She isn't always a slut.<P>She isn't always a hussy.<P>Sometimes your marriage is just over because it's over, and has nothing to do with her.<P>You have no idea what he told her.<P>You aren't always better than her. She isn't always stupid, or shallow, or wicked, or a homewrecker.<P>Sometimes it's just that he doesn't love you any more; that can be entirely separate from the fact that he does love her.<P>I know you're angry, but that doesn't make the woman who loved your husband any less of a human being. You'd probably like her if you had met her in other circumstances. Lots of times she's smart and pretty and decent and kind and fun to be around.<P>Fix it if you can fix it; move on if you can't. The fault lies with your husband. The other woman didn't make the choice for him, and she owes you nothing at all.<P>Good luck with that.<P>------------------<BR>There's more than one side to every story...

Of course there are many sides to every story. But, within a given culture, there are norms to which every member of that culture is privy. In our society, a marriage between two individuals is a public statement of a bond between those two persons. It may've broken down; it may be a sham; it's usually a complex situation. No person outside the marriage can possibly know what goes on between the married individuals, no matter what is being said.<P>What a potential OP can know is that if someone is married, they are not free, emotionally, legally, or otherwise, to enter into another relationship. A potential OP has a choice, and has responsibility for the choice he/she makes, no matter what personal beliefs/desires may be driving OP's actions. OP may not have chosen to "fall in love", but OP chose to act on the feeling, with disregard for the consequences, which can be painful indeed for the OP as well as those in the M which has been affected by the A. octavia99

No you are wrong!!! The other woman made choice all right... to sleep with a married man... or... if she wasn't told that, to sleep with a man she obviously didn't know well. Grow up!!! And yes, in my book she is all those things.... a slut, a whore, pond scum, the algea that grows on pond scum, the larvae of an insect that feeds on the algea of pond scum.....I could go on and on but why waste my time?

True the man made the choice on his own, but YES you do owe the betrayed spouse something. Back off! Let the man work out his problems on his own without your interferance. Maybe it is over, maybe its not. If he divorces his wife of his own free, then fine. He needs to realize his true feelings without your lies & manipulation. Whatever you think about yourself being true to your heart, you are receiving some sort of "payoff" for yourself by being with a man who is married to someone else. His wife is the one who has to cope with the real man, good and bad. You two together are just pretending and living in a dream world. <P>And what makes you think that this man wont run away from you once he sees your true colors and run to the next "other woman". It is a fog, a game of pretend. Find yourself a man who is not married. There are plenty out there. Get off this ego trip that you are on that you are such a good woman that you can get any man you want. That is not a good person, that is a homewrecker.<P>There is a separate website for "other women. Please go there and stop trying to justify your actions to those of us who are in such grief & pain because of the likes of you contributing to it! You had the choice to say NO and you didnt.

Her:<BR><I>She isn't always a slut.<BR>She isn't always a hussy.</I> Actions speak louder than words.<P><I>Sometimes your marriage is just over because it's over, and has nothing to do with her.</I> When she allows herself to be with a married man, she has allowed the marriage to have one more complication. <P><I>You have no idea what he told her.</I> You have no idea what he's telling the wife.<P><I>You aren't always better than her. She isn't always stupid, or shallow, or wicked, or a homewrecker. </I> And the wife isn't always as demanding, angry, unattractive, undesireable, sexually inhibited, or nags.<P><I>Sometimes it's just that he doesn't love you any more; that can be entirely separate from the fact that he does love her. </I> Love is complicated and goes through stages. In Love is romantic. Real Love endures.<P><I>I know you're angry, but that doesn't make the woman who loved your husband any less of a human being. </I> Angry? Hurt! Demoralized! Torn apart! Sad!<P><I>You'd probably like her if you had met her in other circumstances. Lots of times she's smart and pretty and decent and kind and fun to be around. </I> like? doubtful. I couldn't like someone that I didn't respect and I can't respect someone who not only breaks their own marriage vows, but opens their arms to a man who is breaking his marriage vows.<P><I>Fix it if you can fix it; move on if you can't. The fault lies with your husband. The other woman didn't make the choice for him, and she owes you nothing at all. </I> If you are at all in the picture, if you still contact him, say "I love you" to him, the marriage/relationship cannot be rebuilt. A marriage is for two people. You don't owe the wife anything, but you owe yourself your self-respect and a man who is free and clear and able to be with you with no complications.<P><B>Good luck with that.</B><P><P>------------------<BR>Cali<P>"Humble yourselves, therefore,under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you." <P>1 Peter 5:6-7

BOY DID YOU EVER PICK THE WRONG THINGS TO POST HERE, LADY!<BR>TRYING TO JUSTIFY BEING THE "OW" ISN'T CUTTING IT HERE.<P>I'm answering your post by borrowing from another post I read this morning.<P>"She isn't always a slut."<BR>1. "She was available and willing and made those facts VERY clear."<BR>2. "He was depressed, feeling weak and powerless. He got to play Knight in Shining armor. A self assured, confident career woman doesn't need a KISA, no feeling of power or being a do gooder with someone who is strong on their own."<BR>3. He was also having a mid life crisis. His words "I wish I was back in college. I don't feel like I can handle responsibility anymore." OW was 15 years younger, liked to hang out in bars and party, smoke pot etc. She often invited him along (long before the A).<P>"She isn't always a hussy."<P>4. "Validation - She was a bug in his ear telling him that his marriage was the source of his unhappiness. Not depression, not mid life crisis. She told him he needed to "get away from your W and go out and have some fun." No matter what heinous thing he did to me she would tell him it was okay." <P>Sometimes the marriage has problems, but WASN'T that close to being OVER until someone pushes it.<P>"Sometimes your marriage is just over because it's over, and has nothing to do with her."<BR>It has everything to do with HER being in the middle of a H and W's problems.<P>"You have no idea what he told her."<BR>The W has NO IDEA what you told HIM.<P>"You aren't always better than her. She isn't always stupid, or shallow, or wicked, or a homewrecker."<BR>She is if she PAID for the divorce.<P>"Sometimes it's just that he doesn't love you any more; that can be entirely separate from the fact that he does love her."<BR>Love being a choice has already been discussed here, not any more to say. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO LOVE A MAN IN A COMMITTED MARRIAGE.<P>"I know you're angry, but that doesn't make the woman who loved your husband any less of a human being. You'd probably like her if you had met her in other circumstances. Lots of times she's smart and pretty and decent and kind and fun to be around."<BR>I doubt she'd have a qualities I want to find in any friend of mine. I don't need smart, I'm smart. I don't need pretty, I'm pretty enough, I don't need fun to be around. I have enought fun on my own. I DOUBT that she's DECENT or KIND, or she would have sent my H packing back home where he belongs! That's what I have done in the past. Oh, yeah, we've all been tempted, do YOU think you're the only one who has had a married man interested in you? Then you're DUMBER than your post! But if a woman has self-respect, and integrity she can rise above this low-life type of response to just sexual attraction (or WHATEVER it is that makes you do what you do).<P>"Fix it if you can fix it; move on if you can't. The fault lies with your husband. The other woman didn't make the choice for him, and she owes you nothing at all."<BR>She does if she called MY HOUSE when I wasn't there to speak with him everyday. She does owe me something if she enticed him with talk of NO responsibilities, romantic evenings, splitting assets (NONE OF HER BUSINESS), big plans for the future, without W and making him think life in another place would be heaven, and life at home was a living HELL in just a few short weeks. <P>Yes, that's what my H's OW did for me. Not a slut? NOT a hussy? Maybe not, but I bet the terms I come up with would fit better. But most of them have already been written.<P>Good luck with that.<P>RIGHT BACK AT YOU.<BR>Lupo<BR>

Besides this being an obvious Troll...The only, only time I can imagine that being the OP is not the OP's fault is when they have zero, and I mean zero, idea of the married status of the spouse. And that, of course, is extremely rare. You know pretty quickly.<P>However, what the OP *IS* without any doubt (while they can be funny, nice, blah blah blah) is that the OP is ALWAYS:<BR>Dishonorable, Dishonest, and disrespecting of commitment. Period. <BR>-->Anyone who knows the spouse is a spouse who persues the relationship shows their contempt for marriage. Also, by not telling the spouse "no way married person - get single first!" they show the same contempt for commitment.<BR>-->Whenever the OP doesn't tell the betrayed spouse what is going on, then they are lying (A lie of omission is still a lie).<BR>-->Anyone who can do this to another person by stealing something that is not their's, has no honor. There is no honor amoung thieves, as it is said.<BR>When my wife had an affair with a fellow from a class she and I were taking, I told her that she was hooking up with a loser. She replied that he wasn't, he was a nice guy. I thought he was too. But now I know he is dishonorable, two-faced and lying (to see me every day and not tell me), and someone who likes to break other people's commitments. Is that what you want in a boyfriend/mate/lover?<P>Her, if you are an OW who feels like you are not the demon made out by the hurt people here, perhaps you aren't. You could be a nice person...but you still are all of the above. Unless, of course, you knew zero about what was going on, and then cut it off when you did learn (and told the wife too). Otherwise...there's a clue store with lovely clues you can get I can send you to.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Ernie (edited June 05, 2001).]

I've been on both sides of the coin, having found my former husband in bed with another woman when we were contemplating divorce over a decade ago.<P>I simply realized later that, whether she had been around or not, my marriage was over.<P>Most 'other women' don't think of ourselves as better or prettier or more desirable than the wives. It's not an accomplishment to 'catch someone else's man.'<P>Most of us are aware of the tragedy involved.<P>I wouldn't have become involved if he wasn't already divorcing. If he goes back to her for reconciliation, he has my blessing.<P>When his wife called my home with profanities, I let it slide, knowing she was in agony.<P>I have been a wife. I am now an 'other woman,' though I told him to get his life figured out and then come back if that's the path he chose. I'm the one who suggested that they try counseling. I'm the one who lent him books about marriage and tried to tell him how she really feels. I'm the one who said I wouldn't see him until he knew why he was leaving and had explored every aspect of his marriage with me out of the picture.<P>It may make you feel better to assume she is less than you, but it simply isn't always the case. Each situation is different, but I wouldn't be where I am if he didn't already want to leave. <P><P>------------------<BR>There's more than one side to every story...

All the things you say may be true i.e. the marriage already being over, etc. But, the problem lies in the fact that the wife is not privy to the choice to end the marriage. I know in my situation (an OW), I recognized that my partner had actually emotionally divorced and gotten remarried (to me) without his wife ever knowing. That is wrong and that is unfair to strip her of that choice. If he no longer wants to be married to her, then he should tell her before he "remarries." There was a time when I would have said the same things you are saying. But, in the past year since a pile of self help books were dumped in my lap purely by accident, I have come to feel much differently.<P>It is true that you don't owe his wife anything, unless you were or are her friend. In my case, she wouldn't have known me if I saw her or called her. I'd never met her. I certainly hadn't lived with her or made promises to her. And, I didn't force her H to pursue me. But he owes her something, namely a choice. I'm not going to say end the relationship. You really don't have any responsibility to her or his marriage. But what I am going to say from experience is that you have to recognize that he is very possibly leaving her without her knowledge. And, when she finds out he's left, not only left but given himself to another, she's going to be devastated. But, you say you know that becaue you had it happen to you. <P>I agree with you that the affair is rarely about the OW. Of course, the BS wants to focus their anger on her, but it's really not about her. However, you really need to do all you can to encourage the WS to be honest with his W. It's the right thing to do.<P>JAL

<B>All the things you say may be true i.e. the marriage already being over, etc. But, the problem lies in the fact that the wife is not privy to the choice to end the marriage. I know in my situation (an OW), I recognized that my partner had actually emotionally divorced and gotten remarried (to me) without his wife ever knowing. That is wrong and that is unfair to strip her of that choice. If he no longer wants to be married to her, then he should tell her before he "remarries." </B><P>This is exactly how I feel. He's had months to come to this decision without letting me know. He kept his 'true' feelings hidden and let me feel 'safe' in our marriage that he said we would always work on. Then he gets a feeling of lust, an OW who 'listens' to him and encourages his selfishness and BAMM! all his commitment and words of trust and honesty go out the window and I'm just supposed to accept his decision.<P>He does 'owe' our marriage, or relationship and our children the opportunity to really 'work' on it. That's what making and taking vows mean.<P>Forever doesn't mean "until I feel differently" or "until I've decided I made a mistake."<P><P>------------------<BR>Cali<P>"Humble yourselves, therefore,under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you." <P>1 Peter 5:6-7

<<<<the problem lies in the fact that the wife is not privy to the choice to end the marriage. I know in my situation (an OW), I recognized that my partner had actually emotionally divorced and gotten remarried (to me) without his wife ever knowing. That is wrong and that is unfair to strip her of that choice. If he no longer wants to be married to her, then he should tell her before he "remarries.">>>><P>Kudos to you, JustALurker. I could not have said it better. This statement encompasses the reason behind the anger, hurt, resentment and numerous other negative feelings that the betrayed spouse feels after the affair is acknowledged. My thanks to you for seeing all sides of the this multi-faceted fiasco termed as an "affair."<P>------------------<BR><B>Time heals all wounds as long as you DON'T pick at them!</B>

In my case he asked her for a divorce before anything serious ever happened between the two of us; even his wife, when they're not in the heat of an argument, admits that the problems were there long before I ever made an appearance.<P>She has known of my existence all along. She knows my phone number and has a pretty good idea of where I live. He has never made any pretense at all that I don't exist, although he tries to spare her the painful details.<P>I have never denied that he owes himself and his family every effort to explore his marriage and his feelings. I have told him that on many occasions and encouraged him to do the right thing. She sees a counselor, he sees a counselor, they've seen a counselor together. He moved out. He moved back in. He promised her he would never speak to me again, a promise I have encouraged him to keep as long as there was any chance at all of keeping his marriage intact.<P>I have never made any attempt to contact him at home or to disrupt his home life any more than our relationship already has. It is he who continues to reopen lines of communication and I who continually hesitate to give him words of love or encouragement because I don't want to pull him in my direction as long as he believes this promise is necessary. <P>He tells me that reconciliation with his wife is impossible. I ask, 'are you sure?' He tells me she's unbearable to be around and entirely unreasonable. I justify her behavior and try to get him to understand her desperation and rage.<P>Trust me, I'm not going through this misery for a roll in the hay. This is no dalliance, no ego trip. I'm a smart girl who's surprised to find herself in this position, especially having been a betrayed wife myself and taking a very long time to recover from the emotional damage.<P>I've found, through both experiences, that there are as many different situations as there are people. I think it's a terrible shame to stroll into the middle of a marriage and tear it apart, but I also think that sometimes people find love in less-than-ideal circumstances, and it isn't always a matter of fault. I've lost a lot of anger toward the 'other woman' in my bitter divorce and gotten a much broader perspective about what happens in relationships. It's rarely a matter of black and white.<P>I have a great deal of respect and compassion for his wife and have stepped out of her way on more than one occasion. I know exactly how it feels to be in her shoes, to be unable to push the unwanted images from your mind's eye. I wish we had met later, when this ugly mess was through. I can't tell you how much I wish that, but it didn't happen that way.<P>Now all three of us can only do the best we can to cause the least damage.<P>------------------<BR>There's more than one side to every story...

"In my case he asked her for a divorce before anything serious ever happened between the two of us"<P>If he wanted a divorce at any time, all he had to do was to move out and file for one. It seems that he is not sure what he wants. So he keeps both his wife and you on a string. As long as your are available to him in any fashion he does not need to address his marriage. He can use your very existance as threat to hang over his wife's head.<P>"He tells me that reconciliation with his wife is impossible. I ask, 'are you sure?' He tells me she's unbearable to be around and entirely unreasonable"<P>I bet she is impossible to be around. Who would not be under these circumstances.<P>I know that there are as many different circumstances as there are people. I know that there are marital situations in which one cannot continue. I am in my third marriage right now and feel that both of my divorces were under totally justified circumstances. In both cases even my priest told me that I really had not choice. <P>It is totally possible that your MM's wife is a terrible shrew or worse. It is possible that their's is a situation from which me must escape. So if that is the case, why doesn't he? What I have found in life is that people do what they WANT TO DO. Always look at a person's actions and do not let their words cloud your view. Your MM is staying with his wife because he wants to stay. He keeps you on the side because he wants to. And you make all of this possible by accepting him when he contancts you.<P>What I have a problem with is when a spouse drags the nother through the agony of uncertainty. You have no clue what this man is telling his wife.... only what he tells you.<P>Sorry, I feel no sympathy for your situation.<P>Z<P><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

All I can say is that I wish my H had told me our marriage was over before he cried on her shoulder and jumped into bed with her!<P>The "truths" between a WS and the OP are often manipulated and quite twisted in order to justify their actions.<P>The OW tried to "counsel" my H as well, tried to "help" him through his troubled times (sheesh - feeling nauseous now). I suppose that made her feel better even though he was still a very married man and father of two innocent young children<BR>when she met with him, slept with him and then decided they had fallen deeply in love. The kicker is, even tho she tried to help him, she knew he had never ever spoken a single word to me about his personal discontent. He distanced himself more and more from me, which made me angry, which in turn made him angry and turn to her even more. She knew, when they met, when they "made love" that he had not even given me any choice. She knew I was completely in the dark, she knew I trusted him completely, she knew he hadn't even tried to sort things out with me.<P>I agree with Ernie - the only time the OP is not guilty is when they have no idea of the marital status of the person, otherwise, forget it. <P>You done wrong Babe, face the facts.

My personal beliefs are that each of us owes it to the rest of the world to do as little harm as possible. I believe that to be one of the basic foundations of most religions and legal systems. So I do not think I am unique in those beliefs.<P>When a person enters into a relationship with a married person, they are breaking that rule. They are deliberatly harming the BS and any children involved. I know that almost all of the OP's here say that they were not doing anything to the BS. I just do not buy that argument.<P>If I want to get across an intersection, and do it by running over everyone in the cross walk, would you accept the argument that since my goal was to get across the intersection I did not deliberately harm those in the crosswalk? Were they just colateral? Nope....<P>The OP and the WS are stealing from the BS. Pure and simple. In different times, the BS could sue the OP and WS for this. I wish that that option was still available in all states.<P>Remember when your darling MM is with you, he is neglecting his marriage, his wife, his children, his home and on and on. How can even be involved with someone who is being that hurtful to his family and wife? I just don't get it. Even when only his thoughts and feelings are with you this theft is going on.<P>You say you help him with is marriage by advising him??? That is like the chicken thief advising the farmer on what locks to install on the chicken coop. As I told one of my husband's other women when she wante to "help" us repair our marriage becaus he cared so much for him (barf) and thought I was such a wonderful person (barf again). I see no benefit our relationship could realize from her continued involvement in our marriage. She had already done far more harm then she could ever repair.<P>So does the OP owe the BS anything? You better believe she/he does. They owe the BS anything possible to mitigate the harm they have done to the marriage. And that usually means having no more contact with the MM/MW until the marriage is officially ended, until all the divorce documents are signed.<P>"Now all three of us can only do the best we can to cause the least damage." <P>What does this mean? What damage has the his wife done to you? Get it through your head... you and her husband are the ones causing the damage. I know that you do not see it like that but that's your fog.<P>Yes it is true that there were problems in the marriage before you came along... that goes without saying. All marriages have problems. But your involment with the MM escalated the problems. I know that you don't see it that way. From what you have written here you almost see yourself as the victum. The only person here victumizing you is you. Even the MM is not victimizing you because you know the score.<P>And no, if I knew you I would not like you. You may be fun and all, but I look much deeper into a person. Even Jeffery Daumer was said to be "nice". We are all, in reality, only as good as the worst part of us.<P>Do I seem harsh here? You bet I am. I've seen so may people hurt in my life by this type of crap. So many children who's lives have been torn apart that I can no longer tollerate it. My life and my children's lifes are included in this. I can not longer just sit on the side and say nothing.<P>I am very curious as to why you posted here. Why are you even on this board. To attack those of us who are trying to repair our marriages? Is your MM's wife on this board, are you here to harrass her? Are you here to make yourself feel better by pointing out to all of the BS here that we are mean hearted and closed minded to the poor, innocent OP?<P>Z<P><BR>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare<p>[This message has been edited by zorweb (edited June 06, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Her:<BR><B>I have never made any attempt to contact him at home or to disrupt his home life any more than our relationship already has. It is he who continues to reopen lines of communication and I who continually hesitate to give him words of love or encouragement because I don't want to pull him in my direction as long as he believes this promise is necessary. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Your very EXISTENCE is what is keeping him from working on his marriage. If YOU weren't around, he might try. We'll never know, will we, if he can find it in himself to try, because YOU are ALWAYS there. You keep "answering" his communications. You don't STOP all communication...you only hesitate. We already know he is weak...you are actually playing into his weaknesses and pretending like you're not....pretending like you have "nothing to do with it." <P>Lady, that's a bunch of bullsh*t!<P>And, by the way, the marriage isn't over until they are divorced....no matter how many words you put in "quotes"....it's still a marriage and in some states you can be held legally responsible for breaking it up, regardless of how many problems there were. Regardless of how dead it was. Regardless of how over it was. <P>It's not over until it's over. And that, my dear, is what you don't get. <P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<P><BR>

What I don't get is why YOU, an OW, would even be on a marriage BUILDERS site.... They have a site just for you called "The Other Woman." Go there for sympathy or whatever you are looking for.

So you don't think you are in any way responsible for the demise of the marriage irregardless of what state is was in 'before' you got involved?<P>Well, let's use that 'logic' and see whether you are in the fog or not....... The scene is at a family's home. You are viewing the Murder of a marriage. The parties are H, W, children (3 - any age, let's say 3, 5 & 8 - 2 boys and 1 girl), OW and OW's H. There could be more like OW's children but that is for the next sequel.....<P>Scene opens: D/d - W finds out about A. H confesses says marriage was/is over. (background: H & OW have been EA for 5 months/PA for 3 months). H says too many problems, won't discuss. Says he has found the right lover. W is confused, angry, hurt and in shock. H (major conflict avoider graduate) leaves. H moves out in 2 weeks. Children are confused start to ask a lot of questions. W can't answer correctly (still in shock), H won't face family. <P><BR>Cut over to scene 2 in process: D/d: H informs OW that W knows of A. OW is jumping for joy, yet she sees the tears in H's face and attempts to show compassion. OW even tells H to go back to W and work it out. As she says that, OW tempers it by saying, 'you know it won't work out, but please try.' It is a struggle for her, OW almost can't hold back her laughter. She stutters a bit, H thinks she really means it, go back to W. So under this 'false pretense' as setup by OW, H goes back to his family. <P>Ah.... the murder plot thickens. Who is the killer, who is the victim(s)? Is there an accomplice? <P>Scene 3: H says he has come home. H continues contact with OW. OW is now willing to see H any which way she can. Doing the dirty deed all over town in many locations. Been even spotted by owls (short for: OW legal spies)!!!!! Is H really home? Physically at night, but the charade can't continue for long. H is getting plain ol' tired. 2 women at at once. If he keeps this up, he may shrink up and die. H is in turmoil but 2 women are 'happy'. Then the killing begins. <P>Scene 4: OW now has her hook firmly planted in H. H can't live without OW. Has to see and talk to her daily. W is beginning to notice signs of fatigue and an increasing temper with H. Why? W and children are trying hard and doing a good plan A. <P>Commercial: W found MB.com. Read Basic Concepts. Read all books, Hn/Hn, Surviving an Affair, Givers/Takers, etc.<BR>Had phone counseling session with Jennifer Harley. W posted 1st to the JFO site, then moved on to GQII. W is a daily poster and now considered a 'member'.<P>Scene 5: After 1 week, H confesses he can't keep up the charade. Tells W he must move out, needs to think and be on his own. W concedes. Children are again confused. <P>Repeat Scenes 2, 3, 4 & 5. Do this 3 more times. <P>Commercial: W regular poster at MB.com now checks out the d/d site. Wonders if she belongs here. Plan A or B? Is W being disloyal if she goes to plan B? Finances are tight. In jeporady of losing the homestead. W gets a lot of support. W meets with Jennifer again. W's resolve is strenghten and now can face H and his situation with greater conviction. <P>Scene 17 (continued on a separate thread)....... <P>Critics review and comments to this OW will be posted on a separate thread......<P>L.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Orchid (edited June 07, 2001).]

YOU WROTE, "...he asked her for a divorce before anything serious ever happened between the two of us"<BR>Yeah, I just bet you did! You probably held that OVER his head to get him to agree to start divorce proceedings!<P>YOU WROTE: "She has known of my existence all along." <BR>Yes, I knew of the existence of the OW in my husband's life. He TOLD ME every time she called his hotel room when he was on the road...he TOLD ME he rebuffed her calls. I believe him!<BR>YOU WROTE: "I have never made any attempt to contact him at home or to disrupt his home life... It is he who continues to reopen lines of communication and I who continually hesitate ..."<BR>This is simply NOT SO in my case! The OW WAS CALLING MY HOUSE while I was at work and my husband was home working on the house...SHE PURSUED HIM right up until he went to see her. Then her "feminine wiles" went to work. God only knows what she said then..."Leave her or I'll tell her what you've done..." I can only imagine.<P>YOU WROTE: "Trust me, I'm not going through this misery for a roll in the hay. This is no dalliance, no ego trip."<BR>WHAT THEN??? The "emotional closeness" with someone...ANYONE??? Trust ME - LOTS of your kind of women ARE "going through this misery" for a roll in the hay. A married man is more stable, settled than a guy you might meet in a bar. Plus, if statistics are true, you knew him from before (also true in my case) and felt something, NOT as easy to do when you pick up a total stranger in a bar or elsewhere and then have to start from the beginning to achieve emotional closeness. MUCH more work.<P>YOU WROTE: "...there are as many different situations as there are people." While I agree that is true, I think for the most part, the OW HAS made a difference in a husband staying and trying to "work it out" and taking the (so-called) easy way out and just running into the arms of a waiting lover, with thoughts, implications, or maybe outright statements of how much "better" life will be once the wife "gets over it."<P>YOU WROTE: "I have a great deal of respect and compassion for his wife..." NO YOU DON'T or you would have sent him packing BACK HOME and NEVER spoken to him again.<P>PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION. Quit justifying your behavior, it won't help your conscience feel better.<BR>Know this: 95% of illicit affairs END eventually. This "we found love..." attitude you have now will statistically NOT WORK OUT and what will you think of yourself then? You are probably going to FAIL at this relationship, based on statistics, and you will feel much worse about that in the long haul than you are feeling now, by trying to rationalize what is happening. As someone earlier mentioned, you too, are in a "fog" and it is clouding your ability to think clearly. If you were (WHEN you were) on OUR side of the fence, I'm sure you didn't think the way you are now. <BR>Either way, the pain doesn't change, and many lives have been derailed through this tragedy. Truly a tragedy.<BR>Lupo

YOU WROTE, "...he asked her for a divorce before anything serious ever happened between the two of us"<BR>Yeah, I just bet you did! You probably held that OVER his head to get him to agree to start divorce proceedings!<P>YOU WROTE: "She has known of my existence all along." <BR>Yes, I knew of the existence of the OW in my husband's life. He TOLD ME every time she called his hotel room when he was on the road...he TOLD ME he rebuffed her calls. I believe him!<BR>YOU WROTE: "I have never made any attempt to contact him at home or to disrupt his home life... It is he who continues to reopen lines of communication and I who continually hesitate ..."<BR>This is simply NOT SO in my case! The OW WAS CALLING MY HOUSE while I was at work and my husband was home working on the house...SHE PURSUED HIM right up until he went to see her. Then her "feminine wiles" went to work. God only knows what she said then..."Leave her or I'll tell her what you've done..." I can only imagine.<P>YOU WROTE: "Trust me, I'm not going through this misery for a roll in the hay. This is no dalliance, no ego trip."<BR>WHAT THEN??? The "emotional closeness" with someone...ANYONE??? Trust ME - LOTS of your kind of women ARE "going through this misery" for a roll in the hay. A married man is more stable, settled than a guy you might meet in a bar. Plus, if statistics are true, you knew him from before (also true in my case) and felt something, NOT as easy to do when you pick up a total stranger in a bar or elsewhere and then have to start from the beginning to achieve emotional closeness. MUCH more work.<P>YOU WROTE: "...there are as many different situations as there are people." While I agree that is true, I think for the most part, the OW HAS made a difference in a husband staying and trying to "work it out" and taking the (so-called) easy way out and just running into the arms of a waiting lover, with thoughts, implications, or maybe outright statements of how much "better" life will be once the wife "gets over it."<P>YOU WROTE: "I have a great deal of respect and compassion for his wife..." NO YOU DON'T or you would have sent him packing BACK HOME and NEVER spoken to him again.<P>PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION. Quit justifying your behavior, it won't help your conscience feel better.<BR>Know this: 95% of illicit affairs END eventually. This "we found love..." attitude you have now will statistically NOT WORK OUT and what will you think of yourself then? You are probably going to FAIL at this relationship, based on statistics, and you will feel much worse about that in the long haul than you are feeling now, by trying to rationalize what is happening. As someone earlier mentioned, you too, are in a "fog" and it is clouding your ability to think clearly. If you were (WHEN you were) on OUR side of the fence, I'm sure you didn't think the way you are now. <BR>Either way, the pain doesn't change, and many lives have been derailed through this tragedy. Truly a tragedy.<BR>Lupo