Long post a coming-sorry!<BR>Dday was about 6 weeks afo. Wife had affair, Pa only, although she was trying to make it EA. Wife has tendancy to fall for carbon copies of father - goodlooking, slick, charming, abusers (or losers). When confronted about it, she is concerned thinking that she is missing the right chemistry for me, that she loves me as a brother or best friend but not as husband/wife, and that she may have married me for wrong reasons (for friendship, companionship). We were best friends and had a great relationship, except for sex, which she had a hard time getting attracted to me during. <BR>So I asked that we start therapy, which she did, first going once with me then under suggestion by therapist her alone for a few weeks. I was in Plan A, and doing it very well - no LB, giving her a lot of love, etc. She on the other hand keeps drawing away - starts sleeping seperately, stops walking around nude, etc. <BR>2 weeks ago she lets me know that therapist is suggesting seperation, so she can get her head clear and figure what she wants to do. I'm against it, but she seems adamant, so I say that maybe we can do it and we'll see how therapy goes.<BR>Meantime I am hanging out w/ my Dad, a retired attorney, talking to him about it, and he tells me that she is either still cheating or "targetting a future replacement". I'm not believing it, but he says it' a feeling for what I'm describing after 30 years of divorces and arbitration, and I had better ask. So I do. <BR>Turns out he's right - wife has been sneaking out to spend time with a guy from her kungfu class (she talks adv classes at the same school I take beginner classes in). She says that it's just been a few dates, nothing physical other than necking, but that she's getting feelings for this guy. The guy in question is the type I described above (good looking, charming, slick) living at home at 27, musician, etc. She and I are 30. <BR>I'm furious - she said she was trying to make it work, and now she's getting around to this?? Anyway, I basically said it seemed like she was trying to provoke me to throw her out, and she has broken my trust in her (she has been caught by me in lies like this now 3-4 times since dday). And that she keeps talking about staying friends, even if marriage fails, but this isn't how friends treat each other. <BR>So what now? She says her relationship with guy is over. I made her call guy and break it off. She was begging me to not throw her out - but she still wants to get seperated! It seems my a'ing isn't helping. Should I move to B? Especially since we are getting sep'd anyway? She seems adamanet about it, and about how she needs to make up her mind whether the great marriage/relationship we have (minus the chemistry) is enough to fight for, or should she be out looking for guys that *do* do it for her, like she is (sadly and obviously) doing now.<BR>I left her alone and went to stay at parents, telling her to think about what she wants. I'm pretty bleak right now.<BR><P>------------------<BR>

Ernie,<P>If at all possible...<BR>...stick with Plan A a bit longer...<BR>...and move back in with her...<BR>...without moveing back... her A will only intensify!<P>Do Plan A for as long as you can.<P>When you really hit your limit...<BR>...then go to Plan B!<P>You're only 6 weeks into this...<BR>... 6 months would be better...<BR>... but if you can't... (really can't) last any longer...<BR>... then, yes... go with Plan B... <B>all the way</B>!<P>Re-read <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank> "Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A>... and <BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000176.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101 (2nd ed.)</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000177.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B - 101 (2nd ed.)</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000413.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B - 201</A>!<P> <P>Jim

Ernie,<P>I'm glad for the update, I've been wondering what was going on with you and looking for posts, but I am SO sorry it is such bad news! I wish I had the majic bullet to fix your situation. I would really hate to give the wrong advice, but my opinion is if you guys are going to seperate then getting a Plan B in place is the best choice, and probably in this case it is the only choice. Once you move to Plan B your odds aren't as good normally, but in your particular case I have to say it may be the only thing that is going to snap her out of this immature behavior.<P>Have you considered calling the Harley's for advice? If you can it may be a good idea to help you come up with the right plan for your case, some expert opinion is cheaper than divorce. I am very hesitant in saying my opinion is the right thing, just what my reacton would be.<P>Your wife is very lucky to have a guy like you, and I have to say I think you deserve better treatment than this! You shouldn't put up with her going around seeking OM and making out etc. How to best handle it though I think is where an expert should come in. I'm definitely not an expert, and never had to handle the move to Plan B, (thank God).<P>Please keep posting updates to what is going on. I for one am very concerned about you. You have a place here to get some emotional support besides just advice. Praying you will see better days soon. I know how painful all this is.<P>

Thanks all for the support.<BR>I only went away for one night, so I'm back home. On the one hand she is trying to be chipper about everything, one would go as far as "flippant". Not cold. Last night we talked some more about everything. <BR>She basically says that she is 99% positive at this point, that she isn't attracted to me in theright way, and that she's not sure if she was ever, and that without this the marriage won't work. And, that other people elicit this response in her (like the OM I just learned about). When I asked if she wanted to - even knowing she doesn't feel anything - not leave, but get therapy to try to work out this problem, maybe rekindle or develop the feelings, she felt that that isn't something you can develop, you either have it or you don't. Also that she "didn't want to drag it out". She is actively making plans for the seperation. She says that during seperation, she will be trying to work on issues with me, still do therapy, but she can't garantee she won't date other people. She says the point of the therapy is for her to learn whether or not these feelings exist for her with other people. <BR>It's next to impossible for me to A at this point. I know I'm actively in withdrawl. She has totally depleted anything I've got left. Our relationship has been very one sided for a long time, with her doing most of the taking and me most of the giving (I've been supporting her both physcially, financially, lovingly; for 12+years, friends for 8, engaged/married for 4). Her throwing away the friendship (which was all we had left) and her callous disregard for the marriage (actively seeking out a new man while she was telling *ME* not to commit to anyone else if we got split, to give her time to get it together) has left me feeling entirely depleted. Where I once hated the idea of seperation I'm finding I may need it to keep my sanity, although I'm sure she'll be dating others while doing it. <BR>This, for me, is the lowest point since this all started. When I learned of the 1st affair, I could deal with it, because I can forgive her and repair it and move on. Even having her tell me she did it because she's not attracted to me and she "wanted to see what it was like with this more attractive guy" wasn't terrible because I thought we could work it out in therapy. But her doing this DURING the therapy with a NEW guy is really killing me.

Yea, Ernie, it really does sound like Plan B time to say the least. She most likely is looking for freedom to continue having affairs with it though, think you are right there, so I wouldn't do it unless you are really prepared for that, sounds like you are and then some. Get firm when you go into Plan B and let her know you are not going to tolerate this behavior anymore. If she wants to come back it is going to have to be because she has at least a commitment to the marriage ala fidelity. I think you have done as much as you can do with Plan A, you've been doing it without even trying for so long now that if doesn't miss that when you are gone I would be surprised. Still, have you considered getting help w/ your Plan B from the Harley's themselves? I know there is suposed to be a letter you give her, I'm really not up on that aspect of recovery and how to carry into Plan B.<P>

Ernie, stilleverafter mentions a book that might help you in her response to this thread in recovery <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/003215.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/003215.html</A> called "Love must be tough". Thought this might help you, sounds like a similar situation to yours she described.

Last night we talked about stuff, and how it went with the therapist that day. She said she figured out:<BR>a) She can't imagine any circumstances that would make her attracted to me, regardless of what I could do;<BR>b) When I had her call/confront/tell to go away the new OM, she did it only to avoid a confrontation with me, and she really didn't want to, and most likely she is going to contact him again. And she's not guilty about what she did.<BR>c) She says I'm in denial, that the relationship is unhealthy, and no amount of work will save it, most likely.<BR>d) she doesn't want to drag it out.<BR>So the seperation is a done deal. I told her then she needs to be out by sunday (I'm going away fri night until monday, so she'll be gone when I get back). For some reason, she considers this being thrown out, since I'm not giving her an endless amount of time to make arrangements. She was crying about me throwing her out, but not about anything she's done.<BR>She is saying, however, that she wants to be seperated, not divorced, because she is not 100% sure that she wants to leave me, just like 95% sure. Or perhaps she just can't bear to make the final step.<BR>So, should I be PLan B'ing or just move my thread to "recovery" and assume it's over. :_)<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ScaredInNY:<BR><B>Yea, Ernie, it really does sound like Plan B time to say the least. She most likely is looking for freedom to continue having affairs with it though, think you are right there, so I wouldn't do it unless you are really prepared for that, sounds like you are and then some. Get firm when you go into Plan B and let her know you are not going to tolerate this behavior anymore. If she wants to come back it is going to have to be because she has at least a commitment to the marriage ala fidelity. I think you have done as much as you can do with Plan A, you've been doing it without even trying for so long now that if doesn't miss that when you are gone I would be surprised. Still, have you considered getting help w/ your Plan B from the Harley's themselves? I know there is suposed to be a letter you give her, I'm really not up on that aspect of recovery and how to carry into Plan B.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Just a thought...would she consider an agreement for her to give your marriage another try for a time period? She has to get away from the OM before she can truly do some soul searching. This seems to be working for me and my W. I am appalled by how shallow our partners can be! I hope the FOG can lift before Plan B is implemented. <P>IFS/Mark

I've tried but she won't. Oh she says she isn't *planning* on seeing him...but when directly asked, she isn't going to avoid it either. As well, she feels that the only way she can be sure if I'm the right one, if her feeings for me exist, is to sample som different men and see if she has feelings for them, too. Quote.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ernie:<BR><B>b) When I had her call/confront/tell to go away the new OM, she did it only to avoid a confrontation with me, and she really didn't want to, and most likely she is going to contact him again. And she's not guilty about what she did.<P>So, should I be PLan B'ing or just move my thread to "recovery" and assume it's over. :_)<P> </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ernie,<P>How did it go this weekend? I'm sorry I did not see this earlier, busy this weekend. I have to say I certainly don't blame you for the move to Plan B if she is still contacting OM with no remorse, and I'm sorry. This must be a very difficult time for you. I have never made the Plan B move, so I hope others will be able to advise you there.<P>As for where to post, you are welcome anywhere, but recovery is for people who are together and working through the recovery process. You can post here or in General Questions where there are more people depending on what you want to do, but always feel welcome to post.<P>I hope that your wife snaps out of it with a good dose of reality and sees that the grass is no greener, in fact there are alot of weeds out there. Hang in there, and do update us on the situation!<P><BR>

In my opinion you should treat your marriage as if it was dead and file for divorce. Your wife's attitude that she needs to screw around with other men in order to find herself is hogwash. Her behaviour shows no respect for your feelings or her marriage. This is a woman who has lost her integrity and moral values. The only way you are going to possibly get through to her is to file for divorce and show her that you are not going to put up with her nonsense. To ask you to wait around in case she does not find her soul mate shows disrespect and contempt for you and her marriage.

Well, this weekend. I went to Montreal with a friend of mine and came back tonight - she was gone. No note, no goodbye token, no idea of where she is, which she said she would leave. I called her cell and got her - she was cool and clipped but civil, told me she was staying with a friend in a town 20 miles away (not the OM, if she wasn't lying). she only took enough stuff to crash with, until she finds a place permanently. Over the weekend, my friend's wife called her to see if she needed someone to talk to, which she declined. The only thing she did tell her was that she thought I was being totally unfair making her leave so abruptly like this (mind you, she told me 6 weeks ago about affair #1, and told me 2 weeks ago about #2 about to happen) and that I should just have let her live with me until she was able to leave on her own (while seeing Om of course I'm sure). I asked if she still wanted to meet on wed for joint therapy, as we are supposedly seperated but still working on it, but she said most likely not, she'd let me know, she wants some space now.<BR>So it looks like that's that, I guess, which sucks- I really gave her 100% of the last 5 years and a huge chunk of the 8 before them. I want to still hope against hope we can reconcile, I really want to.

Ernie,<P>I'm so sorry, you don't deserve this treatment. I think you have done the right thing now, and given her alot to think about. Stick tough to Plab B now, don't chase her around, try to refocus on you for a while. Maybe individual counseling might not be a bad idea to help you through this. Pamper yourself a little too, you deserve it!<P>