I'm not sure I am posting this in the right place. I'm new to posting. I didn't just find out, but I'm just now letting the whole thing cave in on me. I found out last March that my husband was spending almost the whole day online chatting to different women (only women). I was busy going through an intensive, year long, work/school program that kept me gone from the house from dawn to late night, and he was out of a job. In the few months he was out of a job he started finding women online to fill up his hours. He spoke with at least three of them on the phone, and one was almost every day for two months, and only stopped because I found out I'm sure. I think they may have met - there were some e-mails I discovered later planning a meeting - but he denies that vehemently.<P>I was devastated, but I didn't have the luxury of falling completely apart. I had many papers to write, exams to take. Luckily I found out right before a week long break from my school endeavors, and I found marriage builders online - I printed out things for us to work together on. He seemed to really want to rebuild with me. Not at first perhaps, I remember his initial anger that I'd found out - all the lying and covering up he did. The promises he broke over and over all the way through May. He only admitted what I found out on my own or what women told me I'd confront online. <P>In fact it wasn't until the week of my graduation from the grueling program I did succeed in finishing that he said he "finally got it" and realized that what he was doing wasn't a good thing for our marriage. He claims to have felt that before that it was something he stubbornly would not stop because it was "all a game," "a fantasy world" and he figured if he could keep me from knowing it would be okay to continue. <BR> <BR>The only time he was completely honest (I think) was the night I read the phone bill, and confronted that one most important girl online. (I call her a girl because I am 44 and she is 29). She confessed all to me, so he couldn't lie anymore. (I sensed he felt great betrayal from her.) He claims he never said this now - denies ever having uttered it - which makes me feel crazy sometimes - but he actually said he wasn't sure he loved me anymore that night. I remember I was so afraid of scaring him away from being honest that I held back all the tears and sat very still to listen. <P>There was a time I believed every word he said. Those days ended four years ago - the first time he started doing this. We went to marriage counseling about it back then, and I thought it would never happen again. I felt it was a mid-life crises occurrence, and that he'd been having self esteem problems that I exacerbated by "moving up" while he didn't - by expecting him to be more productive as a father and husband in the home. In other words I blamed myself for adding to his low self-esteem and felt that I'd tried hard to make him feel loved for who he is and not demand more than he's capable of these past four years.<P>Now I find myself unable to "move on." He says it's all in the past why do I still need to know anything more. I wonder myself. Money ties our hands as far as getting much needed counseling. I feel so alone. I have a good friend, but I want her to think everything's fine now. He's stopped. (He can't do anything, I'm home all the time this summer waiting for a new job to start this Fall.) I want our friends and family to keep thinking of him the same old wonderful way. He just doesn't seem like the type of guy who would do anything like this!<P>I can't feel close. I feel like I'm clinging to a brick wall. I need him to tell me why it happened, how it happened ... I can't help feeling like it would all still be going on if I hadn't found out - if I hadn't been home all summer ....<P>We worked on our emotional needs questionnaires, and he was so into it 0- but then simply never did any of things he says he understood would help rebuild. <P>I feel that when I am out of his sight I am out of his mind. <P>On Valentine's Day I received no card, no flowers. We met for lunch because by some lucky chance there was a half day for me that day. I found out by the phone bill later that our lunch date was sandwiched in by phone calls to the OW. He insists that means nothing. That calling her "my baby" in e-mail meant nothing.<P>All these women especially her were going through emotional upheavals, and he "was there" for them.<P>He is not often there for me emotionally. In fact I feel that if I ask for anything I'm bugging him. His online self was perfect. With me, he's often grouchy and short tempered.<P>Okay- I've made this way too long. And now I feel like a big whiner to boot. He tells me tat if I didn't whine he'd want to give to me. But I hang on so long waiting for him to remember my emotional needs on his own. If I ask - or tell - no matter how calmly, or openly, I am up for rejection and anger.<P>Now I feel like signing this: "Hurt and Confused in California"<P>------------------<BR>Jena<BR>If you don't stand for <BR>something, you'll fall for <BR>anything

Wow!!! that is all about I have to say. I'm 23 and been with h for 5 yrs and for the last 6 months hes been doing the same almost excatly the same, but without the phone call i think! right know im doing the EN but i dont think he would want to do it sounds silly to him. I hope you were able to get everything strait with your husband and my wishes are with you. if you would like some more insight you can e-mail me at drgnstrx@hotmail.com maybe i can help in some way!<P>Karen P.<BR>

hey ladies, don't feel alone. I'm in the same boat with you both. Except my H actually met some of these people and finally did have a affair. It wasn't with someone he met online, but I feel like the two years online before that didn't help one bit. We finally put CyperPatrol on our computer and blocked all chat rooms and private e-mail sites, but I recently took it off. I'm trying Plan A and he said I was smothering him. Found out today, he started right back up once the CyperPatrol was taken off the computer. I have absolutely no advice to offer on this one--just didn't want you to think you were all alone.

It's good to not so feel alone ~ thanks for your responses. <P>After reading more about what Plan A is all about, I guess I could say that this time my husband and I finally seem to be beginning it. He threw out his internet account and shares my account only when necessary to do online banking and browsing to find information ... and only when I'm around. That's a good beginning, right?<P>I think what I really need to know is, how can I ever stop wondering what more I don't know? He says he's told me all there ever was, but bit by bit, if I ask at the "right" moments, and in the "right" way, (pretending not to care anymore) he has let me know more and more. Like the fact that he cybered with some of the women. For the longest time he was adamant about never having done that at all. Now he admits that he did, but only because he enjoyed telling OW what he thought they needed to hear. I understand it was all a game to him. What I can't get is why he needed to play it!<P>When someone thinks for months and months that they are not lying to you because they haven't told you everything ... when someone promises to stop something because it hurts you and then simply keeps on doing it as long as they don't get caught ... how am I supposed to suddenly just trust him? That's what he wants! My complete trust and faith after all that! Without doing anything that shows remorse or care.<P>I know what I feel I need in order to rebuild trust, but he doesn't begin to try. He forgets all about it, and then wonders why I still try to discuss it. <P>I still need to know how he could say certain things to OW other than myself that I read him to say - certain things I've been told he said. Things a man only says to a woman he loves and cares about deeply ... I feel like I'm looking at the tip of this ice berg that I know would hurt - even kill me emotionally for a while - to see all of ... and yet I know I will never let it go or truly be able to live happily with him again until he is completely open, doesn't side step my questions and simply tells all, so I can get through the pain and move onward.<P>If he's really stopped, I need to hear why he has stopped. I need to hear why he wants to be married to me still and what changed his mind about fooling around online. <P>Right now it still feels like he'd probably get right back to it as soon as he could.<P>I want a friend in him. Right now I feel like I'm some enemy to be dealt with, placated, and I think that hurts much more than anything he's done that was unfaithful. How can we ever be close if he's holding back? <P>He has said many times that he doesn't tell me everything because he doesn't want to hurt me, and that I'm being ridiculous to want to know because it never mattered to begin with! That "elbow story" in the latest newsletter kind of reminded me of the pain he has caused me. He has actually told me I shouldn't be hurting because he never meant to cause any pain. I'll copy and paste that story below for anyone who missed it.<P>Anyway, thanks for listening.<P>Jena<P><<Ed and Nancy were really enjoying themselves at the Wilson's party. <BR>They had not been out together in weeks because of how busy they <BR>have been. They even were able to have the babysitter they most <BR>trusted to watch the kids. Things were going very well.<P>As Ed and Nancy stood together talking, Ed felt a tap on his shoulder <BR>and turned around to see who it was. As he turned, he felt his <BR>elbow hit something.<P>"OUCH!" someone yelled.<P>He turned around to look at what the commotion was and noticed Nancy <BR>holding her nose with a look of surprise on her face.<P>"Why did you do that?" she questioned Ed.<P>"Do what?" As he looked closer at her nose, it began bleeding. <BR>"Oh, my goodness, honey. How did that happen?" he asked.<P>"How did that happen!? You elbowed me in the nose is what happened!" <BR>she said with a subdued yet angry voice.<P>Ed looked closer at her nose to see if it was broken. Meanwhile, a <BR>friend brought a damp rag for the blood.<P>"Look honey, I don't understand why it should hurt so much. In <BR>fact, I'm not sure why it should hurt at all." Ed stated.<P>A shocked look came over Nancy's face. "What!?"<P>"Listen, you know it was an accident, don't you? Of course you do. <BR>You know I would never do this intentionally." he said with a Perry <BR>Mason like attitude. "So, if I had no intention of hurting my <BR>beloved wife and if you accept the fact that this was just an <BR>accident, then the pain should go away and everything should be fine <BR>again. See?" Ed said. He then stepped back with a strangely <BR>confident smile on his face.<P>"Now," he continued, "this is a rare night for us to get out. <BR>Let's not spoil the occasion. Besides, it's in the past."<P>-------------<P>Tempted to hit him back? Of course hitting is not the answer. <BR>However, you can clearly see that Ed lacks the ability to understand <BR>the true nature of what happened and what he should do about it. <BR>Amazingly, this type of logic is used all too often between couples. <BR>Not with physical pain, but with emotional pain.<P>How many times have you heard your spouse, or you for that matter, <BR>say "Oh, you know that's not what I meant to say." or "No. You just <BR>heard me wrong." There are countless variations on this theme, but <BR>the message is the same: If pain is caused unintentionally, then <BR>the pain should not exist.<P>What Ed should have done was to acknowledge that it was his elbow <BR>that caused the pain, demonstrate care by attending to the wound, <BR>and, even though she knows that he wouldn't do such a thing <BR>intentionally, he still needs to apologize for the pain he caused. <BR>Ideally, he would also let her know what he is going to do <BR>differently in the future in order to prevent this from happening <BR>again (future protection).<P>Sounds like overkill? Hmm... If you think so, then your Taker <BR>must be reading this.>><P>

<<right know im doing the EN but i dont think he would want to do it sounds silly to him.>><P>Hey Karen I wanted to respond to this especially. ~<BR>If you can somehow entice your H to spend some time with you filling out the ENs it would be great. The day my H and I spent doing it was a wonderful, fun afternoon for me. An oasis in the emotional desert that was last spring. He's usually Mr. I-don't-need-anything, and finally he was able to express a few things that were important to him. I felt so gratified. Usually I am frustrated by never knowing what it is I can do to make things better (other than not bring up what he doesn't want to discuss-LOL) How can you give to someone who doesn't even know what it is he wants? The EN helped him articulate things that are important to him.<P>------------------<BR>Jena<BR>If you don't stand for <BR>something, you'll fall for <BR>anything

Jenna,<P>My H too wants me to trust him and act like nothing has happened although I have caught him in many lies over 20 years and several in the past month. Mine won't tell me anything that has happened; just denies everything, and I feel too like what I've discovered is just tip of iceberg.<P>I made him read the Brutal Honesty articles from this website, but he still won't budge. Have tried not talking at all; asking questions nicely; demanding to know; nothing has worked. <P>I really don't know how we can get all the answers without their cooperation. We're starting counseling this week, if he doesn't back out, and I'm hoping somehow to get the information I need to decide what should happen.<P>If it gives you any comfort, I've dealt with all this betrayal before, and have come to trust again. It does take cooperation on the WS's part. <P>I am tired of being a detective at this point. There are so many clues and no answers.<P>We'll make it through this...<P>Sad1

Dear Sad1<P>I really hear you when you say you're tired of being a detective. I want to let all this go too ... especially because things seemed better in our marriage lately ... however- I did a little detective work - couldn't help myself ... and discovered something I truthfully hoped I would not discover. In fact I came here to post about it and decided to see if anyone else had said anything more here, on this older post, first.<P>Was your H's betrayal online also? <P>I'm tired of detective work too, but I'm also tired of living a lie if that's what I'm living!<P>Jena ... <p>[This message has been edited by Jena (edited August 15, 2001).]