Plan A just failed. I thought it was working and found out through my own investigating that it didn't work. My wife is travelling for work and I found out that, even though she still denies it, he's travelling with her. It's time for Plan B. Calling is one click of a button away. I'm looking for encouragement and strength in not contacting her. Thanks fellow BS's.

mike:<P>Plan A, if done "effectively", never fails. You may not end the affair, you may still end up in Plan B, and you may even eventually get divorced---but Plan A will have the effect of making you successful, by teaching you new marital behaviors and skills.<P>Hey---I did 5 months of Plan A before I went to plan B---I though I failed too. But I didn't---and after we reconciled, I discovered just how effective (and critical) my Plan A work was to saving my marriage.<P>How long have you been in Plan A? How long has the affair been going? How long have you known?

Thanks. It feels like it failed. <P>It was about four weeks of plan A. I was pretty sure about the affair for about three months (which probably means it was longer) but it was completely exposed in the last month. She finally agreed to conselling after that and I thought that Plan A was working great. Last week I learned that she was sneaking around with him and I approached her with it. Now she wants separation. <P>I know that's the answer, but it's hard to sit here and not tell her what a huge mistake she's making (her mother and our counseller is doing that already). It's almost like she's so tired of being so nice anymore - like the honor student that gets mixed up with drugs - so this affair is her attempt to be a bad girl. But in the meantime, it's ripping me apart.<P>M.<P>Thanks for writing back. It's good to get support.

mike:<P>Based on the fact that you've only been doing plan A for four weeks, I would encourage you to continue---if you can stick with the consistant behavior. Were you guilty of any of the common "lovebusters" in your marriage (disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts, selfish demands, annoying habits, dishonesty)? If the answer is yes---this is where you need to be spending your time and effort---eliminating those behaviors in a consistant fashion.<P>I would not encourage you two to separate at this time. If she's insisting on it---make sure that you let her know (respectfully and lovingly) that you don't want this, but if she needs to do it, you understand.<P>Plan B is a plan for you, to save your dwindling love for your spouse while the affair continues. The separation removes you from the daily hurt of having to deal first-hand with the affair. It also removes you from the equation---your wife's OM is now going to be responsible for meeting all her needs. This Plan B period is expected to last for 1-2 years: the timeframe is consistant with your love slowly dying until you're ready to file for divorce, as well as being the typical interval in which affairs will end.<P>Having said that, Plan B is a "gamble". When you separate, you want to leave your spouse with the best impression possible---so that after the affair ends, they remember how the Plan A efforts were, and they will have some hope that returning to the marriage is reasonable consideration. So, if you have been guilty of being less that a "stellar" spouse (not that it's "justification" for the affair)---you want to do your best Plan A for as long as you can, to attempt to reverse that impression (and it's your wife's impressions and feelings that count here). When you go to Plan B, you don't want it to be a "reaction" to something your wife has done, because that will appear punative. When you go to Plan B, you need to deliver the "Plan B" letter that clearly states your intentions (there are examples on the website, as well as in <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>Surviving an Affair</A>).<P>To give you my wife's affair as an example, after D-day, she continued to see him. I didn't "approve", but I couldn't (and wouldn't) use selfish demands or shackles to keep her home. I did negotiate certain issues with her to help minimize my pain. About 4 months into my Plan A, I was starting to lose hope (and love), and I prepared to go to Plan B. At this point my wife begged me not to, and ended the affair. However, it restarted a couple weeks later. I was obviously extremely distressed---but Steve Harley and I worked out a plan where I'd stay in Plan A for another month or so before REALLY going to Plan B (and no amount of begging was going to stop it). This way, I dissociated my Plan B action as a retaliation for her restarting the affair. In the final analysis, it was my thoughtful Plan A behavior during extremely difficult times that helped my wife realize after the affair began to self-destruct that reconciliation was possible---and she wasn't going to "lose" with me coming back home.<P>So, get back in there with some more good Plan A. I highly encourage you to give the MB counseling center a call (888-639-1639) and make an appointment with Steve Harley (or Jenn). It was the single best thing I did in dealing with my wife's affair---Steve is a terrific motivator and coach, and he often could help me expect the "unexpected" and have an effective plan in place for dealing with it.

K,<P>I spoke with SH yesterday and, just as you said, I'm still in Plan A. The OM is traveling with my W and it's eating me up. I am, however, taking everything SH tells me very seriously and I’m letting him primarily drive the plan. Here's my situation: She's traveling until Friday. Then she comes home for one night before a different trip that lasts until next Wednesday. I have no idea of her intentions for Friday or Wednesday are but SH and I created a plan. <P>Since we decided that I'm still in Plan A, that I should leave her a couple of voice messages saying that "I wanted to say 'Hi' and see how you were doing. I hope you're well and feel free to call if you'd like to talk." I did the first one this morning. Then he recommended that I should only approach her about her intentions ("What would you like to do?") when she returns next Wednesday.<P>To answer your questions regarding LBs, I'm guilty of four of the five–I've always been honest to my W. I especially made efforts during the first part of Plan A to avoid all LBs and concentrate on her Emotional Needs, but when I found out she was still seeing and speaking to OM, I lost it. In that case I definately made some demands that she obviously didn't like. I even made travel arrangements to be with her this week, not knowing until afterwards that OM would be there. Obviously, she objected to me coming along.<P>My W has already stated that she wanted separation a few days ago, but did not want to talk about the details or about the separation. This is why SH said I should wait until next Wednesday to work out the details. She made it seem like the separation wasn't there to be with him, but to stop hurting me. She also expressed that she felt that she damaged me too much to heal and she can't live like that.<P>I’m a pretty young guy not understanding much about this other than what MB, SH and you have shared with me. My emotions and hopes are up and down every other minute and my impatience makes me want to type quotes from Surviving an Affair into an email to her and say, “Here’s what’s going to happen…I need you back, etc.” Obviously, I’m resisting because SH says educating her will not work and is not an option until she willfully agrees to be helped. The wait and uncertainty is killing me. <P>Thanks K. Your support is appreciated more than my words can express. Someday I’ll help another the same way.<P>

mike:<P>I'm glad that I could help. I'm <B>very glad</B> that you're already working with Steve. Young or not---dealing with an affair is something that no one is "experienced" with, and I knew if I had tried to save my marriage on my own, using my instincts---I'd probably end up divorced.<P>If your emotions are driving you insane, you might want to get to your doctor and get on some antidepressants. I went on Wellbutrin during my wife's affair, and it really did help me keep the emotions (and sharp tongue) in check.

Mike - listen to K and Steve. I did Plan A for 12 months before going to Plan B. Plan A worked for ME. Plan B won't work for my current marriage if I hadn't done a successful Plan A. Get it?<P>WAT

WAT and K,<P>I understand that you two say that patience and consistent non-LB behavior are the keys to a successful Plan A. The depression sure is strong, though. My doctor is helping with that, but I don't think it's helped stabilize my ups and downs yet. <P>Many times when I think about the plan, I feel like it's helpless. I read SAA and find my case almost identical to the Jon & Sue example except we don't have children. Most of the reasons, excuses, lies and feelings until now have been identical to that example. That gives me hope.<P>Your support and encouragement is great. Patience is key and I need to listen to Steve. You guys are helping. I'm going to learn a life-lesson in patience in a couple of months.<P>One last thing, I'm concerned that my W won't talk to me because she's afraid that I'm going to lecture her about how the A will die a natural death (again). I don't have any intentions on discussing this again, but she probably doesn't believe that. Also, she has expressed, a few weeks ago, that she is not secure with the fact that she's hurt me so much and I think her guilt will prevent her from calling back. Is there something I need to do to increase her confidence that the Love Busters are stopping (probably can’t do that with words – just actions) and that I can forgive and forget (perhaps a letter)? I probably answered my own question but it’s good to hear other perspectives. <P>The lack of returned calls from her is scaring me (out of sight, out of mind?). <P>A funny thing: When we were in other counseling a few weeks ago, she told me that she “loves how I work so hard for us.”<BR>

K,<P>I just wanted to say that your post has put my mind at ease and convinced me I'm doing the right thing. D-Day was 2 months ago and my H moved out 2 weeks after that to 'think'. I know he did not move out to be with OW because he is staying with his mom and the OW has been out of town this whole time. His mom said he could only stay there 2 months and his time is almost up. He told me he will be home Aug 6 even though he is not sure what he wants to do. He has hinted that he might be leaning towards divorce, but some of his actions show he's not ready for that. I have wondered if this is when I need to go into Plan B and tell him I don't want him here unless he is totally committed to us. But I also know that the OW will be coming home that same week, and I feel that if I tell him he can't come home he will just run to her. I feel like this is going to be an important time and I'd rather him be here, even if it is so I can keep an eye on him. I know I can't keep him from her, but I don't want to make it easy for him either.<P>I honestly don't know if he will appreciate what he has here at home without going out and being alone first. But I want him to come home for awhile first and get past the OW coming home. Maybe go into Plan B a month later if I don't see any progress. I know I'm dreaming but they say that affairs sometimes fizzle out after discovery. I was also hoping that the 2 months apart could have put him in some sort of withdrawal and maybe pull him away from her. Perhaps this is already happening because he told me that if things don't work out for him and me that he doesn't want to jump into another relationship. HELLLLOOOOO!!! I told him, "Too late, you're already in another relationship." I think he has read enough about affairs and second marriages to realize that things between them probably wouldn't work out. But he still isn't sure he wants to come back to us, because he has been so unhappy for so long.<P>K, how long were you in Plan B before your W wanted to work things out?

Mike - I wrote a Plan A letter to my wife modeled after the Plan B letter in SAA, but without the Plan B punch line.<P>Don't know if it helped me, but it's hard to identify a down side to doing it.<P>If you do this, post your letter here to get feedback before you send it.<P>WAT

K & WAT,<P>I TT my W today. She wants to separate. She told me that she's going to move in with OM. She agreed to pick up half of our expenses (mortgage insurance, etc.) for now. She hasn't asked for D. I'm in an angry mood for a few reasons:<BR>1. I've been asking her to change her job for over a year because she travelled too much. After all this, she just asked me to email her the file with her resume. What the heck is that?<BR>2. Am I crazy in getting completely frustrated about her thinking that living with OM will be good?<P>Need help from you guys to calm me down. She thought I was a little short with her today. She asked if I had her truck fixed and I said, "No the garage couldn't find anything wrong with it. You'll just have to wait until it really breaks." Again, I was in the room with a friend and he said I was not mean at all.<P>I guess I just need to stick to plan A. What to you think? I hit the anger state.<P>Thank you again,<BR>M.

hang in there...I'm on PLan A and it is soooo hard. Feel good you have made it this far. Don't let it all go down the drain now...look at all that you have accomplished.

TT W yesterday. As Steve advised, I told her that I love her and despite what has happened that I want a future with her. She agreed with me that she has a beautiful home and a strong husband to come home to.<P>However, she will not tell me what she wants. All she can say is, "I don't know." She also says that she cannot come home because of her feelings for OM. She still won't make any drastic decisions (no D, just separation). Is this because she knows how confused she is? <P>I spoke with her for about 60 minutes yesterday without one LB. She tried to accuse me of not listening to her once, but after clarification, she understood that I did listen, but I was in the middle of a sentence.<P>I then asked her if she respected my intelligence - she said "yes". Then I said, "I'm just a messenger..." and explained some of the stuff I learned from SAA, SH, and MB.com. Mainly, I explained to her that our situation is very normal and SH has helped many people to reconcile in similar and worse situations. I also explained that although her emotions may not believe it now, but she is experiencing two different types of loves - true established love that took many years to develop and grow and an infatuation that happened overnight. And if she can remove her feelings from the situation, and be just a brain thinking logically which one does she think is longer lasting. <P>Anyway, the net result was that she said that she knew that I still loved her and she was my best friend. She said that she really needs time to think - even though that time is being spent with OM.<P>So guys, how am I doing? It's just a patience game for now.<BR>

<B>I also explained that although her emotions may not believe it now, but she is experiencing two different types of loves - true established love that took many years to develop and grow and an infatuation that happened overnight. </B><BR>Just remember, DO NOT TRY TO "EDUCATE" her! Just tell her what you have learned and what is working for YOU!<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

mikenu: I do not know what to say except good luck. You are the stong one and all of here know it. I feel for you

mike --<P>sorry to hear what you are going through. I am in a similar place now. I cannot offer you much advice, but please know that there are other people out there cheering you on.<P>

Hi Mikenu,<P>Both you and Arthur 1234 replied to my other posts and were really helpful. Our situations seem to be hitting the same stage at the same time. All three of us have posted on here this week about starting plan B. I'm not really here today to give you any advice. I just wanted to say hi, and that I was thinking about you. Hope that whatever you decide to do will be the right thing for you.<P>Will pray about you,<P>Wounded One

What point are you at right now? How are things going. This is the most painful process, isn't it? Hope to hear from you. <P>I just said a prayer for you. <P>I've been posting in "In Recovery" lately. TT you soon.

Hi,<P>I sent a plan B letter on 5 September, however we'd already made arrangements to celebrate our son's 2nd birthday together this weekend so I've agreed to still honour that arrangement. My H, however, will not be staying overnight in the house, especially since that was the thing I was really finding hard. He was staying here in the guest room which for me really rubbed salt into the wounds. I felt instantly better as soon as I started plan B. My post is on the same page as yours at the moment which explains my situation. Basically, plan B has started to make me feel like a person again instead of someone who wasn't sleeping due to wondering whether my H would phone or not.<P>I prayed for you as well last night, <P>Best wishes,<P>Wounded One

Hey I used a friend's four points to cope with the depression and anxiety of the situation:<P>1. Deliberately orient yourself to time and place. Consciously know where you are and what’s going on around you . <BR>2. Use one or more of the five senses. Consciously see, hear, smell, touch and taste. The easiest and most used senses are seeing, hearing and feeling.<BR>3. Be active, don’t drift, daydream or daze off. Activity is any voluntary behavior. Walking, talking to a friend on the phone, watching TV, listening to music, writing or virtually any other behavior that you decide to do is an activity. The key is to do the activity consciously and deliberately. If you find yourself drifting in front of the TV or anywhere else, break it with activity. Get up and get a drink of water or call a friend, anything.<BR>4. Only think or have on your mind what is hitting your senses. In other words, if you can’t see, hear, smell, touch or taste it, it doesn’t exist. Don’t think it, it will probably be negative and cause symptoms. What should be on your mind is what’s happening right now, at this moment, in front of you, in the present.<P>This helps me even in my sleep. I hope it helps.<P>My wife came home two weeks ago despite the fact that nothing went wrong with that "Other" relationship saying she wanted to work things out with me. I think I'm back in Plan A since I think contact hasn't stopped. I found a couple of messages a few day ago from OM, then stopped looking and continued the Plan A stuff. I'm still learning so much. I feel like such a novice with not only marriage but also interacting with people. It frustrating how, regardless of success, friendship, family, love for God, etc. and how clueless I feel about this relationship stuff. Every day I learn something new and realize how I royally screwed up. I think I can take more of the one-sided EN meeting more than I can take beating myself over the head for making it so easy for this to happen.<P>God be with you.<P>MikeNu