My H left a couple weeks ago...he really only sleeps at the 'spot.' comes over most nights for dinner and helps put boys to bed.<P>We did the 4th together as a family...have gone to beach twice and did church as a family on Sunday....<P>But when he is not here, the boys (8, 5 & 2) lose their minds...middle son especially...HUGE, out of control tantrums...<P>I have worked so hard for 3 months...dealt with A in my face while he still lived here for the last 3 months...plan A'ing my butt off, counseling, reading changing...<P>I AM TIRED...I AM BURNT...I am thinking of telling him...the heck with you leaving....you stay here with boys and I am going to 'leave' for a couple of days....<P>Cali

Cali,<P>Hi, I sent out the email to the one's I have and I'll post in Recovery and Emotional Needs for people to meet us here.<P>Right now I have to run the kids to the pool. They've been in the house all day and need the exercise. So do I.<P>Then I'll check in on you when I get back.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Don't know where everyone else is.. maybe they will join us here...<P>Are you saying that you are ready for Plan B? <P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28

Gawd... I must have written 20 messages like this as "new_beginning" with my ex-H. I remember the feeling well... which is scary, in itself. <P>This stuff is serious business!!<P>Is your H still as angry as he was for awhile?

I am sorry you are burnt out. You need some time to yourself, rest and relaxation, eh? Could you go ahead and negotiate time to yourself with your husband? It sounds like a really good idea. It would give you the break you need and him a taste of all it entails. <P>{{{Cali}}}<P>

Cali,<P>I know what you are going through. I have 2 boys and they are older, 10&12, but boys can be hard when you have them alone. My H travels, he is gone all this week, and sometimes you just want to pull your hair out. Especially when they are younger and need so much from you. <P>Part of Plan A is working on yourself, isn't it? You do need time to be alone. You should try to get your H to watch the kids for a while so you can get out. Go shopping, have dinner with friends, go get your hair and nails done, go to a movie, something so you can recharge and regroup. It is very important to take time for yourself. <P>Keep strong, you have worked so hard up until now. Keep your chin up. I'll be praying for you.<P>R3

Cali...{{{HUGGGZZZZ}}}<P>I think you are entitled to that time, but I don't think that H is going to allow you to negotiate it. It sounds like he has the best of both worlds...hes there for the fun stuff and when he doesn't want to be, he disappears and goes to do what he wants to do. Again, not real fair and from what I have seen, the BS is the one that seems to bear the brunt of family responsibilities in most of these situations. I think one of the reasons so many BS reach the wall is from this...BS not helping out at home. They may feel bad about the A, and even remorseful, but the burdens of carrying all the emotions in recovery and family life are falling on BS, while the WS *find out what they want*.<P>Cali, is there any way Parents can help out? Is there a way to just tell H *It's your turn!* and have him take the kids, especially older one, so he can understand the volatile nature of what is happening at home? I can understand your need for a break, even if for a day or two, and it makes you even more resentful of H when you are in recovery when this happens. Any friends that can help? Im sorry, I am just throwing out ideas for you and hoping one or two will stick and you can re-energize. Keep the faith...even if only in yourself for the time being!!<P>Trueheart

This could actually be a good idea...give WH a taste of what is going on in the "real world" while he's residing in the "land of the lotus people"....a "this is what divorce will be like" scenerio....could be a wake up call.<P>He'd probably balk however, since it might interfere with plans of OW...this is one thing that use to make me so mad...OW always thought she came before family...so she put time limits on all family activities attended by WH....big mistake.<P>As for the "burn-out", I think you definitely need to take time out and recoop and this seems like a good time...you've Plan A'd your b*** off and WH still left to "do his thing"....well, time he learned that no one walks away free. Go for it.<P>Faye

This is very sad. Will you be able to last until the end of the month when you'll get some time without kids?<P>I was going to post a comment along these same line to your thread about leaving the forum. You seemed to be looking for one last thing to try before Plan B.<P>You have an agreement with your H about no kids when shopping. Can you just start taking more frequent, longer (shopping) trips to get more of a break? You could also try to plan them for the times of day that are hardest :-}.<P>-<BR>You didn't just want any Coke. You wanted one from the machine at your favorite beach! <BR>-<P>You seem to already be trying lot's of stuff, this is a toughie. Especially with GQII down. <P>--Jeffers<BR>

Oh man....thought I had gone into a trance and posted without knowing it.<BR>I hear ya!!!<P>My H has been gone for 8 days.....I feel the same way.<P>Why is he getting to have everything his way and I'm stuck here to take care of everything that we should be shouldering together. Why does he get to go wherever he wants without worrying about who is going to take care of the girls...and I can't even go to the bathroom by myself because the girls don't know if I'll come back out or not??<BR>It's not fair.......I didn't sign on for this.....it was not my decision.<BR>He made this decision for me......and that's just not fair.<BR>Where does it say that they have a right to make this family....build memories.......and then just throw it all away when they decide they can't hack it anymore?<P>I won't get any answers to any of those quetions...I know....but it sure feels good to get them out.<P>I know....in my heart....that I'm the stronger person...but it's hard to take all this on.....I didn't start it by myself and certainly didn't think I'd be left to take care of it by myself.<P>

Cali,<P>You need the time to yourself so take it. Have you arranged for him to care for the children? Is there some really fun, nurturing place you can go to? Perhaps you can have a good friend go with you.<P>As for your son's behavior, the poor child must be going through an awful lot. The children always suffer the most.<P>I want to share my experience with my son’s tantrums with you. I hope you can get something out of this. Boy do I know what that's like. Until my son was about 7 I went through that with him. <P>He was acting out because of the yelling/fighting etc between XH and I. He was picking up his father's belligerent behavior. My son used to hit me all the time. I remember telling him that he could not do that and his response was “Why not, daddy does.” Boy did that knock me for a loop. I looked the little guy in the eye and said, “Yes, your father behaves very badly in this house. And I am leaving him because he refuses to address it. So if you want me to leave you too, keep it up bud. I will not live with someone who abuses me.” It was the last time he hit me.<P>Another one of his behaviors was to kick walls, slam doors, and throw things and yell. Another one he learned from good old dad. His tantrums were horrid. I found an 800 number for boys’ town hot line. I remember calling them when he really got bad. It was a wonderful support. They actually coached me on how to handle the tantrums in real time. They talked me down so that I could handle him calmly and told me what to do. The goal when he was smaller was for me to help him calm down. They told me to restrain him by my sitting down. Then I was to wrap my arms and legs around him, holding him close, and rock him, say soothing things until he calmed down. It really worked well.<P>When he got too big for me to do this (he’s big for his age) I was able to draw on the experience we’d had of calming him down. At that point the suggested that I not engage physically with him. Instead they told me to drag him, by the cuff of his pants, to the middle of whatever room he was in. This was to prevent him from hurting himself or breaking things in the room. Then I was to calmly tell him; “Your behavior is inappropriate. It is your responsibility to calm yourself down. Once you do and you feel better. You can come join me. I’ll be in my bedroom reading.” Then I’d go to my room and close the door. Remember, a tantrum is totally useless without an audience. When I first started doing this he’d stop his tantrum, follow me to whatever room I was in, dramatically throw himself on the floor and start the screaming again. That’s why I started to close and lock my door. Without an audience a tantrum dies down much quicker.<P>In between the tantrums I spent a lot of time discussing this with him. His feeling, what was going on with his dad and I, what it meant to him. He is very bright and could discus this stuff at an early age. The problem continued until about 6 months after I separated from his dad. Then suddenly the tantrums stopped. Our home was a peaceful one with out his father around. <P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

HMMM....I am thinking of starting an MB resort for BS!! Think the Harleys would mind? I will make it a retreat, complete with 24/7 kids care and child dorms with puter games, movie theatre and WS to take care of children for minimum three days, maximum 10!! BS will partake in self esteem baths, daily rubdowns, and an occasional *Happy Hour* with free venting sessions. There will be suites with whirlpools baths, no dishes, no phones, no interruptions. <BR>I will call it The Get Even Respite Retreat (aka WS learning experience...hehe!!) The Harleys will have, of course, lifetime passes and can stop by and teach anytime they want to, and their videobooks will be available in the library for all to peruse at their leisure. There will be a one hour sharing time each morning and each evening for BS to share their stories and successes. Other than that, no shop talk....its a vacation!!<P>Ok....a guy can dream can't he? Now, take a deep breath, close your eyes, and visualize the spot you wanna be in right now!! Go there, for five minutes!! (kinda like Fantasy Island without Tatoo!!) Keep the faith gang!!<P>Trueheart

Dear Cali,<BR>Understandably you are at the end of your rope. You've gotta tie a knot and hang on, woman! Your boys need you to be strong. Being strong means we have to admit our weaknesses and allow God and others to help us!<P>Listen to this,<BR>"It was so bad, we didn't think we were going to make it. We felt like we'd been sent to death row, that it was all over for us. As it turned out, it was the best thing that could have happened. Instead of trusting in our own strength or wits to get out of it, we were forced to trust God totally--not a bad idea since He's the God who raises the dead! And He did it, rescued us from certain doom. And He'll do it again, rescuing us as many times as we need rescuing." (2 Cor. 1:9-10 The Message)<P>On top of everything that you are dealing with in your relationship, the kids are going crazy. I have a daughter with precocious puberty, which means her estrogen is almost at adult level and she is only in 1st grade. It also means she has severe mood swings that we have to endure. The thought of choking her has crossed my mind especially when I'm feeling extremely tired, but it only passes through for a brief moment. As parents, we get so preoccupied and overwhelmed with our own stuff that oftentimes we forget our little ones are experiencing stress in their own worlds!<P>You are carrying around too much weight on your shoulders. We are not equipped to carry so much. We HAVE to ask God for help (cast our cares) and sometimes it means asking people around us for help even when we think we are imposing. We can't deal with life's problems alone! WE NEED HELP! Don't be afraid to ask and don't think that mom has to have everything under control at all times. Parenthood just doesn't work that way, whether we're married or single parents.<P>Tie a knot at the end of your rope, trust God, and hang on!!!!!!!!! His help is on the way! Angels are working on your behalf.

cali,<BR>I can only imagine the hurt you are going through. if these kinds words can reach your heart, I would pray that they will. I don't understand what has transpired from the night you two had your "talk", and now. Is your H sitting on the fence? Is he still with the OW? I can't imagine why after the crap she has dealt. I know this "waiting" game is just junk, and the awful days creep by. All I can say is Plan A. The fog is thick around OW, and he has got to see she is not perfect. You hurt, you hurt, you hurt. Have you talked to Dr. Harley? I know you have been through alot of trying times with this thing, especially MB attack from that OW. She is rotten. Why are people so mean? Just keep working on yourself, and talk to us, when you need to vent. hugs, aftershock

Thanks!!!!<P>I had a good night's sleep...feel better today...<BR>I did not leave...can't do that to the kids...having two parents leave just wouldn't be good...<P>But, I think I will go to the mudbaths tomorrow...I think H will stay with kids, or I have a friend or two I can ask...<P>I talked with middle son this am...he is angry at dad...but still had a big tantrum about an hour later...I just restrained him until he calmed down...<P>H's parents have come by today to give support...they are a big strength...<P>Cali<BR>

Cali, that is wonderful, I am glad you have decided not to leave and that you can take advantage of a mudbath tomorrow... That sounds interesting, I've never had one before.<P>Cali dear, I KNOW what you mean. I did plan B for a month with my H COMPLETELY gone!! He has had the kids for a total of 10 hours in close to 6 weeks now. 3 Kids!! (6,2,1) I have a babysitter that watches the kids while I work, but other than that - it's just me baby. Shopping, bathing, diapers, dump, you name it, they're with me.<P>I try not to complain though, I like spending time with the kids and getting closer to OD... But SOMETIMES, OMG, it just gets SO bad. So overwhelming.<P>Just know that others are going through it as well. Take the mudbath, get H to watch the kids and GET OUT. <P>LOL,<BR>HbH<P>

I thought you'd get a kick out of this, I just told OD:<P>"Stop bugging me, mommy just needs 5 minutes for herself sometimes."<P>6-year old response:<P>"No you don't. You ALWAYS get enough time for yourself."<P><sigh>...

Hi Cali,<P>Hope it's all going ok. That mud bath sounds wonderfull. <P>Just checking in on you.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Doing much better.<P>MIL came over today to talk with me and be with kids for a while...we had a nice talk.<P>I'm sitting here watching H sit with kids, 2 yr old on his lap, 5 yr. old next to him and 7 1/2 yr old next to him watching a Pokemon movie....<P>The boys look so content....THIS IS WHAT I HAD A FAMILY FOR!<P>You all take care,<P>Cali

Hi there,<BR> So sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you. I gave up trying to get into GQII yesterday and worked all day today. I did see your post about wanting to get away for a few days.<P>Cali, go. Get away all by yourself for 3-4 days. Your kids will be absolutely FINE without you for just a few days. I did this about a month after d-day at the recommendation of my counselor. I went to Big Bear for 4 days. I took lots of books,rented movies,walked around all the shops,took a few hikes,swam in the pool. A friend set me up in her timeshare. H took 2 days off work and got help from my mom the other days he was working. The kids were fine, I talked to them every night. It's no big deal and something every mom should do every once in awhile anyway. You need it, especially now. It will reinforce to H how independent you are and that you are serious about taking care of yourself and that you won't tolerate the indecision indefinitely. It'll make him wonder what you are thinking and will give you time to rest and relax and feel stronger and think yourself. It also gives H a chance to experience what having the kids 24/7 is all about. He needs to know what it's like if he's continuing to refuse to recommit, as he just might get to have them 3-4 days at a time if he choses to be a divorced dad. Interjecting reality into the fantasy in a justified manner can work wonders. My H was shocked at all I had to do when he had to do it all by himself for a few days.....and the kids were FINE! If you are to be their rock you need to give yourself a break and take care of yourself.<P>I understand that you want to impart to H the new and changed you and that you want him to see that things can be different and that you are willing to go all out to do your part. That is what Plan A is all about and I do recommend that you do this......but not for long, or you risk sending a different message than the one you think you are sending.<BR>I think it gets very risky continuing in Plan A when WS is bold enough to admit that they see your changes and actually appreciate and are attracted to those changes yet those acknowledged changes have absolutely no effect on WS behavior. The objective in Plan A is for you to work on being a better you (you've done that), for WS to see you can change for the better (he's seen AND acknowledged that), and for WS to see that you are a safe place to come back to ( IMHO he's seen that too because he's acknowledged your changes and efforts). When you have accomplished those objectives and it's getting you no where and you are becoming frazzled and are emotionally a wreck (who isn't at a time like this)then IMHO it's time to do something different. If you continue in Plan A for too long H starts to get the idea that you will remain a safe place to come back to no matter how long he continues his BS and no matter what crumbs he throws out to keep you hanging on. There is no dignity in that for you and it sets up a situation that is confusing and unhealthy for your children who are looking very closely at what is going on and are being affected by it more than we adults ever realize. <P>The most effective thing I did to get my H back to the point of wanting to recommit was to be strong and stand up for my self dignity. I told him how much I loved him, that I was willing to change and showed him that.I offered my support in his decision to separate but told him I didn't have to like it and that I would not wait more than 3-4 months for him to make up his mind before getting on with my life without him. I emotionally could not handle limboland. I came to grips with the fact that if he didn't want to be here then my life wasn't going to be what I wanted it to be if he stayed out of guilt or obligation. In that kind of condition we would have both been miserable and so would have the kids. I had to start planning for the possibility that he would chose to divorce. I figured the sooner I mentally and emotionally and physically prepared myself for that possibility the better off I would be if it actually happened, afterall, he was giving no guarantees.<P>It is not reasonable nor is it realistic for WS to expect to continue to emotionally abuse ( an affair is most definitely emotional abuse) their spouse and not have that spouse take measures to protect themselves (Plan B). As a BS failing to do so sets you up as a doormat, crushes your already damaged self esteem, and causes WS to lose respect for you. It is strength that is attractive. It is the uncertainty of a strong and independent spouse that causes WS to reevaluate whether ot not he is making the right choice in leaving. If there is no consequence to WS's behavior there is absolutely no motivation to change it,especially when it is providing novelty and excitement. However, in reality, novelty and excitement are temporary and worse yet, evaporative. Your love and understanding and strength are solid and reliable. There is no comparison or substitute for your legitimate history with your H. The lie of an affair cannot stand up to what is good and right and true. He's saying he doesn't want to be married so I say act "as if" you are divorced, without breaking your marriage vows. In that way you are complying and giving H what HE is asking for.....a chance to find out what it is really like to be an unmarried man with 3 kids. He gets what he asked for and you have the opportunity to prepare yourself for life without him if in the end he choses that. It is a win/win situation once the objectives of Plan A have been achieved and better still, puts YOU in the driver's seat. <BR>