I've just started plan B. PLan a seemed to work well and it meant there was a more peaceful atmosphere at home when my H was at home but I knew he was still seeing the OW. You see, the problem is that sinve November 1997, he has worked away Monday to Friday and therefore we have only been able to function like a married couple at weekends. I have been faithful to him all that time, but about July 2000 he started a n EA which turned into a PA. Although plan a is meant to be about showing him how I can meet his ENs, I have, during plan A and also since November 1997, only been able to meet them at weekends. Thats why the affair happened. He couldn't be with me Mon to Fri, so he turned to someone else. He knew that this arrangement was not an ideal basis on which to have a successful marriage, but he could only see the opportunities it meant for him at work in terms of lots of money and promotions.<P>PLan A did show him that I could meet his ENs, but while ever he continues with this job, then our marriage will always be one where ENs can only be met at weekends.<P>The reason I think he won't even notice the effects of plan B is that he's so used to not seeing me and the kids all week anyway amd spending Mon to Fri in the arms of another woman, that he won't really miss us. It will now mean that he can see her on Saturday and Sunday as well. She does the same job as him and has no kids.<P>I actually feel better since I've started plan B. During plan A, I tore myself to pieces every evening wondering whether he would phone or not. He usually didn't which then meant I couldn't sleep that night and then couldn't eat the next day. Now that I've started plan B, I have slept really well every night and have started being able to eat without gagging on my food. I feel a lot happier and feel that I'm starting to get back my self respect.<P>For me, I know that plan B was the right decision. Even if he doesn't come back and choose me over her, I feel a much better person for trying the plan A because I know that the affair wasn't my fault. It may not have happened if he had a different job. But I couldn't force him to change careers could I. Only he can come to that decision. If the combination of his career and this OW actually make him happy, then I'll have to give in gracefully. If plan B helps him to realise tha I meanh more to him after all then I'll find out I suppose. Meanwhile, I'll keep reading MB to check how others are doing.<P>Wounded One

Hi WO,<P>We're in similar situations, except that my husband is home only one week every 3 months, and he hasn't had a PA as far as I know. I do know that he's probably got an EA with a young woman, I suspect his career and this beautiful girl have gone right to his head.<P>Like you, I'm thinking that the Plan B I started yesterday will not make him miss me. He'll just be able to concentrate on his 'friend' now, not worrying about trying to hide his friendship from me any longer. Since meeting this girl he's been withdrawing from me anyway, so he's not been contacting me much. In fact, I think he's feeling very relieved that it's me asking for no contact except via email, he can be the good guy with the jealous, untrusting wife. <P>But, I am doing plan B for me. I know exactly what you're feeling, the relief at not waiting for his phone call. Last night I actually felt a tiny bit of hope, it's such a pressure when you don't know if he'll call, hearing that voice you love so much but now is so distant and uncaring. <P>Who knows what the outcome of all this will be. Maybe he will now feel free to have a PA. But, I cannot control him or his feelings, only my own.<P>I'll pray it works out for you WO, <P>SAU

Wounded One - I'm sorry to hear that you had to do this. It sounds like plan A went as far as it could.<P>Did your plan B letter say that a job change is a condition of his coming back? He should be willing to do this if he is serious about the marriage. Even though I ended up as a BS, I had made several career-limiting decisions trying to facilitate my wife's ENs for more help at home, family time, and residence near friends and relatives.<P>If he is able to spend weekends with OW now, then a couple of possibilities might bring him back. One is that the affair burns out, but then in these circumstances, it's not hard for him to start another one if he wants to. Another is that he starts missing the kids. What kind of access will he have to your kids under plan B? It's touchy.<P>I imagine this is hard, knowing that the marriage might be over. Is there some feeling of relief, though, after taking this step?<P>Good luck,<P>Tom

Tom,<P>I didn't state in the plan B letter that he had to change careers but I suspect that he knows he will have to change careers anyway for things to work out between us which is another reason he has carried on with the affair. I know for certain that he would never consider giving up his career and think that he therefore thinks "since I'm not prepared to give up this work , I know my marriage won't work out anyway, so I may as well continue the affair anyway"<P>This is how it seems to me. When I first found out about the affair, he said he felt trapped because he felt as though he had to choose between his work and me. I'm working on the assumption that this is still how he feels.<P>In some ways, I feel that if he is to carry on with this lifestyle of choosing work before me, then I don't want him anyway. This does however make me feel guilty for thinking this. I have strong Christian beliefs and don't believe in ditching in our marriage just because he works away. But, while ever he works away he will continue the affair anyway, and even if he didn't our time together would be less than our time apart.<P>I'm not sure about his acces to the kids. Plan B states that you shouldn't see the WS at all, however it is my youngest son's birthday this weekend and my H is expecting to come to the house for that. I can't stop him seeing his son on his birthday can I?<P>Any suggestions on how I should handle him seeing the kids? <BR>Should I just make sure that he knows the ultimatum still stands while otherwise being civil to him?<P>Wounded One

Wounded One,<P>I guess it's almost the weekend, over there. My only suggestions would be first, your husband do something else separate with your son on his birthday. That way you don't deny him access (which you can't), but you're not having contact with your husband either.<P>Second, if he comes to your house for the birthday celebration, make sure there are other friends and relatives there the whole time. That way, he still has access but you are not interacting privately. Just make sure he understands this exception was made only because of your son's birthday, combined with short notice. For other special occasions, he should know to make separate arrangements.<P>I agree with your feelings that your husband must make a choice on what's most important. I have made that choice, but my wife seems to act as if I made a different choice, in spite of all the evidence. She doesn't seem to understand why I'm still fighting.<P>I spoke with Steve Harley this morning, and he advised that it's time to explore options for a legal separation. Not to go through with it right away, but to be ready for plan B.<P>- Tom

Tom, or anyone else who can answer,<P>I'm thinking of making our separation official. What is the difference between just saying that you have split up and obviously living in separate houses and an actual "Legal Separation"? What does legal separation actually involve, apart from just meaning that you have told the solicitor about it?<P>Wounded One

It depends on the jurisdiction. I found out that Pennsylvania does not have a legal separation process, other than divorce. <P>There is a 2-year waiting period in Pennsylvania, if one party desires a no-fault divorce and the other does not consent. That rule could result in the first party wanting to prove they've been physically separated for 2 years or longer.<P>Other states and countries would be different.<P>- Tom

Plan B does seem to be working.<P>My H phoned on Tuesday and confessed that he wasn't happy and didn't want a future where he only had access to the kids rather than being with them as a parent at home. He also said that when he came home for our son's birthday, it was good to be at home and he wasn't here just to see the kids. I've told him that he has to either come back properly or not at all and that if he comes back then all contact with OW must cease PERMANENTLY. He said that he realised that. I don't however know whether he has actually gone ahead and called it off with her or whether he was just telling me that this is what he plans to do. As we all know, planning to do something, and actually doing it are two very different things where WS are concerned.<P>What should I do now? Should I carry on with plan B until he actually says "It is over" and "I'm back for good and promise to never contact her again" ??<P>That sounds right doesn't it?<P>Anyway, the fact that I only started plan B a couple of weeks ago and he's already thinking about giving her the elbow means that it must be starting to work. I guess I must insist that he doesn't contact me again until it is definitely over between them.<BR>

Dear Wounded One - that's great, at least it's making him think. I would stick it out with plan B until he makes a final decision.<P>How are you going to tell that he's having no more contact with OW? How is the recovery process going to work? How is it going to last? Unless he changes jobs.<P>Believe me, I know that professional goals are important, but with his behavior, he's forfeited the right to full career freedom. So now he has to choose between career and marriage; that's a better way to put it.<P>- Tom

Hi Tom,<P>I've been trying to reply to what you said above all week but the MB sight was having some work done on it. I forgot to say, in the above mentioned telephone conversation, he did say that he'd asked those in charge at work that after he finishes his current assignment in a few weeks that he no longer be sent on jobs which meen being away from home all the time...wonder whether his employer will listen though? The thing I have the problem with is that he says he must arrange to see her first so he can tell her face to face that its over and she isn't to contact him again in any way. Why does he have to arrange to meet her to end it. Why can't he write to her or do it over the phone? I haven't ended a relationship since I was at school....why do people feel they must do it face to face? He says he can't get in touch with her at the moment and doesn't know where she's working (they both travel around a lot). Is he just stalling and playing for time? Funny how he's phoned her every day for six months and now when he wants to end the affair, he cannot get her to answer her phone! So unless its because she's decided to go back to her husband, I wonder whether he's still lying. Sounded as though he meant it this time.....watch this space. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

Wounded One - funny I'm on the road myself for about 10 days. The employers I've had would make adjustments if I said I had to travel less, or spend more time at home. <P>Your H is probably a valued employee, doing all these projects away from home. If so, they would make some changes in his load. It could take some time, while they shuffle assignments and get him involved in possibly training others.<P>I don't know about the OW breakup. It sounds like he's at least thinking, and that's good.<P>- Tom

Just passing through and noticed your thread. I am not sure my comments will be much help. You said something that i think you need to seriously rethink:<P>"I feel a much better person for trying the plan A because I know that the affair wasn't my fault."<P>and:<P>"Although plan a is meant to be about showing him how I can meet his ENs, I have, during plan A and also since November 1997, only been able to meet them at weekends. Thats why the affair happened." <P>Ok, first thing, affairs happen because people aren't meeting each others needs. You think the affair wasn't your fault? I can't imagine having an affair if my H was meeting my needs. He was not... whether i had him for weekends only, or all year long, he was not meeting my needs. You can meet needs by phone, by email, etc. You never mention when your H affair began? You think it began because he was away working? I think that just gave him the opportunity to escape.... I don't know why he felt he needed to get his needs met my OW, but he knows why? i know exactly what my H didn't provide for me....My H is away working all the time. That was not my problem. Now that i am in recovery, and i am the WS, my H still travels. The difference is that I am now working on meeting his needs and recognizing when he meets mine. We spent 16 years LB'g so much that we destroyed our romantic love and it will take much time to restore that. i don't know how long you've been married either, but bad habits begin very early in a marraige and continue til something busts.....we started as HS sweethearts in '75 and married in '83, so these habits began in HS... <P>I believe you need to definately work on yourself, as i hope all BS and WS will, because the problem has to do with each of us. Low self esteem was one of my big problems and that is changing too. You can read more about my story if you'd like on other threads. <P>God bless you and continue working on changing YOU from the inside out. Plan B may be exactly what you needed. Only god knows....

Thanks for your replies,<P>You say above that A must have happened because I wasn't meeting his needs. Not only did he work away, but we had just had a baby when the A started, so, when he phoned there was usually a baby crying in the background. Or, whenever my H wanted to talk to me at home there was always a baby needing my attention. I usually asked him to phone later or I would phone him when our baby had gone to sleep, but by then he has usually gone out to eat with colleagues and said he couldn't talk bacause he was in the restaurant. It was a cas of if I could,'t talk at the exact time he phoned, then that was it. He could only either phone at about 6pm or at about midnight. He used to get really cross that our baby was crying and stopping us from talking, he then started going and talking to her instead. The EN I wasn't filling , was that I wasn't listeneing to him when he wanted to tell me about his stressful day at work. He phoned at a different time every day, so I couldn't even predict when he would call. Eg, just when I started to predict that he would call at 6pm, he would then decide to call at 7pm instead so I had no chance of changing my routine at home to fit in. <P>Our baby is now two years old, and there fore has a much more established routine. He is always asleep by 7.30 pm, so now if my H calls we can always talk without interruptions. So ,yes, you are right that I wasn't meeting his ENs, but it was because he wouldn't let me! Now that he's out of the fog, I have asked him what his most important ENs are. He says I always filled his ENs apart from not listening to him carefully enough. I can easily put that one right, although it probably isn't a good idea to have any more children while ever he still works away. The birth of our baby came as a big shock to my H, he felt as though he was letting us down by being away all the time, lost his self esteem, then when he didn't get the promotion at work which he wanted, he tried to tell me all about it but phoned at a really bad time when I was trying to cook a meal and calm down our baby. He decided to talk to OW instead...PA started leading to PA. Turned to someone who did the same job and knew what he was going through and she also had no kids!<P>Anyway, I will keep trying to work on his ENs to make sure that this never happens again!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gardenia:<BR><STRONG>Just passing through and noticed your thread. I am not sure my comments will be much help. You said something that i think you need to seriously rethink:<P>"I feel a much better person for trying the plan A because I know that the affair wasn't my fault."<P>and:<P>"Although plan a is meant to be about showing him how I can meet his ENs, I have, during plan A and also since November 1997, only been able to meet them at weekends. Thats why the affair happened." <P>Ok, first thing, affairs happen because people aren't meeting each others needs. You think the affair wasn't your fault?</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Absolutely the affair is NOT the fault of the betrayed spouse. It is SOLELY on the shoulders of the wayward spouse. Period!<P>The ONLY reason the ws has an affair is because they do NOT guard themselves against getting in a situation where an affair can happen, ie. getting too close to someone of the opposite sex.

Thanks Chris. Since I posted my most recent message on this thread, my H has confirmed that he has ended the affair and told her to never contact him again. Appapently, he said she didn't take the news well but that's her problem, she shouldn't have messed around with someone else's husband should she?<P>Anyway, I asked for some advice a few days ago from the people in the recovery section of MB so I'm going to go back to the thread I started there and ask them to help me make sure this NEVER happens again.<P>Thanks for your support, hope we stay in recovery and hope I don't have to re do plan A or B! His behaviour towards me, both verbal and non verbal seem promising. Just hope she stays away! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Absolutely the affair is NOT the fault of the betrayed spouse. It is SOLELY on the shoulders of the wayward spouse. Period!<P>___________________________________________<P>I totally agree with Chris's statement and I take full responsibility for my actions. I asked the question you think the affair wasn't your fault? to question why you thought the affair happened then? YOU AREN NOT TO BLAME...I think FAULT is a bad choice of words here, because it indicates blame and blame puts people on the defensive. If we say things aren't our faults, we tend to desire change much less. Rather, taking responsiblity for what part we do play in the WS's choices is more important i think. All that i have learned in MB, when people are meeting each others needs, there is little to no? chance for an A. <BR>---------------------------------------------The ONLY reason the ws has an affair is because they do NOT guard themselves against getting in a situation where an affair can happen, ie. getting too close to someone of the opposite sex. <BR>--------------------------------------------<BR>I am beginning to realize that we WILL NOT put ourselves in those positions when our needs are met at home, but, OUR VALUE systems are tested radically during needy times. this is something i'm dealing with. so you can have no needs being met at home and this doesn't mean you will have an Affair. I know lots of women who would never put themselves in that position no matter how much their needs are not met at home. It's such a dillema on who will actually have the A in life and who won't. In the meantime, i have learned that to stay in a healthy marriage we must both be responsible.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>In the meantime, i have learned that to stay in a healthy marriage we must both be responsible. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>EXACTLY! Perfect.

Hi Gardenia,<P>Also, I wasn't implying that I shouldn't work on meeting his ENs when I said the affair "wasn't my fault" I think we both used the worng choice of words and got our wires crossed. What I meant was, the fact that the birth of our baby stopped us from being able to talk as much coinciding , unfortunately with his bad patch at work was really an unlucky piece of timimg which meant I was less able to meet his ENs at a time when he really needed me. Also, just at that moment, a woman who was having trouble with her H and wanted an excuse to leave him, started working with my H and they both started talking etc. etc.....<P>I didn't want to imply that I wasn't going to work on meeting his ENs anyway I am really working hard to find out exactly what he needs in a relationship to make him STAY and will work on this FOREVER! What I meant about the affair, was that he had a job whivh meant he was in the company of other women more than he saw me. Usually he would have risisted the temptation, but the above mentioned factors meant that he gave in and had an affair.<P>He did end it with OW on Sunday. The problem we have now is that this job he's doing which means he spends Mon to Fri in another city cannot end before 31 December. I am expecting withdrawal syptoms from him over the next few weeks and am worried that because he's still away in the week that he'll give in again and a phone her.<P>He has very bad willpower. He has tried to give up smoking loads of times and then failed. I just hope I can make home so good that one day he spends all week thinking of me and not her!<P> [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

Well......I've been posting on recovery for the last three weeks and he really seemed to be doing and saying all the right things to let me think he was "back" and wanted to build a future with me and the kids.<p>Sunday morning (28th October) I fould a hotel bill for last Tuesday to Thursday night. It was for the hotel he usually stays in when he works away...but....it was a room for TWO people and was in joint names.....those of my H and OW [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I was really cross...if during plan A I had discovered this, I would have not said anything, but to let him come back after plan A and plan B, then get three weeks into what I thought was "recovery" and find this was the last straw.<p>I threw him out straight away. He actually looked scared of me and ended up leaving some of his stuff in his rush to get out of the house...his watch and the book he was part way through reading are still where he left them.<p>Did I do the right thing? Now, 1 1/2 days later, although still angry and hurt, I wonder whether I should have just gone back to plan A? Maybe, she would have got fed up with being with someone who wouldn't leave his wife for her, but now I've pushed them together. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Do you think he'll even feel upset that I threw him out, or do you think they'll be celebrating? :<p>( Why do they bother saying that they have chosen to come back and give the marriage another try if it isn't what they really want? Did he just hope that he could have both again and me not find out?<p>Wounded One (Although even more wounded now) [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Dear Wounded One - Wow, I'm sorry to hear that. It's not like this happened during plan A, though. You were right to make him leave. Probably you LBed by plan A standards, but again, this is different.<p>Assuming you want to go forward, I would send him another plan B letter, as calm in tone as you can make it. But he can't come back until he changes jobs. It's pretty obvious that he thought he could continue to have it both ways.<p>Don't worry about pushing them together. They've not had a full-time relationship and if they tried, problems might arise. It's possible he will just maintain part-time relationships, as he's been doing. And work the rest of the time. Or maybe find someone else. It could take some time.<p>I would be more hard-nosed about the plan B terms this time, so that he will know what he's giving up.<p>Good luck,<p>Tom