D-Day was June 29, 1998. A long, long story, in a nutshell, OW and her H are friends of ours. OW's H does not know of affair. My H did not want to tell the OW's H about affair, I agreed, why put him through what we're going through? It's up to the OW to come clean with her H. The A between OW and my H ended on d-day....or so I think. <P>The problem is, OW works for us, it's hard to find a replacement for her position as manager. BUT, she STILL works for us, so there is daily contact. My H knows how this hurts and upsets me. We still see them "socially", H says if we broke off all contact suddenly, then the OW's H would wonder why. I have been after my H to get rid of her, break all contact ect...to no avail. He says she is only a friend, and that he isn't one to just "dump" his friends. I think my H is still in "the fog", and is still emotionally attached to her.<P>I have been plan A'ing for 2 years now, trying to meet his EN, being understanding and undemanding about the situation. Gritting my teeth when we see the OW socially ect.. I have reached my wits end. H does not believe in MC, he does not want to give up contact, he does not want to find a replacement for her at our business. He says they're only friends, couldn't love another ect. I have not seen a counselor, I am not on medication for depression, which I should be I suppose, as I am majorly depressed about it all. <P>H turns the situation around making me look like a fool for demanding no contact. He thinks that I over-react, and since they're "just friends", I should take his word that everything is fine. I admit there are no signs of the A continuing, he is being a model H for the most part. However, I DO NOT WANT HER IN MY LIFE ANY LONGER. H doesn't understand this.<P>After some major fit-throwing on my part, I told H he needed to get her out of my life or I would have to take drastic measures. I told him if she wasn't gone soon, I'd have a major problem in staying in this marriage. He responds..."don't threaten me, I don't like ultimatums". <P>HOW am I to react to this? He refuses to compromise, he refuses to see how his association with the OW hurts me unbearably. WHEN is it time for plan B? 2 years of this is quite enough for me thank you. <P>Other than the fact that he still sees the OW regularly, because of "friendship and business matters", our marriage is getting a little better (other issues are involved besides the A) I told him he needs to replace her this year, and get her TOTALLY out of our lives, or I'll implement plan B...... I feel like a shrew! How and WHEN should I tell him enough is enough?<P>Needing some MAJOR help here,<P>Cyn

Two years is too too too long for Plan A.<P>The idea of Plan A is to use it as a period in which your husband stops all contact with the OW and the two of you put the MB rules into affect in your relationship. This has never happened. You have not really been in plan A. You’ve been in some other plan where your WH gets his cake and eats it too. He has two women meeting his emotional needs for the last 2 years. My he must feel like quite the man!!!<BR>I have more of a tough love approach and believe very strongly in a very strict Plan A/B approach. I’d give my WH a choice:<BR>He can choose Plan A if he does the following:<BR>If it were my life this is what I’d do:<BR>Tell my H to replace the OW with someone you can both be comfortable with. Come on, it is not that hard to find a good manager.<BR>Drop the OW and her H as friends. Give the OW’s husband a copy of the “Surviving An Affair” and tell him about he affair. Give him the respect of letting him know what is going on in his life.<P>Start implementing the MB philosophies and get marriage counseling and/or coaching.<P>Or he can choose Plan B by not doing these things. If he chooses Plan B then still tell the OW’s H about the affair and give her a copy of the book.<P>You are making very reasonable requests of your husband. Please do not let him make you feel like you are a shrew. Tell him that he may not like ultimatums but you do not like being treated like sh…, like you are a non-person. So you are not giving him ultimatums, you are giving him choices. Which is more then he and the OW are giving you.<P>And of course, do this with the utmost grace and civility. You are his wife and a lady.<P>I’m with you babe,<BR>The above is, of course, my own very humble opinion<P>Z<BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Thanks for your input Z.<P>I agree with all that you say, but my agreement, and my H's are two different things! He doesn't understand why there should be no contact, and it's hard to make him see how this hurts me. <P>Generally he makes me feel like the bad guy here. He says that everything I ask is really a demand and ultimatum. I need some definite things from my marriage, ie...support with household responsibilities, children...NO CONTACT. He sees these things as demands. He is feeling really put out that I'm not "satisfied" with him, and he feels I'm too demanding. That I will never be satisfied with him, so why should he try and put forth the effort?<P>I've also told him that I can't live this way indefinately, and that changes need to be made...he feels hurt and wounded that I would consider a separation if the OW isn't out of my life soon. He feels I'm not committed to the relationship if I would leave him over this. MAJOR guilt trip here. These guilt trips are the reason I haven't insisted before now that he end all contact with her. But I have reached the end of my tolerance rope. I can not go forward with my recovery in this situation.<P>Anyway, I'm just venting here, I appreciate all that come to this forum for the support. Another thing my H doesn't understand...discussing family problems with strangers <BR>I'm just tired of feeling like I'm wrong in my feelings, I need some support from others in this situation to know that I'm not the only one out here with a H that doesn't understand.<P>Thanks for your feedback,<P>Cyn

Zorweb, with all due respect, I think you need to do a little research on this site in regards to Plan A and Plan B. This is the second post of yours today I’ve seen where you got it wrong. I think lostva took care of the first <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The idea of Plan A is to use it as a period in which your husband stops all contact with the OW and the two of you put the MB rules into affect in your relationship. This has never happened. You have not really been in plan A. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Plan A is implemented by the BS while the WS is still embroiled in the affair. Its purpose is to show the WS that they recognize their part in the deterioration of the marriage (Note while the decision to have the affair is 100% that of the WS, the responsibility for the state of the marriage must be borne by both parties). You eliminate Lovebusters and meet any Emotional Needs the WS will allow. You change <I>yourself</I> for the better, and show the WS by deeds that your marriage is once again a safe place for them to return once the affair is over.<P>The concepts of continuing to meet Emotional Needs and avoiding LoveBusters are continued after the affair is terminated, but that’s just Marriage Maintenance (and something we <B>all</B> should have done long ago), not the Plans for affair recovery. I think that might be where the confusion comes in, since they utilize the same tools.<P>Not to toot my own horn (OK; maybe just a bit ) but I made <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/007220.html" TARGET=_blank>a post</A> a while back that IMO will give you the gist of the differences in the Plans.<P>LilHick, IMO your H is still in, at the very least, an “inappropriate emotional attachment,” if not an outright affair. All the justifications he gives are those WS’s have given in time immemorial to justify their continued inappropriate contact. I used them all in my affair. Bottom line... you can’t really even <B>begin</B> to heal while she is still in your lives. If you’ve been doing a good Plan A, then you set a good foundation for Plan B, should that be necessary.<P><BR>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die<p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited June 11, 2001).]

LilHick,<P>You said: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> 've also told him that I can't live this way indefinately, and that changes need to be made...he feels hurt and wounded that I would consider a separation if the OW isn't out of my life soon.<B> He feels I'm not committed to the relationship if I would leave him over this.</B> MAJOR guilt trip here. These guilt trips are the reason I haven't insisted before now that he end all contact with her. But I have reached the end of my tolerance rope. I can not go forward with my recovery in this situation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I put the really important part in bold. Your H is right and I believe you should completely agree with him. You are not committed to a marriage where there is another party coming between the two of you. She is coming between the two of you and his defense of her shows it. You might also point out that if you go to Plan B, her H will suspect. Indeed, I suspect he is trying to cover his cheeks and hers as well. <P>So agree with him and then tell him the no one in their right minds can be "just" friends with someone they slept and cheated with.<P>You may well need to move to Plan B.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

I am so sorry to hear the pain your husband is putting you through ....I would tell her husband ...I really dont see how you are saving this man any pain by living a lie ...he eventually will find out and will feel like a fool knowing that you all knew. ..how bold is this women to think that she can continue working for you and your husband. However my response may not be what is the correct thing to do...but I feel when will people start being held accountable for their hurtful actions!!!<BR>Falula

Oh my! You are obviously very committed to this relationship because it appears as though you are willing to go above and beyond the call of duty to meet your H's EN. The bottom line is that it has to be a two way street. It does not appear that he has made any effort to work things out with your marriage. It also appears that he feels vindicated because you know of OW and he appears to think that it is "done". I am the last to say go to plan B, but if H has made no sacrifices, and I suspect he is still quite involved if even just emotionally with OW, you must be strong and take more action.<BR>I will pray for him to see the light and I am so sorry for your struggle.