustq.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters Questionnaire</A> and the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4110_emndsq.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs Questionnaire</A>.<P>Fill them out (if she won't join you)... do it your self...<BR>...from both points of view</B>... you have to guess at what your W's view is... if she doesn't join you.<P>Be honest in identifying ALL your LBs recognizing "your W defines the most hurtful LBs you do to her!"<P>When time comes... and the "mood" hits her... ask her if X, Y or Z are still bothering her.<P>Do the same with the Emotional Needs...<BR>...and <B>ever day</B>... work on a concrete action towards at least <B>one</B> EN!<P>If surprizing her isn't her cup of tea...<BR>...ask her about a planned activity 2 or 3 days in advance...<BR>...and <B>always</B> have a back-up planned activity.<P>It doesn't have to be expensive...<BR>love notes... hidden throughout the house... (one leading to another0)...<BR>make her a chocolate cake with your 4 1/2 year old...<BR>...and make sure to laugh about all the cleanup you'll have to do<BR>Fill you bed with balloons... filled with poetic quips<BR>Rent her favorite movies... get a huge bag of popcorn...<BR>...and have a few games with the popcorn!<BR>...be creative... and turn her moods into 'fun time'!<P>Check out some if these books too:<BR><OL TYPE=1><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0785273662" TARGET=_blank><B>A Celebration of Sex</B></A> by Dr. Douglas E. Rosenau <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0440207533" TARGET=_blank><B>Light His Fire </B>: How to Keep Your Man Passionately and Hopelessly in Love</A> by Ellen Kreidman <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805058265" TARGET=_blank><B>Passionate Marriage :</B> Love, Sex, and Intimacy in Emotionally Committed Relationships</A> by David Schnarch <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0800757092" TARGET=_blank><B>Sex Begins in the Kitchen :</B> Because Love Is an All-Day Affair</A> by Kevin Leman <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0310214149" TARGET=_blank><B>What Husbands Wish Their Wives Knew About Men</B></A> by Patrick M. Morley <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0842378960" TARGET=_blank><B>What Wives Wish Their Husbands Knew About Women</B></A> by James C. Dobson <BR></OL><P><BR> <P>Jim<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

I'm not sure who moved out last... you or your W...<P>Why can't you move back together again?<P> <P>Jim

JK-Family get togethers will be a wonderful opportunity for you to meet her EN's. I'm sure your actions will remind her what a wonderful father you are, which I believe would make a big difference.Filling out the questionaire as NSR suggested , should be helpful too. I had to guess for my H and am working on these.BTW, you really are on trial here so don't blow it! If you need to complain come here to do it.<BR>How about a family picnic orjust outings for ice-cream and such?I liked NSR's cake idea.

MAEZy, That's part of my plan. She admits I'm a wonderful father,just a lousy H. And she was right, but I see the light know and realize what it takes, but says it's to late.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MAEZY:<BR><B>JK-Family get togethers will be a wonderful opportunity for you to meet her EN's. I'm sure your actions will remind her what a wonderful father you are, which I believe would make a big difference.Filling out the questionaire as NSR suggested , should be helpful too. I had to guess for my H and am working on these.BTW, you really are on trial here so don't blow it! If you need to complain come here to do it.<BR>How about a family picnic orjust outings for ice-cream and such?I liked NSR's cake idea.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

NSR,<P>We sold the house in Feburary to settle in April. She asked me to move out in 2 days after selling the house. In april she moved into her own place with the kids. I'd love to move back in together, I can't even get her to work on the Marriage, and I quote, "you don't get it, I'm done". <P>JK<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NSR:<BR><B>I'm not sure who moved out last... you or your W...<P>Why can't you move back together again?<P> <P>Jim</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

JK,<P>I could have wrote your post. I was entrepreneur, worked alot (at home in evenings alot). We lost the togetherness, didn't do alot together. Feb 2000, she says she needs to experience things she didn't when young. Started to go out alot, we talked about US, both agreed we would not need counselling (bad move). I too, now have a "real" job.<P>June 1 2000, she says she is unhappy and it is too late. I do like you...try to convince her that we can make it. She says flame is out. I didn't think there could be anyone else, but by August, I found out there had been, and even before June 1, she was having long conversations on the phone (cell) with OM. By mid June, she had told mutual friends that he wanted her to have his babies if they got married (we have 2 kids).<P>Based on my experience, I highly doubt your wife is telling the truth about OM. Not coming home at night, bla bla bla. It is the same old stuff we all experience, and they deny there is anything still going on. Mine did that, kept denying there was anything....even till this day she says there wasn't. However, I had installed keyboard tracking software, so I know everything that went on.<P>I'd suggest you post on GQII forum, because you'll get more response. You need to read as much as possible about Plan A. You don't see results right away, and she'll not react much anyway because she is in the fantasy stage of whatever relationship she has going. But it is the long term effects of Plan A that work, when they do...(no guarantee). You've got to stomach the crap till the affair begins to wear off. Don't believe all this "I tried and it is too late" stuff. I got the same. They have to backfill/retrofit history now to suit their current desires.<P>Post questions as often as you like....we're in the same boat (many of us). Good luck.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Rick37 (edited May 27, 2001).]

Rcik37, Thanks for the post, She is still seeing him, and told me she "likes" him. I know she hasn't told me th whole truth about him and I also know it won't last, but how do I stick with it and remain sane? Whats the status of your situation?<P>JK<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rick37:<BR><B>JK,<P>I could have wrote your post. I was entrepreneur, worked alot (at home in evenings alot). We lost the togetherness, didn't do alot together. Feb 2000, she says she needs to experience things she didn't when young. Started to go out alot, we talked about US, both agreed we would not need counselling (bad move). I too, now have a "real" job.<P>June 1 2000, she says she is unhappy and it is too late. I do like you...try to convince her that we can make it. She says flame is out. I didn't think there could be anyone else, but by August, I found out there had been, and even before June 1, she was having long conversations on the phone (cell) with OM. By mid June, she had told mutual friends that he wanted her to have his babies if they got married (we have 2 kids).<P>Based on my experience, I highly doubt your wife is telling the truth about OM. Not coming home at night, bla bla bla. It is the same old stuff we all experience, and they deny there is anything still going on. Mine did that, kept denying there was anything....even till this day she says there wasn't. However, I had installed keyboard tracking software, so I know everything that went on.<P>I'd suggest you post on GQII forum, because you'll get more response. You need to read as much as possible about Plan A. You don't see results right away, and she'll not react much anyway because she is in the fantasy stage of whatever relationship she has going. But it is the long term effects of Plan A that work, when they do...(no guarantee). You've got to stomach the crap till the affair begins to wear off. Don't believe all this "I tried and it is too late" stuff. I got the same. They have to backfill/retrofit history now to suit their current desires.<P>Post questions as often as you like....we're in the same boat (many of us). Good luck.<P>[This message has been edited by Rick37 (edited May 27, 2001).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

JK & Rick37,<BR>I feel like I am reading my own story!!<P>W is also angry that I am doing this "too late", how do I show her that this is not? I guess what I am asking is how do I start?<P>One of JK's orginal question was how to make her feel safe through our conversations. but how do I even start when she resent the my attention to her?<P>

JK & Rick37,<BR>I feel like I am reading my own story!!<P>W is also angry that I am doing this "too late", how do I show her that this is not? I guess what I am asking is how do I start?<P>One of JK's orginal question was how to make her feel safe through our conversations. but how do I even start when she resent the my attention to her?<P>